Crown Glass Mofits? Slap in the Face to the Dedicated Crafters Who Actually Earned Them

Ashtaris · September 2015

OP, you are either a bit naive, or haven't been playing this game very long. I knew the Glass Armor motif was bound for the Crown store the day they revealed what was required to obtain the fragments and Malachite stones. And just be prepared for the day the Xvikyn motif is offered on the store as well.

BuggeX · September 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

Saw it coming when they put in that ridiculous double RNG grind for it.
Just didn't expect it This soon.

true,

i expect first xiv to be in the store....

Ashtaris wrote: »

OP, you are either a bit naive, or haven't been playing this game very long. I knew the Glass Armor motif was bound for the Crown store the day they revealed what was required to obtain the fragments and Malachite stones. And just be prepared for the day the Xvikyn motif is offered on the store as well.

well the Price for xiv dropped hard, another mounth and you can buy it like dwemer

Brrrofski · September 2015

I find it crazy that an armour style if twice the price of DLC...

Can't just be me?

Hyperplexed · September 2015

well, no surprise for me, just think it was a bit too soon... also... about the xivkyn in the store. I didnt watched the episode, but someone told me that in an ESO Live broadcast, it was said that the Xivkyn motif will not go in the store, and it actually makes some sense: Xivkyn can only drop for those who have access to IC (or for others if they want to buy it from other players ofc)

Anyway, a bit disappointed ofc, but at least I have the achievement completed before the the Glass Motif hit the store, and that is ofc the real achievement. Pay 2 Achieve, how rewarding is that? xD

daemonios · September 2015

JWT wrote: »

not really~ the 500k per page was utter [snip] : / I for one thank them for putting it up this early, [snip]

[snip]

You DO realise that the in-game price was due to the rarity of the thing, right? Something over which ZOS have full control? And you're thanking them for letting you grab it for the equivalent of over 4 months' subscription in real money?

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Kavatchian · September 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

I know I am not alone on this. As a crafter I spent alot of time and work trying to get and learn these Glass mofits just so my dedication would be worth something. So I could standout as well as anyone i made armor for in my guild. I never thought this style would be in the crown store as it was one of the rare things to aim for in the game and be proud of. But now I will just be looked at like eveyone else who pulled out their credit card and took the non dedication easy route.
One more reason why I cant wait for Camelot Unchained because the actual CRAFTER CLASS will be very important and needed and rewarding and there will be no game store for real money to buy things like this!

The bundle is practically $40 bucks... I mean you are forced to buy the 5500 crowns option which is $39.99. If you want to fork out that kind of cash for something that looks pretty, and serves no purpose.... go ahead. Not hurting anyone.

newtinmpls · September 2015

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

(getting the glass motifs) took alot of dediction and time. Time that I would have much rather spent doing other things like AVA.

I would encourage anyone to learn a lesson from this. Do what you enjoy. if it isn't enjoyable - then don't do it.

As for anyone being shocked at a motif in the store... have you not looked at the crown store? <shakes head>

Genomic · September 2015

Like it or not, with the change in payment model ZOS is now in the business of whale hunting. With B2P it's logically the means for them to make a profit.

Iluvrien · September 2015

Genomic wrote: »

Like it or not, with the change in payment model ZOS is now in the business of whale hunting. With B2P it's logically the means for them to make a profit.

How about actually producing enticing and enjoyable content instead?

newtinmpls · September 2015

Genomic wrote: »

Like it or not, with the change in payment model ZOS is now in the business of whale hunting. With B2P it's logically the means for them to make a profit.

Iluvrien wrote: »

How about actually producing enticing and enjoyable content instead?

They have to be able to do the one in order to do the other. So the more expensive the crown store items are, and the more people buy them, the happier I will be.

evoga · September 2015

If champion points are as people always post on this form so worth the time grinding then why don't they sell those too?

One dollar for every champion point

newtinmpls · September 2015

evoga wrote: »

If champion points are as people always post on this form so worth the time grinding then why don't they sell those too?

One dollar for every champion point

I think that they are trying to avoid overt pay to win-ness.

Vegaroth · September 2015

we already knew than after the removing of P2P and the opening of the crown shop all the new content will orbitate around the shop and around the making more easy invest real money than invest time in the game.... [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Iluvrien · September 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Like it or not, with the change in payment model ZOS is now in the business of whale hunting. With B2P it's logically the means for them to make a profit.

Iluvrien wrote: »

How about actually producing enticing and enjoyable content instead?

They have to be able to do the one in order to do the other. So the more expensive the crown store items are, and the more people buy them, the happier I will be.

No. I suspect that they don't. If the produce high quality content then people will buy it. That will bankroll them to produce more high quality content. If it doesn't then sprinkle in a little mount/costume action. What we don't need is systematic nerfs and artificial grinds to drive sales of something that shouldn't be in the crown store in the first place.

newtinmpls · September 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

If the produce high quality content then people will buy it. That will bankroll them to produce more high quality content. If it doesn't then sprinkle in a little mount/costume action. What we don't need is systematic nerfs and artificial grinds to drive sales of something that shouldn't be in the crown store in the first place.

Well we saw how well that worked with the sub model. That should have bankrolled much quality. Oh wait, it didn't.

I'd rather play and have fun. Which I do.

I don't grind, I don't spaz, I don't reflexively buy every new weird thing the crown store offers. I do still sub, so if/when I see something I want, I generally have the crowns to get it.

When others buy cosmetic/expensive items - I cheer. More longevity for the game, more fun for me.

If you grind, it's because you chose to. Deal with your choices.

andreasv · September 2015

Ackwalan wrote: »

Adding the glass motif to the crown store three weeks after the release of the DLC, is garbage ...

I completely share this view. At least let players try to get that stuff in game for a few months before offering it in the crown store. I will carry on playing the actual game before going the credit card route.

Iluvrien · September 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

If the produce high quality content then people will buy it. That will bankroll them to produce more high quality content. If it doesn't then sprinkle in a little mount/costume action. What we don't need is systematic nerfs and artificial grinds to drive sales of something that shouldn't be in the crown store in the first place.

Well we saw how well that worked with the sub model. That should have bankrolled much quality. Oh wait, it didn't.

I'd rather play and have fun. Which I do.

I don't grind, I don't spaz, I don't reflexively buy every new weird thing the crown store offers. I do still sub, so if/when I see something I want, I generally have the crowns to get it.

When others buy cosmetic/expensive items - I cheer. More longevity for the game, more fun for me.

If you grind, it's because you chose to. Deal with your choices.

Interesting idea. Alright then, do feel free to tell me how to remain a part of the crafting economy without buying the motif from the crown store or grinding. No, really. I am interesting in how you think this can be done because, you see, it isn't my choice that I have to deal with, it is ZOS's choice. Their choice to extend the time to get a motif beyond even that experienced during the hunt for Dwemer chapters. Their choice has changed the dynamics of the crafting economy.

So, please, tell me how I circumvent the system so as to carry on doing what I enjoy doing (crafting for others) without having to pay attention to the fundamental change in approach that ZOS has imposed.

I'm waiting.

asteldian · September 2015

While I personally am not really effected by this, those dismissing it as a non issue are being quick to assume as it is cosmetic, it does not matter.
For a player whose end game is adventuring, be it PvP or pve, this is by no means P2W or detrimental in any way, so for them it is fine (I fall into this category, so lucky me)

But, for other people, trading and crafting is their passion and their end game. Farming these things is a big deal, it takes time to get the motif for use or selling/trading to get what you need. Once attained you then have a market to sell your crafted goods - there are people who love the look and a limited number of people able to make it. As a result there is a market for crafters who put in the effort.
With it being added to the store, it is easily attained, this means it can be harder for those not using cash to buy to get what they need (if you purchase the motif you likely won't farm for pages, so trading duplicates is less common). In addition, more people can craft the glass, meaning it is likely you have a friend or guildie who can make Glass armor. In most cases these people don't charge, you just give the material and it is made for you. This means the crafting market for it just got killed.
You can argue few will buy with cash, but between ESO+ people having a stockpile of crowns and the fact it is a crazy grind, it will be popular.
So, while it is not P2W, it does kill of a certain subset of people's end game (and given that adventuring end game is near non existent, they really shouldn't kill off other areas). For them it is the equivalent of selling monster helms in the store - they work to get their item (farming with worse RNG than helms or shoulders - needing the drop 10 times from daily chest and needing the right page) only for it to be easily available to any with cash.
To make this worse, unlike Dwemer, they added this very quickly to the store (to maximise profit). At least with Dwemer, enough time had passed so the pages and crafting were already commonplace.

Finally, while this may effect only a select number of people and their playstyle, there is still cause for concern - the obscenely excessive grind for the pages stinks of a key issue with LoTROs design. Make a painfully awful grind so that it is highly appealing to shortcut it via cash. While ESO so far has only done it with cosmteic stuff, it is not a far leap to see a trend (crazy long grind for materials for vr16, why not buy them with cash...as they are an unfinished product and not necessarily BiS, technically they could argue it is a reasonable sale. I believe LOTRO sells parts to an awesome item which bypasses a tedious grind, some of its players didn't even think this was P2W, it was merely 'convenience').

Harasdar · September 2015

andreasv wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Adding the glass motif to the crown store three weeks after the release of the DLC, is garbage ...

I completely share this view. At least let players try to get that stuff in game for a few months before offering it in the crown store. I will carry on playing the actual game before going the credit card route.

Hm...they need to make the money to keep their servers running and allowing us to play...soooo why would it make sense to sell the motif after most people already got it?????

I really don't see the point here if they would shut down the game because they can't maintain it anymore your precios crafted motifs would be worthless too...and that kind of special is what people are buying.

And to be honest ZOS did many things really wrong, but the crown store is really fair. You can't really buy any real advantage. They need to make money and if they can't I (and you all, incl. thread opener) will not able to play the game I like....that's easy math

I think it is a little bit like kickstarter and supporters of the game are able to choose between some "gifts" for supporting it. So if they sell constumes, motif, ridinglessons it is OK for me, it would be different if I would have to buy special weapons or other stuff I would need to keep up with other players.

PS: By the way...the pages are not really rare...I get one every 2-3 writs I hand in. And that I would call a fair chance.

Iluvrien · September 2015

Harasdar wrote: »

andreasv wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Adding the glass motif to the crown store three weeks after the release of the DLC, is garbage ...

I completely share this view. At least let players try to get that stuff in game for a few months before offering it in the crown store. I will carry on playing the actual game before going the credit card route.

Hm...they need to make the money to keep their servers running and allowing us to play...soooo why would it make sense to sell the motif after most people already got it?????

I really don't see the point here if they would shut down the game because they can't maintain it anymore your precios crafted motifs would be worthless too...and that kind of special is what people are buying.

And to be honest ZOS did many things really wrong, but the crown store is really fair. You can't really buy any real advantage. They need to make money and if they can't I (and you all, incl. thread opener) will not able to play the game I like....that's easy math I think it is a little bit like kickstarter and supporters of the game are able to choose between some "gifts" for supporting it. So if they sell constumes, motif, ridinglessons it is OK for me, it would be different if I would have to buy special weapons or other stuff I would need to keep up with other players.

False dilemma. It isn't "Sell motifs or close" it is "Sell motifs... or sell something else". Nice try though.

Harasdar wrote: »

PS: By the way...the pages are not really rare...I get one every 2-3 writs I hand in. And that I would call a fair chance.

Maybe that is why you don't value them. I have been lucky to get 1 page in 10 writs... and I have been doing a lot of writs.

Harasdar · September 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

Interesting idea. Alright then, do feel free to tell me how to remain a part of the crafting economy without buying the motif from the crown store or grinding. No, really. I am interesting in how you think this can be done because, you see, it isn't my choice that I have to deal with, it is ZOS's choice. Their choice to extend the time to get a motif beyond even that experienced during the hunt for Dwemer chapters. Their choice has changed the dynamics of the crafting economy.

So, please, tell me how I circumvent the system so as to carry on doing what I enjoy doing (crafting for others) without having to pay attention to the fundamental change in approach that ZOS has imposed.

I'm waiting.

Interesting point of view...so you want something special without doing anything special (grinding or buying)....

If everybody is able to craft their own whatever in the style they want there wouldn't be too many customers you could offer your crafted goods to...please think than post.

lathbury · September 2015

Harasdar wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Interesting idea. Alright then, do feel free to tell me how to remain a part of the crafting economy without buying the motif from the crown store or grinding. No, really. I am interesting in how you think this can be done because, you see, it isn't my choice that I have to deal with, it is ZOS's choice. Their choice to extend the time to get a motif beyond even that experienced during the hunt for Dwemer chapters. Their choice has changed the dynamics of the crafting economy.

So, please, tell me how I circumvent the system so as to carry on doing what I enjoy doing (crafting for others) without having to pay attention to the fundamental change in approach that ZOS has imposed.

I'm waiting.

Interesting point of view...so you want something special without doing anything special (grinding or buying)....

buying is special lol

Iluvrien · September 2015

Harasdar wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Interesting idea. Alright then, do feel free to tell me how to remain a part of the crafting economy without buying the motif from the crown store or grinding. No, really. I am interesting in how you think this can be done because, you see, it isn't my choice that I have to deal with, it is ZOS's choice. Their choice to extend the time to get a motif beyond even that experienced during the hunt for Dwemer chapters. Their choice has changed the dynamics of the crafting economy.

So, please, tell me how I circumvent the system so as to carry on doing what I enjoy doing (crafting for others) without having to pay attention to the fundamental change in approach that ZOS has imposed.

I'm waiting.

Interesting point of view...so you want something special without doing anything special (grinding or buying)....

Nice strawman, but no.

I've been playing and crafting since the first hour of PC early access. I have all pre-IC motifs (except Imperial) learned and I have level 50 in every craft. 8 traits in every equipment item and 9 in some of them. And I bought none of that.

So yeah, do feel free to tell me that I want something for nothing.

What I want is for ZOS to keep the difficulty of getting motifs to Dwemer motif level. I love playing. I can even occasionally stand grinding for a few hours. Pointlessly extended grinding just to artificially jack up the value of a crafting item in the Crown Store? That I will not do.

...but of course I don't need to worry about finding a solution to this conundrum as I am sure that @newtinmpls is going to provide one.

LameoveR · September 2015

"Dedicated Grinders who actually earned it"
I need levelup potions, i don't want to grind to VR16.
And CPup potions too.

Prof_Bawbag · September 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

Harasdar wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Interesting idea. Alright then, do feel free to tell me how to remain a part of the crafting economy without buying the motif from the crown store or grinding. No, really. I am interesting in how you think this can be done because, you see, it isn't my choice that I have to deal with, it is ZOS's choice. Their choice to extend the time to get a motif beyond even that experienced during the hunt for Dwemer chapters. Their choice has changed the dynamics of the crafting economy.

So, please, tell me how I circumvent the system so as to carry on doing what I enjoy doing (crafting for others) without having to pay attention to the fundamental change in approach that ZOS has imposed.

I'm waiting.

Interesting point of view...so you want something special without doing anything special (grinding or buying)....

Nice strawman, but no.

I've been playing and crafting since the first hour of PC early access. I have all pre-IC motifs (except Imperial) learned and I have level 50 in every craft. 8 traits in every equipment item and 9 in some of them. And I bought none of that.

So yeah, do feel free to tell me that I want something for nothing.

What I want is for ZOS to keep the difficulty of getting motifs to Dwemer motif level. I love playing. I can even occasionally stand grinding for a few hours. Pointlessly extended grinding just to artificially jack up the value of a crafting item in the Crown Store? That I will not do.

...but of course I don't need to worry about finding a solution to this conundrum as I am sure that @newtinmpls is going to provide one.

Something I learned pretty quickly around here is most of those people you've just responded to aren't worth the time nor effort such is their desire to lynch anyone and everyone with their "No one is forcing you to buy it" or "you want something for nothing" nonsense. Whether it's a relevant statement or not. That's all they have. They aren't interested in anything in-between. I have no idea why people can't wrap their heads around simple statements and answer them accordingly, without thinking everyone wants something for nothing.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

Brrrofski wrote: »

I find it crazy that an armour style if twice the price of DLC...

Can't just be me?

Actually I think it's nice that something useful and needed is less expensive than something that is pretty and useless.

Like a 5000$ room at Hilton is 100x the price of a room at the inn next door. If some have the cash and enjoy Hilton I think it's good that Hilton exist - as long as the 50$ inn still exists for those who need to use the basic feature which is sleeping overnight.

.

andreasv · September 2015

Harasdar wrote: »

andreasv wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Adding the glass motif to the crown store three weeks after the release of the DLC, is garbage ...

I completely share this view. At least let players try to get that stuff in game for a few months before offering it in the crown store. I will carry on playing the actual game before going the credit card route.

Hm...they need to make the money to keep their servers running and allowing us to play...soooo why would it make sense to sell the motif after most people already got it?????

I really don't see the point here if they would shut down the game because they can't maintain it anymore your precios crafted motifs would be worthless too...and that kind of special is what people are buying.

And to be honest ZOS did many things really wrong, but the crown store is really fair. You can't really buy any real advantage. They need to make money and if they can't I (and you all, incl. thread opener) will not able to play the game I like....that's easy math I think it is a little bit like kickstarter and supporters of the game are able to choose between some "gifts" for supporting it. So if they sell constumes, motif, ridinglessons it is OK for me, it would be different if I would have to buy special weapons or other stuff I would need to keep up with other players.

PS: By the way...the pages are not really rare...I get one every 2-3 writs I hand in. And that I would call a fair chance.

Do you seriously believe that the additional crafting motif will rescue the game from shutting down the servers. If so I agree with @lathbury.
I stand to my view that having a crafting motif to be something to be acquired by playing only for an extended period before offering it in the cash shop.

I do get your point of the company making money; I am a subscriber on PC and bought copies for XBox One and PS4 after all. I also buy mounts in the store, which you can't get in the game. All I am saying is that some cosmetic items should stay in game only and reward people who invest time in getting them.

newtinmpls · September 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

I don't grind, I don't spaz, I don't reflexively buy every new weird thing the crown store offers. I do still sub, so if/when I see something I want, I generally have the crowns to get it.

When others buy cosmetic/expensive items - I cheer. More longevity for the game, more fun for me.

If you grind, it's because you chose to. Deal with your choices.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Interesting idea. Alright then, do feel free to tell me how to remain a part of the crafting economy without buying the motif from the crown store or grinding.

<snip>

So, please, tell me how I circumvent the system so as to carry on doing what I enjoy doing (crafting for others) without having to pay attention to the fundamental change in approach that ZOS has imposed.

You seem to have confused two completely different points I was making. I will attempt to untangle them.

1-ZoS needs to simultaneously do two things: produce high quality gaming content, and keep the company running (and pay for) that development. This means that the occasional chunks of DLC/upgrades (I find the Justice System and IC in some ways comparable - but that's another sub-discussion) are going to be bankrolled by ongoing items in the store. As has been noted elswhere, the mounts and motifs are quite common.

Sub-point here: MMO's, even MMOPRGs are in a constant state of flux. Unlike single player games, they must constantly (or relatively ongoing-ly [yeah, I know that's not really a word] ) change things. Like tweaks, nerfs and the Justice System. So change will regularly happen, and as you note it will occasionally feel/be "fundamental".

You cannot continue to do exactly what you were/are doing for the entire life of the game (however long that may be). Change happens and will continue to happen.

2-Any given person playing the game has choices. I happen to really like crafting for others as well. However due to my intermittant and multi-player and chaotic playstyle, the highest of my 16 characters is currently vet 3. I like to gather materials and deconstruct. So I have hundreds of most of the materials up to vet 1-3, and probably at least one stack of 200 of the higher stuff (at any given time).

Two low "level" crafting sets that seem always to be in general demand are Seducer and Night's Silence. Popular styles are Breton and Imperial. So semi-regularly, I go off to one (or both) crafting stations, make a bunch of items of various levels in these sets, and put them up for sale in my guild stores. The "peripheral" items (basically everything other than curiass and leggings) tend to sell best, probably because people can still customize a lot of their look (and mix and match sets) and be extra picky about what sort of style/look they choose (there is that word again) for their most visible armor bits.

I choose a crafting style that does not require grinding. A style that does not require fancy motifs. That is what I offer and suggest.

No, I would not advise you to "circumvent the system", nor would I unrealistically expect you to be able to do the exact same crafting the exact same way in a game that does not stay the same.

I would say consider what IS. Then choose. Then take responsibility for having chosen.

Harasdar · September 2015

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Something I learned pretty quickly around here is most of those people you've just responded to aren't worth the time nor effort such is their desire to lynch anyone and everyone with their "No one is forcing you to buy it" or "you want something for nothing" nonsense. Whether it's a relevant statement or not. That's all they have. They aren't interested in anything in-between. I have no idea why people can't wrap their heads around simple statements and answer them accordingly, without thinking everyone wants something for nothing.

I don't care if somebody is buying or grinding anything. For me it is OK to subscripe, if anybody is playing without it I personally don't care, as it makes no diffenrence for me. I bought some horse from the crowns I got after they switched to B2P. They rest I kept...bought dwemer and some other motifs with ingame gold...as I don't know what to do else with it. But I really dislike if people are bashed just for supporting the game by buying stuff in the crown store.

But Iluvrien said the following

Iluvrien wrote: »

Interesting idea. Alright then, do feel free to tell me how to remain a part of the crafting economy without buying the motif from the crown store or grinding. No, really. I am interesting in how you think this can be done because, you see, it isn't my choice that I have to deal with, it is ZOS's choice...

So if he is not willing to grind or buy... at that point it is really hard not to think:

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

"you want something for nothing"

lathbury · September 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

1-ZoS needs to simultaneously do two things: produce high quality gaming content, and keep the company running (and pay for) that development. This means that the occasional chunks of DLC/upgrades (I find the Justice System and IC in some ways comparable - but that's another sub-discussion) are going to be bankrolled by ongoing items in the store. As has been noted elswhere, the mounts and motifs are quite common.

Sub-point here: MMO's, even MMOPRGs are in a constant state of flux. Unlike single player games, they must constantly (or relatively ongoing-ly [yeah, I know that's not really a word] ) change things. Like tweaks, nerfs and the Justice System. So change will regularly happen, and as you note it will occasionally feel/be "fundamental".

You cannot continue to do exactly what you were/are doing for the entire life of the game (however long that may be). Change happens and will continue to happen.

2-Any given person playing the game has choices. I happen to really like crafting for others as well. However due to my intermittant and multi-player and chaotic playstyle, the highest of my 16 characters is currently vet 3. I like to gather materials and deconstruct. So I have hundreds of most of the materials up to vet 1-3, and probably at least one stack of 200 of the higher stuff (at any given time).

Two low "level" crafting sets that seem always to be in general demand are Seducer and Night's Silence. Popular styles are Breton and Imperial. So semi-regularly, I go off to one (or both) crafting stations, make a bunch of items of various levels in these sets, and put them up for sale in my guild stores. The "peripheral" items (basically everything other than curiass and leggings) tend to sell best, probably because people can still customize a lot of their look (and mix and match sets) and be extra picky about what sort of style/look they choose (there is that word again) for their most visible armor bits.

I choose a crafting style that does not require grinding. A style that does not require fancy motifs. That is what I offer and suggest.

No, I would not advise you to "circumvent the system", nor would I unrealistically expect you to be able to do the exact same crafting the exact same way in a game that does not stay the same.

I would say consider what IS. Then choose. Then take responsibility for having chosen.

your wrong on your first point if you classify glass,imperial and xyvkin common.

I dont believe you are making any profits regularly selling breton and imperial seducer and night-silence pieces as you claim either. Also the fact that one of the styles is imperial means that it being in the crown store has already affeced the profits you claim to make as if it wasnt you would be part of a limited number of people able to make and trade this style.