Bolt escape, Talons, Biting jabs Potions

Wollust

sigh

BalgusFlinn

FROM URBAN DICTIONARY
Top Definition
l2p
Learn to play. Said to someone who obviously doesn't know how to play their class in a mmorpg.

Jitterbug

.

leepalmer95

*uses the strongest class in 1.7, the only one that didn't get nerfed, still complains about nerfing others*

CP5

leepalmer95 wrote: »

*uses the strongest class in 1.7, the only one that didn't get nerfed, still complains about nerfing others*

They have to point at others if they want to delay getting nerfed themselves.

StihlReign

ToRelax wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Wait, just thought of something. Tri-pots give resource regen, but green dragon blood gives those too, guessing ZOS could remove those so that dk's can reign supreme with that unique trait of regenerating resources over time. Honestly, invisibility has always been available from reagents and illusion spells, and if cloak is the only thing you think nightblades have...

This makes no sense. No potion functions the way green dragon's blood does.

You're being silly. Don't be silly.

"and if cloak is the only thing you think"...lol

Did you read the OP? Perhaps you were responding to someone else....

Yes, and thinking nightblades should 'own' invisibility when in the elder scrolls universe it is available from potions and skills is just as silly as saying dragonknights should have a monopoly on major regen buffs and any potion that provides those deprives the class of their uniqueness.

Your argument is a logical fallacy and cannot be taken seriously. Please address the topic directly rather than use strawman arguments that make little sense in their comparisons.

Fine, here's one. Invisibility is a buff, major regen is a buff. Bolt, talons and jabs are all active skills. There is no potion that triggers an active skill.

Invisibility (Cloak and it's morphs) are a NB skill.

Cloak ⊂ Invisbility sources

There are also invibility potions and Clouding Swarm. Further Cloak has secondary effects besides the invisbility buff as well, wich make the skill much more functional than the invisibility potions plus the latter have a cooldown so you can not reenter invisibility after being detected. Clouding Swarm gives visual clues, applies a self snare and doesn't purge DoTs/projectiles, but the invisbility can not be broken without potions or Mark Target.

So no, there are ways to gain the main effect Cloak provides, but there is certainly not a "Cloak potion".

Invis pots typically have secondary effects as well; however, we're not discussing those.

The base skill, the core strength of the class is the ability to go into stealth via a slotted skill.

The core strength of each of the other classes should also be available as a potion, to be used similar to invis pots.

While I don't disagree with what you stated regarding the skills, thus far I've seen nothing to suggest the idea isn't sound.

In fact, the comments thus far attacking the idea have been pretty amusing.

Seems like a good idea...lol

ToRelax

StihlReign wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Wait, just thought of something. Tri-pots give resource regen, but green dragon blood gives those too, guessing ZOS could remove those so that dk's can reign supreme with that unique trait of regenerating resources over time. Honestly, invisibility has always been available from reagents and illusion spells, and if cloak is the only thing you think nightblades have...

This makes no sense. No potion functions the way green dragon's blood does.

You're being silly. Don't be silly.

"and if cloak is the only thing you think"...lol

Did you read the OP? Perhaps you were responding to someone else....

Yes, and thinking nightblades should 'own' invisibility when in the elder scrolls universe it is available from potions and skills is just as silly as saying dragonknights should have a monopoly on major regen buffs and any potion that provides those deprives the class of their uniqueness.

Your argument is a logical fallacy and cannot be taken seriously. Please address the topic directly rather than use strawman arguments that make little sense in their comparisons.

Fine, here's one. Invisibility is a buff, major regen is a buff. Bolt, talons and jabs are all active skills. There is no potion that triggers an active skill.

Invisibility (Cloak and it's morphs) are a NB skill.

Cloak ⊂ Invisbility sources

There are also invibility potions and Clouding Swarm. Further Cloak has secondary effects besides the invisbility buff as well, wich make the skill much more functional than the invisibility potions plus the latter have a cooldown so you can not reenter invisibility after being detected. Clouding Swarm gives visual clues, applies a self snare and doesn't purge DoTs/projectiles, but the invisbility can not be broken without potions or Mark Target.

So no, there are ways to gain the main effect Cloak provides, but there is certainly not a "Cloak potion".

Invis pots typically have secondary effects as well; however, we're not discussing those.

The base skill, the core strength of the class is the ability to go into stealth via a slotted skill.

The core strength of each of the other classes should also be available as a potion, to be used similar to invis pots.

While I don't disagree with what you stated regarding the skills, thus far I've seen nothing to suggest the idea isn't sound.

In fact, the comments thus far attacking the idea have been pretty amusing.

Seems like a good idea...lol

Who attacked it even? I don't see anyone who's concerned about such a change. A potion to bolt 15m forward? Or reflect 4 projectiles? A potion that heals the player with lowest health around instead of certainly yourself?
Doesn't sound like something changing the balance anyhow really, though maybe i would keep bolt potions on non sorcs to jump over gaps sometimes...

OurOwn

*uses bolt potion to move 15m away. Gets hit by ambush. Cannot drink another bolt potion for 40 seconds.*
Haha

StihlReign

OurOwn wrote: »

*uses bolt potion to move 15m away. Gets hit by ambush. Cannot drink another bolt potion for 40 seconds.*
Haha

lol...

Maybe a bolt Immovable pot? or 5 bolts over 20 seconds? Speed bolt? Invis bolt?

Derra

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Immovable potions + gap closer?

You can craft immovable + speed. Profit. Counter to bolt potion.

Ashamray

LameoveR wrote: »

"I win!" potion for that gentleman.

"I win!" potion will restore all your resourses immediately, give you additional 1500 weapon and spell damage and destroy you after 10 seconds if you won't kill an enemy player.

monkeymystic

Cloak has lots of counters already, if they nerf cloak more, they are nerfing NBs too much IMO. NBs lack survival tools outside of cloak, where templars have extremely OP self heals (that also heal others in the process), DKs have reflects, heals, shields, battle roar passive, and sorc has mobility, op AoE self heals, op shields that scale with offense and so on.

Nerfing cloak even more with the current pots, skills and counters to it = you nerf NBs back to where they were at the bottom to begin with.

StihlReign

Ashamray wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

"I win!" potion for that gentleman.

"I win!" potion will restore all your resourses immediately, give you additional 1500 weapon and spell damage and destroy you after 10 seconds if you won't kill an enemy player.

This makes no sense.

Did you read the OP? Perhaps you didn't understand the topic...

StihlReign

leepalmer95 wrote: »

*uses the strongest class in 1.7, the only one that didn't get nerfed, still complains about nerfing others*

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic. Did you read the OP?

This is a discussion about making a single core skill of the other classes available as a potion.

Do you have any idea which skill you'd like to see as a potion?

StihlReign

BalgusFlinn wrote: »

FROM URBAN DICTIONARY
Top Definition
l2p
Learn to play. Said to someone who obviously doesn't know how to play their class in a mmorpg.

Perhaps the thread was confusing. What do potions have to do with learning the game?

Are you asking us to explain to you how potions work?

Leandor

CP5 wrote: »

If I had a decent block of time I would look at all the prior patch notes and pick out all the buffs zos gave cloak in order to "make it work". If cloak listed all the things that it actively has on it..

It's duration did never change, the secondary effects of the morphs did never change (except for the fact that it took a year to get the secondary effects of dark cloak to actually work), the effectivity of the counters was never reduced (actually, it was buffed in the latest patch with making single target abilities hit a discovered cloaker).

The only buff cloak ever got was a) making it work as the tooltip promised and b) reduction of pot duration down to the same length as all other "special effects" durations (immovable, invisible).

The only other effect that cloak brings is the shadow barrier passive (which is documented).

Ashamray

StihlReign wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

LameoveR wrote: »

"I win!" potion for that gentleman.

"I win!" potion will restore all your resourses immediately, give you additional 1500 weapon and spell damage and destroy you after 10 seconds if you won't kill an enemy player.

This makes no sense.

Did you read the OP? Perhaps you didn't understand the topic...

You didn't understand a joke.

CP5

StihlReign wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

*uses the strongest class in 1.7, the only one that didn't get nerfed, still complains about nerfing others*

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic. Did you read the OP?

This is a discussion about making a single core skill of the other classes available as a potion.

Do you have any idea which skill you'd like to see as a potion?

So nightblades, because they have a skill that provides invisibility (two really, because of veils synergy) own invisibility as a buff?

@Leandor, i've looked at the patch notes and am guessing the changes I remember reading about were minor and not listed. I did however look over all the nightblade balance changes from 1.0.1 to now and a vast majority of the changes are bug fixes, then followed by buffs, and then very few fixes and lastly nerfs. If nightblades were to get one more nerf they would still be leagues ahead of sorc's and dk's in the buffs to nerfs department. If people don't believe me, check out all the patch notes, I really, really doubt they would become 'the bottom class' as some people want to believe.

Leandor

CP5 wrote: »

@Leandor, i've looked at the patch notes and am guessing the changes I remember reading about were minor and not listed. I did however look over all the nightblade balance changes from 1.0.1 to now and a vast majority of the changes are bug fixes, then followed by buffs, and then very few fixes and lastly nerfs. If nightblades were to get one more nerf they would still be leagues ahead of sorc's and dk's in the buffs to nerfs department. If people don't believe me, check out all the patch notes, I really, really doubt they would become 'the bottom class' as some people want to believe.

I disagree to that statement, in a way. If you do any nerf, you are right. If you nerf cloak, you kill the class' viability to a large degree, similar to what was done to dragonknights. While the class still exists, there is no reason to build a stamina dragonknight anymore, since their strengths were removed for the sake of balancing but nothing was added as an incentive.

Currently, cloak is not only the signature move of nightblades, it's their only strength. They have less resource regeneration than sorcerers or dragonknights, less survivability than any other class, less group utilities (no group buffs except for veil of blades damage reduction) than any other class, less class specific defense than anyone. The only thing other than cloak clocking in to the nightblade's advantage is mass hysteria.

That is the simple truth. The only two things that people complain about in the forums is the two things that make it worth playing a nightblade. Any of the proposals (like stopping magicka regeneration or cost increase á la dodge roll) will punish the stam blade, who cannot readily abuse cloak. Magicka nightblades will continue to spam it.

Please for the love of this game, stop this nerf circle jerk. And for the record, I stopped playing a nightblade since my playstyle was destroyed with the dodge nerf and I have zero interest in becoming one of the 2H wielding, perma cloaking prox det spammers that seems to be the current envisioned game for nightblades.

CP5

Leandor wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Leandor, i've looked at the patch notes and am guessing the changes I remember reading about were minor and not listed. I did however look over all the nightblade balance changes from 1.0.1 to now and a vast majority of the changes are bug fixes, then followed by buffs, and then very few fixes and lastly nerfs. If nightblades were to get one more nerf they would still be leagues ahead of sorc's and dk's in the buffs to nerfs department. If people don't believe me, check out all the patch notes, I really, really doubt they would become 'the bottom class' as some people want to believe.

I disagree to that statement, in a way. If you do any nerf, you are right. If you nerf cloak, you kill the class' viability to a large degree, similar to what was done to dragonknights. While the class still exists, there is no reason to build a stamina dragonknight anymore, since their strengths were removed for the sake of balancing but nothing was added as an incentive.

Currently, cloak is not only the signature move of nightblades, it's their only strength. They have less resource regeneration than sorcerers or dragonknights, less survivability than any other class, less group utilities (no group buffs except for veil of blades damage reduction) than any other class, less class specific defense than anyone. The only thing other than cloak clocking in to the nightblade's advantage is mass hysteria.

That is the simple truth. The only two things that people complain about in the forums is the two things that make it worth playing a nightblade. Any of the proposals (like stopping magicka regeneration or cost increase á la dodge roll) will punish the stam blade, who cannot readily abuse cloak. Magicka nightblades will continue to spam it.

Please for the love of this game, stop this nerf circle jerk. And for the record, I stopped playing a nightblade since my playstyle was destroyed with the dodge nerf and I have zero interest in becoming one of the 2H wielding, perma cloaking prox det spammers that seems to be the current envisioned game for nightblades.

I'm not for nerfing nightblades, just pointing out the fact they have had the easiest time with nerfs and seeing as most everything else in game got hit recently they show clearly. Cloak is not a nightblades only strength unless its the only thing from your class you use. Refreshing shadows went from a short duration 10% stamina regen buff, to an always active 30% buff, and now it was, some would say nerfed to 15% everything. That is good resource regeneration that other classes don't passively get.

If stamina nightblades don't use cloak frequently, and likely have lower end magicka regen, how would 0 regen for a small window of time so negatively impact them? It is no secret that my first character is a sorcerer, stamina based, and the number of nerfs that went that way because of a few bolt spamming players is irritating. I don't agree with nerfs, but I don't agree with nightblades who feel that cloak is the thing their class has when they have so many things better.

Xeniph

ZOS_GinaBruno
admin




Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.


Source- forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2274406#Comment_2274406

Eventually something will change and you can bet most won't be happy, NB's and those calling for the nerfs.

What you can bank on is that people will adapt, come up with builds that can circumvent most any change implemented, or alter their playstyles that will shift outcry's to another skill/ability/class or what have you. In 19 years of playing MMO's, this has always and will always remain the trend.

One thing that is unique to ESO? You can also bank on them screwing up the coding/functionality of stealth/invisibility. They have in every update thus far.

Kas

StihlReign wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Wait, just thought of something. Tri-pots give resource regen, but green dragon blood gives those too, guessing ZOS could remove those so that dk's can reign supreme with that unique trait of regenerating resources over time. Honestly, invisibility has always been available from reagents and illusion spells, and if cloak is the only thing you think nightblades have...

This makes no sense. No potion functions the way green dragon's blood does.

You're being silly. Don't be silly.

"and if cloak is the only thing you think"...lol

Did you read the OP? Perhaps you were responding to someone else....

radiant. f*ing. aura.
A skill entirely subsumed by the SECONDARY effect of tripots which also have 100% uptime. But obviously, cloak has the same cooldown invis pots have and teh dot remobing part is of course part of the potion and not the skill... sure sure

I have no idea what you're saying or the point you're attempting make. I'm sorry.

Subsumed means under the heading of, or, as part of a general rule or principal.

Radiant aura is a skill [under the heading of, or as part of a general rule or principal] by the SECONDARY effect of tripots which also have 100% uptime.

Hmm...

non-native speaker, meant it as: subsume - include or absorb (something) in something else.
probably not how it's used normally. if you had any clue about how this game works, you probably would have understood it anyway...

radiant aura is FULLY included by tripots - as their secondary effect. (20% more reg, does not stack with each other).

unlike invis/detection, the regen form tripots can be up 100% of the time and the instant refill of resources is not provided by the skill, whereas cloak removes dots and can provide much longer invis than stealth pots.

or in short: l2p and stop crying

StihlReign

Kas wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Wait, just thought of something. Tri-pots give resource regen, but green dragon blood gives those too, guessing ZOS could remove those so that dk's can reign supreme with that unique trait of regenerating resources over time. Honestly, invisibility has always been available from reagents and illusion spells, and if cloak is the only thing you think nightblades have...

This makes no sense. No potion functions the way green dragon's blood does.

You're being silly. Don't be silly.

"and if cloak is the only thing you think"...lol

Did you read the OP? Perhaps you were responding to someone else....

radiant. f*ing. aura.
A skill entirely subsumed by the SECONDARY effect of tripots which also have 100% uptime. But obviously, cloak has the same cooldown invis pots have and teh dot remobing part is of course part of the potion and not the skill... sure sure

I have no idea what you're saying or the point you're attempting make. I'm sorry.

Subsumed means under the heading of, or, as part of a general rule or principal.

Radiant aura is a skill [under the heading of, or as part of a general rule or principal] by the SECONDARY effect of tripots which also have 100% uptime.

Hmm...

non-native speaker, meant it as: subsume - include or absorb (something) in something else.
probably not how it's used normally. if you had any clue about how this game works, you probably would have understood it anyway...

radiant aura is FULLY included by tripots - as their secondary effect. (20% more reg, does not stack with each other).

unlike invis/detection, the regen form tripots can be up 100% of the time and the instant refill of resources is not provided by the skill, whereas cloak removes dots and can provide much longer invis than stealth pots.

or in short: l2p and stop crying

You're not making sense.

Do you understand the topic? I apologize, I didn't ask how the game works.

Perhaps you're in the wrong place.

Leandor

CP5 wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Leandor, i've looked at the patch notes and am guessing the changes I remember reading about were minor and not listed. I did however look over all the nightblade balance changes from 1.0.1 to now and a vast majority of the changes are bug fixes, then followed by buffs, and then very few fixes and lastly nerfs. If nightblades were to get one more nerf they would still be leagues ahead of sorc's and dk's in the buffs to nerfs department. If people don't believe me, check out all the patch notes, I really, really doubt they would become 'the bottom class' as some people want to believe.

I disagree to that statement, in a way. If you do any nerf, you are right. If you nerf cloak, you kill the class' viability to a large degree, similar to what was done to dragonknights. While the class still exists, there is no reason to build a stamina dragonknight anymore, since their strengths were removed for the sake of balancing but nothing was added as an incentive.

Currently, cloak is not only the signature move of nightblades, it's their only strength. They have less resource regeneration than sorcerers or dragonknights, less survivability than any other class, less group utilities (no group buffs except for veil of blades damage reduction) than any other class, less class specific defense than anyone. The only thing other than cloak clocking in to the nightblade's advantage is mass hysteria.

That is the simple truth. The only two things that people complain about in the forums is the two things that make it worth playing a nightblade. Any of the proposals (like stopping magicka regeneration or cost increase á la dodge roll) will punish the stam blade, who cannot readily abuse cloak. Magicka nightblades will continue to spam it.

Please for the love of this game, stop this nerf circle jerk. And for the record, I stopped playing a nightblade since my playstyle was destroyed with the dodge nerf and I have zero interest in becoming one of the 2H wielding, perma cloaking prox det spammers that seems to be the current envisioned game for nightblades.

I'm not for nerfing nightblades, just pointing out the fact they have had the easiest time with nerfs and seeing as most everything else in game got hit recently they show clearly. Cloak is not a nightblades only strength unless its the only thing from your class you use. Refreshing shadows went from a short duration 10% stamina regen buff, to an always active 30% buff, and now it was, some would say nerfed to 15% everything. That is good resource regeneration that other classes don't passively get.

If stamina nightblades don't use cloak frequently, and likely have lower end magicka regen, how would 0 regen for a small window of time so negatively impact them? It is no secret that my first character is a sorcerer, stamina based, and the number of nerfs that went that way because of a few bolt spamming players is irritating. I don't agree with nerfs, but I don't agree with nightblades who feel that cloak is the thing their class has when they have so many things better.

The change to refreshing shadows was a huge buff for magicka nightblades but an equally huge nerf for stamina blades. I have much less resource issues on my sorc compared to my nightblade, for both, stamina as well as magicka. As usual, opinions are largely based on personal experiences, and these may differ by a large margin.

Regeneration passives aside, the nightblade has little options outside of weapon lines that make use of the regeneration advantage. In a head to head, it is rally + wb + executioner that makes nightblades win, not class abilities other than cloak & fear. Or steel tornado. Of course, surprise attack is a good skill, but nothing exceptional, just a button to spam. There are many like it.

There is a very powerful rock to the nightblade's scissors in the sorcerer, especially with the new battle spirit. Cloak makes the nightblade be the scissors to the dk's paper, and so on. It is important to remain as is.

The thoughts quoted above in regards to cloak spam make me very apprehensive of the future balancing. It really and totally seems to end in a "one-class-fits-all" mentality.

StihlReign

CP5 wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

*uses the strongest class in 1.7, the only one that didn't get nerfed, still complains about nerfing others*

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic. Did you read the OP?

This is a discussion about making a single core skill of the other classes available as a potion.

Do you have any idea which skill you'd like to see as a potion?

So nightblades, because they have a skill that provides invisibility (two really, because of veils synergy) own invisibility as a buff?

No.

Minno

StihlReign wrote: »

The NB class is hampered by the dev's decision to give one of it's base skills to everyone via potions. (invis & detect pots)

There should also be potions available to each class with a core skill from the other classes.

The devs would have to coordinate the cooldowns of potions and skills. You'd end up with a coding nightmare.

Best to leave it as is and accept the weakness of cloak as is contained in a crafting skill set.

Which BTW, this suggestion nerfs alchemy and this crafting line needs to be flexible to align with the lore of elder scrolls.
All of the games allowed you to craft drinkable potions that buffed up your stats for specific encounters.

Embrace this science.

ToRelax

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cloak has lots of counters already, if they nerf cloak more, they are nerfing NBs too much IMO. NBs lack survival tools outside of cloak, where templars have extremely OP self heals (that also heal others in the process), DKs have reflects, heals, shields, battle roar passive, and sorc has mobility, op AoE self heals, op shields that scale with offense and so on.

Nerfing cloak even more with the current pots, skills and counters to it = you nerf NBs back to where they were at the bottom to begin with.

What are these op AoE self heals pls? Want.

Emma_Overload

Leandor wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

@Leandor, i've looked at the patch notes and am guessing the changes I remember reading about were minor and not listed. I did however look over all the nightblade balance changes from 1.0.1 to now and a vast majority of the changes are bug fixes, then followed by buffs, and then very few fixes and lastly nerfs. If nightblades were to get one more nerf they would still be leagues ahead of sorc's and dk's in the buffs to nerfs department. If people don't believe me, check out all the patch notes, I really, really doubt they would become 'the bottom class' as some people want to believe.

I disagree to that statement, in a way. If you do any nerf, you are right. If you nerf cloak, you kill the class' viability to a large degree, similar to what was done to dragonknights. While the class still exists, there is no reason to build a stamina dragonknight anymore, since their strengths were removed for the sake of balancing but nothing was added as an incentive.

Currently, cloak is not only the signature move of nightblades, it's their only strength. They have less resource regeneration than sorcerers or dragonknights, less survivability than any other class, less group utilities (no group buffs except for veil of blades damage reduction) than any other class, less class specific defense than anyone. The only thing other than cloak clocking in to the nightblade's advantage is mass hysteria.

That is the simple truth. The only two things that people complain about in the forums is the two things that make it worth playing a nightblade. Any of the proposals (like stopping magicka regeneration or cost increase á la dodge roll) will punish the stam blade, who cannot readily abuse cloak. Magicka nightblades will continue to spam it.

Please for the love of this game, stop this nerf circle jerk. And for the record, I stopped playing a nightblade since my playstyle was destroyed with the dodge nerf and I have zero interest in becoming one of the 2H wielding, perma cloaking prox det spammers that seems to be the current envisioned game for nightblades.

ALL of the arguments you're making are the same kinds of arguments Sorcs like me made about Bolt Escape and its morphs... and guess what? NOBODY CARED, including ZOS devs. They went ahead and gave our "class defining" skill the worst nerf in the history of MMOs: an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost! Not to mention the horrible nerf to the Ball of Lightning morph that rendered it nearly useless as a defensive skill.

Nightblades are the very definition of a class who likes to dish it out but can't take it. As long as you guys want to dance around with your cheap and cheat-y playstyle and then poof into thin air whenever you want, you better believe NO ONE is gonna cry for you when you get nerfed.

Tonturri

ToRelax wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cloak has lots of counters already, if they nerf cloak more, they are nerfing NBs too much IMO. NBs lack survival tools outside of cloak, where templars have extremely OP self heals (that also heal others in the process), DKs have reflects, heals, shields, battle roar passive, and sorc has mobility, op AoE self heals, op shields that scale with offense and so on.

Nerfing cloak even more with the current pots, skills and counters to it = you nerf NBs back to where they were at the bottom to begin with.

What are these op AoE self heals pls? Want.

They're in the same place that 'uncounterable' bolt escape thingermajig, OP GDB healing, and the templar heals that never under any circumstance totally ignore the templar in favor of another somehow more worthy person and can't be debuffed like mad are.

CP5

ToRelax wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cloak has lots of counters already, if they nerf cloak more, they are nerfing NBs too much IMO. NBs lack survival tools outside of cloak, where templars have extremely OP self heals (that also heal others in the process), DKs have reflects, heals, shields, battle roar passive, and sorc has mobility, op AoE self heals, op shields that scale with offense and so on.

Nerfing cloak even more with the current pots, skills and counters to it = you nerf NBs back to where they were at the bottom to begin with.

What are these op AoE self heals pls? Want.

I would also like an elaboration on this, as well as the "and so on" part. Nightblades have an ultimate that drains health from 6 targets, another that provides massive damage reduction, and they have two strong burst heals (mark and killers blade) as well as a few over time heals, not to mention the many ways they can avoid damage and resist damage from skills other than cloak.