Guide: How To Counter Shield Breaker

1Grumpy_dunmer1

BalticBlues wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This is one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it is the only thing in the game that brings balance to shield recasting/stacking. Good players will adapt [...] Stop crying and learn 2 play

Once ALL players will have the Shield Breaker set, the first time a helpful healer will cast a shield around you that does not protect you anymore but kill you (because you become a damage magnet), you will remember these words.

And then, after the Shield Breaker set turning shielded people into death targets, let's give us the Cloak Breaker set turning cloaked NBs into sitting ducks as well. "The Cloak Breaker set would be one of my favorite new sets in the game", because it would be "the only thing in the game that brings balance to cloak recasting" [...] "Cloaked users are virtually unkillable in small scale combat outside of people using this set". Good players will adapt [...] No more cloaking out of face-to-face battles. Finally fair fights. [...] "Stop crying and learn 2 play".

And then let's have more Class Breaker sets. What else can we think of?
How about a Heal Breaker set: Who wears this set turns healing speels into damage.
So the enemy is not healing but killing itself, as shields do now with the shield breaker set.
Imagine the fun. "Good players will adapt."

I know right cloak does so much damage. Those nightblades always killing me while invisible. Nothing I can do except stand there and die. L2p bruh I've never had an issue with killing nightblades.

Bramir

So, the takeaway from this thread is that sorcerers must use a restoration staff at all times in order to have any defense against people using the shieldbreaker set. I tried changing to a stamina build, but it isn't the playstyle I wanted from my sorcerer. So, I changed back to magicka, and pvp on my nightblade instead.

I also learned from this thread that a lot of nightblades think pressing a button to become invisible makes them daedric princes...

pelennor_fields

BrassRazoo wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

14548"]let's also give us the Cloak Breaker set turning cloaked NBs into sitting ducks as well. The Cloak Breaker set would be one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it would the only thing in the game that brings balance to cloak recasting. Good players will adapt [...] No more cloaking out of face-to-face battles. Finally fair fights. [...] Stop crying NBs and learn 2 play.

Oh you mean:
Detect pots?
Sentry Set?
Radiant Magelight?
Any AOE?
Revealing Flare?

You could certainly add a Cloak Breaker set to the game, but 6 anti-cloak options vs 1 (5 piece set) anti-shield option: the scales still aren't balanced.

Oh you mean:
Detect pots? = Useless
Sentry Set?
Radiant Magelight? = Useless
Any AOE? = Useless
Revealing Flare? = Useless

phaseadept wrote: »

^^ those aren't useless

Radiant magelight - confirmed... Completely useless.

zornyan

Valencer wrote: »

For sorcerers, it might also be time to consider not putting every single enchantment, attribute and set bonus into max magicka and instead adding some more health...

Yes, 2.6k spell damage and 35k max magicka is nice, but low health leaves you very little breathing room. Honestly, I think it's a good thing they added a set like this... maybe the number needs tweaking, but the idea is solid.

Pfft that's nothing, look at the guys in the combat section that have 56k and 65k magicka.....that's just a *** tske, we need soft caps .

Ara_Valleria

Lord_Hev wrote: »

@sabresandiego_ESO, you have no authority to speak as a sorc. You gave up your sorc in 1.6 and sold your soul to NB stam FOTM. Your only experience comes from an out-dated 2h/resto magic build that was killed by ZOS in 1.6. This is clearly a biased post. You have not played a magic sorcerer build in 1.6 meta enough, to warrant this assessment.




To balance this set, it needs either a cool-down, proc only on fully charged heavy attacks(why do other sets + molten armaments have to suffer from this treatment, while shield-breaker gets a free pass?) or change the way it handles damage shields entirely.


Spamming light attacks to completely destroy a sorc's only defense, while utterly destroying Templar and Dragonknight class shields + the utility of healing ward is absolutely absurd

80% of the people using this amazing set is just running around light attack spamming this crap. They dont use any other abilities just stay behind a group and light attack spam with a bow.

This game keeps getting watered down to easy buttons.

Zos your development team is truly incompetent if your solution to every single problem is nerf/easy buttons/bandAid fix.

LoreRiley

I felt so bad when I casted Igneous Sheild to start healing and it affected my buddy who 1 second later got melted by a light attack bow spam. So much for teamwork

Jsmalls

Surge is my answer to shield breaker. With 70% critical chance and another 15% critical damage bonus you can bet my frags give me loads of health . And an aggressive offense sometimes is the best defense.

Only thing is doesn't work against is 1v x's , but even then I can get a solid 5k health back or more streaking through a group of people. And that's always fun.

Ezareth

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Surge is my answer to shield breaker. With 70% critical chance and another 15% critical damage bonus you can bet my frags give me loads of health . And an aggressive offense sometimes is the best defense.

Only thing is doesn't work against is 1v x's , but even then I can get a solid 5k health back or more streaking through a group of people. And that's always fun.

Until you fight someone like sabre who weaves cloak into most of your attacks along with block and dodge roll so critting him is far more difficult than you would think.

Jsmalls

Ezareth wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

Surge is my answer to shield breaker. With 70% critical chance and another 15% critical damage bonus you can bet my frags give me loads of health . And an aggressive offense sometimes is the best defense.

Only thing is doesn't work against is 1v x's , but even then I can get a solid 5k health back or more streaking through a group of people. And that's always fun.

Until you fight someone like sabre who weaves cloak into most of your attacks along with block and dodge roll so critting him is far more difficult than you would think.

Yeah fighting a cloaking NB is very challenging, streak is really my only defense against them, and unfortunately ZOS made it so if I keep using streak to reveal a cloaked NB I get punished... (Yet a NB can spam cloak and do the same thing sorcerers used to use it for, sigh...)

Valen_Byte

Lilarna wrote: »

Everybody's only focused on Sorcs, but aren't DKs a seriously shield-oriented class ? It's starting to bug me, all this "sorc-cyring" mania.

Except the fact that DKs are crap now lol

Digiman wrote: »

Essentially Shield breaker set is the devs way of punishing magicka sorcerers who were forced to stack shield to survive while wearing 5 piece light armor because they made LIGHT ARMOR 1/4 THE DEFENSE AS HEAVY.

How much protection does a piece of cloth give? If you walk up to me in cloth...and Im wearing metal...umm I could take you out with a paperclip. Light should have close to 0 physical resistance. On the flip side, heavy should have close to no spell resistance, and medium should be balanced right in the middle.

revonine

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

@sabresandiego_ESO, you have no authority to speak as a sorc. You gave up your sorc in 1.6 and sold your soul to NB stam FOTM. Your only experience comes from an out-dated 2h/resto magic build that was killed by ZOS in 1.6. This is clearly a biased post. You have not played a magic sorcerer build in 1.6 meta enough, to warrant this assessment.




To balance this set, it needs either a cool-down, proc only on fully charged heavy attacks(why do other sets + molten armaments have to suffer from this treatment, while shield-breaker gets a free pass?) or change the way it handles damage shields entirely.


Spamming light attacks to completely destroy a sorc's only defense, while utterly destroying Templar and Dragonknight class shields + the utility of healing ward is absolutely absurd

80% of the people using this amazing set is just running around light attack spamming this crap. They dont use any other abilities just stay behind a group and light attack spam with a bow.

This game keeps getting watered down to easy buttons.

Zos your development team is truly incompetent if your solution to every single problem is nerf/easy buttons/bandAid fix.

Any encounter i've had with Shield breaker on console and this is what's happening too. No weaving just straight up light attack spam. Seems it's used alot more very recently too.
Inversely I'm seeing so many wannabe Sorc 1vx-ers crawling out of the woodwork using the setup Sypher used for his recent emp push. Seriously second I see Inevitable applied to me I know exactly what's coming.

I doubt it's a coincidence. Annoying fighting an army of Sorcs spamming det on you xD

Docmandu

BrassRazoo wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

14548"]let's also give us the Cloak Breaker set turning cloaked NBs into sitting ducks as well. The Cloak Breaker set would be one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it would the only thing in the game that brings balance to cloak recasting. Good players will adapt [...] No more cloaking out of face-to-face battles. Finally fair fights. [...] Stop crying NBs and learn 2 play.

Oh you mean:
Detect pots?
Sentry Set?
Radiant Magelight?
Any AOE?
Revealing Flare?

You could certainly add a Cloak Breaker set to the game, but 6 anti-cloak options vs 1 (5 piece set) anti-shield option: the scales still aren't balanced.

Oh you mean:
Detect pots? = Useless
Sentry Set?
Radiant Magelight? = Useless
Any AOE? = Useless
Revealing Flare? = Useless

Sentry set = useless... doesn't help you reveal invisible targets.. only normal stealthed targets.

Have tried sentry + RML for a bit... waste of a 5th piece bonus and double skill slot.

Silverminken

Dyride wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

1. The set was designed after ZoS made Light Armor weak as Tissue paper, 1/4 Heavy armor Because of that Shield stacking was the only way to live as a MAGICKA SORCERER.

Light armor now gives 1/2 the armor as heavy. Also the decreased damage greatly increases the value of more health.

Digiman wrote: »

2. Sorcerers don't have a dedicated self heal or a sustain DPS method. It's burst set up, Shield stacking helped set this up.

Surge is good now, did you hear?

Good how? it is very unreliable, and it still suffers from cooldowns... I should know, I run 70% Critical chance and after checking my combat logs, I the healing I get from Surge is sporadic! I'm usually way better of recasting my shield hoping for the cooldown on surge to tricker on my next high damage crit... hoping the target is not wearing lots of impenetrable gear, as that severly effects my crit damage.

Surge is not even good as a reliable heal during PvE, where I can crit over 20k. Since it could as easily just heal me of my crit light attack of 2k instead. It is better now that is does not proc of damage over time effects, which really made it useless with is cool down. I do not get that, why nuke a passive ability like this, when the very similiar in effect sap essence from NB can be spammed without no cool down... and this is instant health! Surge needs you do critical hit to deliver any health... and not even every critical hit counts...

Silverminken

revonine wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

@sabresandiego_ESO, you have no authority to speak as a sorc. You gave up your sorc in 1.6 and sold your soul to NB stam FOTM. Your only experience comes from an out-dated 2h/resto magic build that was killed by ZOS in 1.6. This is clearly a biased post. You have not played a magic sorcerer build in 1.6 meta enough, to warrant this assessment.




To balance this set, it needs either a cool-down, proc only on fully charged heavy attacks(why do other sets + molten armaments have to suffer from this treatment, while shield-breaker gets a free pass?) or change the way it handles damage shields entirely.


Spamming light attacks to completely destroy a sorc's only defense, while utterly destroying Templar and Dragonknight class shields + the utility of healing ward is absolutely absurd

80% of the people using this amazing set is just running around light attack spamming this crap. They dont use any other abilities just stay behind a group and light attack spam with a bow.

This game keeps getting watered down to easy buttons.

Zos your development team is truly incompetent if your solution to every single problem is nerf/easy buttons/bandAid fix.

Any encounter i've had with Shield breaker on console and this is what's happening too. No weaving just straight up light attack spam. Seems it's used alot more very recently too.
Inversely I'm seeing so many wannabe Sorc 1vx-ers crawling out of the woodwork using the setup Sypher used for his recent emp push. Seriously second I see Inevitable applied to me I know exactly what's coming.

I doubt it's a coincidence. Annoying fighting an army of Sorcs spamming det on you xD

Well I have encountered a few variants of people using this, but most of them are running around solo or in small groups.

The solo ones usually two one of two things
1. Wrecking Blow, Wrecking Blow, Wrecking Blow... 10k+ damage per blow...
2. Light attack with bows.

And the ones in group usually stays in the back and just spamming light attacks with his bow! While some tankier friend is in my face distracting me with all kinds of CC...

Lucky28

I hate this set so much. Zero skill, Zero Diversity and most the people who use this set just run away and log out when you try and target them and you never see them again. Shieldbreaker is a sickness in PvP.

Derra

Lucky28 wrote: »

I hate this set so much. Zero skill, Zero Diversity and most the people who use this set just run away and log out when you try and target them and you never see them again. Shieldbreaker is a sickness in PvP.

The problem is anyone stacking shields is still a pain in the ass to kill without shieldbreaker...

I don´t get why they don´t remove stacking shields altogether.

Maulkin

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

I hate this set so much. Zero skill, Zero Diversity and most the people who use this set just run away and log out when you try and target them and you never see them again. Shieldbreaker is a sickness in PvP.

The problem is anyone stacking shields is still a pain in the ass to kill without shieldbreaker...

I don´t get why they don´t remove stacking shields altogether.

...or why the set is stamina when shield stacking is stronger against magic users.

Lucky28

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

I hate this set so much. Zero skill, Zero Diversity and most the people who use this set just run away and log out when you try and target them and you never see them again. Shieldbreaker is a sickness in PvP.

The problem is anyone stacking shields is still a pain in the ass to kill without shieldbreaker...

I don´t get why they don´t remove stacking shields altogether.

Because that would mess up PvE.

Derra

Lucky28 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

I hate this set so much. Zero skill, Zero Diversity and most the people who use this set just run away and log out when you try and target them and you never see them again. Shieldbreaker is a sickness in PvP.

The problem is anyone stacking shields is still a pain in the ass to kill without shieldbreaker...

I don´t get why they don´t remove stacking shields altogether.

Because that would mess up PvE.

What exactly apart from healing ward and that only on sorcs?

Silverminken

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

I hate this set so much. Zero skill, Zero Diversity and most the people who use this set just run away and log out when you try and target them and you never see them again. Shieldbreaker is a sickness in PvP.

The problem is anyone stacking shields is still a pain in the ass to kill without shieldbreaker...

I don´t get why they don´t remove stacking shields altogether.

And then we go on about those dogerolling Nightblades that eludes 5-10 people running around a rock or tree for a long time... They had to change a bit from being able to dodgeroll all the time...

Or those nightblades that uses cloak alot to avoid getting hit.

Or those templars that simply out heals your damage.

Or those wreckingblow spammers using shield breaker sets... trying to beat those being a magicka sorc is quite hard.


The list on what can be a pain in the ass to kill can be made rather long... so should we remove everything that makes it hard to kill someone?

Derra

Silverminken wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

I hate this set so much. Zero skill, Zero Diversity and most the people who use this set just run away and log out when you try and target them and you never see them again. Shieldbreaker is a sickness in PvP.

The problem is anyone stacking shields is still a pain in the ass to kill without shieldbreaker...

I don´t get why they don´t remove stacking shields altogether.

And then we go on about those dogerolling Nightblades that eludes 5-10 people running around a rock or tree for a long time... They had to change a bit from being able to dodgeroll all the time...

Or those nightblades that uses cloak alot to avoid getting hit.

Or those templars that simply out heals your damage.

Or those wreckingblow spammers using shield breaker sets... trying to beat those being a magicka sorc is quite hard.


The list on what can be a pain in the ass to kill can be made rather long... so should we remove everything that makes it hard to kill someone?

If one of those things makes you virtually unkillable unless you screw up bigtime i´m all in favor of adjusting that yep.

I main a sorc and well - being able to cast harness + hardenedward + healing ward on top of each other is just bs... There is no way i´m ever going to die against a magica build if i choose to run harness magica. That should not be the case (the problem being that one skill slotted basically hardcounters every magica build there is in 1v1).

Lucky28

Derra wrote: »

Silverminken wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

I hate this set so much. Zero skill, Zero Diversity and most the people who use this set just run away and log out when you try and target them and you never see them again. Shieldbreaker is a sickness in PvP.

The problem is anyone stacking shields is still a pain in the ass to kill without shieldbreaker...

I don´t get why they don´t remove stacking shields altogether.

And then we go on about those dogerolling Nightblades that eludes 5-10 people running around a rock or tree for a long time... They had to change a bit from being able to dodgeroll all the time...

Or those nightblades that uses cloak alot to avoid getting hit.

Or those templars that simply out heals your damage.

Or those wreckingblow spammers using shield breaker sets... trying to beat those being a magicka sorc is quite hard.


The list on what can be a pain in the ass to kill can be made rather long... so should we remove everything that makes it hard to kill someone?

If one of those things makes you virtually unkillable unless you screw up bigtime i´m all in favor of adjusting that yep.

I main a sorc and well - being able to cast harness + hardenedward + healing ward on top of each other is just bs... There is no way i´m ever going to die against a magica build if i choose to run harness magica. That should not be the case (the problem being that one skill slotted basically hardcounters every magica build there is in 1v1).

Healing is the problem in PvP. Not really wards. that's true in every game with heavy PvP i've played. In dark souls for example, i've had matches that lasted 30 - 40 minutes because of Estus and Humanity. however, in terms of ESO, i don't believe wards or heals need any form of adjustment. I've said this before, but this is a game where you can be in a group of 25+ other players, there are options.

MormondPayne_EP

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This is one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it is the only thing in the game that brings balance to shield recasting/stacking. Damage shield users are virtually unkillable in small scale combat outside of people using this set. This has created an uproar from (shield spammers) that expected to continue to be nearly invulnerable to damage, particularly sorcerrors who stack magicka as high as possible for both maximum damage and maximum damage shields.

That said, being a former sorcerror myself, I will tell you exactly how to counter this set. Countering this set does not make you immune to it, but it gives you a fair and balanced fight against a user of this set.

1. You need to have at least two heals outside of damage shields. I recommend rapid regen and either cleanse (purge) or combat prayer
2. Use immobilizes against melee using this set
3. Use line of sight against archers using this set
4. Dont stand out in the open and spam/stack shields and expect to be invulnerable like you used to be. Youre going to have to throw in CC, rolls, blocks, bolt escapes, and sprinting like every other class in addition to your shield.
5. Keep offensive pressure up

Good players will adapt and have balanced fights against shield breaker users. Players who are unable to adapt and continue to spam or stack shields with no other defensive manuevers are going to find that this tactic no longer works. Stop crying and learn 2 play, good luck

"...Being a former sorceror myself..." meaning I am just like 90% of other players out there who have rerolled an NB and are now rocking shield breaker...

Also, your advice amounts to "Use these terribly generic measures and hope to survive without armour or shields or a decent heal"...

Cool... back to the living under the bridge for you I'm afraid.

dRudE

Problem still is and always will be while pets are useless, sorcs have an entire useless skill line. Other classes have 1/3 extra skills they can chose from and combine into a rotation, we don't, we are pigeon holes into using the exact same build for every sorc, stack magicka, damage and use shields.

What if we could set our pets to ONLY go after certain classes or players using certain weapons like bows, or have a really tanky pet that intercepts bow damage for you.

I've been wishing since beta to have a tanky zombie pet, I think making it do low damage but have high HP, high phys and high spell resistance and the ability to intercept phys ranged damage(for a short while) would give magicka sorc that alternative build we so desperately need.

rfennell_ESO

Another shield breaker thread...

And shield breaker is still only useful as an execute versus 95% of sorcs.

The only other use for it is to panic them, force them to go defensive. Truth be told often I hold off on light attacks early so they don't know I use it so when they think they are invulnerable they can be executed.

The real problem is nearly any competent and geared sorc is nearly unkillable without shield breaker in any 1v1 encounter and most small scale fights.

Alucardo

I think the best counter to Shield Breaker was the introduction of better sets. Myself and a few others have migrated away from the one trick pony to greener pastures.
Hopefully you'll be seeing less of it from other people also.

Derra

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Another shield breaker thread...

And shield breaker is still only useful as an execute versus 95% of sorcs.

The only other use for it is to panic them, force them to go defensive. Truth be told often I hold off on light attacks early so they don't know I use it so when they think they are invulnerable they can be executed.

The real problem is nearly any competent and geared sorc is nearly unkillable without shield breaker in any 1v1 encounter and most small scale fights.

#removeshieldstacking?

Stacked shields are rediculous right now but shieldbreaker is just poor game design that punishes me more when i´m using only hardenedward when compared to using hardened + healing + harness. It does not make sense the way it´s currently implemented.

rfennell_ESO

Derra wrote: »

#removeshieldstacking?

Stacked shields are rediculous right now but shieldbreaker is just poor game design that punishes me more when i´m using only hardenedward when compared to using hardened + healing + harness. It does not make sense the way it´s currently implemented.

I don't think shield stacking is really the problem.

The fact that you can't crit them is.

I don't find shield breaker to be OP at all. It just doesn't add up to being as big of a deal as made out to be, it's not nearly represented in kills at a level it's even worth using (and in cyro it's useless).

I only find it worth having with annoying sorcs that try to reset when they get low by fleeing with healing ward up or when you get them low in combat and they try to shield stack to survive. The other use for it, like I said earlier, is to induce panic... and for that it's actually quite useful as a fair % of sorcerers will react to it defensively instead of offensively.

But to reiterate... uncrittable shield is the problem. Not shield stacking.

SemiD4rkness

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

@sabresandiego_ESO, you have no authority to speak as a sorc. You gave up your sorc in 1.6 and sold your soul to NB stam FOTM. Your only experience comes from an out-dated 2h/resto magic build that was killed by ZOS in 1.6. This is clearly a biased post. You have not played a magic sorcerer build in 1.6 meta enough, to warrant this assessment.




To balance this set, it needs either a cool-down, proc only on fully charged heavy attacks(why do other sets + molten armaments have to suffer from this treatment, while shield-breaker gets a free pass?) or change the way it handles damage shields entirely.


Spamming light attacks to completely destroy a sorc's only defense, while utterly destroying Templar and Dragonknight class shields + the utility of healing ward is absolutely absurd

80% of the people using this amazing set is just running around light attack spamming this crap. They dont use any other abilities just stay behind a group and light attack spam with a bow.

This game keeps getting watered down to easy buttons.

Zos your development team is truly incompetent if your solution to every single problem is nerf/easy buttons/bandAid fix.

L2p and adapt.

ToRelax

So many players who have a problem dealing with one playstyle just deciding it must be OP. With the few viable builds that are left, they all go on about strong classes, then randomly pick some mechanic from the discussion and claim it's the root of all evil.