Guide: How To Counter Shield Breaker

sabresandiego_ESO

This is one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it is the only thing in the game that brings balance to shield recasting/stacking. Damage shield users are virtually unkillable in small scale combat outside of people using this set. This has created an uproar from (shield spammers) that expected to continue to be nearly invulnerable to damage, particularly sorcerrors who stack magicka as high as possible for both maximum damage and maximum damage shields.

That said, being a former sorcerror myself, I will tell you exactly how to counter this set. Countering this set does not make you immune to it, but it gives you a fair and balanced fight against a user of this set.

1. You need to have at least two heals outside of damage shields. I recommend rapid regen and either cleanse (purge) or combat prayer
2. Use immobilizes against melee using this set
3. Use line of sight against archers using this set
4. Dont stand out in the open and spam/stack shields and expect to be invulnerable like you used to be. Youre going to have to throw in CC, rolls, blocks, bolt escapes, and sprinting like every other class in addition to your shield.
5. Keep offensive pressure up

Good players will adapt and have balanced fights against shield breaker users. Players who are unable to adapt and continue to spam or stack shields with no other defensive manuevers are going to find that this tactic no longer works. Stop crying and learn 2 play, good luck

BalticBlues

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This is one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it is the only thing in the game that brings balance to shield recasting/stacking. Good players will adapt [...] Stop crying and learn 2 play

Once ALL players will have the Shield Breaker set, the first time a helpful healer will cast a shield around you that does not protect you anymore but kill you (because you become a damage magnet), you will remember these words.

And then, after the Shield Breaker set turning shielded people into death targets, let's give us the Cloak Breaker set turning cloaked NBs into sitting ducks as well. "The Cloak Breaker set would be one of my favorite new sets in the game", because it would be "the only thing in the game that brings balance to cloak recasting" [...] "Cloaked users are virtually unkillable in small scale combat outside of people using this set". Good players will adapt [...] No more cloaking out of face-to-face battles. Finally fair fights. [...] "Stop crying and learn 2 play".

And then let's have more Class Breaker sets. What else can we think of?
How about a Heal Breaker set: Who wears this set turns healing speels into damage.
So the enemy is not healing but killing itself, as shields do now with the shield breaker set.
Imagine the fun. "Good players will adapt."

Lilarna

Everybody's only focused on Sorcs, but aren't DKs a seriously shield-oriented class ? It's starting to bug me, all this "sorc-cyring" mania.

eNumbra

BalticBlues wrote: »

14548"]let's also give us the Cloak Breaker set turning cloaked NBs into sitting ducks as well. The Cloak Breaker set would be one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it would the only thing in the game that brings balance to cloak recasting. Good players will adapt [...] No more cloaking out of face-to-face battles. Finally fair fights. [...] Stop crying NBs and learn 2 play.

Oh you mean:
Detect pots?
Sentry Set?
Radiant Magelight?
Any AOE?
Revealing Flare?

You could certainly add a Cloak Breaker set to the game, but 6 anti-cloak options vs 1 (5 piece set) anti-shield option: the scales still aren't balanced.

CP5

Lilarna wrote: »

Everybody's only focused on Sorcs, but aren't DKs a seriously shield-oriented class ? It's starting to bug me, all this "sorc-cyring" mania.

Oh no, dk's don't have a shield that is placed on allies while buffing their own healing, or an ultimate that's purpose is damage with a powerful shield, or another ultimate that lets allies get a shield. No no no. This is purely an anti sorcerer/shield stacker set and will in no way at all impact all the people who sparingly use shields as a means to buff themselves, protect themselves without being spammer, or wanting to burst heal off of templars.

(In all honesty yes, but so many people who love this set only care about getting revenge against shield stacking sorcerer's that anyone who says otherwise must be a sorc)

Lilarna

CP5 wrote: »

Oh no, dk's don't have a shield that is placed on allies while buffing their own healing, or an ultimate that's purpose is damage with a powerful shield, or another ultimate that lets allies get a shield. No no no.

Happy I'm not alone thinking this then

Especially with igneous shield and magma shell (or other morphs), come on, how to make two class skills become an actual threat to all your buddies !

Kas

quick siphon >>

Valencer

For sorcerers, it might also be time to consider not putting every single enchantment, attribute and set bonus into max magicka and instead adding some more health...

Yes, 2.6k spell damage and 35k max magicka is nice, but low health leaves you very little breathing room. Honestly, I think it's a good thing they added a set like this... maybe the number needs tweaking, but the idea is solid.

BalticBlues

Lilarna wrote: »

Everybody's only focused on Sorcs, but aren't DKs a seriously shield-oriented class ?

Exactly. Sorcs are affected most, because they mostly wear light armor and therefore are relying on shields (as NB are relying on cloaking), but DKs and Templars also are heavily effected by the Shield Breaker set.

In fact, it looks like mostly NBs are happy with the Shield Breaker set that probably was taylor-made for them. The funny thing is, many NBs are "crying" (as the OP said) for "a fair and balanced fight" - but they are the ones trying to avoid fair fights by all costs with cloaked ganking, and when they get a fair fight, they are the ones to cloak out of it when they are losing it. Playing NB means avoiding fair fights at all costs. This is ok, that's the way the class works, but then demanding fair fights from other people, whose primary means against cloaking is shielding, seems pretty hypocritical.

CP5

Lilarna wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Oh no, dk's don't have a shield that is placed on allies while buffing their own healing, or an ultimate that's purpose is damage with a powerful shield, or another ultimate that lets allies get a shield. No no no.

Happy I'm not alone thinking this then

Especially with igneous shield and magma shell (or other morphs), come on, how to make two class skills become an actual threat to all your buddies !

I'll have to double check this, but seeing as the damage done by the set ignores the battle spirit buff, I also think it would bypass magma armor, making the massive dr from that ultimate worthless if you gain a shield.

Valencer wrote: »

For sorcerers, it might also be time to consider not putting every single enchantment, attribute and set bonus into max magicka and instead adding some more health...

Yes, 2.6k spell damage and 35k max magicka is nice, but low health leaves you very little breathing room. Honestly, I think it's a good thing they added a set like this... maybe the number needs tweaking, but the idea is solid.

Despite all my post saying how I dislike this sets design I will say it is in my opinion ZOS's worst best idea. I like the power they gave to light attacks in a game dominated by stringing skills together as quickly as possible. But as a sorc I would love alternatives to using shields in combat to stay alive but as a class, what alternatives in class are there? So much of the class is dependent on large magicka pools or high spell power to make those expensive spells worth anything.

Also shields have a place in the game, non-stacked shields. Here are a few shields that were once life savers but with this set are now suicide to use. Healing ward on low health targets. The champion passives; Revival, shield on resurrection, Determination, shield when drinking a potion, Reinforced, a shield when you start blocking. Whitestrake's Retribution armor set, among others (Brands of Imperium, looking at you). Shields are to common and easy to mistakenly get to give this set a long run once it becomes popular enough.

ScruffyWhiskers

So when are we going to get the

+Magicka
+Magicka Recovery
+Spell Power

version of this set?

Valencer

Well, you have to remember Shield Breaker is a very specialised set. People using this set will have to give up another 5-piece bonus just to be able to have a hard counter against shields, which makes them less effective against people not relying on shields. For this reason, I wouldn't expect every medium armour user out there to switch to this set.

Maybe the number is too high (2k seems like a lot for easily spammed light attacks), but I haven't had too many issues on my own sorcerer with 29k/30k max magicka and 21.5k max health and I've ran into quite a few Shield Breaker users so far. The fact they have to give up a different 5-piece set bonus is noticeable.

Non-sorcerer shields are a completely different issue, but I still think it's not as bad as you're trying to make it sound. Sure, there's some absolutely bad shields out there (I'm looking at you, Determination champion passive) that will do you more harm than good against a Shield Breaker user but I'd argue that's more of an issue with those particular shields. Regarding Healing Ward.. it's a really powerful spell in small-scale combat and it can be a pain to kill a couple of people spamming this shield on each other. If someone wants to equip a special set to specifically counter that, more power to him.

Again, 2k irresistable damage is very very high and it should probably be toned down a bit, but I can definitely see the need for a specialised set like this.

CP5

Valencer wrote: »

Well, you have to remember Shield Breaker is a very specialised set. People using this set will have to give up another 5-piece bonus just to be able to have a hard counter against shields, which makes them less effective against people not relying on shields. For this reason, I wouldn't expect every medium armour user out there to switch to this set.

Maybe the number is too high (2k seems like a lot for easily spammed light attacks), but I haven't had too many issues on my own sorcerer with 29k/30k max magicka and 21.5k max health and I've ran into quite a few Shield Breaker users so far. The fact they have to give up a different 5-piece set bonus is noticeable.

Non-sorcerer shields are a completely different issue, but I still think it's not as bad as you're trying to make it sound. Sure, there's some absolutely bad shields out there (I'm looking at you, Determination champion passive) that will do you more harm than good against a Shield Breaker user but I'd argue that's more of an issue with those particular shields. Regarding Healing Ward.. it's a really powerful spell in small-scale combat and it can be a pain to kill a couple of people spamming this shield on each other. If someone wants to equip a special set to specifically counter that, more power to him.

Again, 2k irresistable damage is very very high and it should probably be toned down a bit, but I can definitely see the need for a specialised set like this.

If it ignores the battle spirit passive I would say its doing to much damage, unless all armor sets that deal damage are still doing full. Just think this set does to much with how many shields are floating around when only a handful ever cause any problems.

ToRelax

If anyone wants to actually show me in a duel on pts, how a magicka Sorc can survive against a good player with shieldbreaker... just tell me...

Mr_Nobody

ToRelax wrote: »

If anyone wants to actually show me in a duel on pts, how a magicka Sorc can survive against a good player with shieldbreaker... just tell me...

You should deal more damage than 2k/second and apply some hots on yourself. Oh, and i forgot to mention, dont apply magicka harness ~ Good luck.

This is damn funny to see most of the sorcs QQ about a set which makes them receive 2k unmitigated dps. Heal yourself!

You must feel like a templar in 1.6 ~ You no longer can face tank 3 enemies and continue dps, instead, you have to kite and kill them 1 by 1 ~ ~ ~ All that... shieldless!

Derra

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This is one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it is the only thing in the game that brings balance to shield recasting/stacking. Damage shield users are virtually unkillable in small scale combat outside of people using this set. This has created an uproar from (shield spammers) that expected to continue to be nearly invulnerable to damage, particularly sorcerrors who stack magicka as high as possible for both maximum damage and maximum damage shields.

That said, being a former sorcerror myself, I will tell you exactly how to counter this set. Countering this set does not make you immune to it, but it gives you a fair and balanced fight against a user of this set.

1. You need to have at least two heals outside of damage shields. I recommend rapid regen and either cleanse (purge) or combat prayer
2. Use immobilizes against melee using this set
3. Use line of sight against archers using this set
4. Dont stand out in the open and spam/stack shields and expect to be invulnerable like you used to be. Youre going to have to throw in CC, rolls, blocks, bolt escapes, and sprinting like every other class in addition to your shield.
5. Keep offensive pressure up

Good players will adapt and have balanced fights against shield breaker users. Players who are unable to adapt and continue to spam or stack shields with no other defensive manuevers are going to find that this tactic no longer works. Stop crying and learn 2 play, good luck

Absolute and utter nonsense.

It pidgeonholes the whole class into resto staff even more (for magica builds) because the class does not get any instant cast selfdefense apart from the shield. Try building a competetive sorcerer magica build without resto staff. Every class can do that now. Sorcs can not because of this crappy set.

It´s also broken against harness which triggers it without absorbing stamina attacks and it´s negating the only burstheal available to non templars.

Derra

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

So when are we going to get the

+Magicka
+Magicka Recovery
+Spell Power

version of this set?

I want this too. It´s bullcr*p making it stamina in the first place. Magica builds have far greater issues against shields (harness anyone) than stam builds.

BigTone

Derra wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This is one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it is the only thing in the game that brings balance to shield recasting/stacking. Damage shield users are virtually unkillable in small scale combat outside of people using this set. This has created an uproar from (shield spammers) that expected to continue to be nearly invulnerable to damage, particularly sorcerrors who stack magicka as high as possible for both maximum damage and maximum damage shields.

That said, being a former sorcerror myself, I will tell you exactly how to counter this set. Countering this set does not make you immune to it, but it gives you a fair and balanced fight against a user of this set.

1. You need to have at least two heals outside of damage shields. I recommend rapid regen and either cleanse (purge) or combat prayer
2. Use immobilizes against melee using this set
3. Use line of sight against archers using this set
4. Dont stand out in the open and spam/stack shields and expect to be invulnerable like you used to be. Youre going to have to throw in CC, rolls, blocks, bolt escapes, and sprinting like every other class in addition to your shield.
5. Keep offensive pressure up

Good players will adapt and have balanced fights against shield breaker users. Players who are unable to adapt and continue to spam or stack shields with no other defensive manuevers are going to find that this tactic no longer works. Stop crying and learn 2 play, good luck

Absolute and utter nonsense.

It pidgeonholes the whole class into resto staff even more (for magica builds) because the class does not get any instant cast selfdefense apart from the shield. Try building a competetive sorcerer magica build without resto staff. Every class can do that now. Sorcs can not because of this crappy set.

It´s also broken against harness which triggers it without absorbing stamina attacks and it´s negating the only burstheal available to non templars.

This is my biggest problem so far. I am happy with going no resto and relying on my health recovery and shields to keep me alive. If sorcs had a reliable class heal that would certainly make this more balanced.

revonine

WHY is this set medium armor only? other magicka users have the most trouble against shield stackers

ToRelax

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

If anyone wants to actually show me in a duel on pts, how a magicka Sorc can survive against a good player with shieldbreaker... just tell me...

You should deal more damage than 2k/second and apply some hots on yourself. Oh, and i forgot to mention, dont apply magicka harness ~ Good luck.

This is damn funny to see most of the sorcs QQ about a set which makes them receive 2k unmitigated dps. Heal yourself!

You must feel like a templar in 1.6 ~ You no longer can face tank 3 enemies and continue dps, instead, you have to kite and kill them 1 by 1 ~ ~ ~ All that... shieldless!

That sounds easy. Show me in a duel then.
Before you answer like that again I'd like to make sure to have said that I think I know the set and what to do against it very well. So if you want to teach me anything, fight me as a magicka Sorc.

phaseadept

I play a Templar, cmon guys toughen up.

I can certainly see how 2k damage is a threat if you are running around with zero attribut points in health and zero health enchantments. . . but isn't that the point?

One trick pony gets beat by one trick pony.

Also: shield breaker needs another thread. . .

Sorcerers are a pain to fight because they have the ability to CC, perform high DPS, and have really high tanking ability with an escape utility.

Think of the shield breaker set as a reason to not get pigeonholed into running a cookie-cutter build and come back to theorycrafting.

Personally I get sorcerers confused because they seem to all use the same abilities and wear the same armor. Attack of the clones I swear.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Lilarna wrote: »

Everybody's only focused on Sorcs, but aren't DKs a seriously shield-oriented class ? It's starting to bug me, all this "sorc-cyring" mania.

You do know DKs are nearly dead in PvP right ? The only DKs you are seeing are most likely the ones who are using the "infa tank" build which honestly should have never been invented or made. Gave DKs a bad rep and gave us a year worth of nerfs.

Lord_Hev

@sabresandiego_ESO, you have no authority to speak as a sorc. You gave up your sorc in 1.6 and sold your soul to NB stam FOTM. Your only experience comes from an out-dated 2h/resto magic build that was killed by ZOS in 1.6. This is clearly a biased post. You have not played a magic sorcerer build in 1.6 meta enough, to warrant this assessment.




To balance this set, it needs either a cool-down, proc only on fully charged heavy attacks(why do other sets + molten armaments have to suffer from this treatment, while shield-breaker gets a free pass?) or change the way it handles damage shields entirely.


Spamming light attacks to completely destroy a sorc's only defense, while utterly destroying Templar and Dragonknight class shields + the utility of healing ward is absolutely absurd

BalticBlues

Valencer wrote: »

Spamming light attacks to completely destroy a sorc's only defense, while utterly destroying Templar and Dragonknight class shields + the utility of healing ward is absolutely absurd

This. The Shield Breaker set is able to destroy PVP as we know it.

Shields and Cloaks form two sides of balancing.
They are essential to their classes, balancing each other out.

Nerfing shields into the ground without nerfing cloaks will kill the balance in this game.
DKs already seem to die out. Are sorcs the next class for extinction?

Derra

phaseadept wrote: »

I play a Templar, cmon guys toughen up.

I can certainly see how 2k damage is a threat if you are running around with zero attribut points in health and zero health enchantments. . . but isn't that the point?

One trick pony gets beat by one trick pony.

Also: shield breaker needs another thread. . .

Sorcerers are a pain to fight because they have the ability to CC, perform high DPS, and have really high tanking ability with an escape utility.

Think of the shield breaker set as a reason to not get pigeonholed into running a cookie-cutter build and come back to theorycrafting.

Personally I get sorcerers confused because they seem to all use the same abilities and wear the same armor. Attack of the clones I swear.

This is a whole different issue. You clearly don´t know the sorcerer class bc if you did you´d know that the class is basically running one build because there are so few alternatives.

The class does not have any vaible selfheals whatsoever thus is forced to use their classshield instead. This happens to synergise really well with resto staff healing ward shield. Harness WAS a nobrainer for any magica build.

The class does not get an instant cast anytime direct damaging ability. Therefor sorcerers are forced to run a destro staff for crushing shock to get one.

The result of these two things is every sorc running the same builds since about patch 1.3. There are no alternatives. It has nothing to do with back to the drawing board. There is a limited amount of skills available and if you don´t want to run pets you have basically one vaible build for the whole class.

You´re clearly talking about things you don´t know enough about to form a reasoned opinion.

Sharee

BalticBlues wrote: »

Once ALL players will have the Shield Breaker set, the first time a helpful healer will cast a shield around you that does not protect you anymore but kill you (because you become a damage magnet), you will remember these words.

A low health target is a damage magnet regardless of whether he has a shield around himself or not.

And if you are not low health, then you will get hit by a light attack that will be absorbed by the shield, and a shieldbreaker proc for 2K. Without that shield, you would get hit for 2K by the light attack instead. It's a wash.

This set is only an issue for sorcs running around with minimal hitpoints hiding behind huge shields. For everyone else, 2k damage tickles.

Kupoking

Seen a nb with shield braker arrange a duel with a sorc. Both were good players. Fight wasnt one sided at all ut then again the sorc was playing smart.

Jar_Ek

Technically it is an issue for any low health, low resistance build that relies on shields - just magicka sorcerers are the most common build that uses this setup...

Angarato

perspective from a pretty new player (v5 atm) stamblade with shieldbreaker. i fought a bunch of sorcs and you can clearly tell the difference between a good and a bad one. bad ones just stand there casting stuff on you not defending themselves with anything but shields. i guess this used to work last patch? good ones tho are very mobile and do ALOT of damage.

was fighting one all over the district doing good shieldbreaker damage but not quite enough to kill him while he was bolting around. then he laid his burst combo on me and we fought some more but he eventually got me. the amount of damage he could do in a 5 second window was absurd. the only way i got him low aswell was because of shield breaker. if i didnt have it he would be full health after a 2-3 minute fight of me constantly attacking/ccing him with everything i had.

they could have solved this issue better i agree. but until they do i'd have no chance to ever kill anyone stacking shields in a 1v1 fight without this set. and im sure all you sorcs out there know this.

BalticBlues

Angarato wrote: »

perspective from a pretty new player (v5 atm)
[...]the amount of damage he could do in a 5 second window was absurd.
[...]he would be full health after a 2-3 minute fight of me constantly attacking/ccing him with everything i had.
[...]i'd have no chance to ever kill anyone

This usually happens for new players meeting a vet with hundreds of CPs.
What kills balance in PVP are the CPs, not shield stacking.

My daughter also is a pretty new player (v2 sorc).
She is excellent in PVP, in non-vet campaigns she played in the Top 10 without shield stacking.
Now in vet campaigns, playing v2 without shield stacking against V14 players is way too risky.

Sorcs have been fooled twice by ZOS.
1. Their pets already are useless in PVP, reducing playability a variability a lot.
2. When their shields now also will become useless, the class may be dead.

Digiman

Thought I would clarify a few things for those happy about Shield breaker:

1. The set was designed after ZoS made Light Armor weak as Tissue paper, 1/4 Heavy armor Because of that Shield stacking was the only way to live as a MAGICKA SORCERER.

2. Sorcerers don't have a dedicated self heal or a sustain DPS method. It's burst set up, Shield stacking helped set this up.

3. Our abilites have been a hodgepodge of other wacky effects and hidden cool downs. Clannefear giving a 35% max heal when desummoned!?

4. Wearing the Shield breaker set doesn't gimp the player, there are addons where players can change outfits out of combat at the click of button and seeing as Sorcerer will always need shields up when they know they are in combat make them bright KILL ME SIGNS

Essentially Shield breaker set is the devs way of punishing magicka sorcerers who were forced to stack shield to survive while wearing 5 piece light armor because they made LIGHT ARMOR 1/4 THE DEFENSE AS HEAVY.

The only way for this mess to be fixed is to make Light armor more defensive for sorcerers, give them a proper method to heal through magicka after that ZoS can effectively change shields without worrying about breaking the class.

Right now it's better for a Sorcerer to go Stamina then Magicka.