Guide: How To Counter Shield Breaker

RinaldoGandolphi

The Shield Breaker set is just poor design. I roll Templar mostly now because im sick of my Sorc, but i ran into a few folks using it the last few days of the PTS and had no trouble dealing with them, but i do use more then Healing Ward from the Resto Staff Tree.

At worst they should probably make it obvious your being hit by it by making your damage shield change colors in some way so its obvious your being hit through your shield i suppose.

phaseadept

Derra wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

I play a Templar, cmon guys toughen up.

I can certainly see how 2k damage is a threat if you are running around with zero attribut points in health and zero health enchantments. . . but isn't that the point?

One trick pony gets beat by one trick pony.

Also: shield breaker needs another thread. . .

Sorcerers are a pain to fight because they have the ability to CC, perform high DPS, and have really high tanking ability with an escape utility.

Think of the shield breaker set as a reason to not get pigeonholed into running a cookie-cutter build and come back to theorycrafting.

Personally I get sorcerers confused because they seem to all use the same abilities and wear the same armor. Attack of the clones I swear.

This is a whole different issue. You clearly don´t know the sorcerer class bc if you did you´d know that the class is basically running one build because there are so few alternatives.

The class does not have any vaible selfheals whatsoever thus is forced to use their classshield instead. This happens to synergise really well with resto staff healing ward shield. Harness WAS a nobrainer for any magica build.

The class does not get an instant cast anytime direct damaging ability. Therefor sorcerers are forced to run a destro staff for crushing shock to get one.

The result of these two things is every sorc running the same builds since about patch 1.3. There are no alternatives. It has nothing to do with back to the drawing board. There is a limited amount of skills available and if you don´t want to run pets you have basically one vaible build for the whole class.

You´re clearly talking about things you don´t know enough about to form a reasoned opinion.

In your rush to claim I don't know anything about the sorcerer class, I will slowly state my point:

The shield breaker set will encourage more variety in sorcerer builds.

That being said, I have never in my MMO experience seen a high DPS class this tanky. . . usually it's a trade off: high burst low survivability relying on escape, high sustain low survivability relying on CC. This good at everything complaining about a situational counter is new.

BalticBlues

phaseadept wrote: »

The shield breaker set will encourage more variety in sorcerer builds.

And how exactly? Sorc's pets already are useless in PVP. You don't see them anymore.
Sorc's shields now become not only useless but even contra-productive because of the SB set.

Reducing option after option leaves less options instead of "variety".
Without viable options, Sorcs as such will become useless.

Almost naked in light armor, without pets or shields as protection,
the "variety" Sorcs then have is to roll another class...

Dyride

Digiman wrote: »

1. The set was designed after ZoS made Light Armor weak as Tissue paper, 1/4 Heavy armor Because of that Shield stacking was the only way to live as a MAGICKA SORCERER.

Light armor now gives 1/2 the armor as heavy. Also the decreased damage greatly increases the value of more health.

Digiman wrote: »

2. Sorcerers don't have a dedicated self heal or a sustain DPS method. It's burst set up, Shield stacking helped set this up.

Surge is good now, did you hear?

CP5

phaseadept wrote: »

I play a Templar, cmon guys toughen up.

I can certainly see how 2k damage is a threat if you are running around with zero attribut points in health and zero health enchantments. . . but isn't that the point?

One trick pony gets beat by one trick pony.

Also: shield breaker needs another thread. . .

Sorcerers are a pain to fight because they have the ability to CC, perform high DPS, and have really high tanking ability with an escape utility.

Think of the shield breaker set as a reason to not get pigeonholed into running a cookie-cutter build and come back to theorycrafting.

Personally I get sorcerers confused because they seem to all use the same abilities and wear the same armor. Attack of the clones I swear.

How do players "not get pigeonholed" when we don't control what options are viable? Sorcerer's as a class only really have burst as 'their thing' and the popular builds would jump in, burst targets, then run away. What are the classes alternatives? Pets, class heals, flat out durability? What options do sorc's of all types have to run something other than the cookie-cutter meta that don't end up gimping themselves or being irritated to use?

Waffennacht

CP5 wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

I play a Templar, cmon guys toughen up.

I can certainly see how 2k damage is a threat if you are running around with zero attribut points in health and zero health enchantments. . . but isn't that the point?

One trick pony gets beat by one trick pony.

Also: shield breaker needs another thread. . .

Sorcerers are a pain to fight because they have the ability to CC, perform high DPS, and have really high tanking ability with an escape utility.

Think of the shield breaker set as a reason to not get pigeonholed into running a cookie-cutter build and come back to theorycrafting.

Personally I get sorcerers confused because they seem to all use the same abilities and wear the same armor. Attack of the clones I swear.

How do players "not get pigeonholed" when we don't control what options are viable? Sorcerer's as a class only really have burst as 'their thing' and the popular builds would jump in, burst targets, then run away. What are the classes alternatives? Pets, class heals, flat out durability? What options do sorc's of all types have to run something other than the cookie-cutter meta that don't end up gimping themselves or being irritated to use?

Absolutely agree! It makes us LESS varried. NOW it seems we HAVE to go Mad DPS build to be as viable.

I heard one say that the sorc with bolt and mad dps did really well... well no shiz, that build has always been doing well. Now the less DPS survival types will have to go without shield (or less there of) with no self heal.

MTG would never print a card that specifically nerfs one other card. They balance it correctly. Never before have I heard of anything so specifically designed against one other mechanic.

It would be like a spell that caused all heals to be reduced by half against a temp. Or an armor that prevets 50% of damage coming from stealth (hey not a bad idea right there...)

Its only balanced if they make a set designed against each class.

Kupoking

Digiman wrote: »

Thought I would clarify a few things for those happy about Shield breaker:

1. The set was designed after ZoS made Light Armor weak as Tissue paper, 1/4 Heavy armor Because of that Shield stacking was the only way to live as a MAGICKA SORCERER.

2. Sorcerers don't have a dedicated self heal or a sustain DPS method. It's burst set up, Shield stacking helped set this up.

3. Our abilites have been a hodgepodge of other wacky effects and hidden cool downs. Clannefear giving a 35% max heal when desummoned!?

4. Wearing the Shield breaker set doesn't gimp the player, there are addons where players can change outfits out of combat at the click of button and seeing as Sorcerer will always need shields up when they know they are in combat make them bright KILL ME SIGNS

Essentially Shield breaker set is the devs way of punishing magicka sorcerers who were forced to stack shield to survive while wearing 5 piece light armor because they made LIGHT ARMOR 1/4 THE DEFENSE AS HEAVY.

The only way for this mess to be fixed is to make Light armor more defensive for sorcerers, give them a proper method to heal through magicka after that ZoS can effectively change shields without worrying about breaking the class.

Right now it's better for a Sorcerer to go Stamina then Magicka.

On the other hand:

Sorcs has amazing mobility
Sorcs has many CC options
Sorcs has the best burst in game for magika builds
Vs any other build, sorcs can build as a glass cannon and be extremely endurant. He can equip 1 defensive set and be more endurant than most tanks wbile still having good sustain and high burst.

Plus they have crystal frag that deals extreme dmg, long cc, can be instant, is ranged and heals you.

CP5

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Thought I would clarify a few things for those happy about Shield breaker:

1. The set was designed after ZoS made Light Armor weak as Tissue paper, 1/4 Heavy armor Because of that Shield stacking was the only way to live as a MAGICKA SORCERER.

2. Sorcerers don't have a dedicated self heal or a sustain DPS method. It's burst set up, Shield stacking helped set this up.

3. Our abilites have been a hodgepodge of other wacky effects and hidden cool downs. Clannefear giving a 35% max heal when desummoned!?

4. Wearing the Shield breaker set doesn't gimp the player, there are addons where players can change outfits out of combat at the click of button and seeing as Sorcerer will always need shields up when they know they are in combat make them bright KILL ME SIGNS

Essentially Shield breaker set is the devs way of punishing magicka sorcerers who were forced to stack shield to survive while wearing 5 piece light armor because they made LIGHT ARMOR 1/4 THE DEFENSE AS HEAVY.

The only way for this mess to be fixed is to make Light armor more defensive for sorcerers, give them a proper method to heal through magicka after that ZoS can effectively change shields without worrying about breaking the class.

Right now it's better for a Sorcerer to go Stamina then Magicka.

On the other hand:

Sorcs has amazing mobility Only if they build heavily for it, see any stamina sorcs taking advantage of that amazing mobility?
Sorcs has many CC options Storm Atronach stun, Volatile Familiar explosion, Negate (silence), Shards knockdown, Encase's root, runes stun, mines root, and bolt escape's very short stun, sure they have a range but are any as 'memorable' as early talons spam, or nb's fear spam? Quality and quantity are two different things.
Sorcs has the best burst in game for magika builds And that's their strength while they lack in the sustained damage department, they have to be good at that.
Vs any other build, sorcs can build as a glass cannon and be extremely endurant. He can equip 1 defensive set and be more endurant than most tanks wbile still having good sustain and high burst. In game there is no 'stay back and avoid damage' unless you are physically out of reach on a keep wall exc. A sorc that has many defenses on their bars is durable for a caster, but again most builds can be durable when paying to their strengths.

Plus they have crystal frag that deals extreme dmg, long cc, can be instant, is ranged and heals you.And is very easy to spot, to the point where I look forward to it with a nice quick reflect, or just a casual block.

BigTone

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Thought I would clarify a few things for those happy about Shield breaker:

1. The set was designed after ZoS made Light Armor weak as Tissue paper, 1/4 Heavy armor Because of that Shield stacking was the only way to live as a MAGICKA SORCERER.

2. Sorcerers don't have a dedicated self heal or a sustain DPS method. It's burst set up, Shield stacking helped set this up.

3. Our abilites have been a hodgepodge of other wacky effects and hidden cool downs. Clannefear giving a 35% max heal when desummoned!?

4. Wearing the Shield breaker set doesn't gimp the player, there are addons where players can change outfits out of combat at the click of button and seeing as Sorcerer will always need shields up when they know they are in combat make them bright KILL ME SIGNS

Essentially Shield breaker set is the devs way of punishing magicka sorcerers who were forced to stack shield to survive while wearing 5 piece light armor because they made LIGHT ARMOR 1/4 THE DEFENSE AS HEAVY.

The only way for this mess to be fixed is to make Light armor more defensive for sorcerers, give them a proper method to heal through magicka after that ZoS can effectively change shields without worrying about breaking the class.

Right now it's better for a Sorcerer to go Stamina then Magicka.

On the other hand:

Sorcs has amazing mobility Which has been nerfed, and is no where near as useful as a magicka NB
Sorcs has many CC options None compare to talons or the many NB CC
Sorcs has the best burst in game for magika builds NB
Vs any other build, sorcs can build as a glass cannon and be extremely endurant. He can equip 1 defensive set and be more endurant than most tanks wbile still having good sustain and high burst.

Plus they have crystal frag that deals extreme dmg, long cc, can be instant, is ranged and heals you. The heal is incredibly small

phaseadept

BalticBlues wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

The shield breaker set will encourage more variety in sorcerer builds.

And how exactly? Sorc's pets already are useless in PVP. You don't see them anymore.
Sorc's shields now become not only useless but even contra-productive because of the SB set.

Reducing option after option leaves less options instead of "variety".
Without viable options, Sorcs as such will become useless.

Almost naked in light armor, without pets or shields as protection,
the "variety" Sorcs then have is to roll another class...

I don't know, with all the changes made there's some theorycrafting to be done. Cookie cutter builds will be out for people to copy/pasta soon.

phaseadept

CP5 wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

I play a Templar, cmon guys toughen up.

I can certainly see how 2k damage is a threat if you are running around with zero attribut points in health and zero health enchantments. . . but isn't that the point?

One trick pony gets beat by one trick pony.

Also: shield breaker needs another thread. . .

Sorcerers are a pain to fight because they have the ability to CC, perform high DPS, and have really high tanking ability with an escape utility.

Think of the shield breaker set as a reason to not get pigeonholed into running a cookie-cutter build and come back to theorycrafting.

Personally I get sorcerers confused because they seem to all use the same abilities and wear the same armor. Attack of the clones I swear.

How do players "not get pigeonholed" when we don't control what options are viable? Sorcerer's as a class only really have burst as 'their thing' and the popular builds would jump in, burst targets, then run away. What are the classes alternatives? Pets, class heals, flat out durability? What options do sorc's of all types have to run something other than the cookie-cutter meta that don't end up gimping themselves or being irritated to use?

I don't know, that's why you play test and craft builds as the game changes instead of relying on the same one. The meta has changed, new builds will be forthcoming if people try.

phaseadept

Waffennacht wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

I play a Templar, cmon guys toughen up.

I can certainly see how 2k damage is a threat if you are running around with zero attribut points in health and zero health enchantments. . . but isn't that the point?

One trick pony gets beat by one trick pony.

Also: shield breaker needs another thread. . .

Sorcerers are a pain to fight because they have the ability to CC, perform high DPS, and have really high tanking ability with an escape utility.

Think of the shield breaker set as a reason to not get pigeonholed into running a cookie-cutter build and come back to theorycrafting.

Personally I get sorcerers confused because they seem to all use the same abilities and wear the same armor. Attack of the clones I swear.

How do players "not get pigeonholed" when we don't control what options are viable? Sorcerer's as a class only really have burst as 'their thing' and the popular builds would jump in, burst targets, then run away. What are the classes alternatives? Pets, class heals, flat out durability? What options do sorc's of all types have to run something other than the cookie-cutter meta that don't end up gimping themselves or being irritated to use?

Absolutely agree! It makes us LESS varried. NOW it seems we HAVE to go Mad DPS build to be as viable.

I heard one say that the sorc with bolt and mad dps did really well... well no shiz, that build has always been doing well. Now the less DPS survival types will have to go without shield (or less there of) with no self heal.

MTG would never print a card that specifically nerfs one other card. They balance it correctly. Never before have I heard of anything so specifically designed against one other mechanic.

It would be like a spell that caused all heals to be reduced by half against a temp. Or an armor that prevets 50% of damage coming from stealth (hey not a bad idea right there...)

Its only balanced if they make a set designed against each class.

radiant magelight?

Scyantific

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Thought I would clarify a few things for those happy about Shield breaker:

1. The set was designed after ZoS made Light Armor weak as Tissue paper, 1/4 Heavy armor Because of that Shield stacking was the only way to live as a MAGICKA SORCERER.

2. Sorcerers don't have a dedicated self heal or a sustain DPS method. It's burst set up, Shield stacking helped set this up.

3. Our abilites have been a hodgepodge of other wacky effects and hidden cool downs. Clannefear giving a 35% max heal when desummoned!?

4. Wearing the Shield breaker set doesn't gimp the player, there are addons where players can change outfits out of combat at the click of button and seeing as Sorcerer will always need shields up when they know they are in combat make them bright KILL ME SIGNS

Essentially Shield breaker set is the devs way of punishing magicka sorcerers who were forced to stack shield to survive while wearing 5 piece light armor because they made LIGHT ARMOR 1/4 THE DEFENSE AS HEAVY.

The only way for this mess to be fixed is to make Light armor more defensive for sorcerers, give them a proper method to heal through magicka after that ZoS can effectively change shields without worrying about breaking the class.

Right now it's better for a Sorcerer to go Stamina then Magicka.

On the other hand:

Sorcs has amazing mobility
Sorcs has many CC options
Sorcs has the best burst in game for magika builds
Vs any other build, sorcs can build as a glass cannon and be extremely endurant. He can equip 1 defensive set and be more endurant than most tanks wbile still having good sustain and high burst.

Plus they have crystal frag that deals extreme dmg, long cc, can be instant, is ranged and heals you.

BE got nerfed. Can't just spam it anymore.
lol CC? Rune Prison and Frags are broken out of easy & can't be used to CC again for at least 3 seconds. No one uses Encase because dodge roll, everyone just rolls Daedric Minefield for the additional damage.
Tell me ONE defensive set that we can use that still allows us to deal the "good sustain and burst" that you speak of.

phaseadept

@Scyantific

I'm curious, are other classes without shield breaker face rolling you? How often are you losing to people in a 1v1 or 1v2 situation that aren't using shield breaker? Is it a lot?

I ask, because based on some videos I've seen sorcs only have to worry about shield breaker + bow

Scyantific

phaseadept wrote: »

@Scyantific

I'm curious, are other classes without shield breaker face rolling you? How often are you losing to people in a 1v1 or 1v2 situation that aren't using shield breaker? Is it a lot?

I ask, because based on some videos I've seen sorcs only have to worry about shield breaker + bow

A straight up faceroll? Not very often, but I tend to struggle past 1v2. Not because I suck, but because I don't really see the effort in trying to nuke down 3 people.

ToRelax

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs has the best burst in game for magika builds

Assassin's Will.

Dr_Ganknstein

Like OMG I they can't spam shields and fly around the map killing people because of one armor set's 5 piece bonus. I'm pretty sure all classes have access to all armor types and you are allowed to put points into other attribute other then magica. Yall have been playing the same build so long you forgot how to play. Adapt or fail and fade away, you had a good fotm run, sorry for your loss.


lol.

phaseadept

Scyantific wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

@Scyantific

I'm curious, are other classes without shield breaker face rolling you? How often are you losing to people in a 1v1 or 1v2 situation that aren't using shield breaker? Is it a lot?

I ask, because based on some videos I've seen sorcs only have to worry about shield breaker + bow

A straight up faceroll? Not very often, but I tend to struggle past 1v2. Not because I suck, but because I don't really see the effort in trying to nuke down 3 people.

Thanks for your answer. I know the new set is a hard counter, but I'm wondering how much it's actually affecting overall gameplay.

FriedEggSandwich

Kas wrote: »

quick siphon >>

Quick Siphon returns 450hp per hit and stops healing you when you have to be defensive. In all honesty crit surge is more reliable as a heal in that respect. Actually the most effective way to deal with this set is to carry an offensive heal like quick siphon or surge aswel as a bigger heal like springs.

k2blader

Does the shield breaker set result in a sorc's health going down even if he has shields up as light attacks entirely ignore all shields?

I didn't play on the PTS so am having a bit of difficulty determining what exactly is the effect.

ToRelax

k2blader wrote: »

Does the shield breaker set result in a sorc's health going down even if he has shields up as light attacks entirely ignore all shields?

I didn't play on the PTS so am having a bit of difficulty determining what exactly is the effect.

It deals, scaling only on item level and quality (2150 on legendary v16), unresistable damage on the enemy's health pool whenever a damage shield is hit by a normal attack.

k2blader

ToRelax wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Does the shield breaker set result in a sorc's health going down even if he has shields up as light attacks entirely ignore all shields?

I didn't play on the PTS so am having a bit of difficulty determining what exactly is the effect.

It deals, scaling only on item level and quality (2150 on legendary v16), unresistable damage on the enemy's health pool whenever a damage shield is hit by a normal attack.

Thanks. I must've run into this in that I had shields up but my health was going down and healing ward wasn't "working right." heh

With one NB it ended at a standoff, probably because we're both magicka builds. Another time I ran around trying to break LoS but I was dead fast. It's not hard to hit a fleeing enemy with normal attacks.

So.. against this set I guess I need a "very hard heal" (lol) and/or to "nuke" the enemy faster than he can normal attack me. Oh, and hope that it's just one shield breaker wearer on me.

BrassRazoo

eNumbra wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

14548"]let's also give us the Cloak Breaker set turning cloaked NBs into sitting ducks as well. The Cloak Breaker set would be one of my favorite new sets in the game, because it would the only thing in the game that brings balance to cloak recasting. Good players will adapt [...] No more cloaking out of face-to-face battles. Finally fair fights. [...] Stop crying NBs and learn 2 play.

Oh you mean:
Detect pots?
Sentry Set?
Radiant Magelight?
Any AOE?
Revealing Flare?

You could certainly add a Cloak Breaker set to the game, but 6 anti-cloak options vs 1 (5 piece set) anti-shield option: the scales still aren't balanced.

Oh you mean:
Detect pots? = Useless
Sentry Set?
Radiant Magelight? = Useless
Any AOE? = Useless
Revealing Flare? = Useless

phaseadept

^^ those aren't useless

Aunatar

Sentry set, are you SERIOUS?
When will Nightblades stop crying on this forum? It's time to stop it guys

eNumbra

When everyone else stops attacking Nightblades like they're *** Daedric princes compared to everyone else, we'll stop defending ourselves with facts.

ToRelax

eNumbra wrote: »

When everyone else stops attacking Nightblades like they're *** Daedric princes compared to everyone else, we'll stop defending ourselves with facts.

Well at least it is like attacking a Deadric Prince...

iTzStevey

I personally think it should just give bonus damage to actual shields,like a "SHIELD" breaker set should, instead of it being a "Break anyone using shields set"

thelordoffelines

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

. Damage shield users are virtually unkillable in small scale combat outside of people using this set.

I have no problem killing shield stackers on my dk sorc or nb and none of them are using shield breaker.

NinjaApacHe

Sorc go stamina build and start playing for real. Shield stacking era is over.