How to counter Templar healing.

iTzStevey

Okay so me and a friend was fighting 5 people, 3 of them templars. The other two died easily but the templars just pressed one button and *Boop* full health in 0.5 seconds. You can't stop them from healing by bashing, which is stupid imo. So what I'm asking is how do you counters this? Bashing doesn't work, knockdowns/CC doesn't work, so im at a loss. Any help is appreciated

nothing2591

this is indeed the only problem with pvp right now, damn templars pressing 1 button to heal 3 ppl to max heal faster than what my 14k surprise attacks can dps them down.

If you are a nightblade then soulharvest will give them 30% healing reduction and you kinda need 2 wrecking blow spammers to kill a GOOD templar even in a 5v5 type of situation if i had it my way breath of life would be a single target heal or not heal like a damn healing ward but with low cost and 3 targets lol

Ffastyl

Major Defile
CC
A lot more damage

The primary ways to counter healing tanks. Major Defile reduces healing received by 30%. Stunning, knocking down, disorienting a healing tank will prevent them from hitting that one-heal-for-all button for a couple crucial seconds. Or you can just up the damage and pressure so high you out damage their healing.

GilGalad

Use desease dmg enchants on your weapons or meat bag catapults on them. Both apply a healing rebuff on the enemy, so they will receive less healings. There are some abilities, that also provide some healing debuffs like one of the snipe morphs.
Usually desease enchants are the easiest way of fight them.

Vatter

iTzStevey wrote: »

Okay so me and a friend was fighting 5 people, 3 of them templars. The other two died easily but the templars just pressed one button and *Boop* full health in 0.5 seconds. You can't stop them from healing by bashing, which is stupid imo. So what I'm asking is how do you counters this? Bashing doesn't work, knockdowns/CC doesn't work, so im at a loss. Any help is appreciated

ummm..... you do realize that when a templar is just pressing 1 button he is putting out 0 dps right? all he is doing is being your punching bag. enjoy it

Pobeda

It is impossible how it describe. Templar healing maximum can heal half of hp (about 10k +-). And others get lesser healing. When you see someone "incredibly" healed to full hp for 0.5 second - you can bet anything to win - couse it was rally long proc. It mean it STAMINA skill. 2h, NOT TEMPLAR HEALING.
Templars skills healing in pvp lesser then dps. I know some super pve templars can get to 15k healing and more - but they lost everything - they weak, no damage and so on. And on pvp their healing cutted to 33% - so it again 10k healing +-. Ofcourse it can be critical and healing most full hp. But again HOW you describe - he long time healing themself to full hp - it is impossible - couse in healing spec it can maximum has about 33% crit chance - it mean every 3 second spaming he can only healing.
And again if CC not working - it mean his healing low. And I bet again that was 2 stamina templars.
And lastly - templars worst resource manegers. If he just spam - he lost his mana and mostly can`t restore it. As stamina (all other classes can very profitable restore resourses).

ThyIronFist

CC

CatchMeTrolling

Pobeda wrote: »

It is impossible how it describe. Templar healing maximum can heal half of hp (about 10k +-). And others get lesser healing. When you see someone "incredibly" healed to full hp for 0.5 second - you can bet anything to win - couse it was rally long proc. It mean it STAMINA skill. 2h, NOT TEMPLAR HEALING.
Templars skills healing in pvp lesser then dps. I know some super pve templars can get to 15k healing and more - but they lost everything - they weak, no damage and so on. And on pvp their healing cutted to 33% - so it again 10k healing +-. Ofcourse it can be critical and healing most full hp. But again HOW you describe - he long time healing themself to full hp - it is impossible - couse in healing spec it can maximum has about 33% crit chance - it mean every 3 second spaming he can only healing.
And again if CC not working - it mean his healing low. And I bet again that was 2 stamina templars.
And lastly - templars worst resource manegers. If he just spam - he lost his mana and mostly can`t restore it. As stamina (all other classes can very profitable restore resourses).

With the right build you can indeed just spam heals, one heal can get someone to full health easily especially with certain passives and champion point builds. Do it all the time when I actually decide to heal, probably why they're nerfing healing

Cinbri

5-men group with 3 templars?! Don't see it as a big problem as such group called "no-damage group".

iTzStevey

Thanks for the replies! There was three templars and they were all using that bloody prayer thing + breathe of life spam, their dps was shockingly poor yes, but the fight got boring after 15 minutes are there any healing debuffs available to sorcs apart from the meat bags? I dont think pulling out a catapult mid fight is a good idea haha.

Kas

if you have attacks with major defile, they'll need to cast purifying ritual pretty often to cleanse themselves. further, you can just fight their stamina pool (make them CC break / dodge often. some templar will also block but cannot do so really long. With 5 heavy, 2+ blockcostreduce glyphs and 70+ block cost champion points, you can block for a long, long time, though. Especially against sorcs who don't have as many stamina drainers as nightblades and maybe other templars using sweeps/jabs). once empty and dodge/block/break free are no longer an option, you should easily have enough damage to kill them even though two others spamming heals.

worst thing you can do is not focus and/or switch targets too often. switches may be good to locate the target playing the squishiest build. but switching every 30sec simply because your current target has not died, is the wrost thng you can do. full health does not mean full resources, giving them time to recover does. further other templars cannot (not really, repentance et al) heal stam/mag. Only health. Thus fight their other resource pools, health will drop eventually.

sorcs healing debuffs: disease enchant proc chance on weapons, last 1h/s skill morph (not used too often), reflect dark flare, bow skill (not used too often).

as team of sorc's, you'd probably rather want to create spikes that are buigger than the health pool (e.g. 3 crystal procs cast at the exact same time a magicka detonation explodes, etc). a animation cancelled BoL cast is pretty quick. But not quick enough if your damage is timed perfectly. Just watch out of any source of reflect and the shield from the light armor (which imho is the best anti-sorc skill in the game, even though mostly used by sorcs today). If you cast that well-timed on a CC'd (or non-blocking/dodging) target, it's dead.

Tankqull

Cinbri wrote: »

5-men group with 3 templars?! Don't see it as a big problem as such group called "no-damage group".

untill you recieve 3 jesuss beams at the same time

eliisra

iTzStevey wrote: »

Thanks for the replies! There was three templars and they were all using that bloody prayer thing + breathe of life spam, their dps was shockingly poor yes, but the fight got boring after 15 minutes are there any healing debuffs available to sorcs apart from the meat bags? I dont think pulling out a catapult mid fight is a good idea haha.

So you 2 brave fotm sorcerers fought 5 players outnumbered and still survived for 15 minutes, than got bored. But the issue is templar being so stronk lol?

Had there been less templar healers in that group, you guys would have blinked to the other side of the map way earlier, just saying.

But I'll agree it's much harder for a sorc killing a heal bot going full defensive, than for example a stamina NB with access to cc like Fear. They can tear down healers in seconds. But sorcs only use spell dmg, while the healer probably runs Annulment/Harness Magicka 8-10k absorbing shield, stacks nirn and casts reflect debuff on you every 6 second, might even use Defensive Posture. On top of that there's healing.

These fights with groups of magicka users v.s. magicka users, especially when templar healers and sorcerers are involved, they never really end. There's so many counters against projectiles and spell dmg, so many ways to mitigate the dmg. While good sorcerers are pretty much unkillable these days.

Best tip is trying to pull and kite one player outside of healing range, bunny-jump, shield stack, emote, blink and do all that annoying stuff that makes the enemy follow you in blind rage. They spread and you guys can quickly turn around and focus the closest guy down.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

nothing2591 wrote: »

this is indeed the only problem with pvp right now, damn templars pressing 1 button to heal 3 ppl to max heal faster than what my 14k surprise attacks can dps them down.

I'd like to direct you to one of the 127,418,389 posts saying the your 14k surprise attacks are the "only problem with pvp."

With that said, a good Templar is built so that they can win any fight that lasts longer than 30 seconds. My biggest question about your fight is how on earth you survived that long? The moment you got to 50% health you should have been radiant oppressioned into Oblivion.

iTzStevey

eliisra wrote: »

iTzStevey wrote: »

Thanks for the replies! There was three templars and they were all using that bloody prayer thing + breathe of life spam, their dps was shockingly poor yes, but the fight got boring after 15 minutes are there any healing debuffs available to sorcs apart from the meat bags? I dont think pulling out a catapult mid fight is a good idea haha.

So you 2 brave fotm sorcerers fought 5 players outnumbered and still survived for 15 minutes, than got bored. But the issue is templar being so stronk lol?

Had there been less templar healers in that group, you guys would have blinked to the other side of the map way earlier, just saying.

But I'll agree it's much harder for a sorc killing a heal bot going full defensive, than for example a stamina NB with access to cc like Fear. They can tear down healers in seconds. But sorcs only use spell dmg, while the healer probably runs Annulment/Harness Magicka 8-10k absorbing shield, stacks nirn and casts reflect debuff on you every 6 second, might even use Defensive Posture. On top of that there's healing.

These fights with groups of magicka users v.s. magicka users, especially when templar healers and sorcerers are involved, they never really end. There's so many counters against projectiles and spell dmg, so many ways to mitigate the dmg. While good sorcerers are pretty much unkillable these days.

Best tip is trying to pull and kite one player outside of healing range, bunny-jump, shield stack, emote, blink and do all that annoying stuff that makes the enemy follow you in blind rage. They spread and you guys can quickly turn around and focus the closest guy down.

I just use what my class has available, not necessarily fotm, and my friends a DK, not a sorc. Thanks for rhe advice regardless

Joy_Division

nothing2591 wrote: »

this is indeed the only problem with pvp right now, damn templars pressing 1 button to heal 3 ppl to max heal faster than what my 14k surprise attacks can dps them down.

If you are a nightblade then soulharvest will give them 30% healing reduction and you kinda need 2 wrecking blow spammers to kill a GOOD templar even in a 5v5 type of situation if i had it my way breath of life would be a single target heal or not heal like a damn healing ward but with low cost and 3 targets lol

Your 14k surprise attacks are what is wrong with PvP, not Templars healing themselves.

Ezareth

Best way to counter this is to use AoE CC and burst. Also don't stick to the same target for long as everyone else will usually position themselves to heal your target. Instead keep an eye on the battlefield and when you're focused on one guy for awhile and that other templar lets himself get separated from the pack, time an immediate switch with your group right after you CC the others and burst the lone templar down with well timed burst + ults.

In reality though with the skills of all other players being equal, if the other 3 templar are dedicated to healing you're not going to kill them in a 3 v 5.

We were destroying a 3 templar ,1 DK, 1 sorc, 1 NB group a couple nights ago in a group with 2 nightblades and a templar. We called them the "Beam Squad". All the 3 Templars did was soul assault and radiant destruction and sadly the only healer in their group was the freaking magicka nightblade haha. We'd focus down the nightblade quickly and the rest of the group would fall fast, I'd just chain bash all the beams while we focused each player down.

Lutallo

Any class in a group of three will be hard to deal with if they play to their strengths. A templars strength is healing, so 3 templars will heal. If there is a 3-man group if nightblades, they can all go invis and do insane burst from stealth. 3 sorcs will have massive shields. 3 DK's will be an immovable tanking force.

Tankqull

Ezareth wrote: »

Best way to counter this is to use AoE CC and burst. Also don't stick to the same target for long as everyone else will usually position themselves to heal your target. Instead keep an eye on the battlefield and when you're focused on one guy for awhile and that other templar lets himself get separated from the pack, time an immediate switch with your group right after you CC the others and burst the lone templar down with well timed burst + ults.

In reality though with the skills of all other players being equal, if the other 3 templar are dedicated to healing you're not going to kill them in a 3 v 5.

We were destroying a 3 templar ,1 DK, 1 sorc, 1 NB group a couple nights ago in a group with 2 nightblades and a templar. We called them the "Beam Squad". All the 3 Templars did was soul assault and radiant destruction and sadly the only healer in their group was the freaking magicka nightblade haha. We'd focus down the nightblade quickly and the rest of the group would fall fast, I'd just chain bash all the beams while we focused each player down.

in every other mmo i would sign this but - "smart"(i do not see whats so smart in pushing one key while everything else is done by hardware...) healing screws that entirly.

Dekkameron

I like to hit them with a big stick till they stop moving, that's my counter to Templar healing.

BRogueNZ

3 Templars.. what else did you expect

15mins? I'm surprised boredom didn't kill you all after 2

Suntzu1414

best way to kill templar.
stun/knockdown....or fear works (just as well).

3 templars all healing (and if they are good players)
-meatbag ballista


my 2c.
ST

Djeriko

CC > stun, knock down, and if you are a NB then FEAR! Cast that and see them go running.

Edgar_Baerland

As a magicka templar, I can tell you, its certainly very doable to kill through the heals. Either just pound on them ad nauseam until they eventually run out of mana (hard way)

or just use CC and FEAR repeatedly. I mean repeatedly. Every single time the CC timer wears off. stamina control/cc break is our weakness, generally speaking.

if everyone was attacking one guy while the other 2 templars were healspamming it's going to be tough.

say it with me now,

FEAR and CC

melloni_aleb16_ESO

nothing2591 wrote: »

.... 14k surprise attacks .....

ahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha


I would say to end .... here ...

timidobserver

iTzStevey wrote: »

Okay so me and a friend was fighting 5 people, 3 of them templars. The other two died easily but the templars just pressed one button and *Boop* full health in 0.5 seconds. You can't stop them from healing by bashing, which is stupid imo. So what I'm asking is how do you counters this? Bashing doesn't work, knockdowns/CC doesn't work, so im at a loss. Any help is appreciated

So, from reading your post, you are complaining about not being able to easily 2 v 5 when the 3 of the 5 are all dedicated healers? If you have the skill to kill 5 people with 2 then great, but there isn't some how something wrong with the game if you can't kill 5 people with 2. It's on you to theorycraft up a build that can accomplish a 2v5 not on the game to make it possible for you to do it.

Also, it is worth noting that healing has taken a hardcore nerf on the PTS. Most people won't be able to go to full health with it anymore.

Francescolg

@iTzStevey
I'm wondering that no one mentioned it, so I've to do.
As in PvE (especially in dungeons) CASTING targets can be INTERRUPTED.. ) (not just by CC)
So beside skills as "stun" and "knockback", etc.. you HAVE TO INTERRUPT!! (no matter what other tell ya..)

Nuub Templar healers will just spam Breath of Life and some purge/cleanse or other "healing fields" while holding their shields up.
These players can be INTERRUPTED while they spam breath of life but remember: it's a "quick cast" (1,3 sec), so spam interrupts! (beside that, most templar skills are simply countered by interrupt skills, as they completely lack the quickyness and effectiveness of Nightblades or Sorcerers)

Skills which interrupt (beside "classic CC") are:
- class abilities which say "interrupt a casting target"
- in Melee / with all weapons: BASH (click "block" and then "weapon attack"/right mouse button + left button)
- Destruction Staff: Crushing Shock
- Bow: Poison Arrow
- (some skills give you a huge bonus on interrupted targets, mostly +dmg)
- after the interrupt do a heavy weapon attack = STUN/knockdown
- (in general: use execute skill on low health targets)

Again, if it's a Templar: most of his class skills (puncturing sweep, jesus beam, etc etc etc) are simply countered/interrupted with one button. This is a templar's handicap, due to some "unconventional" game designers, who wanted to create a "holy" class, giving them long and shiny animations and ineffective DD-abilties/class skills (not responsive as NB/Sorc). Templars got no escape skills, no Area Control Effects (fear), no flappy wings, no port-away, no stong class shield (if not more than 25k+ hp)
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Beside that, you put "befouled" on one weapon as mentioned earlier. 2 heal debuff abilities = ~45% less healing. You have a 1/3 basic chance to trigger your weapon effect with a heavy attack. If it''s not enough, get a weapon with the special trait.. (you'll find out which one^^)

abelsgmx

Ffastyl wrote: »

Major Defile
CC
A lot more damage

The primary ways to counter healing tanks. Major Defile reduces healing received by 30%. Stunning, knocking down, disorienting a healing tank will prevent them from hitting that one-heal-for-all button for a couple crucial seconds. Or you can just up the damage and pressure so high you out damage their healing.

A lot of them have a high damage mitigation and a high damage, i really don't know what they are doing is just annoying

Waffennacht

Big heals are possible on a lot of classes.
With a vitality pot, my Sorc's blessing of Restoration (non crit) heals for 10k (7.5k no pot) in Cyrodiil. A crit for around 15k.

Great advice with the disease enchantment! When I get home that's exactly what I'm gonna do!

Paraflex

Honestly the game needs a 4 second cast-able single target silence for 3 seconds or so. Locks out everything including weapon abilities would need CC immunity to it though. Extreamly high cost on this ability maybe have it use 7k mag and 7k stamina for the use as it would be very strong in a zerg, and in certain small man or group situations.

juhasman

@iTzStevey If You see 3 templars spamming BoL with chance they're in group and You dont have number adventage just leave them.
EDITED Jesus it's 1 year old thread it was before battle spirit changes......