Is Templar really a "trash" solo pvp class?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Toppling charge STILL has a GCD. That is all you really need to know about templars.

Anyone remember this thread?
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored

We ALMOST got some templar fixes. Then half way through, ZOS actually reversed what they said and claimed all the issues they had just identified as bugs were "working as intended." Then they abandoned the thread. The post was moved off the general forum and intentionally buried. If you comment on it, it will not go back to the front of the queue.

Of all the classes, Templars have the most "swing and a miss skills" and have been subject to some of the most unnecessary, pre-emptive, and ridiculous nerfs of all time.

Tell me the name of ONE class defining ability that got nerfed for NBs. Just ONE. I can think of so many for templar or any other class other than NB for that matter.

timidobserver

1vX is not very good due to lack of mobility/escape, but 2vx or 3vx we are really good.

LBxFinalDeath

Magicka DK is worse.

AfkNinja

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Magicka DK is worse.

Debatable. Magicka DK and Stamina Templar though def need the most love.

thechampxo

You can't have it both ways. Dps Or heals it's just one of those or Both and fail it's what I learnt from stam nb most squishy character in game and I'm learning to enjoy it. Plus champion points make a massive difference in the game

Jura23

My problem in PvP is I'm missing Jabs way too often. I need to improve but I would say even more competent players could have problems with that.

Akinos

Jura23 wrote: »

My problem in PvP is I'm missing Jabs way too often. I need to improve but I would say even more competent players could have problems with that.

It's pretty hard to land sweep/jabs sometimes, it's the only close range/melee skill in the game that you actually have to aim I believe.

Jura23

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Toppling charge STILL has a GCD. That is all you really need to know about templars.

Anyone remember this thread?
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored

We ALMOST got some templar fixes. Then half way through, ZOS actually reversed what they said and claimed all the issues they had just identified as bugs were "working as intended." Then they abandoned the thread. The post was moved off the general forum and intentionally buried. If you comment on it, it will not go back to the front of the queue.

Of all the classes, Templars have the most "swing and a miss skills" and have been subject to some of the most unnecessary, pre-emptive, and ridiculous nerfs of all time.

Tell me the name of ONE class defining ability that got nerfed for NBs. Just ONE. I can think of so many for templar or any other class other than NB for that matter.

Toppling Charge is incredibly bugged and most Templars will confirm that. Cannost be intended that sometimes after it's used you can't use any ability, even swap weapons until you leave combat lol.

Docmandu

thechampxo wrote: »

You can't have it both ways. Dps Or heals it's just one of those or Both and fail it's what I learnt from stam nb most squishy character in game and I'm learning to enjoy it. Plus champion points make a massive difference in the game

It's one of those things that I find strange about this game... why do heal spells do more on the caster.. ie. BoL heals the caster more than the friendly targets.. it's supposed to be a support spell, why does it need to heal yourself for so much?!

Stam NB isn't the most squishy character imho... try playing a stam templar.. at least on a stam NB you get 4-5 casts of cloak to avoid some hits or gtfo.. stam templar.. well stand there and take it to the face...

Jura23

Akinos wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

My problem in PvP is I'm missing Jabs way too often. I need to improve but I would say even more competent players could have problems with that.

It's pretty hard to land sweep/jabs sometimes, it's the only close range/melee skill in the game that you actually have to aim I believe.

Maybe Flurry can be avoided too the same way, but I'm not sure.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Jura23 wrote: »

My problem in PvP is I'm missing Jabs way too often. I need to improve but I would say even more competent players could have problems with that.

And yet in PvE I can hit mobs with Jabs easily. There are some fishy things in this game. Smells like a ninja nerf.

Jura23

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

My problem in PvP is I'm missing Jabs way too often. I need to improve but I would say even more competent players could have problems with that.

And yet in PvE I can hit mobs with Jabs easily. There are some fishy things in this game. Smells like a ninja nerf.

I do practice it on mobs, that's easy to dance around them and hit, but with players it's much harder. I guess those more competent run through you and there is no way to counter that. Mobs don't do that.

eliisra

thechampxo wrote: »

You can't have it both ways. Dps Or heals it's just one of those or Both and fail it's what I learnt from stam nb most squishy character in game and I'm learning to enjoy it. Plus champion points make a massive difference in the game

What the hell are you even talking about lol?

You need both survivability AND dps in PvP. Heals are one of many ways to gain survivability, together with shields, utility, escapes, mobility and feature abilities. So no, you cant just build for 1 thing in PvP, like only dps, only heal or only roll dodging lol.

Stamplar gets the same healing as a stamina NB. Stamplar cant use magicka based templar heals. They also have less survivability than a NB due to lower sustain, no escape, crappier cc, clunky skills that aren't instant and no good magicka dump.

Stamina NB is far from the squishiest character.

Ernest145

Despite templar being my main and the class I play most over the other 3 I can say it is on the bottom just above majicka dk. Majicka is decent in duels but for 1vx it lacks because dark flare which does good dmg but is a channel, also our execute does pretty low dmg now and is also doodgeable and of course a channel. Eclipse got nerfed which makes no sense because it was perfectly fine in 1.6 also jabs isn't burst which makes it hard to burst people down when 1vx'ing unless you are running pro det and/or dawnbreaker. Then what made me switch to stam was toppling charge and how unreliable it is. You either get the 2 seconds gcd that allows your opponent break free and get out to the way or you get locked out of your skills/dodge roll/and block and just die.

For stam templar you have no decent class defensive so generally you are pretty squishy, sun shield is completely useless and I don't even make room for it anymore and the next best thing is purifying ritual which is nice sometimes but in the end doesn't help that much. The only thing stam templar has going is whatevery other stam build has burst and decent mobility.

Docmandu

eliisra wrote: »

Stamina NB is far from the squishiest character.

A bad one is... but that's true for any class

driosketch

Jura23 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

My problem in PvP is I'm missing Jabs way too often. I need to improve but I would say even more competent players could have problems with that.

And yet in PvE I can hit mobs with Jabs easily. There are some fishy things in this game. Smells like a ninja nerf.

I do practice it on mobs, that's easy to dance around them and hit, but with players it's much harder. I guess those more competent run through you and there is no way to counter that. Mobs don't do that.

Mobs have collision. Any Templar who kills NPC groups regularly knows how to corral them into a ball and circle strafe them. They have issue moving to hit you because other mobs are in the way, and you are always in the perfect position to hit them because you can't pass through them. In PVP, not only do players hit you no matter how they are stacked, but you have to judge that where you are standing is not past their hit box.

Jura23

driosketch wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

My problem in PvP is I'm missing Jabs way too often. I need to improve but I would say even more competent players could have problems with that.

And yet in PvE I can hit mobs with Jabs easily. There are some fishy things in this game. Smells like a ninja nerf.

I do practice it on mobs, that's easy to dance around them and hit, but with players it's much harder. I guess those more competent run through you and there is no way to counter that. Mobs don't do that.

Mobs have collision. Any Templar who kills NPC groups regularly knows how to corral them into a ball and circle strafe them. They have issue moving to hit you because other mobs are in the way, and you are always in the perfect possession to hit them because you can't pass through them. In PVP, not only do players hit you no matter how they are stacked, but you have to judge that where you are standing is not past their hit box.

Which sucks. Thx for suming it up.

jhharvest

I have sometimes trouble hitting even pve mobs with my sweep. I mean, they are in my cone but only like half of the sweep animation plays, just every other strike. This happens in Cyro when there's lag.

Wreuntzylla

jhharvest wrote: »

I have sometimes trouble hitting even pve mobs with my sweep. I mean, they are in my cone but only like half of the sweep animation plays, just every other strike. This happens in Cyro when there's lag.

Sometimes it gets so bad in IC that you are on a mob/player, doing no damage and being slowly killed. Then suddenly the enemy disappears from in front of you and is half way across the room. Sometimes it's even odder in that the spell graphics come from the real location even though the graphic for the enemy itself does not move.

My sorc doesn't suffer from it, probably because I use ranged spells for the most part.

Toast_STS

I pulled of a pretty good escape on my templar yesterday. Toppling charged a guy and I fell through the map, then after a 5 minute load screen I was back at the cyrodil wayshrine.

Runkorko

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Templars have no escape and no AOE CC, thats the problem, we need at least one of those to be able to 1vX properly.
Blinding Flashes had its problems(low range), but i miss it.

Blazing Spear Rapid Maneuver Mist Form. DK is in worse position, both need some love tbh. We will see what zeni will give us with next patch.

Akinos

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Templars have no escape and no AOE CC, thats the problem, we need at least one of those to be able to 1vX properly.
Blinding Flashes had its problems(low range), but i miss it.

Blazing Spear Rapid Maneuver Mist Form. DK is in worse position, both need some love tbh. We will see what zeni will give us with next patch.

Blazing Spear only CC's one target at a time. Did you really try to say Rapid is a viable escape for a templar? Excuse me while I cough my drink up from laughing. Mistform used to be decent, now it's just a waste of a skill slot imo.

You should actually try playing a templar before saying such things....

AfkNinja

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Templars have no escape and no AOE CC, thats the problem, we need at least one of those to be able to 1vX properly.
Blinding Flashes had its problems(low range), but i miss it.

Blazing Spear Rapid Maneuver Mist Form. DK is in worse position, both need some love tbh. We will see what zeni will give us with next patch.

Templar has only single target crowd control and the other two abilities you listed are not class skills so dragon knight gets to use them also. Both classes need love yes.

Corpsage

I disagree.

I play both Magicka and Stamina based Templar and both are very competitive in PvP.

AfkNinja

Corpsage wrote: »

I disagree.

I play both Magicka and Stamina based Templar and both are very competitive in PvP.

When reviewing a class you have to discount your own skill at pvp. Yes you can make it work, but you would have an easier time making it work with other classes. Just review the passives and skills compared to other classes and there's an unbalance. That's not even taking into account all the bugs Templar's deal with like toppling charge etc..

zornyan

AfkNinja wrote: »

Corpsage wrote: »

I disagree.

I play both Magicka and Stamina based Templar and both are very competitive in PvP.

When reviewing a class you have to discount your own skill at pvp. Yes you can make it work, but you would have an easier time making it work with other classes. Just review the passives and skills compared to other classes and there's an unbalance. That's not even taking into account all the bugs Templar's deal with like toppling charge etc..

This, this and THIS

I LOVE templars, they are exactly the type of playstyle I like, paladins of the light, warriors and menders.

In reality we are far behind though, I do well in pvp with my templar, but that's because since console launch I've dedicated my time to pvp, and to pvp on my templar, infact I have THREE templars, I think they are really really cool and the only class I actually enjoy.

BUT I can jump on my nightblade, kill 3x faster, have more escape options, die less, and a far far easier time, same on my sorc...my dk...well let's not go there.

Hell for comparison.

My vr16, full gold gear templar with 3700 spell damage, requires quite a few casts of sweeps to kill anyone, I have to be a vampire for any mobility, even though that's bugged too.

I went in on my battle leveled vr3 nightblade , and was insta ganking players left and right, literally, stealth/ambush/suprise attack/soul harvest , Ambush suprise attack ...dead.

Took me all of 2-3 seconds to bring down vr16s, that's with 1900 weapon damage and 18k stamina. I don't want to think how deadly it'll be when I get 4500+ weapon damage and 35k stamina.

It really felt like pvp easy mode, any fight I could not win, cloak...roll dodge.. cloak ...roll dodge...cloak...bye!

contact.opiumb16_ESO

Corpsage wrote: »

I disagree.

I play both Magicka and Stamina based Templar and both are very competitive in PvP.

Proofs ? because i do play templar since beta, plus i have a nb and a sorcerer, and i can say that templar (magicka and stamina) are crap compared to my 2 other toons... same experience as any other experienced multi class player in ESO

a.skelton92

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

a noob question: why not using, for a magicka Templar, destro staff?

It isnt a noob question.

Nuking magika templar often use destro staff for impulse and crushing shock. Personally though I prefer DW for extra spell power

thanks houimetub17_ESO: how is it that DW give extra spell power? ty

For some reason I'm unsure why, its been coded when you are dual wielding your spell power goes up.

Its been acknowledged by ZoS and apparently they seem to be saying that its OK and that they would not remove it because its not overly OP

Wtf really? It's not that they should change it due to power reasons but just due to the fact that its bloody stupid that as a spellcaster you are forced to use two swords to get the most spell damage.. Why the hell is that even a thing?!

The least they can do is make staves give the same SP..

zornyan

a.skelton92 wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

a noob question: why not using, for a magicka Templar, destro staff?

It isnt a noob question.

Nuking magika templar often use destro staff for impulse and crushing shock. Personally though I prefer DW for extra spell power

thanks houimetub17_ESO: how is it that DW give extra spell power? ty

For some reason I'm unsure why, its been coded when you are dual wielding your spell power goes up.

Its been acknowledged by ZoS and apparently they seem to be saying that its OK and that they would not remove it because its not overly OP

Wtf really? It's not that they should change it due to power reasons but just due to the fact that its bloody stupid that as a spellcaster you are forced to use two swords to get the most spell damage.. Why the hell is that even a thing?!

The least they can do is make staves give the same SP..

What's even worse is a staff which is a 2h item gives less damage than a sword, a 2h gold sword is what? 1550 rating, a 2h staff is about 1300, so it's classed as a 1H item damage wise

AfkNinja

zornyan wrote: »

a.skelton92 wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

a noob question: why not using, for a magicka Templar, destro staff?

It isnt a noob question.

Nuking magika templar often use destro staff for impulse and crushing shock. Personally though I prefer DW for extra spell power

thanks houimetub17_ESO: how is it that DW give extra spell power? ty

For some reason I'm unsure why, its been coded when you are dual wielding your spell power goes up.

Its been acknowledged by ZoS and apparently they seem to be saying that its OK and that they would not remove it because its not overly OP

Wtf really? It's not that they should change it due to power reasons but just due to the fact that its bloody stupid that as a spellcaster you are forced to use two swords to get the most spell damage.. Why the hell is that even a thing?!

The least they can do is make staves give the same SP..

What's even worse is a staff which is a 2h item gives less damage than a sword, a 2h gold sword is what? 1550 rating, a 2h staff is about 1300, so it's classed as a 1H item damage wise

Staff also loses out on a set bonus compared to Sword/Shield and Dual Wield. It's a stupid design choice, I WANT to use a staff but I don't see the point on any class but Magicka Sorc.