I guess we will start seeing more and more of this stupid *snip* the more cp ppl get?

k2blader

Snit wrote: »

The entire CP system is designed to increase the relative power of stamina builds over time. Even when nirnhoned is adjusted, the CP system will still drive all but the uninformed or stubborn toward stamina-based damage and medium armor.

I don't play the sorc I rolled on day one of early access anymore -- I've switched to stamblade.

Agree with what the CP system is doing, but do you think it's intentional?

What bothers me more is although Zeni has said nirn is not working as intended (making the playing field laughably uneven for magicka builds), they've allowed it to go for months with no news or temporary fix to allow magicka builds to be at the same level of competition, if you ignore stam-based CP advantages. I do think that refusal to address nirn has been intentional on their part, and it makes no sense.

[edit] typos

Kobaal

Have to start bringing this back.

Kobaal

Could be worse. Snipe could be an AOE. Can you imagine?

kojou

Kobaal wrote: »

Could be worse. Snipe could be an AOE. Can you imagine?

Are you kidding this would be awesome. I would love it if my lethal arrow was as powerful as siege.

jrkhan

I feel like we don't have a very good vocabulary for describing our current build types.
I think 21k burst is just fine given how some non emps play effectively with 45k hp.
It's just that since 1.6 most people have flocked to builds that maximize sustain or burst while virtually ignoring their hp pool.


Once nirn has been adjusted, I think the kind of backloaded damage magika is capable of (mostly due to prox det) will more than make up for the 20% cp passive reduction to elemental/magic damage.
Further, the resto line offers every magika build with great group utility when needed - something many stamina builds provide little of.

I think if we were in a moba, basically everyone (the majority) is playing either an adc, or a mid.
Bruiser and support builds are simply less popular (I think bruisers are definately reappearing), but they are not at all vulnerable to 21k burst.

It's really not a good comparison, but I don't think we have good terms for it in our game.

I think things are much more balanced than many players in this forum will admit.

k2blader

jrkhan wrote: »

I feel like we don't have a very good vocabulary for describing our current build types.
I think 21k burst is just fine given how some non emps play effectively with 45k hp.
It's just that since 1.6 most people have flocked to builds that maximize sustain or burst while virtually ignoring their hp pool.


Once nirn has been adjusted, I think the kind of backloaded damage magika is capable of (mostly due to prox det) will more than make up for the 20% cp passive reduction to elemental/magic damage.
Further, the resto line offers every magika build with great group utility when needed - something many stamina builds provide little of.

I think if we were in a moba, basically everyone (the majority) is playing either an adc, or a mid.
Bruiser and support builds are simply less popular (I think bruisers are definately reappearing), but they are not at all vulnerable to 21k burst.

It's really not a good comparison, but I don't think we have good terms for it in our game.

I think things are much more balanced than many players in this forum will admit.

Personally I think detonation was a poorly thought-out addition to the game, but at this point it's somewhat of a secondary concern. If nirn is adjusted properly, my main concern is people crying (all over again) about sorc spells "hitting too hard," or in lieu of that, "hardened ward and BE too strong." I mean, you still see people whinging about sorcs even when they themselves are using nirn, lol.

So if nirn is properly fixed, I hope people resist the urge to immediately cry about being killed by a sorc and contemplate how they can adjust their strategy for next time, whether it be using globally available mitigation measures, adjusting armor/traits, or investing skills/CPs a bit differently.

I think too many people think they ought to be able to kill everyone, all the time-- then they get jealous of people they feel can do that (e.g. anyone playing a sorc)-- even though their premise is incorrect.

filmoretub17_ESO

Derra wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

You got hit from stealth dude, sneak attacks are meant to one shot you, and ZOS gave you a hard counter to prevent being killed by sneak attacks.

Care to explain why sneak attacks should one shot people ?

I´ve tried to think about an answer on this. I can´t think of anything that does not violate the forum rules. The thought process behind this is beyond my understanding.

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

If you want to avoid the 20k crystal shards you use Nirn. If you want to avoid 20k snipes then you use Impen.

What your comment says: "Hello ppl, let me introduce myself: I like to shoot guys with arrows from stealth and reap in ap for not putting myself into harms way at any time. Further i don´t know anything about the games mechanics apart from that someone on the forums told me nirn is pretty good and there is also a trait named impenetrable. Bye."

Let me properly introduce myself. I rarely get hit for 15k and about once a week I get hit for 20k wearing medium armor. Fill in the rest yourself.

Erock25

Sharee wrote: »

You can at least hear the snipe from stealth coming and roll dodge it.

On the other hand, a macroed wrecking blow+surprise attack+light attack+soul harvest from stealth delivers all damage in the same second, without warning, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it. That's the true problem nowadays, and it will only become worse as more players hop on that bandwagon.

@sharee Do you believe this isn't possible without macros? Serious question.

Cathexis

21k damage from a single high range shot? Stupid mechanic imo. What's the point?


It's just silly.

sadownik

Cathexis wrote: »

21k damage from a single high range shot? Stupid mechanic imo. What's the point?


It's just silly.

Agree. I do uderstand that skilled, well equipeed players should have advantage but im getting really tired of getting 1 shot or getting surprise knocked down with my skill bar inacvtive and no pssibility of breaking out or roll dodging and then i see on recap 3-4 skills that killed me in a second at most. I really dont care if its macro, skill, or something completely different - if i wanted to play battefield i would (and it takes much less time there to get back to fight).

fpotter

If cp is such an issue, why not just have separate campaigns were cp is disabled? Fair game no?

Obviously you will still gain exp towards cp

Domander

ToRelax wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Has nothing to do with CP. Next time interrupt it. You have to use your head and interrupt people every now and again. You just stand there of course you will get owned.

Not a bad idea actually. What server/faction are you playing? Maybe you could duel the OP and show him a few tricks like that one...

It was a sneak attack...

I would make my sarcasm more obvious, but I feel that would kinda defeat it's purpose you know. >_>

ah, heh

Sharee

Erock25 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

You can at least hear the snipe from stealth coming and roll dodge it.

On the other hand, a macroed wrecking blow+surprise attack+light attack+soul harvest from stealth delivers all damage in the same second, without warning, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it. That's the true problem nowadays, and it will only become worse as more players hop on that bandwagon.

@sharee Do you believe this isn't possible without macros? Serious question.

Yes it is technically possible to do without macros. It is very unlikely, however, to pull it off perfectly again and again and again, without fault, with every single attack you make, like we are witnessing nowadays.

So: either the game sees an influx of extremely skilled players with impeccable timing all of sudden, or they took the path of least resistance, as is typical for human nature, and started using macros to do the attack sequence for them.

Tankqull

Sharee wrote: »

You can at least hear the snipe from stealth coming and roll dodge it.

On the other hand, a macroed wrecking blow+surprise attack+light attack+soul harvest from stealth delivers all damage in the same second, without warning, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it. That's the true problem nowadays, and it will only become worse as more players hop on that bandwagon.

atleast for me ths works as often as i´m stuck in cc unwlling to accept my breakfree...
or with other words that only works if the server has absolutly no stress, the best about that sound file is its beeing played matching the number of snipes i have eaten AFTER releasing from my death ^^

Zsymon

Sharee wrote: »

You can at least hear the snipe from stealth coming and roll dodge it.

On the other hand, a macroed wrecking blow+surprise attack+light attack+soul harvest from stealth delivers all damage in the same second, without warning, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it. That's the true problem nowadays, and it will only become worse as more players hop on that bandwagon.

If you slot Radiant Magelight, it won't kill you.

Why complain about sneak attacks when there is a counter that causes them to do less than half damage? I'm saying this now, but won't ZOS be thinking the same? Why should they nerf sneak attacks even more when there is a hard counter to them?

The complaining comes down to this: "I don't want to slot Magelight, but I also don't want to die."
That's the same as complaining about roll dodgers, but refusing to slot any skills that ignore dodge.

People like their current build and they don't want to change it to adapt to strategies people are using. I really hope ZOS does not give in to complaining of this nature.

izjiz

You must learn to love the snipe, it's the only way.

Derra

Zsymon wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

You can at least hear the snipe from stealth coming and roll dodge it.

On the other hand, a macroed wrecking blow+surprise attack+light attack+soul harvest from stealth delivers all damage in the same second, without warning, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it. That's the true problem nowadays, and it will only become worse as more players hop on that bandwagon.

If you slot Radiant Magelight, it won't kill you.

Why complain about sneak attacks when there is a counter that causes them to do less than half damage? I'm saying this now, but won't ZOS be thinking the same? Why should they nerf sneak attacks even more when there is a hard counter to them?

The complaining comes down to this: "I don't want to slot Magelight, but I also don't want to die."
That's the same as complaining about roll dodgers, but refusing to slot any skills that ignore dodge.

People like their current build and they don't want to change it to adapt to strategies people are using. I really hope ZOS does not give in to complaining of this nature.

Because that "counter" is absolutely useless to stamina builds and it requires two skill slots.

It´s a horribly designed ability. Don´t want to be instagibbed? Better use this great toggle ability we provide you with to have even less active buttons in an already dumbed down skill system. Toggles are boring and make for sh*tty gameplay thats why so few people are using them.

Also there is a trick with the NB class to bypass radiant magelight reduction entirely and still get the sneak attack bonus.

I would love for sneak to be a toggle ability you have to slot on both bars. That would be great wouldn´t it? Just as rolldodge. Want to dodge and sneak to play your pvp style - give up your bar space for these nice toggles that enable you to do so.

RinaldoGandolphi

All i will say is

You can survive being shot with a 350 pound piece of rock from one of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet Yet be 1 shot with a Bow and Arrow. Embrace it! All part of the fun experience!

Happy Friday!

Sharee

Zsymon wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

You can at least hear the snipe from stealth coming and roll dodge it.

On the other hand, a macroed wrecking blow+surprise attack+light attack+soul harvest from stealth delivers all damage in the same second, without warning, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it. That's the true problem nowadays, and it will only become worse as more players hop on that bandwagon.

If you slot Radiant Magelight, it won't kill you.

Yes it will.

The magelight will negate the extra damage wrecking blow would have done from sneak. Instead, it will do normal damage. But that is not enough to save you. You get hit by normal damage wrecking blow, normal damage surprise attack, normal damage light attack, and normal damage soul harvest, all hitting at the same time. That is more damage than the HP most targets in cyrodiil typically have.

Sublime

I see the place Radiant Magelight should fill, the problem is that the skill itself doesn't Appeal to any build and here's why:

As its counterpart it also provides Major Prophecy which would basically appeal to magicka-based builds. However, instead of increasing the Max Magicka it reduces it by 3% (+2% from Magicka Controller, difference to the other morph is still 10% though). Of course this is made to balance out the bonus against sneak attacks, but having two such controversial boni on the same skill makes it a pretty strange skill that's only desirable for very niche builds. Apart from that, which player likes having a skill that reduces one of his combat stats?

As a solution I'd suggest to remove the Max Magicka reduction of Radiant Magelight in order to get rid of the negative psychological aspect, as well as bring it a bit more in line with Inner Light.

Soris

There are only 5 skills slots you can use at a time and wasting 1 of them to a toggled skill just to reduce stealth attack damage is just meh.