I guess we will start seeing more and more of this stupid *snip* the more cp ppl get?

Joy_Division

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

So really this has nothing to do with CP...

The OP was already in melee with an enemy and an opportunistic player took advantage. This happens all the time, and would have happened if the sniper had hit him for less since OP had already taken at least 12,816 damage at that point.

Whats the difference between this and some one sneaking up behind him with a wrecking blow, or a templar hitting him with the old Jesus beam? It has nothing to do with Focused Aim either...

IMHO this is just part of PvP. You win some, you lose some, and from what I can tell it doesn't look like anybody exploited any thing so moving on...

The combat scenario happens all the time. 21K attacks should not.

Lava_Croft

Still the longest range, highest damage regular ability in the game. Nothing changed since 1.5 except that with the Champion System, you can buff it some more.

Vizier

Snit wrote: »

Unlike magickal damage, the CP system offers little to mitigate physical hits. The only thing you can do is increase your armor by a percentage, which is borderline useless for light armor wearers and only moderately helpful in medium. With magicka damage, you can decrease it by a straight percentage, and match whatever your attacker has invested in his attack perks.

It's a very strange oversight.

You forgot about the other abilities to increase the effectiveness of "damage absorbing effects" and other passives that reduce damage from things like, magic, elements, poison and critical damage.

Come on. There's tons of damage mitigating passives.

Lava_Croft

Vizier wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Unlike magickal damage, the CP system offers little to mitigate physical hits. The only thing you can do is increase your armor by a percentage, which is borderline useless for light armor wearers and only moderately helpful in medium. With magicka damage, you can decrease it by a straight percentage, and match whatever your attacker has invested in his attack perks.

It's a very strange oversight.

You forgot about the other abilities to increase the effectiveness of "damage absorbing effects" and other passives that reduce damage from things like, magic, elements, poison and critical damage.

Come on. There's tons of damage mitigating passives.

He was specifically talking about physical damage.

Syntse

If someone builds to maximize the snipe damage then this is possible. I don't see issue here tho, not everyone is doing that kind of damage with snipe. Yes I've been killed by 22k snipes yesterday. Annoying? Yes. Do I cry about it? No.

cazlonb16_ESO

Removing soft and hard caps was the wrong call. Snipe with 3k weapon damage is fine, with 5k it's not.

Seth_Black

Look at it from both sides

There's always some sneaky sniper who will spam both versions of that ability from stealth dealing crazy amounts of damage. Think about how much physical resistance you've got and what kind of protection you're using.
If you're fully shielded he won't one shot you because you rarely see damage above 21-23k (on really high crit cp buff can be 27k). BEST is when guy like this attacks DK who just pops up reflective scales and bounces arrow back to him. Guy marks HIMSELF and gets 75% off his bar
So when you fight someone and get sniped it means one thing ...they are better prepared and you've got no support
You can complain same way about duo DK+NB using talons and bombard all the time killing 4-6 enemies at once very easy.
First of all it's a WAR ...you don't go solo

kevlarto_ESO

halfbadger wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Has nothing to do with CP. Next time interrupt it. You have to use your head and interrupt people every now and again. You just stand there of course you will get owned.

So the double damage that the champion system will enable people to do has nothing to do with people getting hit for lots of damage by other players?

I am sure the CP contributes to the damage, but there is animation canceling the broken sharpened trait, there are more things causing high damage than the CP points, things tied to macro's, wait until you get hit with the insta-jibber and hit the ground in less than second, this game has more broken and exploitive mechanics, than we can count on one hand, and why ZOS does not fix these kind of things with incremental patches is beyond me sometimes. And it always helps to be aware and on the move at all times, or stealth.

Xandryah

a few months ago i got killed damaged with 17500 dmg, while having around 85% hp (Radian Destruction) being veteran purple 14 in decent gear-choice with glyphs etc , etc , etc... and... died with a common attack of around 3500, but i was executed at hp 85% ... common skills also dimish the hp-bar up to 30% (7500 dmg-skill to a 25000 pvp-hp-bar) and without critical damage!

my opinion is that there is time to change that until November 2015 ,when another social game will come out , and another's game expansion and in spring 2016 there will another MMO... until then, i hope they do sth serious about that; maybe the people are too much artists and not so much economists...but the numbers make sense to me.. (i'm no expert at all though)

but, yeah, seeing your hp-bar collapse in no time is not a long-term fun experience (personally), especially when you have to bother running back to action by your own..

i hope it gets better somehow.. ^_^

Zsymon

You got hit from stealth dude, sneak attacks are meant to one shot you, and ZOS gave you a hard counter to prevent being killed by sneak attacks.

Zsymon

It's so exhausting watching all these people complain about being killed by sneak attacks.. sneak attacks are meant to kill you in a one or two hit combination, that's what their purpose is, there is nothing wrong with that, there are counters.

You can dodge, you can block, you can use Radiant Magelight to cut damage by 56%.. Snipe for example warns you with a distinct sound, giving you time to dodge or block, and if you can't react that fast, slot Radiant Magelight, it will completely prevent you from being one shot by any sneak attack.

ToRelax

Zsymon wrote: »

You got hit from stealth dude, sneak attacks are meant to one shot you, and ZOS gave you a hard counter to prevent being killed by sneak attacks.

Care to explain why sneak attacks should one shot people ?

Zsymon

ToRelax wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

You got hit from stealth dude, sneak attacks are meant to one shot you, and ZOS gave you a hard counter to prevent being killed by sneak attacks.

Care to explain why sneak attacks should one shot people ?

Because that's what they're meant to do, it's what their purpose is, it's why you get bonus damage from stealth, a sneak attack would be meaningless if people could just shrug it off and heal up. If you get killed often like that you can completely prevent being one shot simply by slotting Radiant Magelight. You can have it on both bars and always active, or on just one bar and activate it manually when you feel there is danger of stealth users.

Or you can just not use it and listen for the whistle of Snipers and then dodge or block, that's why the whistle is there, it's another counter. ZOS explained that you have to sacrifice parts of your build to use counters, be they counters to sneak attacks, dodge, blocking or other strong mechanics, you can't have everything, that's the whole point of the limited skill bar.

Things are only overpowered if there are no counters, and currently that applies only to shield stacking, and I hear they're implementing a counter against damage shields as well, just like with Magelight you'll have to sacrifice a bar to slot that ability. Shields won't be useless because not everyone wants to fit the new ability in their build, just like sneak attacks aren't useless because not everyone wants to fit Magelight into their build.

It's all about choices. If you get annoyed by a particular ability or mechanic, you slot the counter, simple as that. Everything except shields (currently) has a counter ability, counter mechanic or counter stategy, that's part of why this is such an amazing game, that's why great players (I'm not one) shine so much compared to mediocre players.

NotSo

I think sniping from stealth should drop the stealth damage bonus, there's no danger from lobbing snipes off a wall or other high place. It's rewarding free kills to a riskless playstyle.

Beyond that, I think the stealth mechanic ahould be changed completely.

Right now anything stamina based gets a x2 damage multiplier and being seen will keep you locked out of stealth for a huge amount of time. I would like to see the damage multipiers be tweaked on a skill by skill basis, i.e. high risk skills like uppercut (melee with cast time) would have a high damage multiplier but low risk skills (ranged, allows multiple attacks to be queued before breaking stealth) would have little to none. A skill by skill balance pass should allow some magicka skills to get a stealth bonus aswell methinks.

Stealth needs to be easier to restealth in combat but also easier to uncover stealthers. I propose a line of sight, time, and distance based system, dropping the mechanic of being attacked locking you out of stealth completely. You should be able to stealth after, let's say, 3 seconds of being out of any enemy's line of sight as well as being at least 20m away from any enemies that attacked you.

Uncovering players from stealthers should still work by proximity but that neutral range should be explanded way out. Right now I believe it is 8m, that should be expanded 20m. To allow stealth attacks, you would have to be inside someones stealth detection range for about 10 seconds before you are actualy uncovered. Players would have a 10m range (forward cone) that would immediately uncover stealthers.

This should all make combat feel more alive.

---

On a side note, I think I'm going to open a new discussion with this. As I am one to do.

Zsymon

I agree with some of that, but there is already a potion and an ability to uncover stealth users very easily, no need to make it even easier or you risk making stealth obsolete entirely. With your suggestion it would practically be impossible to land a melee sneak attack, causing the extra multiplier to be pointless.

You mean to change stealth so you don't need Magelight or Detection Potions, but they're there for a reason, they are counters and they're meant to be used, stealth detection shouldn't become automatic, you simplify the game like that and remove strategy and complexity.

Counters need to require sacrifice, they shouldn't be automatic.

Imo everything about stealth and sneak attacks is fine right now, except how long you get locked out of stealth, like you said restealthing needs to be easier and less buggy. Important mechanics such as stealth, dodge and block should never be watered down, if anything they should be made more important and powerful, otherwise we end up with old fashion numbers combat, with no strategy and skill involved.

Derra

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Has nothing to do with CP. Next time interrupt it. You have to use your head and interrupt people every now and again. You just stand there of course you will get owned.

Better interrupt that mongrel sniping you out of stealth rendering you completely unable to react to the incoming 1shot once the game decides to not play the snipe sound again (which is about every 2nd snipe).

I´d say give magic attacks stealth bonus too and make it a fair game.

Joy_Division

Zsymon wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

You got hit from stealth dude, sneak attacks are meant to one shot you, and ZOS gave you a hard counter to prevent being killed by sneak attacks.

Care to explain why sneak attacks should one shot people ?

Because that's what they're meant to do, it's what their purpose is, it's why you get bonus damage from stealth, a sneak attack would be meaningless if people could just shrug it off and heal up. If you get killed often like that you can completely prevent being one shot simply by slotting Radiant Magelight. You can have it on both bars and always active, or on just one bar and activate it manually when you feel there is danger of stealth users.

Or you can just not use it and listen for the whistle of Snipers and then dodge or block, that's why the whistle is there, it's another counter. ZOS explained that you have to sacrifice parts of your build to use counters, be they counters to sneak attacks, dodge, blocking or other strong mechanics, you can't have everything, that's the whole point of the limited skill bar.

Things are only overpowered if there are no counters, and currently that applies only to shield stacking, and I hear they're implementing a counter against damage shields as well, just like with Magelight you'll have to sacrifice a bar to slot that ability. Shields won't be useless because not everyone wants to fit the new ability in their build, just like sneak attacks aren't useless because not everyone wants to fit Magelight into their build.

It's all about choices. If you get annoyed by a particular ability or mechanic, you slot the counter, simple as that. Everything except shields (currently) has a counter ability, counter mechanic or counter stategy, that's part of why this is such an amazing game, that's why great players (I'm not one) shine so much compared to mediocre players.

Umm, no. Sneak attacks are not "meant to do" a one shot. You would like it to be that way (hello stamina bow using sneaky person ), but ZoS does not. See 1.5 patch which reduced the amount of bonus damage provided by stealthed attacks against other player characters.

kojou

Joy_Division wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

So really this has nothing to do with CP...

The OP was already in melee with an enemy and an opportunistic player took advantage. This happens all the time, and would have happened if the sniper had hit him for less since OP had already taken at least 12,816 damage at that point.

Whats the difference between this and some one sneaking up behind him with a wrecking blow, or a templar hitting him with the old Jesus beam? It has nothing to do with Focused Aim either...

IMHO this is just part of PvP. You win some, you lose some, and from what I can tell it doesn't look like anybody exploited any thing so moving on...

The combat scenario happens all the time. 21K attacks should not.

If a 21k attack is a one shot for you then you might consider running with more health in PVP... I die a lot in PvP, but I also kill a lot. Just rez at the keep and try again and learn something from your death.

Soris

Zsymon wrote: »

It's so exhausting watching all these people complain about being killed by sneak attacks.. sneak attacks are meant to kill you in a one or two hit combination, that's what their purpose is, there is nothing wrong with that, there are counters.

Zsymon wrote: »

Because that's what they're meant to do, it's what their purpose is.

Agree with your blah blah if only sneaking in daylight in an open area wasn't a thing.

noobfury

Name one CP skill that mitigates or increases resistance to PHYSICAL damage other than increasing armor values.

filmoretub17_ESO

If you want to avoid the 20k crystal shards you use Nirn. If you want to avoid 20k snipes then you use Impen.

Lava_Croft

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

If you want to avoid the 20k crystal shards you use Nirn. If you want to avoid 20k snipes then you use Impen.

This reasoning makes my mind hurt slightly.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Garion wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Has nothing to do with CP. Next time interrupt it. You have to use your head and interrupt people every now and again. You just stand there of course you will get owned.

Interrupt a focused aim? Yeah... Okay.

Seriously. That had to be the dumbest suggestion I have seen in a long time.

Derra

ToRelax wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

You got hit from stealth dude, sneak attacks are meant to one shot you, and ZOS gave you a hard counter to prevent being killed by sneak attacks.

Care to explain why sneak attacks should one shot people ?

I´ve tried to think about an answer on this. I can´t think of anything that does not violate the forum rules. The thought process behind this is beyond my understanding.

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

If you want to avoid the 20k crystal shards you use Nirn. If you want to avoid 20k snipes then you use Impen.

What your comment says: "Hello ppl, let me introduce myself: I like to shoot guys with arrows from stealth and reap in ap for not putting myself into harms way at any time. Further i don´t know anything about the games mechanics apart from that someone on the forums told me nirn is pretty good and there is also a trait named impenetrable. Bye."

eventide03b14a_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lol well ok you guys keep blaming the system because you are poor players.

I suspect you are a person that relies on snipe quite a bit. No other way you would be defending an obviously broken mechanic so vehemently.

Snit

Some of the real

Vizier wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Unlike magickal damage, the CP system offers little to mitigate physical hits. The only thing you can do is increase your armor by a percentage, which is borderline useless for light armor wearers and only moderately helpful in medium. With magicka damage, you can decrease it by a straight percentage, and match whatever your attacker has invested in his attack perks.

It's a very strange oversight.

You forgot about the other abilities to increase the effectiveness of "damage absorbing effects" and other passives that reduce damage from things like, magic, elements, poison and critical damage.

Come on. There's tons of damage mitigating passives.

I was discussing physical damage. My post was very specific about that.

There are a ton of ways to mitigate damage, but most of those apply only to magicka-based damage. You can increase your spell resistance, increase your resistance to elements and increase your resistance to magick damage. For physical attacks, you can increase your armor. If you're wearing light armor, that's useless.

The entire CP system is designed to increase the relative power of stamina builds over time. Even when nirnhoned is adjusted, the CP system will still drive all but the uninformed or stubborn toward stamina-based damage and medium armor.

I don't play the sorc I rolled on day one of early access anymore -- I've switched to stamblade.

tonemd

The advice dumped out a couple of days ago by DC idiots players was to listen for the snipe. You can ALWAYS automatically roll dodge out of the way or block when you hear that sound, while being attacked by 5 other people. Invest in some surround sound headphones and crank them up until it feels like your on the battlefield.

Joy_Division

tonemd wrote: »

The advice dumped out a couple of days ago by DC idiots players was to listen for the snipe. You can ALWAYS automatically roll dodge out of the way or block when you hear that sound, while being attacked by 5 other people. Invest in some surround sound headphones and crank them up until it feels like your on the battlefield.

I like my CAPS lock key too. Now how do you roll dodge or block if you are stunned, feared, disoriented, or knocked down?

k2blader

noobfury wrote: »

Name one CP skill that mitigates or increases resistance to PHYSICAL damage other than increasing armor values.

That one that increases "armor effectiveness" of light armor comes to mind-- sorry too lazy to look up the proper name. (Yes, my answer is serious, but I know in reality it's a joke. >_< )

Sharee

You can at least hear the snipe from stealth coming and roll dodge it.

On the other hand, a macroed wrecking blow+surprise attack+light attack+soul harvest from stealth delivers all damage in the same second, without warning, and there is nothing you can do to avoid it. That's the true problem nowadays, and it will only become worse as more players hop on that bandwagon.