Lightning Form - Coming Stamina Morph Concerns

RinaldoGandolphi

@ZOS_GinaBruno

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/39gv5r/the_elder_scroll_online_tamriel_unlimited_team/cs3bmlh

Hi Gina,

I am writing this post hoping to alleviate concerns with the upcoming High Damage Stamina Morph of Lightning Form.

Many of us magic Sorc's in the community are concerned you guys/gals are going to take away our Boundless Storm speed bufff which many Magic Based Sorc's rely on for defense, armor, and movement speed.

Boundless Storm is the only magic based and magic cost speed boost available to Sorc's. We need this morph to stay magic as it currently is.

Stamina Users already have access to Rapid Maneuvers at Alliance Rank 1 which not only boosts their speed, but removes snares as well.

Taking away the magic based Boundless Storm will hurt magic based Sorc's who need it due to lower armor ratings, reliance on light armor, and the increased need for re-positioning.

Thundering Presence isn't used as much by Magic based Sorcs, and it makes more sense if the morph is going to come from one of them.

I am hoping the Boundless Storm morph will be left alone and magic based Sorc's will not be robbed of their only magic based speed buff.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely

Rinaldo

Garion

+1

I know everyone seems to have a hard on for the possibility of stamina sorcs, but stamina already rules this game. In general ZOS, please don't change sorcerers so much that we are forced to play in a way we don't want to... Thanks

Morvul

well, as someone who uses a magicka-based Sorc tank build - which relies heavily on thundering presence being magick base ... I obviously have opposite hopes from you

skill changes always screw somone over... it's in the nature of the beast

BigTone

Please do not remove my speed buff for lightning form. It is very useful in both pve and pvp. On another note, I don't understand why there is a push for more stamina sorc abilities. There is nothing about sorcerer that makes me think of stamina, I instantly think of magicka. A magicka based, spamable dps skill would be very useful for PvE. All other classes have them, but I have to rely on force pulse which forces me to use a destro staff.

Lyzaaa

Dear sorcerers,

Haiii, You're the only class thats able to push 1 stat to have it all, you already have the best escape in the game ( bolt )

You're the only class that can shield stack - again based off magicka thus offense = defense.

Your class is broken, extremely easy to equip and skill-loadout & insanely easy to play.

@ zenimax, just ignore sorcerer threads, thank you.

Lyzaaa

Garion wrote: »

+1

I know everyone seems to have a hard on for the possibility of stamina sorcs, but stamina already rules this game. In general ZOS, please don't change sorcerers so much that we are forced to play in a way we don't want to... Thanks

Magicka sorc is the only class not forced to do anything. You have all the innate tools to do so.

Meanwhile Nightblade (sure still broken with roll dodge and fear ) doesnt have a shield nor innate sustain

DK doesnt have any sustained DPS stamina morphs - no major berserk or any other steroid -> forced to go 1h/shield in magicka and 2hander @ stamina.

Templar.. well ya know

skillastat

I'm a stamina sorc and I use boundless storm (magicka based)

I need my stamina for EVERYTHING else such as break free, attacks, dodge, block, etc.

This spell is one of the only one that I use with magicka and would like to keep it magicka based.

EDIT: I hate rapid cuz If I attack while the buff is on then I loose it, or it cost way too much stam for it to be efficient in my build.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Please do not touch Boundless Storm. I always have it on my bar and would really miss it.

TBois

What they need to do is put the speed buff in the base skill and make changes to both morphs (one costs less, one higher damage). Stam sorc now synergies with boundless storm due to the movement speed buff. Magicka sorcs have bolt escape for manuevering. Stam sorcs can only BE a few times. We need Boundless Strom's speed buff.

Lava_Croft

What really needs to be done is wait and see what is actually going to happen!

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Dear sorcerers,

Haiii, You're the only class thats able to push 1 stat to have it all, you already have the best escape in the game ( bolt )

You're the only class that can shield stack - again based off magicka thus offense = defense.

Your class is broken, extremely easy to equip and skill-loadout & insanely easy to play.

@ zenimax, just ignore sorcerer threads, thank you.

If I cast Healing Ward and Dampen Magic, does that make me a Sorcerer?

Domander

skillastatb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm a stamina sorc and I use boundless storm (magicka based)

I need my stamina for EVERYTHING else such as break free, attacks, dodge, block, etc.

This spell is one of the only one that I use with magicka and would like to keep it magicka based.

EDIT: I hate rapid cuz If I attack while the buff is on then I loose it, or it cost way too much stam for it to be efficient in my build.

Yeah, rapid is a different kind of buff, it's expensive and wears off on attack

FENGRUSH

Yea it really depends what they plan to do here. This could be a big nerf - but theyve gotta be really stupid to mess this one up.

CP5

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Yea it really depends what they plan to do here. This could be a big nerf - but theyve gotta be really stupid to mess this one up.

... After the changes the class got in 1.6...

Anyway, i'm glad Eric got something information wise out to the community (only since february) and magic sorcerer's will have to loose their almost complete monopoly on skill morphs for any other sorcerer build to have any ground.

OtarTheMad

We'll lets see what they have planned, I am going to hope that they change Thundering Presence but if they don't then that's fine too. Sorcs still have another shield and bolt escape isn't that bad for getting away.

pWn3d_1337

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Dear sorcerers,

Haiii, You're the only class thats able to push 1 stat to have it all, you already have the best escape in the game ( bolt )

You're the only class that can shield stack - again based off magicka thus offense = defense.

Your class is broken, extremely easy to equip and skill-loadout & insanely easy to play.

@ zenimax, just ignore sorcerer threads, thank you.

Seems you are only seeing it from the PvP side?

In endgame PvE sorcs are the weakest class.

danno8

What they should do, and should have done from the start (1.6) is to ADD a stamina morph, not replace a magicka morph with a stamina one.

Also, Templar wants his own magicka speed boost too plz thx.

danno8

Domander wrote: »

skillastatb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm a stamina sorc and I use boundless storm (magicka based)

I need my stamina for EVERYTHING else such as break free, attacks, dodge, block, etc.

This spell is one of the only one that I use with magicka and would like to keep it magicka based.

EDIT: I hate rapid cuz If I attack while the buff is on then I loose it, or it cost way too much stam for it to be efficient in my build.

Yeah, rapid is a different kind of buff, it's expensive and wears off on attack

I agree there. There are certain posters who have said something along the lines of "everyone has an escape tool, it's called Rapid Maneuvers." But for a magicka based player it will eat about 75% of your stamina, and now you have absolutely no sprinting ability.

eliisra

All you magicka sorcs can kiss that speed buff baibai. Based on earlier experience, the most used morph will be added to the stamina experiment, while the situational crappy one will be kept for magicka users.

RIP Surprise attack, Ambush, Biting Jabs, Unstable flames

I'm pretty sure Thunderous Presence will be for magicka users, this cuz ZoS logic where light armor needs one more armor buff. While stamina builds naturally needs even more mobility on top of their mobility.

They're not really considering how much movement increases survivability in PvP. Mobility and escapes is literally everything in PvP right now, you cant just stand in one place and try to tank stuff. You melt, regardless of build, class or shields stacked.

danno8 wrote: »

What they should do, and should have done from the start (1.6) is to ADD a stamina morph, not replace a magicka morph with a stamina one.

Also, Templar wants his own magicka speed boost too plz thx.

This is partly why I'm not shedding tears. Playing a slowpoke magicka templar with 0 mobility and 0 escapes, that's always getting gang-banged in the back, always stuck in combat, makes it hard to sympathize lol.

FENGRUSH

The reality is this change could hurt stam sorc just as well. Speed is a good tool unless youre expecting stam sorcs to stick with bow exclusively and add a stam morph blink. Youre somehow going to convince FENGRUSH that a point blank AOE dot is going to boosted enough to be relevant for damage? Are stam sorcs now hugging their targets and jumping in a blob and idling? Maybe if youre in a ball group, in which case this doesnt even matter anyway for you.

Not too hopeful for this - this is one skill that didnt need to be changed. Not sure if @ZOS_eric has ever experienced PVP or cared to ask the opinion of anyone who does.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

cozmon3c_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The reality is this change could hurt stam sorc just as well. Speed is a good tool unless youre expecting stam sorcs to stick with bow exclusively and add a stam morph blink. Youre somehow going to convince FENGRUSH that a point blank AOE dot is going to boosted enough to be relevant for damage? Are stam sorcs now hugging their targets and jumping in a blob and idling? Maybe if youre in a ball group, in which case this doesnt even matter anyway for you.

Not too hopeful for this - this is one skill that didnt need to be changed. Not sure if @ZOS_eric has ever experienced PVP or cared to ask the opinion of anyone who does.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

its probably for pve viability, so you can stand next to stuff and just wrecking blow spam mobs.

Cathexis

I'd like to point out that Stam sorcs and mag sorcs are in agreement that a high damage boundless is not the answer to sorcs


And id like to add that stamina morphs of critical sorc abilities like bolt, ward, and shard ARE what Stam sorcs need and that in their current state they are basically underpowered nightblades without cloak (with no bolt, no ward, and no long range stamina ability that is not weapon dependant)

The big problem with the entire sorc situation is that prior to the 1.6 changes to ability resources, hybrid sorcs were functional. Once the changes were made, the line was drawn between the two, with magika sorcs receiving all the benefits.

Lastly, my question to zen is:

HAVE YOU EVER EVEN TRIED TO PLAY A STAMINA SORC???????????????

Snit

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The reality is this change could hurt stam sorc just as well. Speed is a good tool unless youre expecting stam sorcs to stick with bow exclusively and add a stam morph blink. Youre somehow going to convince FENGRUSH that a point blank AOE dot is going to boosted enough to be relevant for damage? Are stam sorcs now hugging their targets and jumping in a blob and idling? Maybe if youre in a ball group, in which case this doesnt even matter anyway for you.

Not too hopeful for this - this is one skill that didnt need to be changed. Not sure if @ZOS_eric has ever experienced PVP or cared to ask the opinion of anyone who does.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey, ZOS.. the above is one of the handful of people who actually play stam sorcs at a high level. There are two or three others. Please consider their feedback more signal than noise.

byrom101b16_ESO

... and the entirely predictable magicka Sorcerer build nerfing begins.

This is the kind of thing you get when a tiny handful of stamina sorcerer players make an endless dogmatic and self-serving din on the forums about robbing magicka morphs for stamina - ill thought out changes to a class which take no account of the fact most people already play with those morphs...

... like there is no other way to give stamina sorcs what they want...?

...yeah, right...

Cue the 'usual suspects' jumping on this thread and defending the changes, despite the fact they previously claimed that magicka builds wouldn't be hurt by their 'modest' requirements.

It was as clear as day to anyone with an ounce of sense this was going to happen, and ergo, here we are...

If this even so much as touches my build as it is now, Zenimax can kiss my money goodbye. They are close enough as it is with the endless lack of content for so long after all their hollow promises of a subscription only game with regular content updates.

All it takes is one more straw and I'll join the many members of several guilds I have been in who left already due to the game being a poster child for broken promises and 'the noisy wheel gets the oil' reactive mismanagement.

byrom101b16_ESO

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Dear sorcerers,

Haiii, You're the only class thats able to push 1 stat to have it all, you already have the best escape in the game ( bolt )

You're the only class that can shield stack - again based off magicka thus offense = defense.

Your class is broken, extremely easy to equip and skill-loadout & insanely easy to play.

@ zenimax, just ignore sorcerer threads, thank you.

... because stamina is not the single resource meta now... right?

I would suggest posts without the slightest clue are ignored by Zenimax, not threads with legitimate concerns.

Tankqull

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Dear sorcerers,

Haiii, You're the only class thats able to push 1 stat to have it all, you already have the best escape in the game ( bolt )

You're the only class that can shield stack - again based off magicka thus offense = defense.

Your class is broken, extremely easy to equip and skill-loadout & insanely easy to play.

@ zenimax, just ignore sorcerer threads, thank you.

awesome - every one is complaining that stamina has to suffer from having its defense (blocking/rolldodging/healing) tied to its offensive resource blaming it as a great disadvantage.
the same thing on a sorc with magica on the other hand is a significant advantage...

RinaldoGandolphi

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Dear sorcerers,

Haiii, You're the only class thats able to push 1 stat to have it all, you already have the best escape in the game ( bolt )

You're the only class that can shield stack - again based off magicka thus offense = defense.

Your class is broken, extremely easy to equip and skill-loadout & insanely easy to play.

@ zenimax, just ignore sorcerer threads, thank you.

LOL! wow....the Sorc hate is strong in you.....

CP5

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

... and the entirely predictable magicka Sorcerer build nerfing begins.

This is the kind of thing you get when a tiny handful of stamina sorcerer players make an endless dogmatic and self-serving din on the forums about robbing magicka morphs for stamina - ill thought out changes to a class which take no account of the fact most people already play with those morphs...

... like there is no other way to give stamina sorcs what they want...?

...yeah, right...

Cue the 'usual suspects' jumping on this thread and defending the changes, despite the fact they previously claimed that magicka builds wouldn't be hurt by their 'modest' requirements.

It was as clear as day to anyone with an ounce of sense this was going to happen, and ergo, here we are...

If this even so much as touches my build as it is now, Zenimax can kiss my money goodbye. They are close enough as it is with the endless lack of content for so long after all their hollow promises of a subscription only game with regular content updates.

All it takes is one more straw and I'll join the many members of several guilds I have been in who left already due to the game being a poster child for broken promises and 'the noisy wheel gets the oil' reactive mismanagement.

Guessing you would call me one of the 'usual suspects' in regards to sorcerer stamina changes, but we've gone over this many times with little progress. I'll say this, no other class in the game is as shoehorned into such a small selection of builds as the sorcerer, no other class has builds that either have a near monopoly on skill morphs or next to no options.

I'll admit zos seems to have a bad history on changes for the class but in order for any progress to be made and for the sorcerer toolkit to be improved, there is a risk that your build will have to be reworked as magicka sorcerers already have almost the entire class to themselves. Also, isn't it self serving to say anyone that is trying to get the class changed is inherently a bad person? This is eso, any class any role, this class can't really stand up to that and changes will come soon*.

byrom101b16_ESO

CP5 wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

... and the entirely predictable magicka Sorcerer build nerfing begins.

This is the kind of thing you get when a tiny handful of stamina sorcerer players make an endless dogmatic and self-serving din on the forums about robbing magicka morphs for stamina - ill thought out changes to a class which take no account of the fact most people already play with those morphs...

... like there is no other way to give stamina sorcs what they want...?

...yeah, right...

Cue the 'usual suspects' jumping on this thread and defending the changes, despite the fact they previously claimed that magicka builds wouldn't be hurt by their 'modest' requirements.

It was as clear as day to anyone with an ounce of sense this was going to happen, and ergo, here we are...

If this even so much as touches my build as it is now, Zenimax can kiss my money goodbye. They are close enough as it is with the endless lack of content for so long after all their hollow promises of a subscription only game with regular content updates.

All it takes is one more straw and I'll join the many members of several guilds I have been in who left already due to the game being a poster child for broken promises and 'the noisy wheel gets the oil' reactive mismanagement.

Guessing you would call me one of the 'usual suspects' in regards to sorcerer stamina changes, but we've gone over this many times with little progress. I'll say this, no other class in the game is as shoehorned into such a small selection of builds as the sorcerer, no other class has builds that either have a near monopoly on skill morphs or next to no options.

I'll admit zos seems to have a bad history on changes for the class but in order for any progress to be made and for the sorcerer toolkit to be improved, there is a risk that your build will have to be reworked as magicka sorcerers already have almost the entire class to themselves. Also, isn't it self serving to say anyone that is trying to get the class changed is inherently a bad person? This is eso, any class any role, this class can't really stand up to that and changes will come soon*.

I never had a problem with stamina choices for Sorcs, I had a problem with robbing 'magicka' Peter to pay 'stamiina' Paul. No-one is a 'bad person' for wanting their play-style catered to, but that cuts both ways, something a number of stamina build advocates conveniently ignored as they threw mud at their detractors.

I was shouted down and insulted (not by you if I recall) by those supporters of stamina builds who advocated morph changes when I told them magicka builds were going to get hit.

I was right. They were wrong.

No chances of an acknowledgement of that though is there?

I always presumed Zenimax were going to take the easiest route from A to B for THEM - by ploughing straight through established skills and builds currently in use, and that is precisely what they are doing. It's not like there isn't precedent for that conclusion...

The case is proven. Not much more to say really, except how disappointingly predictable this all is.

FENGRUSH

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

... and the entirely predictable magicka Sorcerer build nerfing begins.

This is the kind of thing you get when a tiny handful of stamina sorcerer players make an endless dogmatic and self-serving din on the forums about robbing magicka morphs for stamina - ill thought out changes to a class which take no account of the fact most people already play with those morphs...

... like there is no other way to give stamina sorcs what they want...?

...yeah, right...

Cue the 'usual suspects' jumping on this thread and defending the changes, despite the fact they previously claimed that magicka builds wouldn't be hurt by their 'modest' requirements.

It was as clear as day to anyone with an ounce of sense this was going to happen, and ergo, here we are...

If this even so much as touches my build as it is now, Zenimax can kiss my money goodbye. They are close enough as it is with the endless lack of content for so long after all their hollow promises of a subscription only game with regular content updates.

All it takes is one more straw and I'll join the many members of several guilds I have been in who left already due to the game being a poster child for broken promises and 'the noisy wheel gets the oil' reactive mismanagement.

Guessing you would call me one of the 'usual suspects' in regards to sorcerer stamina changes, but we've gone over this many times with little progress. I'll say this, no other class in the game is as shoehorned into such a small selection of builds as the sorcerer, no other class has builds that either have a near monopoly on skill morphs or next to no options.

I'll admit zos seems to have a bad history on changes for the class but in order for any progress to be made and for the sorcerer toolkit to be improved, there is a risk that your build will have to be reworked as magicka sorcerers already have almost the entire class to themselves. Also, isn't it self serving to say anyone that is trying to get the class changed is inherently a bad person? This is eso, any class any role, this class can't really stand up to that and changes will come soon*.

I never had a problem with stamina choices for Sorcs, I had a problem with robbing 'magicka' Peter to pay 'stamiina' Paul. No-one is a 'bad person' for wanting their play-style catered to, but that cuts both ways, something a number of stamina build advocates conveniently ignored as they threw mud at their detractors.

I was shouted down and insulted (not by you if I recall) by those supporters of stamina builds who advocated morph changes when I told them magicka builds were going to get hit.

I was right. They were wrong.

No chances of an acknowledgement of that though is there?

I always presumed Zenimax were going to take the easiest route from A to B for THEM - by ploughing straight through established skills and builds currently in use, and that is precisely what they are doing. It's not like there isn't precedent for that conclusion...

The case is proven. Not much more to say really, except how disappointingly predictable this all is.

Nobody really knows what the changes are at this point. Stam sorcs depend on this lightning form more than magicka sorcs do anyway as far as utility goes.

Also - you cant expect the game to never change through patches. Any change would be considered ruining something really.

RinaldoGandolphi

@FENGRUSH

Agreed, i would think changing Boundless Storm to stamina would actually hurt stamina Sorc's. As most Stamina Sorcs have a few spells such as Streak, Boundless Storm, and maybe Hardened Ward that they use and the rest of their skills use Stamina. The Stamina Sorc is using certain skills as utility or defense from his very small mana pool since most of their focus is invested in stamina....taking away this morph will put a greater strain on their stamina pool and giving them less utility from magic making the build overall weaker then it is now.

If they really want to help the Stamina Sorc, they will take the Crystal Blast Morph and turn it into an Instant Cast Melee ability that uses stamina, with a 5m range, does about half the damage of Crystal Frags, but stuns with chance to off balance the target.

Now that makes sense to me, and would actually help the stamina Sorc class immensely.

FENGRUSH

You would imagine @ZOS_BrianWheeler or someone from @ZOS_WhatsEricWrobelsName would come shed a comment in this forum section and acknowledge such comments. Perhaps make a counter argument with why theyre changing the storm (possibly?). If theyre just throwing additional effects on top, its not an issue. But then theyre just further cementing an already well established skill.