Lightning Form - Coming Stamina Morph Concerns

Merlin13KAGL

They could fix all of this with one passive/morph.

Default for any Sorc skill should be magicka based. Add a morphable passive that would allow all class skills to either be:

• Morph A: Full stamina based
• Morph B: Half and half (or higher of the two)

This would allow them to not have to take anything away from either build. Presently, if they go one direction or the other with any skill, the opposing side loses a possibility.

k2blader

Cathexis wrote: »

And id like to add that stamina morphs of critical sorc abilities like bolt, ward, and shard ARE what Stam sorcs need and that in their current state they are basically underpowered nightblades without cloak (with no bolt, no ward, and no long range stamina ability that is not weapon dependant)

I'd like to say that would be freaking stupid. I mean, fo' serious, stamina morphs of bolt, ward, and shard? Why would *any* sorc stay magicka in that case. lol

So sorry NB class doesn't have sorc class abilities. Still not sure why that is! ! !

Anyway, maybe you were joking. The context of your post didn't seem like you were. But if you were, thanks for the laughs! ;-P

jpalm1995

The day any magicka sorc can complain is the day that their shields scale off of health like the rest of the classes. Until then all of you whiny sorcs can stop the QQ

byrom101b16_ESO

jpalm1995 wrote: »

The day any magicka sorc can complain is the day that their shields scale off of health like the rest of the classes. Until then all of you whiny sorcs can stop the QQ

Just read your signature - a Templar & MB player complaining about shields when they only run a part-time vet 13 Sorc.

Nice to know you are well versed in the issue, and not trolling from the point of view of ignorance or any such thing...

RinaldoGandolphi

jpalm1995 wrote: »

The day any magicka sorc can complain is the day that their shields scale off of health like the rest of the classes. Until then all of you whiny sorcs can stop the QQ

Still complaining about Hardened Ward? the only skill that makes a magic Sorc viable?

If you understood the class, then you would know magic Sorcs are REQUIRED to wear Light Armor. Light Armor is paper, Sorc who use magic are shoehorned into wearing paper for armor...without Ward, they wouldn't have a chance. Ward doesn't even really give the same survivability as Med Armor, as even a 13k Ward is crushed in 1-2 hits by any stamina user which is 1 sec or less in PVP.

Magic Sorc's have their own weaknesses such as the majority of their skills being dodgeable, blocking their spells costs nothing in terms of stamina, no way to force down a permablocker's block, weak against tank specs due to no way to drain stamina. graas is always greener on the otherside.

Hardened Ward scales of magic because other Classes have other options for survival, DK can reflect, Templars can Heal, Nightblades and Cloak and move really fast.

Cathexis

k2blader wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

And id like to add that stamina morphs of critical sorc abilities like bolt, ward, and shard ARE what Stam sorcs need and that in their current state they are basically underpowered nightblades without cloak (with no bolt, no ward, and no long range stamina ability that is not weapon dependant)

I'd like to say that would be freaking stupid. I mean, fo' serious, stamina morphs of bolt, ward, and shard? Why would *any* sorc stay magicka in that case. lol

So sorry NB class doesn't have sorc class abilities. Still not sure why that is! ! !

Anyway, maybe you were joking. The context of your post didn't seem like you were. But if you were, thanks for the laughs! ;-P

@k2blader Not joking at all. Sorcs get a lot more benefits toward magika/spell power. Different skills from other skill lines would synergize differently depending on a stamina spec or magicka spec.

Not to mention the fact that just because a morph is a stamina morph doesn't mean that it will function with the exact same skill mechanic.

For example the crystal punch suggestion, or a long range teleport with a predetermined fixed endpoint.

And let's not forget that almost every other skill that sorcs have at their disposal are magicka only, meaning you can only spam those abilities with a mana pool.

I'm not sure if you've looked at stamina sorcs before, but they use maybe 1-2 sorc abilities MAX.

We should have access at bare minimum to the essential sorc skills that define the class.

Also you completely misunderstood what I was saying about Stam sorcs being gimp night blades...

byrom101b16_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Yea it really depends what they plan to do here. This could be a big nerf - but theyve gotta be really stupid to mess this one up.

I would advise you to look at what they have done already to the game and class balance and significantly upwardly revise your estimates on the chances of them messing this up...

Tankqull

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

They could fix all of this with one passive/morph.

Default for any Sorc skill should be magicka based. Add a morphable passive that would allow all class skills to either be:

• Morph A: Full stamina based
• Morph B: Half and half (or higher of the two)

This would allow them to not have to take anything away from either build. Presently, if they go one direction or the other with any skill, the opposing side loses a possibility.

its much easier, just add a third morph to a skill if they feel iit needs a stamina morph.

byrom101b16_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

They could fix all of this with one passive/morph.

Default for any Sorc skill should be magicka based. Add a morphable passive that would allow all class skills to either be:

• Morph A: Full stamina based
• Morph B: Half and half (or higher of the two)

This would allow them to not have to take anything away from either build. Presently, if they go one direction or the other with any skill, the opposing side loses a possibility.

its much easier, just add a third morph to a skill if they feel iit needs a stamina morph.

I suggested this back when the stamina devotees were spamming the forums and shouting everyone else down if they didn't agree.

They thought it 'ridiculous', and Zenimax didn't even acknowledge the suggestion, despite being asked.

They won't do this - it involves too much work despite being a vastly superior method to give everyone options, especially when their teams are deployed more 'usefully' on more Crown Store revenue generating opportunities and briefing their extensive E3 conference teams on how much new content is going to be released soon.... actually, scratch that last one...

FENGRUSH

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Yea it really depends what they plan to do here. This could be a big nerf - but theyve gotta be really stupid to mess this one up.

I would advise you to look at what they have done already to the game and class balance and significantly upwardly revise your estimates on the chances of them messing this up...

That statement may have given a false pretense that FENGRUSH believed they wouldnt mess this up. Already expect this skill to be ruined.

Just saying, they have to be really dumb to mess it up. Fully expect to see it messed up though, just a matter of how bad.

jpalm1995

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

jpalm1995 wrote: »

The day any magicka sorc can complain is the day that their shields scale off of health like the rest of the classes. Until then all of you whiny sorcs can stop the QQ

Still complaining about Hardened Ward? the only skill that makes a magic Sorc viable?

If you understood the class, then you would know magic Sorcs are REQUIRED to wear Light Armor. Light Armor is paper, Sorc who use magic are shoehorned into wearing paper for armor...without Ward, they wouldn't have a chance. Ward doesn't even really give the same survivability as Med Armor, as even a 13k Ward is crushed in 1-2 hits by any stamina user which is 1 sec or less in PVP.

Magic Sorc's have their own weaknesses such as the majority of their skills being dodgeable, blocking their spells costs nothing in terms of stamina, no way to force down a permablocker's block, weak against tank specs due to no way to drain stamina. graas is always greener on the otherside.

Hardened Ward scales of magic because other Classes have other options for survival, DK can reflect, Templars can Heal, Nightblades and Cloak and move really fast.

Aren't templars required to wear light if they want any sort of magicka sustain? So shouldn't their shields scale off of magicka?

Also, a sorc can put magicka det and curse on someone and kill them with that... Last time i checked neither is dodgeable

Sorcs can just stack magicka and get survivabilty, dps, and an escape... The only class in the game that can do so.

Imagine if a nb had a stam version of cloak. They could dodgeroll everywhere, cloak if they wanna get away, and hit like a truck.

cozmon3c_ESO

finally can speak again, for now.....

Stam sorc needs a way to not die instantly to stealth burst damage. (shield or something, not as strong as hardened ward obviously but starting at about 5k would be nice.)
Stam sorc needs a way to not die instantly to JESUS BEAM!!!!! grr worst addition to the game ever imo. dead before even coming out of a dodge roll 99.9% of the time. what kind of ultimate does so much damage at full life like jesus beam, what was that none. oh well i guess its not OP then.

Stam sorc needs a way to get through perma block reliably with out a cast time. (give streak back through block capabilities maybe?)
Stam sorc needs a cheaper bolt escape so we can stack damage more like other classes, aka NB. the cost increase really damages a stam sorcs ability to even be viable.
Stam sorc needs an instant cast melee damage ability for timing between enemy dodge rolls with a knockdown. (crystal blast/punch from that other forum post)

SORC NEEDS SOME STAM SYNERGY PASSIVES, ZOMG GENIUS!!!

After that we should be fine.

Valnas

don't take boundless awayyyy!

crystal blast should be a stam 7-10m version.
pets should be DD fire spell (w/ stam morph) and an instacast disorient/cc that gets thru block(w/stam morph)

Snit

jpalm1995 wrote: »

Also, a sorc can put magicka det and curse on someone and kill them with that... Last time i checked neither is dodgeable

Block.

(Sorry, Cathexis. Stupid nested quotes)

Cathexis

@snit I didn't write that it was jpalm1995

RinaldoGandolphi

jpalm1995 wrote: »

Aren't templars required to wear light if they want any sort of magicka sustain? So shouldn't their shields scale off of magicka?

The Templar's Shield does damage, Blazing Sheild can actually do considerable damage with enough HP and enough points in Bastion not only increases its value, but increases its damage. Hardened Ward doesn't do damage, Blazing Sheild does, they are not the same and not realy meant to be used the same way.

jpalm1995 wrote: »

Also, a sorc can put magicka det and curse on someone and kill them with that... Last time i checked neither is dodgeable

Yes because Curse is the only class skill we have that can't be dodged, and Magic Det is an Alliance War skill, the magic Sorc class spec as a whole is the weakest class in the game against dodge roll builds as most of our bread and butter skills are dodgeable.

jpalm1995 wrote: »

Sorcs can just stack magicka and get survivabilty, dps, and an escape... The only class in the game that can do so.

We are also the only class in the game that doesn't have an instant cast direct damage class skill or an instant cast magic melee skill that can't be dodged, and our entire class is based around delayed damage and having to wait 3.5 secs for damage to go off is an eternity in pvp, and a lot can happen in 3.5 secs...namely being killed.

jpalm1995 wrote: »

Imagine if a nb had a stam version of cloak. They could dodgeroll everywhere, cloak if they wanna get away, and hit like a truck.

Nightblades actually get a Stealth damage bonus on their first attack 99% of the time, Sorc's get no such stealth damage bonus nor free stun like a NB gets from the said stealth attack, as well as being able to re-enter stealth during combat, on top of being able to dodge roll forever and vanish.

Fact is the largest QQ about Hardened Ward comes from Nightblades because it can ruin their chances to insta-kill.

Tankqull

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

We are also the only class in the game that doesn't have an instant cast direct damage class skill or an instant cast magic melee skill that can't be dodged, and our entire class is based around delayed damage and having to wait 3.5 secs for damage to go off is an eternity in pvp, and a lot can happen in 3.5 secs...namely being killed.

and that is actually one of the things people complain the most about as our dmg is not delivered consecutivly as all other classes but piled up - bad players do not realize that and are insta gibbed while better player just block the burst every 4-5 sec entirely bringing down that dmg to laughable values.

Domander

I think magicka sorcs have enough mobility already with bolt escape.

iTzStevey

Why would you want a stamina build as a sorc anyway? Sorcerers are all about magic and should always be about magic.

Cathexis

iTzStevey wrote: »

Why would you want a stamina build as a sorc anyway? Sorcerers are all about magic and should always be about magic.

@iTzStevey This has never been true until 1.6. I call bull shjt. Stam sorcs should continue to be just as viable as mag sorcs (or rather hybrid sorcs which are now forced stam)

cschwingeb14_ESO

Is this even really am issue. Right now stam sorcs can use a magicka based lightning form. If the cost isn't ridiculous, magicka sorcs could use a stam based lightning form. It's not as if the current damage is what anyone uses it for. And if the stam version gets a big damage but, then the damage will be OK even for magicka sorcs

ToRelax

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Is this even really am issue. Right now stam sorcs can use a magicka based lightning form. If the cost isn't ridiculous, magicka sorcs could use a stam based lightning form. It's not as if the current damage is what anyone uses it for. And if the stam version gets a big damage but, then the damage will be OK even for magicka sorcs

It's an issue that they don't understand their own game
Just making that skill cost stamina would hurt stamina and magicka Sorcs.
One can hope it's just one of many changes and actually makes sense considering the rest we don't know of yet, but that sounds very unlikely.

Cathexis

@cschwingeb14_ESO I feel like "high damage stamina lightning form" will be a relative to its current low [split] damage more so than high damage that is viable for something. Especially if it stays lightning damage because what stamina sorc has freaking spell pierce

[Edit to remove profanity]

cschwingeb14_ESO

Spell Pierce could indeed be an issue. More of a problem would be if they mess with the duration, because they think that high damage means it should only last 5 seconds.

CP5

ToRelax wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Is this even really am issue. Right now stam sorcs can use a magicka based lightning form. If the cost isn't ridiculous, magicka sorcs could use a stam based lightning form. It's not as if the current damage is what anyone uses it for. And if the stam version gets a big damage but, then the damage will be OK even for magicka sorcs

It's an issue that they don't understand their own game
Just making that skill cost stamina would hurt stamina and magicka Sorcs.
One can hope it's just one of many changes and actually makes sense considering the rest we don't know of yet, but that sounds very unlikely.

This is the same team that said pre 1.6 that "sorc burst damage is fine" then went to buff sorc spell power, frag procs and curse.

Tankqull

CP5 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Is this even really am issue. Right now stam sorcs can use a magicka based lightning form. If the cost isn't ridiculous, magicka sorcs could use a stam based lightning form. It's not as if the current damage is what anyone uses it for. And if the stam version gets a big damage but, then the damage will be OK even for magicka sorcs

It's an issue that they don't understand their own game
Just making that skill cost stamina would hurt stamina and magicka Sorcs.
One can hope it's just one of many changes and actually makes sense considering the rest we don't know of yet, but that sounds very unlikely.

This is the same team that said pre 1.6 that "sorc burst damage is fine" then went to buff sorc spell power, frag procs and curse.

curse was actually nerfed then buffed, its dmg despite we were told to be increased lost 10-15% dmg in its transition through 1.6, ontop of that it got changed to be affected by blocking(same for fury the only way for sorcs to deal with perma blockers as sorcs are the only class without an option to break blocking like any other class has access to [DK: petrify, NB: mass hysteria, Temp: shards, Sorc: rune prison cast with the hihgest remaining CT in game] as streak the prevous choice got changed to not work that way thx to the change to be a stun now instead of a disable)

but beside that i totally agree i would love to see burst to be lowered (across the board - yes i´m looking at you too beloved NBs) for a significant increase of Sorcs DPS (out side of spamming power overload light attacks)

Hypertionb14_ESO

Both Morphs of the spell should probably remain magicka... there is no DPS benefit to the spell beyond its minor DOT and the small chance of Disintegrate procs on it.

its use is more akin to DK spiked armor and NB Blur. both of which use magicka.

more helpful would be changing the Pets to have stamina morphs. or allowing them to naturally scale on which ever is higher. (allowing for Ranger style builds with bow and pets)

another option is a total redo on one of the morphs of Mages Fury, Adding the old Endless fury effect to Wrath, and changing the Endless morph into a short lived (8s or so) stamina powered buff that causes light and heavy attacks to be able to trigger the explosion on hitting below 20% health targets.

Crystal Blast could be changed in the same way, a Self buff that empowers all attacks with extra damage with a AOE (less inital Damage than currently to balance it)

Erock25

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

Both Morphs of the spell should probably remain magicka... there is no DPS benefit to the spell beyond its minor DOT and the small chance of Disintegrate procs on it.

its use is more akin to DK spiked armor and NB Blur. both of which use magicka.

more helpful would be changing the Pets to have stamina morphs. or allowing them to naturally scale on which ever is higher. (allowing for Ranger style builds with bow and pets)

another option is a total redo on one of the morphs of Mages Fury, Adding the old Endless fury effect to Wrath, and changing the Endless morph into a short lived (8s or so) stamina powered buff that causes light and heavy attacks to be able to trigger the explosion on hitting below 20% health targets.

Crystal Blast could be changed in the same way, a Self buff that empowers all attacks with extra damage with a AOE (less inital Damage than currently to balance it)

The DPS from Thundering Presence is nothing to sneeze at in a magicka spec. It is a nice PVE DPS buff if you can stay in range. It doesn't quite translate as well to PVP because it isn't much burst.

dodgehopper_ESO

I wonder what it would be like if some abilities actually drew from both Stamina and Magicka, and the magnitude of the different effects within that power were based upon each. For example perhaps speed boost would scale off of stamina and the lightning effect could scale off of Magicka. I just had this thought a moment ago, and it occurs to me that they could do this with a lot of abilities, not just for Sorcerers and Boundless Storm.

ch.ris317b14_ESO

Un-nerf crit surge and make that morph stamina based... voila Stamina sorc