Why is Nirnhoned Still Not Fixed?

TheBull

Because casters easily can have 21k+ spell pen, and without nirn even tanks would be naked making magicka burst insane.

The entire pen/resist system is screwed. It will all be reworked when nirn is reduced.

Glurin

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

ok... first off, the base effect of nirnhoned, where it increases your overall spell resist is fine..

however, the levels of what it does is not.. 25% added spell resist for a single peice is way too much..
i honestly think ZOS didnt really expect people to stack it like this.

Then one has to ask if any one of them played an MMO in the past five years. Either stacking a stat to infinity or not using it at all is virtually the only way people know how to play anymore. The whole concept of using a stat but not maxing it out has become downright offensive to some. Even as the consequences of min/max are slapping them in the face. Come to think of it, the concept seems to get even more offensive to them when they are faced with that reality.

Erock25

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

On one of the ESO lives Jessica, if I remember correctly, said that the next major update will be like a week after console

@whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO or anyone else can confirm this information? I did not see anywhere that ZOS gave a time frame for when the 'next major update' would be hitting PC after console release.

Rook_Master

Patch 2.0.10

Still no Nirnhoned fix...

Francescolg

Yes, player can spec for magic Penetration but it should also be compared to all class's ability to penetrante (physical) armor.
You always focus on the damage potential of magicka vs. stamina spec's which clearly favor stamina (see the spell dmg. vs. weapon dmg thread), while not also considering the Penetration "possibilities" of stamina and magicka builds, which Imo also favor stamina builds. Are those two balanced? Personally, I don't know :-)

Eglath

Well Nirn is broken, we all know it. Good option would be cap nirnhorned at mitigaton cap (32 or 34k, don't remember exactly), so nirn won't exceed hard cap.
And make reinforced work same way as nirnhorned works now, so add 20sth% to total armor, and this will increase TTK as well.

ToRelax

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154947/hotfix-3-4-15-survey-reports-and-lightning-splash
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155801/3-7-15-hotfixes-and-cyrodiil-bonuses
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/168422/hotfix-4-28-15-fungal-grotto-mudcrabs
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/170449/hotfix-5-12-15-bear-traps-against-the-mantikora

k2blader

Rook_Master wrote: »

Patch 2.0.10

Still no Nirnhoned fix...

Show of hands-- who's choosing not to "utilize" it?

I think to use it is the same as doing any other exploit, i.e. killing the game by making it not fun.

Armitas

k2blader wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Patch 2.0.10

Still no Nirnhoned fix...

Show of hands-- who's choosing not to "utilize" it?

intentionally not using it, and I can easily afford to get it if I want it.

^This makes me dumb more so than honorable imo, but whatevs, still my choice.

pkb16_ESO2

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Because you can't nerf nirn alone. You have to do some balancing at the same time, otherwise every magika build will become a oneshot build

What? thats nonsense.

the Crystal Frag Proc bug has been fixed for quite sometime. That was the only thing allowing some Sorc's to hit really hard.

there is nothing else to balance, Stamina hits much harder then Magic since the Frag Proc bug was fixed.

another nerf Sorc thread...veiled as addressing "balance issues" imagine that.

What nonsense are you talking???
I got hit by a CF for 19K the other day and i use 1 piece Nirn.
And Yes nerf sorcs!

But still its true Nirn needs to be fixed! .

Domander

TheBull wrote: »

Because casters easily can have 21k+ spell pen, and without nirn even tanks would be naked making magicka burst insane.

The entire pen/resist system is screwed. It will all be reworked when nirn is reduced.

Do you know how much you have to give up to get that?

Apprentice stone instead of something like the atronach

nirn weapon

light armor instead of something more sturdy

need to use one of the few spell resistance debuffs



ALL NEGATED BECAUSE OF AN ARMOR TRAIT??

Now what about those who don't build around max spell penetration, but still want to be magicka? Someone in light armor should have max (tank) mitigation just because they used this armor trait?

It's crap, and it needs fixed.

wafcatb14_ESO

You guys need to buy more junk in the crown store so they can afford to hire someone to fix bugs.

everyone else is designing new stuff to sell in the crown store so they can make that house payment and buy groceries this month.

Zanen

I don't think buffing reinforced would give us the desired effect now that armor and spell resist are linked.

What the game needs is a new trait that works just like nirnhoned for physical mitigation. This solves a ton of problems all at once because then it would require a lot of slots to reach mitigation caps on both, meaning more crafted gear and less damage stacking in the pvp meta, significantly increasing TTK and build diversity. Light armor characters would not be able to reach both mitigation caps, and heavy armor would be able to reach them easily leaving them more freedom to use dropped sets.

Of course, implementing a whole new trait and mat hunt is more work than just nerfing the one that they already created, it might be better to release it with a major update in a new zone...

If that's not the plan ZOS it should be.

Dru1076

This issue has been raised and raised again over and over, going back many patches. Judging by the fact that nothing has been done, I think we must assume nothing will be. Time to nirn up lads... Maybe if EVERYONE used it, then Zos will take some sort of action to make it more reasonable.

Xsorus

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Jules

100% agree. Can't believe its gone on this long. Really shows how little ZOS cares.

Dru1076

I guess what I really meant to say is Zos obviously isn't changing this, and so one can safely assume this nirnhoned thing is WAI. Just like perma dodge, Jesus beam, etc...

It's all part of the plan...

ToRelax

Zanen wrote: »

I don't think buffing reinforced would give us the desired effect now that armor and spell resist are linked.

What the game needs is a new trait that works just like nirnhoned for physical mitigation. This solves a ton of problems all at once because then it would require a lot of slots to reach mitigation caps on both, meaning more crafted gear and less damage stacking in the pvp meta, significantly increasing TTK and build diversity. Light armor characters would not be able to reach both mitigation caps, and heavy armor would be able to reach them easily leaving them more freedom to use dropped sets.

Of course, implementing a whole new trait and mat hunt is more work than just nerfing the one that they already created, it might be better to release it with a major update in a new zone...

If that's not the plan ZOS it should be.

That would not just increase TTK.

That would make any decent player virtually unkillable in 1v1 and small scale fights extremely boring.

Edit:
To make that clear, I am not happy with the very short TTK. But the solution must limit the skills players can use more in some way, like the much tougher resource management in 1.5.

trimsic_ESO

Rook_Master wrote: »

Adding a few traits to your armor completely trivializes all spell damage in the game, and breaks PvP balance. This will be fixed "probably in the next major content update."

A fast method of gaining XP is made public knowledge, and it is HOTFIXED THE SAME DAY.

Nirnhoned armor needs to be fixed yesterday, certainly not in the next major content update. Magicka builds are completely broken in PvP because of the insane amount of spell resistance you can get by throwing on some nirnhoned armor. And the fix is so simple, just make the percentage bonus apply to the individual armor piece. Done. Nirnhoned is fixed.

It's really unbelievable that it has gone on for this long.

The answer to your question is trivial: as people continue to deal a lot of damage with their magicka spells, even on targets that have equipped a nirnhoned armor, don't expect nirnhoned to be fixed outside the context of a general balance patch.

Domander

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

kijima

Didn't you know, nirnhoned isn't broken.

jelliedsoup

Most toons i see destroying are still magicka based. Now you get some burst stam nbs which makes everyone mad.

I can only think of one stam dk who tears things up. Everyone else is magicka.

Xsorus

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

Joy_Division

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

You are definitely traumatized by some bad experience you had with a sorc...probably with their broken nirn staff and broken crystal frags proc.

Xsorus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

You are definitely traumatized by some bad experience you had with a sorc...probably with their broken nirn staff and broken crystal frags proc.

Or i've actually pvped since 1.6....as both a Stamina User and a Magicka User and understand why they're aren't throwing in a fix for nirnhoned before they do a rebalance.

You realize how screwed a lot of Stamina Users would be without Nirnhoned right now would be against something like a Magicka DK for example who can flame lash even the high resist people for 4 or 5k a pop? The ones without Nirnhoned I bloody crit for close to 9k....This is when they have 18k-20k Health...They can't dodge it either...

Or God...Prox Detonation... without Nirnhoned working the way it does right now.

Though I find it funny you went right to thinking I was just talking about sorcs...When in reality if Nirnhoned didn't exist all Magicka Users would be way over the top right now.

Sorcs would just be the ones most on the top.

Domander

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

Magicka works as well as stamina against anyone that's not spell resist capped, otherwise you're doing half damage. Have you been up against it? your attacks will literally do half damage. You going to kill someone with 2.5k lashes? I mean unless they have 0 healiing. (oh and that's if they are NOT blocking) If I could get 50k armor... who cares if the enemy has 20k penetration? LOL

maybe not everyone wants to be stamina? that's why you see a lot? On my DK, I did not like the stamina playstyle, I love magicka, I used to switch between them before 1.6 for my bow build when I needed the range. I can't really do that anymore.

On my sorc, I'm going stam

Domander

Xsorus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Playing a Magicka and Stamina User this patch...if you don't know why Nirnhoned hasn't been changed yet you clearly haven't pvped this patch.

Pvp is kinda ruined for anyone magicka based, at least vs those exploiting it.

If you don't think so, give me 40 or 50k armor.

Really? Because i see countless Magicka Sorcs/DKs/Templars out there

In fact my Magicka Dk is better then my Stamina DK.

As for you wanting 40 to 50k armor..You going to give everyone 20k+ Armor Pen like ya have Spell Pen? No?

You are definitely traumatized by some bad experience you had with a sorc...probably with their broken nirn staff and broken crystal frags proc.

Or i've actually pvped since 1.6....as both a Stamina User and a Magicka User and understand why they're aren't throwing in a fix for nirnhoned before they do a rebalance.

You realize how screwed a lot of Stamina Users would be without Nirnhoned right now would be against something like a Magicka DK for example who can flame lash even the high resist people for 4 or 5k a pop? The ones without Nirnhoned I bloody crit for close to 9k....This is when they have 18k-20k Health...They can't dodge it either...

Or God...Prox Detonation... without Nirnhoned working the way it does right now.

Though I find it funny you went right to thinking I was just talking about sorcs...When in reality if Nirnhoned didn't exist all Magicka Users would be way over the top right now.

Sorcs would just be the ones most on the top.

Magicka doesn't do more damage than stamina... in fact it's the other way around.

Alcast

Erock25 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

On one of the ESO lives Jessica, if I remember correctly, said that the next major update will be like a week after console

@whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO or anyone else can confirm this information? I did not see anywhere that ZOS gave a time frame for when the 'next major update' would be hitting PC after console release.

I remember them saying that too, Next major updated which will be 2-3Months after console release

Septimus_Magna

Alcast wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

On one of the ESO lives Jessica, if I remember correctly, said that the next major update will be like a week after console

@whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO or anyone else can confirm this information? I did not see anywhere that ZOS gave a time frame for when the 'next major update' would be hitting PC after console release.

I remember them saying that too, Next major updated which will be 2-3Months after console release

Yup, the Nirnhoned trait will be adjusted to be more in line with the other traits in the next major content update.

If they dail down the values on nirn items it should be fine, spell resist of 30k might seem like a lot but basic spell penetration is something around 12-13k so almost half is easily ignored.

The main issue is the lack of physical resistance from the Reinforced trait, if they buff Reinforced the TTK in pvp will become longer which will prevent people from getting one-shot by gankers etc.

Cinbri

While i agree that nirnohoned need fix coz it is imbalance, i also afraid what will happen after it will be fixed coz with my current 52k spellresist and stacked Hardy CP crystal fragments still crits me for 14-16k damage even after stuck empower fix(was it even fixed?); this means if i don't have defensive stance or Eclipse i will be dead for 100% after blocking will drain all my stamina; and - no, i not talking about emperor sorc. (So fixing nirn without fixing balance would be devastating and only bring back Era of Sorcs Online)