Since eveyone feels Cloak is OP

eNumbra

ToRelax wrote: »

Tyvm, I had no clue you could make such a potion... now think again about why I wrote what I wrote maybe.

Oh I know why you wrote it; but the comparison wasn't completely apt since it's not a distinct choice drawn between the two options.

You believe cloak is too powerful, that's great, it's great to have opinions, opinions are great.

The problem lies here.

Everyone can use a speed buff or potion and/or Crit Charge to keep up with a Bolt Escaping Sorc.

Now compare that to Cloak, in wich case I have to make a choice between regaining resources or revealing the NB with a potion. See the difference?

Everyone can also use a Detect potion to keep up with a cloaking NB.

ToRelax

eNumbra wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Tyvm, I had no clue you could make such a potion... now think again about why I wrote what I wrote maybe.

Oh I know why you wrote it; but the comparison wasn't completely apt since it's not a distinct choice drawn between the two options.

You believe cloak is too powerful, that's great, it's great to have opinions, opinions are great.

The problem lies here.

Everyone can use a speed buff or potion and/or Crit Charge to keep up with a Bolt Escaping Sorc.

Now compare that to Cloak, in wich case I have to make a choice between regaining resources or revealing the NB with a potion. See the difference?

Everyone can also use a Detect potion to keep up with a cloaking NB.

Ah, now we get to a real point.
You are absolutely right here, the difference is that it is easier to counter Bolt Escape than Cloak if your build is not layed out for it and also easier to counter Bolt Escape than Cloak if your build is indeed using the "right" skills to deal with it (without loosing the resources of a tripot).

Counters to Cloak are AoE (some work well like streak or Sap/Draw Essence, Caltrops, some less well), Flare (a joke of a skill), Radiant Magelight (easy to get out of with Shadow Image/dodgeroll and into with Teleport Strike). Also some skills seem to pull players out of Cloak consistently without hitting them, looks like a bug to me.

Counters to Bolt Escape are gap closers (except Fiery Grip) and simply high speed, achievable with dodge roll cancelled speed buffs while on a bow + sprint.

These will both only counter the "escape" part of those skills - Cloak will still purge and force misses, Bolt Escape will still cc and damage/absorb.

If you counter Cloak by using a different potion, you have less resources at your disposal than the NB using Cloak - at least if it's a magicka NB, a stamina NB will use a lot of his magicka for that Cloak. I could say that stamina build would likely have higher regens overall than you anyway and Cloak is not a big deal to him, but that's a fair tradeoff he already chose. So we stay with magicka NBs, who have a lot of cost reduction.

Now we compare that to Bolt Escape. One Bolt Escape isn't very expensive, it's quite a bit for a stamina Sorc, but even than not as much as Lightning Form for example, and for a magicka Sorc the cost is very low.
But you can not escape with only a few Bolt Escapes if the enemy is willing to chase. Cloak works better than, 2-4 Cloaks in a row and if you are not detected during that time you could be anywhere now. As opposed to the Sorcerer that you can clearly see all the time.
And other than Cloak, it is always more cost efficient to chase a Sorc who spams Bolt Escape by using medium armor/bow rolls/speedbuffs and/or a charge skill, than it is to spam Bolt Escape. The Sorc will run out of magicka if you manage to stay on him, the NB will not.

(Both will have to use other defensive moves like heals/shields so they don't die while trying to escape.)

So you see my point?
You loose less resources countering Bolt Escape than the Sorc trying to escape with it and more than the cloaking NB when you try to counter Cloak. Aside from the more common and working counters to Bolt Escape - as CLoak is still broken by some things it shouldn't be.

Edit:
I forgot mentioning Mark Target as counter to cloak - that is obviously a very cheap and effective counter, even hard to purge because it counts as several debuffs now. This is a lot cheaper than other counters, too, besides Radiant Magelight, wich takes 2 skills slots though. However, it is only accessible to one class, and actually the same class that got Cloak in the first place.

Xsorus

I don't know..whenever I go PVP i bring about 200 Detection Pots with me..and nightblades are by far my most killed class out of all the other classes..Even more then DK's...followed by templars and Finally Sorcs who are usually a waste of time to try and kill.

If Detect pots didn't exist...Dark Cloak would be insanely op...but as long as those pots exist its fairly balanced.

Xsorus

TheBucket wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

A thread like this is hilarious!!! NB cloak OP HA!! Sounds like a L2P issue here

ha sounds like some dude who just restealths all the damn time even if you tickle him. sounds like you need to try and play a class agaisnt these cloakers that cannot cloak as well and see how it is. l2p and learn to see that this cloak is not broken.

You have abilities that break cloak. I rolled a Nightblade to be able to use their only defensive ability cloak. If I wanted shields to be my defense I would of rolled a Sorc. If I wanted heals... A templar.... etc.

Cloak is not OP. The fact that we now have perma regen is the issue. Just like other classes having the same resources for their defense ability.

Can I stay in cloak forever? Yes.

Can other classes kill me still? Yes

Burst is just as high with other classes

You could always perma cloak, even in 1.5...I'd run across the map if I wanted spamming Dark Cloak

Lava_Croft

Poor Cloak. Behave in the same unreliable way as you have always done, receive more counters than ever with 1.6, get whined at for being OP more than ever before.

ForTheRealm

Zsymon wrote: »

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

NBs do have some self heals like: Swallow Soul, or Refreshing Path. They might not heal a lot abut they do.
Cloak is much better than any shield in the game: shield can mitigate some damage while cloak prevents from taking any damage. Not mentioning it is an awesome mean to escape.

Except you can attack someone while shielded, where as a NB will take full damage with zero mitigation as soon as he starts attacking.

Are you serious? You are saying NB cannot do good damage when using cloak?!
But, it's OK maybe you are still learning the class.
Please watch some example 1vX videos for magicka and stamina NB builds effectively utilizing Cloak and doing a lot of damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3tx9egDpMM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imfHM7Aezm4

Kypho

Cloak is OP, PERIOD!!!!!!

why? because a friend of my friend told me, that his friend saw NB used cloak.

cozmon3c_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Poor Cloak. Behave in the same unreliable way as you have always done, receive more counters than ever with 1.6, get whined at for being OP more than ever before.

thats because the detection radius of potions and magelight took a huge nerf, you have to be standing on the NB for it even to see them now.

TheBucket

Xsorus wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

A thread like this is hilarious!!! NB cloak OP HA!! Sounds like a L2P issue here

ha sounds like some dude who just restealths all the damn time even if you tickle him. sounds like you need to try and play a class agaisnt these cloakers that cannot cloak as well and see how it is. l2p and learn to see that this cloak is not broken.

You have abilities that break cloak. I rolled a Nightblade to be able to use their only defensive ability cloak. If I wanted shields to be my defense I would of rolled a Sorc. If I wanted heals... A templar.... etc.

Cloak is not OP. The fact that we now have perma regen is the issue. Just like other classes having the same resources for their defense ability.

Can I stay in cloak forever? Yes.

Can other classes kill me still? Yes

Burst is just as high with other classes

You could always perma cloak, even in 1.5...I'd run across the map if I wanted spamming Dark Cloak

Yes, but now I can actually attack consistently without ever breaking out of cloak. Not just for traveling.