Barrier needs a nerf

Erondil

1) Make it so Negate disables ennemy shields as it disable ground aoes.
2) Decrease barrier's shield by 20% (20k instead of 25, still a very good shield)
3) Barrier's strength decreases with the amount of players hitted, as others aoe does : 100% strength for the 6 first players, 75% for the 6 next etc.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Tintinabula wrote: »

barrier I believe needs target cap..if you want an entire zerg to have barrier you need to split the zerg up and have them separate into barrier groups..Purge?..not for sure about purge considering siege damage now.

Every one should have a DoT purge on their one of their bars I don't know a single stamina Nightblade that doesn't use Dark Cloak to remove DoTs and it cost around the same as purge and good heal and purge should be a thing we all just have just for the numbers I have 9k~ magic rarely die from siege unless lag starts and seconds count

Kas

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

barrier I believe needs target cap..if you want an entire zerg to have barrier you need to split the zerg up and have them separate into barrier groups..Purge?..not for sure about purge considering siege damage now.

Every one should have a DoT purge on their one of their bars I don't know a single stamina Nightblade that doesn't use Dark Cloak to remove DoTs and it cost around the same as purge and good heal and purge should be a thing we all just have just for the numbers I have 9k~ magic rarely die from siege unless lag starts and seconds count

damage shields & siege is not about the dot.
two trebs hitting a spot at the same time (e.g. a breach, flag, stairs, whatever) will kill everything that has no damage shield or absurdly high HP (way above 30k). Armor, blocking, etc. Nothing helps.

Now, if there are two trebs shooting at the same time, it's eay to dodge if you take care. if there are 10+ enemy siege weapons it becomes "difficult". Add some lag / problems with particles and maybe even friendly siege that has the same visual effect plus red circle, and without damage shields, eso pvp is back to

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

True but purge and self heals go a long way hoping the guy next to you can save you is not very safe

Lava_Croft

Erondil wrote: »

1) Make it so Negate disable on use absorbs shields aswell

You mean use Negate to disable Sorc's Ward?

Erondil

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

1) Make it so Negate disable on use absorbs shields aswell

You mean use Negate to disable Sorc's Ward?

Every ennemy shield as it disable ground aoe. Where is your joke?

Sublime

Erondil wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

1) Make it so Negate disable on use absorbs shields aswell

You mean use Negate to disable Sorc's Ward?

Every ennemy shield as it disable ground aoe. Where is your joke?

Scales as well please.
Meteor also has kind of an AOE. :P

Erondil

Sublime wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

1) Make it so Negate disable on use absorbs shields aswell

You mean use Negate to disable Sorc's Ward?

Every ennemy shield as it disable ground aoe. Where is your joke?

Scales as well please.
Meteor also has kind of an AOE. :P

If you want, honnestly idc. Just wanted to point out that barrier should be negated by Negate and seemed normal to negates others shields if barrier is negated.
1) Negate removes barrier and all what its removes now or 2) Negate removes equally every ennemy buffs (shields, scales, cloak, major sorcellery, batswarm etc)
This would incent sorcs to use negate again (and so less barriers) and dk/temp/nb to use their banners, nova or vob.

AbraXuSeXile

You guys are stupid asking for a barrier nerf especially when healing in this game is so horrible.

Just sayin'

Sublime

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

You guys are stupid asking for a barrier nerf especially when healing in this game is so horrible.

Just sayin'

In what way is healing horrible?

Erondil

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

You guys are stupid asking for a barrier nerf especially when healing in this game is so horrible.

Just sayin'

When I see a 24-men raid with 24 barrier I just wonder if its normal.

Iyas

Barrier needs a nerf. Cap it to 12 ppl so the pve folk cant cry.

Everything >8 = zerg (daoc rule).

ToRelax

Iyas wrote: »

Barrier needs a nerf. Cap it to 12 ppl so the pve folk cant cry.

Everything >8 = zerg (daoc rule).

It's in the alliance war skill tree, PvE balance just becomes better if those skills are not the optimal choice for PvE.
Seriously, not over 6 targets, please.

Lava_Croft

Iyas wrote: »

Barrier needs a nerf. Cap it to 12 ppl so the pve folk cant cry.

Everything >8 = zerg (daoc rule).

Too bad this isn't DaoC and its rules don't apply here.

themdogesbite

Bumping this thread. Barrier needs to be changed.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Barrier is just stupid as it works now.

noobfury

Curious if anyone has mentioned the Chillrend ep bot train zerg in previous posts. You can literally run behind that swarm and not be attacked unless you draw aggro . Of course there are a few actual players running with the bots that will break off and fight now and then but usually everyone just hides from it when it comes through. I believe they use barrier with that also.

Teargrants

noobfury wrote: »

Curious if anyone has mentioned the Chillrend ep bot train zerg in previous posts. You can literally run behind that swarm and not be attacked unless you draw aggro . Of course there are a few actual players running with the bots that will break off and fight now and then but usually everyone just hides from it when it comes through. I believe they use barrier with that also.

Sanct16

So how about let barrier remain on 24 player cap but reduce the strength based on allies hit?

At the moment barrier gets more effective the closer you come to its target cap so for a full raid a single barrier gives around 500'000 points of shield while for an 8 man group it is only 160'000 which means large groups are heavily favored.

I suggest the following change:
"provides a damageshield of 120'000 split on nearby allies within x meters. The maximum amount of shield each player can obtain is 20'000".
This means that a 24man group needs more players using barrier to get the same amount of shield per player but it still can be used to give the whole group a shield so you don't have people dieing after a siege hit.

Used on an full raid the barrier would give everyone 120000/24 = 5000 points of shield which seems reasonable to me. Large groups would still have the advantage of having more damage but it would reduce their survivability to an extend to where a smaller group of better players might be able to take a win without having to catch them off guard. I agree that numbers should give you an advantage but I am of the opinion that it should not be an I win button.

Garion

Sanct16 wrote: »

So how about let barrier remain on 24 player cap but reduce the strength based on allies hit?

At the moment barrier gets more effective the closer you come to its target cap so for a full raid a single barrier gives around 500'000 points of shield while for an 8 man group it is only 160'000 which means large groups are heavily favored.

I suggest the following change:
"provides a damageshield of 120'000 split on nearby allies within x meters. The maximum amount of shield each player can obtain is 20'000".
This means that a 24man group needs more players using barrier to get the same amount of shield per player but it still can be used to give the whole group a shield so you don't have people dieing after a siege hit.

Used on an full raid the barrier would give everyone 120000/24 = 5000 points of shield which seems reasonable to me. Large groups would still have the advantage of having more damage but it would reduce their survivability to an extend to where a smaller group of better players might be able to take a win without having to catch them off guard. I agree that numbers should give you an advantage but I am of the opinion that it should not be an I win button.

I love this idea

WRX

Well I am not going to read through this whole thread, but for anyone thats complaining in here, I would like to remind you barrier already got a SUBSTANTIAL nerf.

Barrier is fine, it does its job well. I believe the issue is the size of groups in cyrodiil. <17 or bust

Soulac

WRX wrote: »

Well I am not going to read through this whole thread, but for anyone thats complaining in here, I would like to remind you barrier already got a SUBSTANTIAL nerf.

Barrier is fine, it does its job well. I believe the issue is the size of groups in cyrodiil. <17 or bust

Barrier is not fine.
You either kill a large group in a matter of seconds or you will lose against their barrier spam.
While you deal less dmg against most of the 24 ppl using AoE, they get full Shield strength.

glak

Erondil wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

1) Make it so Negate disable on use absorbs shields aswell

You mean use Negate to disable Sorc's Ward?

Every ennemy shield as it disable ground aoe. Where is your joke?

Just seems ironic to want one iconic Sorc ability to negate another iconic Sorc ability.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Your don't got to nerf it if they put in a counter to it, something that will work on all absorb effects preferably. An offensive purge morph please? Its the only form of defense that currently has no counter outside of EXTREME dps, which we all know counters everything so that is a bit silly. We all also know in the back of our minds this phase of extreme dps will be fixed, so something has to be done about this. Having an offensive purge wouldn't really work in a 1v1 because they could just put it back up before you get in any dps, but it would be useful to support teammates trying to kill a fleeing sorc. Yeah I derailed the topic to try and push my agenda idc. It is the same dang problem really just on a smaller scale.

ToRelax

Sanct16 wrote: »

So how about let barrier remain on 24 player cap but reduce the strength based on allies hit?

At the moment barrier gets more effective the closer you come to its target cap so for a full raid a single barrier gives around 500'000 points of shield while for an 8 man group it is only 160'000 which means large groups are heavily favored.

I suggest the following change:
"provides a damageshield of 120'000 split on nearby allies within x meters. The maximum amount of shield each player can obtain is 20'000".
This means that a 24man group needs more players using barrier to get the same amount of shield per player but it still can be used to give the whole group a shield so you don't have people dieing after a siege hit.

Used on an full raid the barrier would give everyone 120000/24 = 5000 points of shield which seems reasonable to me. Large groups would still have the advantage of having more damage but it would reduce their survivability to an extend to where a smaller group of better players might be able to take a win without having to catch them off guard. I agree that numbers should give you an advantage but I am of the opinion that it should not be an I win button.

I like that.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Your don't got to nerf it if they put in a counter to it, something that will work on all absorb effects preferably. An offensive purge morph please? Its the only form of defense that currently has no counter outside of EXTREME dps, which we all know counters everything so that is a bit silly. We all also know in the back of our minds this phase of extreme dps will be fixed, so something has to be done about this. Having an offensive purge wouldn't really work in a 1v1 because they could just put it back up before you get in any dps, but it would be useful to support teammates trying to kill a fleeing sorc. Yeah I derailed the topic to try and push my agenda idc. It is the same dang problem really just on a smaller scale.

It's not at all the same problem, this thread is about a problem you face while being outnumbered.

Smcdonald09

-Edit-

Idea posted before

Derra

Lorkhan wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

this only affect zerg vs zerg fights
if you are a small group, zerg will destroy you anyway

edit: as it should. beacuse of numbers. i know you alone want to destroy 24 enemies at once, but i dont think it is fair at all

300, watch it.

yes, they stack too.

Black hawk down might be a better example of what soulac was trying to showcase.

Baconlad

My raid group uses this ability, but to be honest we use it as a way to combat groups of 24+ at choke points to push past the siege/ aoe skills that are placed down on said choke points, like fort wall breaches, gates. Even still, we can't really use it in an open field as its not realm THAT good, it provides us just a handful of seconds of damage immunity to punch through mindless aoe siege spam. After the initial punch through the breach its pretty much worn down and we have to use our healers and tactics to go from one enemy flank to the next to get to our objective, we have fought through other raid groups using the skill this way as well. On both ends of defending and offending we have both failed and succeeded. So I say don't touch the ability. Fine as is, if ANYTHING raise the ult cost on it, maybe double it, but its fine. I can't imagine how unfair pushing through a keep wall or gate would be against even 8 player enemies if we didn't have an effective way to get around the mindless siege spam at the choke points...ugh

ToRelax

Baconlad wrote: »

My raid group uses this ability, but to be honest we use it as a way to combat groups of 24+ at choke points to push past the siege/ aoe skills that are placed down on said choke points, like fort wall breaches, gates. Even still, we can't really use it in an open field as its not realm THAT good, it provides us just a handful of seconds of damage immunity to punch through mindless aoe siege spam. After the initial punch through the breach its pretty much worn down and we have to use our healers and tactics to go from one enemy flank to the next to get to our objective, we have fought through other raid groups using the skill this way as well. On both ends of defending and offending we have both failed and succeeded. So I say don't touch the ability. Fine as is, if ANYTHING raise the ult cost on it, maybe double it, but its fine. I can't imagine how unfair pushing through a keep wall or gate would be against even 8 player enemies if we didn't have an effective way to get around the mindless siege spam at the choke points...ugh

So you say because one cast of that ultimate from one player just makes you able to walk through focused siege fire at a choke point, the ability is fine.

Vizier

Erondil wrote: »

1) Make it so Negate disables ennemy shields as it disable ground aoes.
2) Decrease barrier's shield by 20% (20k instead of 25, still a very good shield)
3) Barrier's strength decreases with the amount of players hitted, as others aoe does : 100% strength for the 6 first players, 75% for the 6 next etc.

This-

If you can't negate barrier that should be changed immediately.

On one hand ZoS increased siege weapon damage to discourage blobbing and then provide two skills that pretty much keep groups alive no matter what hits them. Does that even make any sense?

ZOS which is it? Do you want Zerg/blobbing or not?