Barrier needs a nerf

MoneyOverEverything

lets do maths

barrier got 25k shield and 20k hot

1! magicka detonation + deadric curse = 15k - 18k in most cases

imagine there are 12 ppl in a zerg and 3 enemys just put that boom on 3 different ppl, + 3 meteors

BOOM whole zerg insta-rips IF they have no barrier up and like u said, they have to be well organised like
dude 1: poppin my barrier
dude 2: i pop mine in 10 seconds
dude 3: my barrier up in like 20 seconds

and to be honest, the barrier isnt the problem because its only, yes only 25k shield if a 12 ppl - zerg fight against 30 randoms, the main-problem is that 98% of the randoms who fight a zerg do rly rly *** dps like light-attacks or spamm 3k dmg on a healer

IF zenimax would remove barrier from skill-line there would be no zerg at all if they dont have very very very good healer who can spam their 10k heals

most zergs dont have that good healers thats why they NEED barriers, otherwise they would came to that point
to think about their gear and their playstyle to get better, but a *** player has a higher chances to survive in a zerg than in a smallscale-group or runnin around solo

hi@ lfg -> LFG -> NEED GROUP PLS ->INV PLS GROUP -> ok u dont inv i leave

kk thx bb

Earendal

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Barrier should be unlocked at AvA 10.

then the ones who are abusing it now will really have no counter lol. i see what you are trying to do.

Apparently actually using skills as intended has been pigeonholed as "abuse."

Rust_in_Peace

Barrier is a great tool; it allows for some great fights as a group when you're facing another large organised group, but the Morph Replenishing Barrier that gives Ultimate back when it expires makes it too easy to keep barrier up on the group 100% of the time. Something as strong as Barrier should have a downside, like it reduces the amount of AoE damage you can give out while active, so that it's truly a defensive ability only.

AbraXuSeXile

This thread is only made because the author failed on a group and feels helpless, Barriers are not an issue and if you can't kill a raid just because they have shields up then i suggest you log out and don't play.

Still baffled by a sorc complaining.

Sotha_Sil

MoneyOverEverything wrote: »

IF zenimax would remove barrier from skill-line there would be no zerg at all if they dont have very very very good healer who can spam their 10k heals

most zergs dont have that good healers thats why they NEED barriers, otherwise they would came to that point
to think about their gear and their playstyle to get better, but a *** player has a higher chances to survive in a zerg than in a smallscale-group or runnin around solo

Although I agree that barriers make bad players look good the fact is the meta game is just stupid right now and really punishing for healers. You can't overheal in this game in large battle of players even if you have awesome healers without barrier it is insta death. TTK is ridiculous.Without barriers, guilds of 24 players can just stop playing. It's you die or I die and right now, in less then a second. At least with barrier there is some kind of suspense (will you do your barriers correctly against my damage ? ). It's not much but it's something.

Imo, removing barriers = Adios large groups. Let's all play small-scale yeah !

Teargrants

Stop trying to nerf my troll bubble! I use it to stack 40k shields solo.

AbraXuSeXile

The way healing works on this game is pathetic, I'm not suprised people use shields.

Garion

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

This thread is only made because the author failed on a group and feels helpless, Barriers are not an issue and if you can't kill a raid just because they have shields up then i suggest you log out and don't play.

Still baffled by a sorc complaining.

Yawn. You've made your point, you don't agree. As "you only play small scale" and are "always outnumbered" this change shouldn't really impact you. I have explained my reasoning very clearly - your trolling is as tiresome as it is obvious.

olsborg

reduce cost of barrier and make it only work for you and 1 more ally.

Sotha_Sil

What people do not seem to understand is that if barrier would be nerfed as OP suggested (6ppl) large- group PVP or guild vs guild - i'm talking like 24 vs 24- fights would be dramatically reduced to the ridiculous- I burst you faster - kind of fight as there would be no way to set up defensive strategies when we see the amount of damage we already get with barrier rotation RIGHT NOW. With 20-ppl-barrier, it's more of a statu-quo and the fight can become interesting.

I'm not talking about zerg vs raid, I'm talking about guild vs guild.

Estelee

I did that thing where I typed out things, deleted things, retyped things ect. Trying to find a somewhat kind manner to lift the lid on the ignorance of this post.

Gave up.

Garion

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

What people do not seem to understand is that if barrier would be nerfed as OP suggested (6ppl) large- group PVP or guild vs guild - i'm talking live 24 vs 24- fights would be dramatically reduced to the ridiculous- I burst you faster - kind of fight as there would no way to set up defensive strategies with the amount of damage we get with barrier rotation RIGHT NOW. With 20-ppl-barrier, it's more of a statu-quo and the fight can become interesting.

Those are exactly the kind of fights that I would like to see avoided, because those are the ones that cause lag.

In any event, with a slight increase in the number of healers and even a 12 person cap on barrier playing in a 24 man raid will remain viable, it just won't be as easy mode as it is now.

ToRelax

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

What people do not seem to understand is that if barrier would be nerfed as OP suggested (6ppl) large- group PVP or guild vs guild - i'm talking live 24 vs 24- fights would be dramatically reduced to the ridiculous- I burst you faster - kind of fight as there would be no way to set up defensive strategies when we see the amount of damage we already get with barrier rotation RIGHT NOW. With 20-ppl-barrier, it's more of a statu-quo and the fight can become interesting.

I'm not talking about zerg vs raid, I'm talking about guild vs guild.

If players were decent enough to survive outside their zergball (or "guildgroup" or whatevery you want to call it), that wouldn't be true.

Xsorus

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

What people do not seem to understand is that if barrier would be nerfed as OP suggested (6ppl) large- group PVP or guild vs guild - i'm talking live 24 vs 24- fights would be dramatically reduced to the ridiculous- I burst you faster - kind of fight as there would be no way to set up defensive strategies when we see the amount of damage we already get with barrier rotation RIGHT NOW. With 20-ppl-barrier, it's more of a statu-quo and the fight can become interesting.

I'm not talking about zerg vs raid, I'm talking about guild vs guild.

No you are talking Zerg vs zerg, don't kid yourself with that guild vs guild crap.
i blame guild wars 2 for letting certain guilds think that running a 24 man was the way to go

Sotha_Sil

Garion wrote: »

Those are exactly the kind of fights that I would like to see avoided, because those are the ones that cause lag..

Yes but does it mean we have to sacrifice group play for your small scale pvp because the game can't support it ? What you enjoy is not what others enjoy. If I want to play with 24 ppl I should be able to do it or the game should remove the option to group with 24 people.

Garion wrote: »

In any event, with a slight increase in the number of healers and even a 12 person cap on barrier playing in a 24 man raid will remain viable, it just won't be as easy mode as it is now.

How nerfing to 12 ppl would help you in any way ? please explain. I mean 6ppl barrier would mean the end of the raid as even good coordinated groups could not withstand the damage and barrier would become useless.

But 12, it's already a large group no? you would still die like crazy with 8 against 24 ppl.

Garion

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Those are exactly the kind of fights that I would like to see avoided, because those are the ones that cause lag..

Yes but does it mean we have to sacrifice group play for your small scale pvp because the game can't support it ? If I want to play with 24 ppl I should be able to do it.

Garion wrote: »

In any event, with a slight increase in the number of healers and even a 12 person cap on barrier playing in a 24 man raid will remain viable, it just won't be as easy mode as it is now.

You have never done raids vs raids fights ?

Yes you should, and you will still be able to do just that with a 12 person or even 6 person cap on barrier. Perhaps individuals within that group will have to improve their personal play style, but that is certainly not a bad thing.

I have taken part in GvG fights, however the group I am in tends to be significantly smaller than the groups we are facing. I have a screenshot actually of the aftermath of a GvG fight, which you got very upset about... if you remember.

Sotha_Sil

Xsorus wrote: »

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

What people do not seem to understand is that if barrier would be nerfed as OP suggested (6ppl) large- group PVP or guild vs guild - i'm talking live 24 vs 24- fights would be dramatically reduced to the ridiculous- I burst you faster - kind of fight as there would be no way to set up defensive strategies when we see the amount of damage we already get with barrier rotation RIGHT NOW. With 20-ppl-barrier, it's more of a statu-quo and the fight can become interesting.

I'm not talking about zerg vs raid, I'm talking about guild vs guild.

No you are talking Zerg vs zerg, don't kid yourself with that guild vs guild crap.
i blame guild wars 2 for letting certain guilds think that running a 24 man was the way to go

I call zerg = unorganized groups of random players massed at one place and raids = guild groups.

You can call it how you want. But these 2 groups are completely different. One will be just a big huge load of players acting randomly and following each other. The other one will have objectives and group coordination on TS and skills synergies and is quite fun to play. If I want to play it and zenimax gave me a 24-raid group, why wouldn't I ?

Sotha_Sil

Garion wrote: »

Yes you should, and you will still be able to do just that with a 12 person or even 6 person cap on barrier. Perhaps individuals within that group will have to improve their personal play style, but that is certainly not a bad thing.

With a 6-man barrier -> small scale vs raid -> won't change. I blob you die.
raid vs raid -> rotation would burst off in 10s. Burst raid wins. RAID IS DEAD. raid vs raid gameplay sucks harder.

With a 12-man barrier -> won't change small scale vs raid. I blob you die.
Can't say about raid vs raid but I guess it would be faster death too.

Definitely not a solution to your problem in both cases.

Joy_Division

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

MoneyOverEverything wrote: »

IF zenimax would remove barrier from skill-line there would be no zerg at all if they dont have very very very good healer who can spam their 10k heals

most zergs dont have that good healers thats why they NEED barriers, otherwise they would came to that point
to think about their gear and their playstyle to get better, but a *** player has a higher chances to survive in a zerg than in a smallscale-group or runnin around solo

Although I agree that barriers make bad players look good the fact is the meta game is just stupid right now and really punishing for healers. You can't overheal in this game in large battle of players even if you have awesome healers without barrier it is insta death. TTK is ridiculous.Without barriers, guilds of 24 players can just stop playing. It's you die or I die and right now, in less then a second. At least with barrier there is some kind of suspense (will you do your barriers correctly against my damage ? ). It's not much but it's something.

Imo, removing barriers = Adios large groups. Let's all play small-scale yeah !

Many people see that as a desirable thing.

I'd personally would rather they make the map more interesting to encourage small-scale and make it so a group of 4 can actually meaningfully contribute in AvA and the Alliance scoreboard. But, even the designers are looking for ways to spreas us out.

Sotha_Sil

Joy_Division wrote: »

Many people see that as a desirable thing.

I'd personally would rather they make the map more interesting to encourage small-scale and make it so a group of 4 can actually meaningfully contribute in AvA and the Alliance scoreboard. But, even the designers are looking for ways to spreas us out.

Some like large groups some don't. If small scale is the ultimate end game ZOS wants us to go for, I would not mind but Cyrodiil needs rework not only our skills.

The map is not made for small-scale pvp. I wouldn't mind doing small scale if there would be more objectives and interesting stuff to do as you said. But right now there is not. So I'm playing what I was told Cyrodiil would be : a war with large groups - 1800 people on the same PVP map I recall...

themdogesbite

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Yes you should, and you will still be able to do just that with a 12 person or even 6 person cap on barrier. Perhaps individuals within that group will have to improve their personal play style, but that is certainly not a bad thing.

With a 6-man barrier -> small scale vs raid -> won't change. I blob you die.
raid vs raid -> rotation would burst off in 10s. Burst raid wins. RAID IS DEAD. raid vs raid gameplay sucks harder.

With a 12-man barrier -> won't change small scale vs raid. I blob you die.
Can't say about raid vs raid but I guess it would be faster death too.

Definitely not a solution to your problem in both cases.

Actually with a 6 man barrier cap it would be a crazy diffrence, instead of a full raid rotating 600k+ dmg shields for their group to help support their X ammount of healers it would instead be arround the 150 - 200k mark (rhoughly) since your barrier wouldnt cover everyone and youd be forced to use arround 4 barriers to shield everyone instead of one.

A smaller group could get more value out of their barriers then the larger group could, but i can see why this would scare you, thats the reason you blob up in the first place

Sotha_Sil

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually with a 6 man barrier cap it would be a crazy diffrence, instead of a full raid rotating 600k+ dmg shields for their group to help support their X ammount of healers it would instead be arround the 150 - 200k mark (rhoughly) since your barrier wouldnt cover everyone and youd be forced to use arround 4 barriers to shield everyone instead of one.

A smaller group could get more value out of their barriers then the larger group could, but i can see why this would scare you, thats the reason you blob up in the first place

I believe barrier nerf or not it won't change the fact raids/zergs will win against small groups ultimately - lack of CC skills in the game are the reason. You may kill more raids and you may catch up some by surprise or get the most of the landscape but ultimately the numbers won't lie and you will lose. I seriously doubt removing/nerfing barrier would help you against 2 full organized raids as it was mentioned earlier in the thread.So it's not a big deal for this kind of fights and imo it won't change anything.

I'm afraid about what it would do to raids vs raids gameplay/large group battles where removing barrier or nerfing it would ultimately become more of a burst fest than it already is. And this is definitely not fun.

Derra

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

There are people out there willing to play with a 24-man group as you are willing to play with a 8-man group or solo or any other type of group you want.

I don't understand why we should stop these people from having fun by removing skills used for group play (purge, barrier...) just because the server can't support lag.

The solution here is to give little groups some ways to compete but right now, experienced groups of 8-man can bring down any zerg of 24 if these large groups are not prepared or well coordinated.

I agree that against 24 well cordinated groups you will have hurdles bringing them down but maybe it just means you have found people as good as you are.

This is so complete and utter nonsense that i don´t even know where to start. I´ll try it anyway.
In the current meta there is nothing that can compete with numbers except for - you guess it: Numbers. This is because certain defensive abilities hit every player in their radius whereas there is no offensive ability that does not suffer from target caps.
This together with the new ultimate gain (pre 1.6 a well coordinated small grp could drop way more ultis when fighting a full raid) made it way harder to compete against any half decent raid.
Also now every steel tornado stamina dd is a main healer on their offensive bar - because for whatever reason ZOS deemed it wise for an aoe hot ability in this game to stack with itself from multiple sources.

The implication that this requires the same amount of coordination or "skill" as a small grp fighting outnumbered is hilarious in itself. A raid does not have to play reactionary when fighting a small grp (or anything but another "coordinated" grp of comparible size). You could literally train a bunch of monkeys to fill every slot in a blob except for their leader and it would be unbeatable by a grp they outnumber by 3to1 or more - or an amount of uncoordinated solos double their numbers.

Coupled with the unbelievably bad server performance this leads to full raids and semi coordinated zergs being the only competetive grp environment during primetime hours sucking out the fun for anyone not willing to play with that amount of ppl.

Oh and there are gankers. Their playstyle always works kind of... But those don´t want to fight at all - the lowest of all lifeforms found in cyrodiil.

Islyn

ToRelax wrote: »

Worst example is Purge, how I hate Purge spamming... the msot hilarious one is Vigor.

Wow why do you even care? I actually want to know.

Sotha_Sil

@Derra
I think I didn't make myself clear or you didn't understand my sentence I don't know. I said "experienced groups of 8-man can bring down any zerg of 24 if these large groups are not prepared or well coordinated. " Killing a single 24 man raid can be done right now if they don't play smart or have poor barrier coordination whatever the reason it can happen under some circumstances so I don't know what you find so surprising about it. And I said that ultimately numbers win, I said it I agree, read my posts...

And please, please don't make assumptions... I am not saying barrier groups are more skilled than small scale pvp groups. I have never said that and I don't think it. I am just saying they are two different playstyle and I like playing as a group.

Ezareth

I think it needs capped on the number of people it hits as well.

Zerg blobbing is slowly but surely killing the PvP in this game. Changes need made to encourage players to spread out and penalize them for stacking on top of each other all day.

ToRelax

Islyn wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Worst example is Purge, how I hate Purge spamming... the msot hilarious one is Vigor.

Wow why do you even care? I actually want to know.

Because I could have more good fights if the available abilities were not favoring zergballs as much as they do.

Soulac

You either get most of the zerg down before someone is able to react with barrier or the chances to win against a bigger group are going towards zero.

Barrier is too strong no matter how you look at it.

Charadras

So tell me one thing. I am in a pvp guild and when we have evening raid (just 2 hours) we are about 20/24 People all on ts, all with gear and build for warband style and all of us know His role. Eso give me the opportunity to make a 24 mens raid with my guildmate (not everyone at vr 14 because we have new recruit). So are we a zerg? If yes what we have to do? Tell People to not log because we have to play in max 12 ppls? Split in 2 party and die because every evening on haderus there are always a blue and a Yellow 30+ zerg?

RainfeatherUK

Charadras wrote: »

So tell me one thing. I am in a pvp guild and when we have evening raid (just 2 hours) we are about 20/24 People all on ts, all with gear and build for warband style and all of us know His role. Eso give me the opportunity to make a 24 mens raid with my guildmate (not everyone at vr 14 because we have new recruit). So are we a zerg? If yes what we have to do? Tell People to not log because we have to play in max 12 ppls? Split in 2 party and die because every evening on haderus there are always a blue and a Yellow 30+ zerg?

Theres a difference between co-ordinated events and running around in a mega blob, because you're crap at PvP lol.