Shield Strength based off of Stamina.

vichoi

Sythias wrote: »

Not falling on either side - but keep in mind dodge roll doesn't negate everything, where a ward will negate all damage.

we can dodge 3 snipe in a roll, but ward only absorb the first snipe and it's gone, the other 2 kills the sorc.

if i'm chasing by 3+ enemies, dodge roll help me escape, ward get me killed.

Vis

hamon wrote: »

let them have their way and just think you,ll probably meet them IRL when they flip your burgers for you in a year or 2

Just finished my masters in ChE. Must be weird for you to imagine people who can both work AND play. Must be blowing your mind right now.

Cody

Tintinabula wrote: »

Im not here to be personally attacked. I asked questions which still noone has answered. I never assume to know everything about a class that I haven't played since beta. I know from my end I asked my BF who has a sorc about Hardened ward. He told me that shield strength was based of magika.

Then I asked if there was a shield strength based off stamina..which there doesn't seem to be one. Unless you want to roll dodge like a monkey every 4 seconds. Again..how long does hardened ward stay up? I'm not crying. I'm stating a fact. As a DK who is stamina based I have to not only cast two skills every 5 seconds or so..I also have to dodge roll every 4 seconds and wear armor that gives a shield at 30% health to even come close to hardened wards mitigation..while it seems that all a sorc must do is cast hardened ward. Am I wrong?

I'm not interested in personal attacks.

well..

there IS bone shield, or whatever its called, but it only lasts like 5 seconds and scales based off of max health, meaning, it usually sucks:/

Cinnamon_Spider

vichoi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Stam builds already have the equivalent shield to hardened ward. Its called blocking.

this is why we are seeing so many S/B sorcs (best of both worlds)

That isn't even the least bit true. With all my points into magic, I can't just stand there and block. I have the s/b for defensive stance and the set bonus.

True, Sorc use S/B so they won't killed by their own reflectable spell, not for blocking which cost too high stam.
sorc only have one good damge skill that is CF (and only if it proc.), which is reflectable so sorc are forced to use S/B, they don't have a choice.
hardern ward is the only reason magicka base sorc still exist, if there's stam based ward, they'll all reroll stam sorc.

I wouldn't and I know plenty of other sorcs that also prefer magic over stam builds. If I wanted to play a stam build, I would've rolled a NB or DK.

Cinnamon_Spider

Almost forgot. Nerf sorc thread number 586,465,874.

bosmern_ESO

Stamina builds get massive amounts of evasion and they can roll dodge every ability. Giving stamina builds a shield would make them completely unkillable

Tintinabula

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Almost forgot. Nerf sorc thread number 586,465,874.

This thread is not about nerfing sorcs. This thread is about shields strength based off of health...shields strength based off of magika..and Oh that's right..there are no shields strength based off of stamina.

There seems to be a large amount of Sorcs against it though.

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Stamina builds get massive amounts of evasion and they can roll dodge every ability. Giving stamina builds a shield would make them completely unkillable

Sorcs get massive amounts of evasion with BOL..

Cinnamon_Spider

Tintinabula wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Almost forgot. Nerf sorc thread number 586,465,874.

This thread is not about nerfing sorcs. This thread is about shields strength based off of health...shields strength based off of magika..and Oh that's right..there are no shields strength based off of stamina.

There seems to be a large amount of Sorcs against it though.

You claim it isn't, but you've made enough comments to show your true colors. And again, a stamina user has the ability to block. That is the definition of a shield based off of stam. To ask for another shield, along with perma roll dodging, and blocking is asinine.

cozmon3c_ESO

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Almost forgot. Nerf sorc thread number 586,465,874.

This thread is not about nerfing sorcs. This thread is about shields strength based off of health...shields strength based off of magika..and Oh that's right..there are no shields strength based off of stamina.

There seems to be a large amount of Sorcs against it though.

You claim it isn't, but you've made enough comments to show your true colors. And again, a stamina user has the ability to block. That is the definition of a shield based off of stam. To ask for another shield, along with perma roll dodging, and blocking is asinine.

yeah i have to agree with this, block is your shield as a stamina user, roll dodge is your damage avoidance. And guess what you DONT have to sacrifice and ability slot for these two. they both avoid most cc's as well.

hardened ward, takes a slot, and doesnt provide cc immunity from cc (except that staff attack because its bugged).
sorc damage avoidence is bolt
NB damage avoidance is cloak
DK's and Templars heal the damage they take. (and reflect it)

iseko

All in all I don't see any problem. When 1.6 hit people were QQ'ing that magicka builds got recked and stam is the new meta. Now people are making magicka builds again because they still have potential. Just different is all...

People were QQ'ing about infinite roll dodge. Until they realized that certain skills can not be dodged.

People are still QQ'ing about sorcs. Yet I have seen so many builds/tactics that counter sorcs come up. *** even with my magicka temp I can kill kiting sorcs. Daedric mines? Cryst frag? All fine by me. I will stay up in your face with my blazing shield on. Doing some other dps on the side as well. The second your health drops below 50% -> stun +jesus beam. Ive had sorcs whisp me, pissed off because magicka temps should not be able to kill them. Well F you buddy! /ignore

Does not work against all sorcs. But against enough of them... You can't dodge jesus beam. You cant streak away from it. Interrupt or tank. And with health below 50% I can not advice tanking. If they interrupt it then next up is soul assault.

My point is that all the 'op' builds of early 1.6 are getting countered. Wrecking blow still hurts like a mofo. But I just block when I see it coming. Keep blazing up. Laugh while they wreck themselves. Jesus beam to finish em off. You got high burst? Ive got high sustain/heals. Im not gonna tank 1v3 em though. 30k dps still hurts (as it should).

Only thing that is *** ridiculous atm is nirnhorned. There is no counter to it. If you are a magicka build and you are fighting someine with 50% spell dmg mitigation? Well you get to eat *** space cowboy. There should be a larger diminishing return on nirnhorned. It should be strong but this is ridiculous...

Mumyo

Wouldnt it be just better to scale the sorcshield off their health aswell instead of ruining other stuff?

Yasha

I think 1handed and shield should have a better skill for "shielding". Too many of the tanking abilities seem class based, if they were tied to heavy armor and 1 handed and shield it would make more sense and lessen the complaints about classes.

Francescolg

iseko wrote: »

I finally found a magicka built on my temp that I like. 9K blazing shield with infinite magicka, good heals and some fairly good dps. It's good in 1v1-2-3. But no more.

It is right but as the TE wrote several times: we have to give up "something" (and that is a LOT!) to get the 9k blazing shield.
Beside I do not believe at all that your damage is "fairly good dps". This is simply not true. You can reach fairly good AE-dps but only and only when the enemies focus you. Otherwise, every major DPS-spell is 2-4k less strong, resulting in our strongest DD (with heal debuff) that is far away from the sorcerer-shield value.

At lest (please do not misunderstand me!) the shield should not offer much more damage absorption than one "heavy" templar DD is able to do.

Atm one sorc shield can "swallow" 2-3 Templar damage skills, before it goes down.
So: they push one button in 1 second, while being able to do damage afterwards, while I have to push 2-3 buttons to even get the shield down. This is 1:3, this is far from fair!

Beside that, the TE mentiones everything she has to do to just survive (!) not to be competitive vs. a Sorcerer, that is:

- Special Heavy Armor with Shield Proc under 30%hp (I do not memorize armor names :-)
- 20k+ Magic damage resistances / Heavy Armor
- 1h/shield for reflection
- Nirn-enchants

If you manage to get those parts (set is very affordable) you SURVIVE one sorcerer but you give up sooo much.

Nonetheless, all you can do is to play a sorcerer.. Till june you'll have everything up and there will be no nurf before august/september, if there will ever be one.. lol

Darnathian

Vis wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

let them have their way and just think you,ll probably meet them IRL when they flip your burgers for you in a year or 2

Just finished my masters in ChE. Must be weird for you to imagine people who can both work AND play. Must be blowing your mind right now.

I have my Masters Degree in Nuclear Engineering. BUT.... I am actually working a nuclear power plant. Dont confuse college with working college boy. lol

Darnathian

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Almost forgot. Nerf sorc thread number 586,465,874.

Good. Now you know how DK's feel. I am sure if i do some digging a can find somes quotes from the Sorcs when DK's were OP. Now its our turn to QQ for balance and your turn to defend and deflect any actual conversions about the issue at hand.

Without any deflections or crap talking, explain how having a shield based of your main stat, is fair. Give a magicka and stamina based shield to all classes as an option, then there is balance.

shane.roberts25b14_ESO

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Almost forgot. Nerf sorc thread number 586,465,874.

If over half a million players say sorc is op, don't you think that maybe, just maybe, they're on to something?

OdinForge

A stam based shield like hardened ward, would destroy any hope of balance in this game. Imagine a stam NB specced for roll dodge and burst, who could also cast an 11K damage shield. While popping the occasional vigor / rally as extra insurance. 1H is assurance enough for stamina users, it might not be competitive against other stamina users but against a magicka build that's our damage shield.

Magicka builds would cease to exist from competition, much like stamina not too long ago.

Xsorus

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Stam builds already have the equivalent shield to hardened ward. Its called blocking.

If you completely ignore the fact that you can use CC to disable someone from blocking, that you still take damage while blocking, that it pretty much drains your stamina incredibly fast thus causing you to die because ya can't break free, and you are pretty much required to wear heavy armor and lower your damage in general to make it effective...

Then yes, they are exactly the same /facepalm

hamon

Vis wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

let them have their way and just think you,ll probably meet them IRL when they flip your burgers for you in a year or 2

Just finished my masters in ChE. Must be weird for you to imagine people who can both work AND play. Must be blowing your mind right now.

what blows my mind is that you think being a student is the same as working a proper full time job.. if you get one you,ll probably have your mind blown by how diffrent it actually is.

i wish i had the same amount of free time i did when i was a student. full time student in UK is 3 days a week, full time job is 5 , you think by the time you finished your masters you might know that.

not sure how anyone who has a full time job could compete to get emperor. but i,m sure most if not all of them would tell me they managed it while working as a CEO of a fortune 500 company, going to the gym regularly to maintain a reasonable weight , and having a healthy social life...

Teargrants

Darnathian wrote: »

Without any deflections or crap talking, explain how having a shield based of your main stat, is fair. Give a magicka and stamina based shield to all classes as an option, then there is balance.

Without any deflections or crap talking, explain how having a 15k self heal based on your main stat, is fair. Give a magicka and stamina based self heal to all classes as an option, then there is balance.

Without any deflections or crap talking, explain how having dodge roll, CC break and block based on your main stat, is fair. Give a magicka based dodge roll, CC break and block to all classes as an option, then there is balance.

Tintinabula

Sorcs dont need dodge. They have a CC/dodgeroll/escape..Its called bolt of lightning. Please make it so my dodge rolls stun anyone I roll through and when I dodge roll, leave little shadows of myself behind to absorb damage and targeting of enemy players.

Sorcs say they cant dodge roll therefore its fair..you don't need dodge roll.You have an escape..just like dodge rollers..AND..you have a damage shield that absorbs 10 k damage based off your main stat if you are so inclined to stand there and tank. Stamina users should have that too.

ToRelax

Tintinabula wrote: »

Sorcs dont need dodge. They have a CC/dodgeroll/escape..Its called bolt of lightning. Please make it so my dodge rolls stun anyone I roll through and when I dodge roll, leave little shadows of myself behind to absorb damage and targeting of enemy players.

Sorcs say they cant dodge roll therefore its fair..you don't need dodge roll.You have an escape..just like dodge rollers..AND..you have a damage shield that absorbs 10 k damage based off your main stat if you are so inclined to stand there and tank. Stamina users should have that too.

When i dodge most attacks with ball of lightning you can ahve your stam shield...

Xsorus

ToRelax wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Sorcs dont need dodge. They have a CC/dodgeroll/escape..Its called bolt of lightning. Please make it so my dodge rolls stun anyone I roll through and when I dodge roll, leave little shadows of myself behind to absorb damage and targeting of enemy players.

Sorcs say they cant dodge roll therefore its fair..you don't need dodge roll.You have an escape..just like dodge rollers..AND..you have a damage shield that absorbs 10 k damage based off your main stat if you are so inclined to stand there and tank. Stamina users should have that too.

When i dodge most attacks with ball of lightning you can ahve your stam shield...

You probably actually dodge more attacks with Bol then people actually dodging do.

By ball lightning you ate creating distance which pretty much negates most melee attacks in the game except the occasional charge, which is negated once you gain enough distance. Bol itself absorbs magical projectiles so that's another thing it stops from hitting ya. that leaves probably just a few attacks left in comparsion that will actually land, and those are negated entirely by distance soon afterward.

Teargrants

Tintinabula wrote: »

Sorcs dont need dodge. They have a CC/dodgeroll/escape..Its called bolt of lightning. Please make it so my dodge rolls stun anyone I roll through and when I dodge roll, leave little shadows of myself behind to absorb damage and targeting of enemy players.

Sorcs say they cant dodge roll therefore its fair..you don't need dodge roll.

Again you just demonstrate your ignorance and preconceived anti sorc bias. Bolt escape doesn't do both those are separate morphs. Please tell me how bolt escape is a dodge roll? This whole time I've been having to chain blinks with dodge rolls to get away since launch.

Tintinabula wrote: »

You have an escape..just like dodge rollers..

So you admit dodge roll is an escape?

Tintinabula wrote: »

AND..you have a damage shield that absorbs 10 k damage based off your main stat if you are so inclined to stand there and tank. Stamina users should have that too.

Stand there and tank? Almost sounds like something I need stam and stam management for, you know, to block. Tell me, would you tank a dungeon with 8k stam, light armor and hardened ward? Your argument seems facetious to me.

iseko

Francescolg wrote: »

iseko wrote: »

I finally found a magicka built on my temp that I like. 9K blazing shield with infinite magicka, good heals and some fairly good dps. It's good in 1v1-2-3. But no more.

It is right but as the TE wrote several times: we have to give up "something" (and that is a LOT!) to get the 9k blazing shield.
Beside I do not believe at all that your damage is "fairly good dps". This is simply not true. You can reach fairly good AE-dps but only and only when the enemies focus you. Otherwise, every major DPS-spell is 2-4k less strong, resulting in our strongest DD (with heal debuff) that is far away from the sorcerer-shield value.

Yes and no. Single target I CAN get to 10k dps spikes. I usually stagnate aroubd 3-4-5. To be fair:
I use dot attacks (which are useless on hardened ward)
Blazing shield detonation is a large chunk of that dps
I am a vamp and use bats sometimes in 1v1

But my point was that I dont kill someone in 2 seconds flat (rarely). I tank what they throw at me. I have near infinite magicka and very good stam regen to keep it up for a very long time. Once they run out of burst and/or forget to heal themselves above 50% health -> jesus beam.

But I do see your point. But also: magicka temps dont have good dps even with maxed out spell power. I think survivability is the way to go. Off topic discussion though .

Darnathian

OdinForge wrote: »

A stam based shield like hardened ward, would destroy any hope of balance in this game. Imagine a stam NB specced for roll dodge and burst, who could also cast an 11K damage shield. While popping the occasional vigor / rally as extra insurance. 1H is assurance enough for stamina users, it might not be competitive against other stamina users but against a magicka build that's our damage shield.

Magicka builds would cease to exist from competition, much like stamina not too long ago.

EXACTLY. It is not fair. So have all shields stack off health. A class that is designed to do max damage should not get a defense like that. Come on man you are wearing cloth. lol If you want to go offense then keep your CF and what not. BUT NOT SHIELD SCALED OFF IT.

I dont mind dying to a sorc because he outplayed me. I mind dying to a sorc that i was built to fight against, made no mistakes, and still died.

Request Sypher (best DK dueler) fight against a equally good sorc. I will bet 100k he loses.

ToRelax

Darnathian wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

A stam based shield like hardened ward, would destroy any hope of balance in this game. Imagine a stam NB specced for roll dodge and burst, who could also cast an 11K damage shield. While popping the occasional vigor / rally as extra insurance. 1H is assurance enough for stamina users, it might not be competitive against other stamina users but against a magicka build that's our damage shield.

Magicka builds would cease to exist from competition, much like stamina not too long ago.

EXACTLY. It is not fair. So have all shields stack off health. A class that is designed to do max damage should not get a defense like that. Come on man you are wearing cloth. lol If you want to go offense then keep your CF and what not. BUT NOT SHIELD SCALED OFF IT.

I dont mind dying to a sorc because he outplayed me. I mind dying to a sorc that i was built to fight against, made no mistakes, and still died.

Request Sypher (best DK dueler) fight against a equally good sorc. I will bet 100k he loses.

Sorc is designed to do max damage... do we play the same game ?

Darnathian

ToRelax wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

A stam based shield like hardened ward, would destroy any hope of balance in this game. Imagine a stam NB specced for roll dodge and burst, who could also cast an 11K damage shield. While popping the occasional vigor / rally as extra insurance. 1H is assurance enough for stamina users, it might not be competitive against other stamina users but against a magicka build that's our damage shield.

Magicka builds would cease to exist from competition, much like stamina not too long ago.

EXACTLY. It is not fair. So have all shields stack off health. A class that is designed to do max damage should not get a defense like that. Come on man you are wearing cloth. lol If you want to go offense then keep your CF and what not. BUT NOT SHIELD SCALED OFF IT.

I dont mind dying to a sorc because he outplayed me. I mind dying to a sorc that i was built to fight against, made no mistakes, and still died.

Request Sypher (best DK dueler) fight against a equally good sorc. I will bet 100k he loses.

Sorc is designed to do max damage... do we play the same game ?

ATM yes. Who does more?

glak

Ward morph to stamina would give stam sorcs the ability to go all in on stamina.

ToRelax

Darnathian wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

A stam based shield like hardened ward, would destroy any hope of balance in this game. Imagine a stam NB specced for roll dodge and burst, who could also cast an 11K damage shield. While popping the occasional vigor / rally as extra insurance. 1H is assurance enough for stamina users, it might not be competitive against other stamina users but against a magicka build that's our damage shield.

Magicka builds would cease to exist from competition, much like stamina not too long ago.

EXACTLY. It is not fair. So have all shields stack off health. A class that is designed to do max damage should not get a defense like that. Come on man you are wearing cloth. lol If you want to go offense then keep your CF and what not. BUT NOT SHIELD SCALED OFF IT.

I dont mind dying to a sorc because he outplayed me. I mind dying to a sorc that i was built to fight against, made no mistakes, and still died.

Request Sypher (best DK dueler) fight against a equally good sorc. I will bet 100k he loses.

Sorc is designed to do max damage... do we play the same game ?

ATM yes. Who does more?

Stamina NB and DK and magicka DK.