Shield Strength based off of Stamina.

Tintinabula

Is there one? Why not? Sorcs get hardened ward. I just went up against a sorc who ate ice comet plus tics plus invasion plus talons plus caltrops and the damage meter records all being absorbed by Hardened ward. I mean if sorcs can have a shield based off of their magika pool why not a shields strength based off of a stamina pool?

It's my understanding that all other shields are based off of health? Wheres the stamina one? If sorcs can go glass cannon all magika and have a shield that in effect makes them a tank , why cant stam users have the same thing?

I know roll dodge gives a armor increase plus evade chance but it lasts for 4 seconds roughly.( so it must be recast every 4 secs.) How long does hardened ward stay up before it needs to be recast?
Something is off here.

Teargrants

Brilliant. Let's give stam builds a hardened ward equivelant on top of their ability to dodge roll ad infinum.

WTB stam bolt escape morph too. Thy can call it Frog Leap.

Tintinabula

Teargrants wrote: »

Brilliant. Let's give stam builds a hardened ward equivelant on top of their ability to dodge roll ad infinum.

WTB stam bolt escape morph too. Thy can call it Frog Leap.

how long does your hardened ward stay up? Sorcs can dodge roll too. Its not exclusive to stam builds. Im seeing a disparity between a ward based off your magika that makes you a tank. Cast it and bam you're done..you can dance a jig..have tea..invite friends to watch you dancing and having tea..your hardened ward is up!(and how many seconds later later til you have to recast?)

You cant possibly be comparing having to dodge roll every 4 seconds to your "hardened ward I win tank" button..or are you?

I mean as a DK..we have Igneous shield..based off health..max Ive seen is roughly 5-6K damage absorbed?..plus reflective scales..has to be recast every 5 seconds and only reflects 4 projectiles?..So..plus dodge roll is there any thing else you would like me to have to constantly cast while you stand there and only have to cast hardened ward? I mean that's three things I mentioned.

Whyn Aurum

Teargrants wrote: »

Brilliant. Let's give stam builds a hardened ward equivelant on top of their ability to dodge roll ad infinum.

WTB stam bolt escape morph too. Thy can call it Frog Leap.

This+++++++++++++

@ topic
Stam builds dominate PvP right now, and magicka is being looked at for buffing in future patches. I wouldn't expect any major buffs - rather than nerfs - to the stam builds.

Tintinabula

There's something wrong with you being ok with another class having to constantly cast and upkeep three plus skills to come close to your one skill..jussayin

Vis

I think the OP needs to roll a sorc so she knows what she is talking about and what is going on.

Edited: Hyperbole isn't the equivalent of crying. So, while it's clear the op is using misinformed hyperbole, it does not mean she is crying.

Tintinabula

Im not here to be personally attacked. I asked questions which still noone has answered. I never assume to know everything about a class that I haven't played since beta. I know from my end I asked my BF who has a sorc about Hardened ward. He told me that shield strength was based of magika.

Then I asked if there was a shield strength based off stamina..which there doesn't seem to be one. Unless you want to roll dodge like a monkey every 4 seconds. Again..how long does hardened ward stay up? I'm not crying. I'm stating a fact. As a DK who is stamina based I have to not only cast two skills every 5 seconds or so..I also have to dodge roll every 4 seconds and wear armor that gives a shield at 30% health to even come close to hardened wards mitigation..while it seems that all a sorc must do is cast hardened ward. Am I wrong?

I'm not interested in personal attacks.

hamon

Tintinabula wrote: »

There's something wrong with you being ok with another class having to constantly cast and upkeep three plus skills to come close to your one skill..jussayin

dont even bother to argue , theres a group of pvp tryhards numbering about 20-30 who seem to have nothing more to fill thier life apart from pvp on one ultra character or hang out on the forums trying to convince zos to mould the game exactly for them... they make the whole pvp side of the forums toxic. they just want to post videos of themselves running around with emperor buffs , nirnhoned etc so they can have a circle jerk and tell each other how awesome they are.

let them have their way and just think you,ll probably meet them IRL when they flip your burgers for you in a year or 2

Teargrants

Tintinabula wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Brilliant. Let's give stam builds a hardened ward equivelant on top of their ability to dodge roll ad infinum.

WTB stam bolt escape morph too. Thy can call it Frog Leap.

how long does your hardened ward stay up? Sorcs can dodge roll too. Its not exclusive to stam builds.

Yeah great I can dodge roll three times with a potion, or I can be like Ezareth spec fully into stam cost reduction and tumbling and eek out 6 rolls. Meanwhile stam builds can dodge roll to the next keep. "Not exclusive", I don't think that phrase means what you think it means in this context.

Tintinabula wrote: »

Im seeing a disparity between a ward based off your magika that makes you a tank. Cast it and bam you're done..you can dance a jig..have tea..invite friends to watch you dancing and having tea..your hardened ward is up!(and how many seconds later later til you have to recast?)

You cant possibly be comparing having to dodge roll every 4 seconds to your "hardened ward I win tank" button..or are you?

Wow, just wow. Now hardened ward is an I win button! I can tell this is gonna be a reasoned debate. If you watched any of my vids you would understand that the real I win button is perma block. Wards don't mean jack *** when you're CC'd on your ass and don't have the stam to CC break.

How long do I have between ward recasts? About 5 seconds if I don't want to let it get depleted and take a big overflow dmg hit that could one shot me. I'm not sure why I have to explain this to you. You've been playing this game for a year, you should know the shield casting animation key frames and be able to tell for yourself how often they're recasting.

Tintinabula wrote: »

I mean as a DK..we have Igneous shield..based off health..max Ive seen is roughly 5-6K damage absorbed?..plus reflective scales..has to be recast every 5 seconds and only reflects 4 projectiles?..So..plus dodge roll is there any thing else you would like me to have to constantly cast while you stand there and only have to cast hardened ward? I mean that's three things I mentioned.

Perhaps you should look at your play style as a stam DK then? If you have dodge roll up consistently, you don't need shields and scales up constantly because you're dodging almost all the hits as it were.

hamon

Whyn Aurum wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Brilliant. Let's give stam builds a hardened ward equivelant on top of their ability to dodge roll ad infinum.

WTB stam bolt escape morph too. Thy can call it Frog Leap.

This+++++++++++++

@ topic
Stam builds dominate PvP right now, and magicka is being looked at for buffing in future patches. I wouldn't expect any major buffs - rather than nerfs - to the stam builds.

thats over simplistic. stamina dominates simply in terms of pure numbers. and thats a symptom of dk's and templars being totally unviable using magika. with the rare exception of being able to do so in nirnhoned , using AW10 perks and even maybe emperor.

to anyone not in that category apart from sorcs all you can do is use stamina if you want to kill anything.

Tintinabula

I'm not trying to insult or offend. I was legitimately trying to learn. When I see one skill that absorbs that much damage and I have to cast three skills and dodge roll and wear armor that mitigates an equal amount of damage I ask questions.

P.s. comet cant be dodge rolled out of.

booksmcread

Tintinabula wrote: »

P.s. comet cant be dodge rolled out of.

No, but it can be reflected, using a stamina-based ability.

Tintinabula

booksmcread wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

P.s. comet cant be dodge rolled out of.

No, but it can be reflected, using a stamina-based ability.

correct so lets add another skill to our skill bar that helps compare to the mitigation of hardened ward which simply allows the caster to "stand there".

Teargrants

Tintinabula wrote: »

booksmcread wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

P.s. comet cant be dodge rolled out of.

No, but it can be reflected, using a stamina-based ability.

correct so lets add another skill to our skill bar that helps compare to the mitigation of hardened ward which simply allows the caster to "stand there".

You already have scales on your bar, by your own admission. Reflect doesn't need you to add another skill to your bar.

You keep saying you're trying to learn, but at every turn you remain close minded to everything ppl are telling you.

Tintinabula

the fact still remains I have to cast 3-4 things while you cast one.

Cinnamon_Spider

Stam builds already have the equivalent shield to hardened ward. Its called blocking.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

I want blazing shield based on magicka :P

iseko

hardened ward is a 8-12k shield depending on your setup.1-2 snipes or wrecking blows and it is down. It is not an I win button. It also does not give immunity to stun. You are focusing to much on the shield itself. I would trade hardened ward for dragonscales in a heartbeat. Far more useful imho.

I dont like playing with my sorc though. Gets tedious. I finally found a magicka built on my temp that I like. 9K blazing shield with infinite magicka, good heals and some fairly good dps. It's good in 1v1-2-3. But no more. 9K blazing shield? 1-2 hits and it is down. Same as hardened ward. Again: no cc immunity. Still need to block stun attacks.

And no. There is no true equivalent for hardened ward as a stam build. But there are other defenses. Such as roll dodge and block. If u get rally + vigor + block + scales and CP in block reduction. No mage can kill you in 1v1. Add to that block casting and well... Sorc QQ incoming. Hell I've seen many sorcs die from: invasion + talons + soul assault. *** hurts

Tintinabula

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Stam builds already have the equivalent shield to hardened ward. Its called blocking.

this is why we are seeing so many S/B sorcs (best of both worlds)

iseko wrote: »

hardened ward is a 8-12k shield depending on your setup.1-2 snipes or wrecking blows and it is down. It is not an I win button. It also does not give immunity to stun. You are focusing to much on the shield itself. I would trade hardened ward for dragonscales in a heartbeat. Far more useful imho.

I dont like playing with my sorc though. Gets tedious. I finally found a magicka built on my temp that I like. 9K blazing shield with infinite magicka, good heals and some fairly good dps. It's good in 1v1-2-3. But no more. 9K blazing shield? 1-2 hits and it is down. Same as hardened ward. Again: no cc immunity. Still need to block stun attacks.

And no. There is no true equivalent for hardened ward as a stam build. But there are other defenses. Such as roll dodge and block. If u get rally + vigor + block + scales and CP in block reduction. No mage can kill you in 1v1. Add to that block casting and well... Sorc QQ incoming. Hell I've seen many sorcs die from: invasion + talons + soul assault. *** hurts

Thankyou for this response. It is good to hear an honest opinion from the other end and Im not too stubborn to see playing a sorc can be tedious. Its just on my end I am trying to balance Mitigation with DPS and when I have to use 3 slots on a skill bar to mitigate what hardened ward does(which takes one slot) that gives me less slots for dps skills. I came to the forums to suggest that perhaps stamina builds could receive a comparable skill.

Cinnamon_Spider

Tintinabula wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Stam builds already have the equivalent shield to hardened ward. Its called blocking.

this is why we are seeing so many S/B sorcs (best of both worlds)

That isn't even the least bit true. With all my points into magic, I can't just stand there and block. I have the s/b for defensive stance and the set bonus.

olsborg

theres a stam based ward, bone shield morph, only works vs stam abilities tho.

Tintinabula

olsborg wrote: »

theres a stam based ward, bone shield morph, only works vs stam abilities tho.

It costs stam to cast but is its strength based off stamina?

ToRelax

Tintinabula wrote: »

iseko wrote: »

hardened ward is a 8-12k shield depending on your setup.1-2 snipes or wrecking blows and it is down. It is not an I win button. It also does not give immunity to stun. You are focusing to much on the shield itself. I would trade hardened ward for dragonscales in a heartbeat. Far more useful imho.

I dont like playing with my sorc though. Gets tedious. I finally found a magicka built on my temp that I like. 9K blazing shield with infinite magicka, good heals and some fairly good dps. It's good in 1v1-2-3. But no more. 9K blazing shield? 1-2 hits and it is down. Same as hardened ward. Again: no cc immunity. Still need to block stun attacks.

And no. There is no true equivalent for hardened ward as a stam build. But there are other defenses. Such as roll dodge and block. If u get rally + vigor + block + scales and CP in block reduction. No mage can kill you in 1v1. Add to that block casting and well... Sorc QQ incoming. Hell I've seen many sorcs die from: invasion + talons + soul assault. *** hurts

Thankyou for this response. It is good to hear an honest opinion from the other end and Im not too stubborn to see playing a sorc can be tedious. Its just on my end I am trying to balance Mitigation with DPS and when I have to use 3 slots on a skill bar to mitigate what hardened ward does(which takes one slot) that gives me less slots for dps skills. I came to the forums to suggest that perhaps stamina builds could receive a comparable skill.

You aare already in the postition to use the defensive actions that don't take a place on your skillbar a lot more often than a magicka build, mainly roll dodge. So because a magicka build in light armor is also squishier and can dodge/block less, they need more defensive skills than again. I don't see the problem.

Xael

Body is required.

Tintinabula

ToRelax wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

iseko wrote: »

hardened ward is a 8-12k shield depending on your setup.1-2 snipes or wrecking blows and it is down. It is not an I win button. It also does not give immunity to stun. You are focusing to much on the shield itself. I would trade hardened ward for dragonscales in a heartbeat. Far more useful imho.

I dont like playing with my sorc though. Gets tedious. I finally found a magicka built on my temp that I like. 9K blazing shield with infinite magicka, good heals and some fairly good dps. It's good in 1v1-2-3. But no more. 9K blazing shield? 1-2 hits and it is down. Same as hardened ward. Again: no cc immunity. Still need to block stun attacks.

And no. There is no true equivalent for hardened ward as a stam build. But there are other defenses. Such as roll dodge and block. If u get rally + vigor + block + scales and CP in block reduction. No mage can kill you in 1v1. Add to that block casting and well... Sorc QQ incoming. Hell I've seen many sorcs die from: invasion + talons + soul assault. *** hurts

Thankyou for this response. It is good to hear an honest opinion from the other end and Im not too stubborn to see playing a sorc can be tedious. Its just on my end I am trying to balance Mitigation with DPS and when I have to use 3 slots on a skill bar to mitigate what hardened ward does(which takes one slot) that gives me less slots for dps skills. I came to the forums to suggest that perhaps stamina builds could receive a comparable skill.

You aare already in the postition to use the defensive actions that don't take a place on your skillbar a lot more often than a magicka build, mainly roll dodge. So because a magicka build in light armor is also squishier and can dodge/block less, they need more defensive skills than again. I don't see the problem.

Im not seeing how a dodge roll which gives me a 4 sec increase in armor and evade( not a shield mind you) which also dips into my stamina pool on weapon skills is comparable.

hamon

Tintinabula wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Stam builds already have the equivalent shield to hardened ward. Its called blocking.

this is why we are seeing so many S/B sorcs (best of both worlds)

iseko wrote: »

hardened ward is a 8-12k shield depending on your setup.1-2 snipes or wrecking blows and it is down. It is not an I win button. It also does not give immunity to stun. You are focusing to much on the shield itself. I would trade hardened ward for dragonscales in a heartbeat. Far more useful imho.

I dont like playing with my sorc though. Gets tedious. I finally found a magicka built on my temp that I like. 9K blazing shield with infinite magicka, good heals and some fairly good dps. It's good in 1v1-2-3. But no more. 9K blazing shield? 1-2 hits and it is down. Same as hardened ward. Again: no cc immunity. Still need to block stun attacks.

And no. There is no true equivalent for hardened ward as a stam build. But there are other defenses. Such as roll dodge and block. If u get rally + vigor + block + scales and CP in block reduction. No mage can kill you in 1v1. Add to that block casting and well... Sorc QQ incoming. Hell I've seen many sorcs die from: invasion + talons + soul assault. *** hurts

Thankyou for this response. It is good to hear an honest opinion from the other end and Im not too stubborn to see playing a sorc can be tedious. Its just on my end I am trying to balance Mitigation with DPS and when I have to use 3 slots on a skill bar to mitigate what hardened ward does(which takes one slot) that gives me less slots for dps skills. I came to the forums to suggest that perhaps stamina builds could receive a comparable skill.

dont be fooled, i play all 4 classes and your right there is no comparison to hardened ward. Don't let sorcs throw a load of bull at you either.

they compare dodge roll to ward,, but when i,m on my sorc i simply hit bolt at times dodge roll could be used as easily as dodge on my stam classes. dodge doesnt take you well away from certain death by simply pressing it 3 times rapid either.

hardened ward lasts longer is much stronger and costs less that any other shield in the game. you can load an addon that gives u a nice unmissable timer telling you how long before it drops.

in regards to blocking , the biggest damage things in cyrodiil right (not counting ulti's) now are crystal frags, snipe and wrecking blow. now guess which class has one that can be used while holding up sword and board?

cos once again to get maximum mitigation from blocking you want to use sword and board. yep sorcs have the luxury of being able to throw out a couple of instant (non reflectables) like curse or entropy wait for the instant frags to proc and throw out their big damage spell from behind the sword and shield block.

they say block as well. but sorcs can block just fine. yes they have much less stam , but since they have no need to dodge roll (which after all they keep telling you thats the balance for ward) their stam is purely for blocking , not block plus dodge plus dps on a stam character.

but don't take my word for it either. just look around cyrodiil , see how many players are sorcs these days.. folk will change to the most powerfull class in any game like this, right now thats sorcs.. everyone knows it.. just the sorcs on here will attack anyone trying to point out these things.

golfer.dub17_ESO

Stamina builds don't have many damage shields, but I've seen people who combine shuffle with dodge rolls and become impossible for an entire crowd to hit them.

I think maybe it's for the best we don't have many.

which also dips into my stamina pool on weapon skills is comparable.

Shields require Magicka which is used for class and stave abilities...

Granted shields are probably more cost effective than roll spamming.

Tintinabula

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Stamina builds don't have many damage shields, but I've seen people who combine shuffle with dodge rolls and become impossible for an entire crowd to hit them.

I think maybe it's for the best we don't have many.

which also dips into my stamina pool on weapon skills is comparable.

Shields require Magicka which is used for class and stave abilities...

Granted shields are probably more cost effective than roll spamming.

This is basically what Ive seen and found.

Sythias

Not falling on either side - but keep in mind dodge roll doesn't negate everything, where a ward will negate all damage.

Teargrants

Sythias wrote: »

Not falling on either side - but keep in mind dodge roll doesn't negate everything, where a ward will negate all damage.

Wards don't negate everything, at 30k magicka your hardened Ward is only going to 'negate' 10k unmitigated dmg. A doge roll will negate an infinite number of single target attacks during the immune frames, save for certain skills like flame lash.

You can't put wards up if you're CC'd, to keep wards up you need to keep block up. Dodge roll evades most hard CC.

vichoi

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Stam builds already have the equivalent shield to hardened ward. Its called blocking.

this is why we are seeing so many S/B sorcs (best of both worlds)

That isn't even the least bit true. With all my points into magic, I can't just stand there and block. I have the s/b for defensive stance and the set bonus.

True, Sorc use S/B so they won't killed by their own reflectable spell, not for blocking which cost too high stam.
sorc only have one good damge skill that is CF (and only if it proc.), which is reflectable so sorc are forced to use S/B, they don't have a choice.
hardern ward is the only reason magicka base sorc still exist, if there's stam based ward, they'll all reroll stam sorc.