Toppeling Charge and Templar GCD 2.0.8*

Imdrefan

pecheckler wrote: »

The toppling charge animation is reliable now if there is a clear path to the target. However if there are terrain differences or boxes/crates/stairs/etc in the line of sight it still occasionally bugs the animation. The target NPC then becomes visually stuck in the location they were charged, but the NPC actually moves around and becomes invisible. I discovered this when switching to a secondary weapon and began using invasion after the bugged animation occurred. After the invisible NPC is killed (only target-able by ranged attacks) the stuck NPCs location changes and the corpse appears in the correct place (and then the toppling charge animation reverts back to normal).

Yea, the pathing needs some work. I wish we had some concrete evidence though. I really want to see this fixed

wafcatb14_ESO

This bug has been around for atleast the last 6 months its not new , and has been reported several times, i guess the bug getting fixed depends on if they sell enough in the cash store to pay the guy who is supposed to fix the bug.

glak

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

apart from teh bug, its still a pretty slow charge ability as those go.

need to reduce the GBC after landing the attack by about 0.3s to improve responsiveness after charging.

Removing the animated pole-vault after charge will do that.

glak

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Fixes are indeed tested thoroughly.

Does thoroughly include simulating latency? If the testers don't know how to do that,

http://jagt.github.io/clumsy/

http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/61483/how-can-i-simulate-a-bad-internet-connection-for-testing-purposes

technohic

glak wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

apart from teh bug, its still a pretty slow charge ability as those go.

need to reduce the GBC after landing the attack by about 0.3s to improve responsiveness after charging.

Removing the animated pole-vault after charge will do that.

This!

ZOS_GaryA

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

Imdrefan

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

Thanks.

And any info on whether or not the GCD could be changed would be great.

Olysja

10% chance to enter an endless toppling charge against an enemy in pvp..... no way to break it. tried to rolldodge doubletap sprint weapswap drinkpotion. tried all and nothing works : ( fix this *** pls.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Imdrefan wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

Thanks.

And any info on whether or not the GCD could be changed would be great.

They've been evasive on whether any GCD is intended or not. Eric said it was a bug, but then patch notes released after he said that indicated it was not (they said they 'slightly reduced' the GCD). You'll note that in this thread and others, they continue to be evasive, and never answer the question directly. It seems pretty clear that they still intend for there to be a GCD with this skill (despite what Eric told us), that this GCD is still bugging out the skill, and that they never will remove the GCD entirely.

This lies at the heart of the bugs with the skill. Don't expect it to be fixed anytime soon.

technohic

I think the GCD and the stuck bug has to do with the animation and they have tried to tweak it as much as they can, and its not working. They will probably have to redo the animation or even the mechanic of it and that would likely fall in the more effort they won't do until after console launch.

Just me speculating is all.

Phinix1

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

... We know that it happens in the heat of combat, but that data would be super valuable, even if you only /bug it once. In short, some of you may die, but that's a risk we're willing to take.

LOL!

Nice to see a sense of humor around here. Who says you mods are all soulless minions of orthodoxy?

Jaxsun

@ZOS_BradL

So, you closed my thread titled "@ZOS, why is there global cool down on Toppling Charge" because there is already another thread on the matter, presumably this one. But you have failed to answer the question yet again and are now being obstinate when flat out asked a legitimate question.

Why?

Jaxsun

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Saft

technohic wrote: »

I think the GCD and the stuck bug has to do with the animation and they have tried to tweak it as much as they can, and its not working. They will probably have to redo the animation or even the mechanic of it and that would likely fall in the more effort they won't do until after console launch.

Just me speculating is all.

I just wish they would get rid of the entire skill. and change it, perhaps we could get an instant cast invis with bonus to run speed. OR a teleport that create a 10k dmg shield instead?

technohic

Saft wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I think the GCD and the stuck bug has to do with the animation and they have tried to tweak it as much as they can, and its not working. They will probably have to redo the animation or even the mechanic of it and that would likely fall in the more effort they won't do until after console launch.

Just me speculating is all.

I just wish they would get rid of the entire skill. and change it, perhaps we could get an instant cast invis with bonus to run speed. OR a teleport that create a 10k dmg shield instead?

Heh. Like the teleport idea or rather it just become a leap graphically for that to bypass possible terrain issues and maybe reduce animation lag, but a 10k damage shield to go with it would be over the top.

Saft

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Yeah they dodge this over and over. and GCD to our solar barrage. GCD is almost entirely an templar thing. Our jabs cause CC immunity, but DK can run around AE root with no CC immunity. Eclipse cause CC immunity why do all templar skills cause Immunity Zenimax? Don't you see we are already in worst place in pvp.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/166110/weakest-class-in-pvp/p1

Templars are in worst place, and always been. They stated so many times they are looking into templar class. And only thing not completly worthless was radiant destruction.

Saft

technohic wrote: »

Saft wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I think the GCD and the stuck bug has to do with the animation and they have tried to tweak it as much as they can, and its not working. They will probably have to redo the animation or even the mechanic of it and that would likely fall in the more effort they won't do until after console launch.

Just me speculating is all.

I just wish they would get rid of the entire skill. and change it, perhaps we could get an instant cast invis with bonus to run speed. OR a teleport that create a 10k dmg shield instead?

Heh. Like the teleport idea or rather it just become a leap graphically for that to bypass possible terrain issues and maybe reduce animation lag, but a 10k damage shield to go with it would be over the top.

nm don't wanna derail your tread by my ranting

Jaxsun

Saft wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Yeah they dodge this over and over. and GCD to our solar barrage. GCD is almost entirely an templar thing. Our jabs cause CC immunity, but DK can run around AE root with no CC immunity. Eclipse cause CC immunity why do all templar skills cause Immunity Zenimax? Don't you see we are already in worst place in pvp.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/166110/weakest-class-in-pvp/p1

Templars are in worst place, and always been. They stated so many times they are looking into templar class. And only thing not completly worthless was radiant destruction.

The only reason I can see for them ignoring the question is because it's intended. And rather than have to answer numerous other questions about why it's intended they just say nothing. I think they added it with the "botting" fix added in 1.2. Which they have also never responded to when asked about....

ZOS_GaryA

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Best answer we can give at the moment: We can confirm there is a post global cooldown on the ability, but we don't readily have an answer as to why it has one and Shield Charge does not. We're always open to feedback on abilities, and we'll be happy to forward this along to the appropriate folks. We know it's a non-answer, but we also didn't want you to think we'd ignored it intentionally.

On the good news front, we believe that the root cause has been discovered for the Toppling Charge bug and a new fix is headed to QA for verification tomorrow. Assuming everything goes well, it'll be included in an incremental patch soon. Thanks so much for the feedback, it was a huge help!

david.haypreub18_ESO

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Best answer we can give at the moment: We can confirm there is a post global cooldown on the ability, but we don't readily have an answer as to why it has one and Shield Charge does not.

The answer is because you introduced it shortly after launch. We have no idea why you did that, but you were the ones who did it; it seemed to have something to do with bots. Is there no one there who knows why? Eric certainly thought it was a bug on the ESO Live a couple of months back. How can your own lead combat designer think it's a bug, and at the same time no one on your dev team have any idea why it is there, and still others somewhere in ZOS offices who insist on keeping the GCD? Worse, how can anyone see this cleary messed-up situation, where the left hand doesn't know what he right is doing, and ignore it month after month after month?

We're always open to feedback on abilities, and we'll be happy to forward this along to the appropriate folks. We know it's a non-answer, but we also didn't want you to think we'd ignored it intentionally.

Well, thanks for that. From all Templars everywhere, please forward this feedback on to the appropriate folks: remove the GCD. ESPECIALLY if no one can remember why it is there in the first place.

On the good news front, we believe that the root cause has been discovered for the Toppling Charge bug and a new fix is headed to QA for verification tomorrow. Assuming everything goes well, it'll be included in an incremental patch soon. Thanks so much for the feedback, it was a huge help!

Burn me once...

Imdrefan

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Imdrefan wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

Thanks.

And any info on whether or not the GCD could be changed would be great.

They've been evasive on whether any GCD is intended or not. Eric said it was a bug, but then patch notes released after he said that indicated it was not (they said they 'slightly reduced' the GCD). You'll note that in this thread and others, they continue to be evasive, and never answer the question directly. It seems pretty clear that they still intend for there to be a GCD with this skill (despite what Eric told us), that this GCD is still bugging out the skill, and that they never will remove the GCD entirely.

This lies at the heart of the bugs with the skill. Don't expect it to be fixed anytime soon.

I was using toppling charge when it didn't have the GCD and I remember being able to animation cancel the charge and bash 3/4 of the way through the charge it was definitely not working properly. It made attack weaving faster which is not what they wanted. But it seems for a year we have been plagued with the over compensation fix.

@ZOS_GaryA thank you for your communication on this and I look forward to trying out the new fix.

Jaxsun

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Best answer we can give at the moment: We can confirm there is a post global cooldown on the ability, but we don't readily have an answer as to why it has one and Shield Charge does not. We're always open to feedback on abilities, and we'll be happy to forward this along to the appropriate folks. We know it's a non-answer, but we also didn't want you to think we'd ignored it intentionally.

On the good news front, we believe that the root cause has been discovered for the Toppling Charge bug and a new fix is headed to QA for verification tomorrow. Assuming everything goes well, it'll be included in an incremental patch soon. Thanks so much for the feedback, it was a huge help!

Thank you for replying to it directly. There is no need to spend time or money trying to figure out why the cool down exists. Simply remove it and we'll all cross it off our lists. Thanks again.

Jaxsun

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Best answer we can give at the moment: We can confirm there is a post global cooldown on the ability, but we don't readily have an answer as to why it has one and Shield Charge does not.

The answer is because you introduced it shortly after launch. We have no idea why you did that, but you were the ones who did it; it seemed to have something to do with bots. Is there no one there who knows why? Eric certainly thought it was a bug on the ESO Live a couple of months back. How can your own lead combat designer think it's a bug, and at the same time no one on your dev team have any idea why it is there, and still others somewhere in ZOS offices who insist on keeping the GCD? Worse, how can anyone see this cleary messed-up situation, where the left hand doesn't know what he right is doing, and ignore it month after month after month?

We're always open to feedback on abilities, and we'll be happy to forward this along to the appropriate folks. We know it's a non-answer, but we also didn't want you to think we'd ignored it intentionally.

Well, thanks for that. From all Templars everywhere, please forward this feedback on to the appropriate folks: remove the GCD. ESPECIALLY if no one can remember why it is there in the first place.

On the good news front, we believe that the root cause has been discovered for the Toppling Charge bug and a new fix is headed to QA for verification tomorrow. Assuming everything goes well, it'll be included in an incremental patch soon. Thanks so much for the feedback, it was a huge help!

Burn me once...

Exactly!!

WhiteTigre

@ZOS_GaryA

I see someone complained that the charge does not work well on the incline or decline or if objects are in the way,

I did mention this in one other thread regarding this before and I wonder if this issue has been addressed in your fix ?
It also makes me wonder if you guys read all the complains on technical issues and glitches that occur, on focu charge. I have stopped using it for now until its fixed.

I have another query, The eclipse spell, does it also block melee attacks from enemy NPC"s when they are encased in the bubble, because IF IT IS supposed to stop enemy npc's from attacking with melee then its not working. My Templar Still gets hit and suffers damage if its enemy NPC Melee but the NPC does not suffer damage.

Saft

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Best answer we can give at the moment: We can confirm there is a post global cooldown on the ability, but we don't readily have an answer as to why it has one and Shield Charge does not. We're always open to feedback on abilities, and we'll be happy to forward this along to the appropriate folks. We know it's a non-answer, but we also didn't want you to think we'd ignored it intentionally.

On the good news front, we believe that the root cause has been discovered for the Toppling Charge bug and a new fix is headed to QA for verification tomorrow. Assuming everything goes well, it'll be included in an incremental patch soon. Thanks so much for the feedback, it was a huge help!

Apresiate your answer regarding the GCD on toppling i really do. And happy to see you compare it to the very simular shield charge which not has GCD.

thanks

technohic

WhiteTigre wrote: »

@ZOS_GaryA

I see someone complained that the charge does not work well on the incline or decline or if objects are in the way,

I did mention this in one other thread regarding this before and I wonder if this issue has been addressed in your fix ?
It also makes me wonder if you guys read all the complains on technical issues and glitches that occur, on focu charge. I have stopped using it for now until its fixed.

I have another query, The eclipse spell, does it also block melee attacks from enemy NPC"s when they are encased in the bubble, because IF IT IS supposed to stop enemy npc's from attacking with melee then its not working. My Templar Still gets hit and suffers damage if its enemy NPC Melee but the NPC does not suffer damage.

Eclipse is only for harmful single target spells so that is working as intended.

ZOS_GaryA

Jaxsun wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Best answer we can give at the moment: We can confirm there is a post global cooldown on the ability, but we don't readily have an answer as to why it has one and Shield Charge does not.

The answer is because you introduced it shortly after launch. We have no idea why you did that, but you were the ones who did it; it seemed to have something to do with bots. Is there no one there who knows why? Eric certainly thought it was a bug on the ESO Live a couple of months back. How can your own lead combat designer think it's a bug, and at the same time no one on your dev team have any idea why it is there, and still others somewhere in ZOS offices who insist on keeping the GCD? Worse, how can anyone see this cleary messed-up situation, where the left hand doesn't know what he right is doing, and ignore it month after month after month?

We're always open to feedback on abilities, and we'll be happy to forward this along to the appropriate folks. We know it's a non-answer, but we also didn't want you to think we'd ignored it intentionally.

Well, thanks for that. From all Templars everywhere, please forward this feedback on to the appropriate folks: remove the GCD. ESPECIALLY if no one can remember why it is there in the first place.

On the good news front, we believe that the root cause has been discovered for the Toppling Charge bug and a new fix is headed to QA for verification tomorrow. Assuming everything goes well, it'll be included in an incremental patch soon. Thanks so much for the feedback, it was a huge help!

Burn me once...

Exactly!!

Again, happy to forward it along. It's not a matter of "no one knows why it was there in the first place." By all accounts we've heard so far, the GCD is by design. We'll get in touch with some folks and ask about said design to see if we can get some better clarification.

I knew the previous answer wasn't a great one, but figured it was better to say "we'll look" rather than let it sit.

Thanks for your patience and feedback everyone .

Animal_Mother

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Why is there a GCD on any of our skills?

TC isn't the only ability that seems affected by having one - it is one of the most noticeable. I've experienced delays with pretty much any of our skills - Sun Shield, Spear Shards, Backlash, any of the Restoring LIght tree. They don't seem to fire on keypress, press the key again, nothing and finally a third time and the ability goes off multiple times. Yet, skills like Cleave, Reverse Slash, Poison Arrow, and Arrow Spray activate reliably, without any issues. This with pings under 140ms.

Cinbri

Animal_Mother wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Why is there a GCD on any of our skills?

TC isn't the only ability that seems affected by having one - it is one of the most noticeable. I've experienced delays with pretty much any of our skills - Sun Shield, Spear Shards, Backlash, any of the Restoring LIght tree. They don't seem to fire on keypress, press the key again, nothing and finally a third time and the ability goes off multiple times. Yet, skills like Cleave, Reverse Slash, Poison Arrow, and Arrow Spray activate reliably, without any issues. This with pings under 140ms.

Btw did anyone know that using Spear Shards or Solar Barrage, despite being instant cast, has long animation. If you activating those skills, skillfull enemy can interrupt you by bashing. Didn't test with other templars instant casts but still.

Jaxsun

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Thanks everyone, we've sent the additional feedback along to the correct place to be investigated!

@ZOS_GaryA

Why is there a global cool down on Toppling Charge?

Best answer we can give at the moment: We can confirm there is a post global cooldown on the ability, but we don't readily have an answer as to why it has one and Shield Charge does not.

The answer is because you introduced it shortly after launch. We have no idea why you did that, but you were the ones who did it; it seemed to have something to do with bots. Is there no one there who knows why? Eric certainly thought it was a bug on the ESO Live a couple of months back. How can your own lead combat designer think it's a bug, and at the same time no one on your dev team have any idea why it is there, and still others somewhere in ZOS offices who insist on keeping the GCD? Worse, how can anyone see this cleary messed-up situation, where the left hand doesn't know what he right is doing, and ignore it month after month after month?

We're always open to feedback on abilities, and we'll be happy to forward this along to the appropriate folks. We know it's a non-answer, but we also didn't want you to think we'd ignored it intentionally.

Well, thanks for that. From all Templars everywhere, please forward this feedback on to the appropriate folks: remove the GCD. ESPECIALLY if no one can remember why it is there in the first place.

On the good news front, we believe that the root cause has been discovered for the Toppling Charge bug and a new fix is headed to QA for verification tomorrow. Assuming everything goes well, it'll be included in an incremental patch soon. Thanks so much for the feedback, it was a huge help!

Burn me once...

Exactly!!

Again, happy to forward it along. It's not a matter of "no one knows why it was there in the first place." By all accounts we've heard so far, the GCD is by design. We'll get in touch with some folks and ask about said design to see if we can get some better clarification.

I knew the previous answer wasn't a great one, but figured it was better to say "we'll look" rather than let it sit.

Thanks for your patience and feedback everyone .

We already know why, the cool down was implemented as an anti-bot mechanic. The next step is admitting that's why it was implemented and remove it...