Ball of Lightning - OP defensively?

Derra

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Posting in Nerf Sorc thread #203,453

BoL is such an unreliable buggy mess right now it's infuriating. Do you have any idea how stupid it is to try to block an incoming crit-charge at the same time someone crushing shocks you through your BoL which completely drains your stamina?

Staff attacks now go through BoL which bug it and completely broke the ability.

As a Sorc, I hope they do nerf it. It renders Sorc vs Sorc lol worthy. As a sorc who runs Streak, I find myself trying desperately to get "under" the ball, and I find it extremely satisfying when they depend on it too much and neglect their ward. They explode quite fantastically, and their god balls fade silently away leaving nothing but their rotting corpse.

Seriously though Streak is better in every other way possible:

*Stuns through it's entire path
*Does good damage
*Goes through dodge roll
*Reveals stealthed enemies

For everyone that cares about cc timing streak stunning through block and offering basically free cc immunity if you should use it offensively (not recommended) is absolute ***.
I´m running BOL bc when i can´t use streak without making my enemy cc immune i might aswell use the defensive morph.

Germtrocity

Buff streak back to where it was previously (soft CC over hard CC) and everything will be fine.

Laerwen

Ezareth wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Posting in Nerf Sorc thread #203,453

BoL is such an unreliable buggy mess right now it's infuriating. Do you have any idea how stupid it is to try to block an incoming crit-charge at the same time someone crushing shocks you through your BoL which completely drains your stamina?

Staff attacks now go through BoL which bug it and completely broke the ability.

As a Sorc, I hope they do nerf it. It renders Sorc vs Sorc lol worthy. As a sorc who runs Streak, I find myself trying desperately to get "under" the ball, and I find it extremely satisfying when they depend on it too much and neglect their ward. They explode quite fantastically, and their god balls fade silently away leaving nothing but their rotting corpse.

Seriously though Streak is better in every other way possible:

*Stuns through it's entire path
*Does good damage
*Goes through dodge roll
*Reveals stealthed enemies

It also gives cc immunity to everyone it stuns. BOL reveals stealth as well, it is just hard to do it since it only works around the caster. The damage of streak is nowhere near good right now.

My streak does over 3k which is roughly three quarters of a crushing shock. How much damage are you expecting from a teleporting aoe cc? BOL is not a practical stealth reveal. Literally the only reason to use it over streak is the ball. Streak is a stealth and dodgeroll killer. If they choose to not cc break, believe me they will die because of it.

Ezareth

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Posting in Nerf Sorc thread #203,453

BoL is such an unreliable buggy mess right now it's infuriating. Do you have any idea how stupid it is to try to block an incoming crit-charge at the same time someone crushing shocks you through your BoL which completely drains your stamina?

Staff attacks now go through BoL which bug it and completely broke the ability.

As a Sorc, I hope they do nerf it. It renders Sorc vs Sorc lol worthy. As a sorc who runs Streak, I find myself trying desperately to get "under" the ball, and I find it extremely satisfying when they depend on it too much and neglect their ward. They explode quite fantastically, and their god balls fade silently away leaving nothing but their rotting corpse.

Seriously though Streak is better in every other way possible:

*Stuns through it's entire path
*Does good damage
*Goes through dodge roll
*Reveals stealthed enemies

It also gives cc immunity to everyone it stuns. BOL reveals stealth as well, it is just hard to do it since it only works around the caster. The damage of streak is nowhere near good right now.

My streak does over 3k which is roughly three quarters of a crushing shock. How much damage are you expecting from a teleporting aoe cc? BOL is not a practical stealth reveal. Literally the only reason to use it over streak is the ball. Streak is a stealth and dodgeroll killer. If they choose to not cc break, believe me they will die because of it.

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

Laerwen

Ezareth wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Posting in Nerf Sorc thread #203,453

BoL is such an unreliable buggy mess right now it's infuriating. Do you have any idea how stupid it is to try to block an incoming crit-charge at the same time someone crushing shocks you through your BoL which completely drains your stamina?

Staff attacks now go through BoL which bug it and completely broke the ability.

As a Sorc, I hope they do nerf it. It renders Sorc vs Sorc lol worthy. As a sorc who runs Streak, I find myself trying desperately to get "under" the ball, and I find it extremely satisfying when they depend on it too much and neglect their ward. They explode quite fantastically, and their god balls fade silently away leaving nothing but their rotting corpse.

Seriously though Streak is better in every other way possible:

*Stuns through it's entire path
*Does good damage
*Goes through dodge roll
*Reveals stealthed enemies

It also gives cc immunity to everyone it stuns. BOL reveals stealth as well, it is just hard to do it since it only works around the caster. The damage of streak is nowhere near good right now.

My streak does over 3k which is roughly three quarters of a crushing shock. How much damage are you expecting from a teleporting aoe cc? BOL is not a practical stealth reveal. Literally the only reason to use it over streak is the ball. Streak is a stealth and dodgeroll killer. If they choose to not cc break, believe me they will die because of it.

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

Fair enough but I don't think you are giving credit and/or realize the power of streak when combined with our new found 1.6 power. It enables me to regularly take out 2-3 v14 simultaneously, solo.

cozmon3c_ESO

if we are going to buff streak to where it was in 1.5 it needs to do 6k, as that was what mine would have translated to if they did the math right.

Makkir

"We're all going to go streaking! Everyone's doing it"

Ezareth

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Posting in Nerf Sorc thread #203,453

BoL is such an unreliable buggy mess right now it's infuriating. Do you have any idea how stupid it is to try to block an incoming crit-charge at the same time someone crushing shocks you through your BoL which completely drains your stamina?

Staff attacks now go through BoL which bug it and completely broke the ability.

As a Sorc, I hope they do nerf it. It renders Sorc vs Sorc lol worthy. As a sorc who runs Streak, I find myself trying desperately to get "under" the ball, and I find it extremely satisfying when they depend on it too much and neglect their ward. They explode quite fantastically, and their god balls fade silently away leaving nothing but their rotting corpse.

Seriously though Streak is better in every other way possible:

*Stuns through it's entire path
*Does good damage
*Goes through dodge roll
*Reveals stealthed enemies

It also gives cc immunity to everyone it stuns. BOL reveals stealth as well, it is just hard to do it since it only works around the caster. The damage of streak is nowhere near good right now.

My streak does over 3k which is roughly three quarters of a crushing shock. How much damage are you expecting from a teleporting aoe cc? BOL is not a practical stealth reveal. Literally the only reason to use it over streak is the ball. Streak is a stealth and dodgeroll killer. If they choose to not cc break, believe me they will die because of it.

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

Fair enough but I don't think you are giving credit and/or realize the power of streak when combined with our new found 1.6 power. It enables me to regularly take out 2-3 v14 simultaneously, solo.

I regularly take out 2-3 and more V14s solo all the time but that has nothing to do with being Sorc or Streak versus BoL, just fighting bad players. Hell I've taken out 8 on 1 that I have video of and 30 on 1 that I didn't get a video of. BoL as long as I'm fighting players who don't know how to bug it allow me to use it to avoid a ton of damage and save me stamina from having to block things like Crystal fragments plus it allows me to cast against players with crushing shock if I need.

I don't however have any video of me killing 2 great players 2 on 1 as right now there are players of every class who are evenly matched with me and some players who have the upper hand. At the top end of the skill tree I'd say the classes are pretty balanced except maybe Magicka templar are pretty weak offensively right now.

Digiman

Vynn wrote: »

I want to start out by noting that as a DK, I agree completely with the nerf to reflective scale and its morphs in which there is a limit of 4 projectiles that can be reflected. It was absolutely necessary as the ability previous made DKs immune to single target ranged damage entirely as long as the ability was kept up, no matter how many attackers there were. But now there is a similar problem with the ability Ball of LIghtning. While it does not reflect abilities, so is a slightly different animal, the capabilities of BoL are overpowered in much the same way as reflective scale was in a defensive sense. BoL works off of a duration , which as long as you or or allies are near the ball of lightning as it persists, the ranged attacks are absorbed, no matter how many people are attacking.

I have discussed this ability several times with my guildies and we think a good balancing factor for this ability would be to limit the number of projectiles a BoL can absorbed before it disappears(4 to balance with the reflect for instance).

Just an idea, feel free to shoot it down/discuss, what have you. I'm curious what more people think about this change.

Peace......except in Cyrodiil of course ;D

You could spam reflect without inuring any penalties while moving about. BoL cost is increased by 50%. BoL only absorbs single target magical ranged attacks where the sorcerer has to be around.

AoE magical spells will prevent the Sorc from staying around the ball, other then that apply stress with melee physical attacks.

BoL is useless against 2handers, Sorcerer with light armor get torn to shreds if they have no shields up.

Vynn

Digiman wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

I want to start out by noting that as a DK, I agree completely with the nerf to reflective scale and its morphs in which there is a limit of 4 projectiles that can be reflected. It was absolutely necessary as the ability previous made DKs immune to single target ranged damage entirely as long as the ability was kept up, no matter how many attackers there were. But now there is a similar problem with the ability Ball of LIghtning. While it does not reflect abilities, so is a slightly different animal, the capabilities of BoL are overpowered in much the same way as reflective scale was in a defensive sense. BoL works off of a duration , which as long as you or or allies are near the ball of lightning as it persists, the ranged attacks are absorbed, no matter how many people are attacking.

I have discussed this ability several times with my guildies and we think a good balancing factor for this ability would be to limit the number of projectiles a BoL can absorbed before it disappears(4 to balance with the reflect for instance).

Just an idea, feel free to shoot it down/discuss, what have you. I'm curious what more people think about this change.

Peace......except in Cyrodiil of course ;D

You could spam reflect without inuring any penalties while moving about. BoL cost is increased by 50%. BoL only absorbs single target magical ranged attacks where the sorcerer has to be around.

AoE magical spells will prevent the Sorc from staying around the ball, other then that apply stress with melee physical attacks.

BoL is useless against 2handers, Sorcerer with light armor get torn to shreds if they have no shields up.

What does it matter that it is useless against two handers? So is Guard, and reflective scale. Neither do those abilities prevent aoe, so you are in the same boat as everyone else there. The ball lasts longer than the cost increase does, so that point is null.

Regardless of that, the point is that no matter how many spellcasters you have, the ability can counter the ranged spell projectiles. I think the ability should be re-worked to be for stam & magicka abilities, and put a cap on the # of abilities absorbed, not just endless nerf bat. I'm looking at balance, not just weakening sorcs.

Derra

Vynn wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

I want to start out by noting that as a DK, I agree completely with the nerf to reflective scale and its morphs in which there is a limit of 4 projectiles that can be reflected. It was absolutely necessary as the ability previous made DKs immune to single target ranged damage entirely as long as the ability was kept up, no matter how many attackers there were. But now there is a similar problem with the ability Ball of LIghtning. While it does not reflect abilities, so is a slightly different animal, the capabilities of BoL are overpowered in much the same way as reflective scale was in a defensive sense. BoL works off of a duration , which as long as you or or allies are near the ball of lightning as it persists, the ranged attacks are absorbed, no matter how many people are attacking.

I have discussed this ability several times with my guildies and we think a good balancing factor for this ability would be to limit the number of projectiles a BoL can absorbed before it disappears(4 to balance with the reflect for instance).

Just an idea, feel free to shoot it down/discuss, what have you. I'm curious what more people think about this change.

Peace......except in Cyrodiil of course ;D

You could spam reflect without inuring any penalties while moving about. BoL cost is increased by 50%. BoL only absorbs single target magical ranged attacks where the sorcerer has to be around.

AoE magical spells will prevent the Sorc from staying around the ball, other then that apply stress with melee physical attacks.

BoL is useless against 2handers, Sorcerer with light armor get torn to shreds if they have no shields up.

What does it matter that it is useless against two handers? So is Guard, and reflective scale. Neither do those abilities prevent aoe, so you are in the same boat as everyone else there. The ball lasts longer than the cost increase does, so that point is null.

Regardless of that, the point is that no matter how many spellcasters you have, the ability can counter the ranged spell projectiles. I think the ability should be re-worked to be for stam & magicka abilities, and put a cap on the # of abilities absorbed, not just endless nerf bat. I'm looking at balance, not just weakening sorcs.

You will never achieve balance with hardcounter abilities such as BOL and reflect. With a cap it will become less useful against multiple enemy encounters but absolutely nothing will change 1v1 or 2v1.

olsborg

BoL only works sometimes. Its bugged as f..

Tankqull

olsborg wrote: »

BoL only works sometimes. Its bugged as f..

bol is not really bugged but awefully designed.
1. the ball is not instantly generated but a fraction of a second after landing, all projectiles hitting in that small timeframe will not be absorbed. in laggy situations this timeframe is massivly increased leading to bol beeing useless in zergy situations (same can be observerd with cloak)
2. heavy desto attacks are not absorbed if the target is not the ball - so if you are able to keep the sorc "tracked" [not tab targetted - as that will lead all projectieles regardless of whom you acctually attacked to head for the ball incl. 180° cruisemissile fly-paths :P for 1-2secs] all heavy attacks (not only the channeled ones) will hit the sorc, nice side effect is that a sorc beeing hit actually bugs the ball and makes it useless for any other projectile.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

how about all the people that want to nerf all somewhat useful abilities of every class go play something else?

the self titled nerf police of the player base of ESO is what needs the nerf.

There are so many nerf posts Im surprised half of the players in the game are playing if the game is 'that bad'.

For me, Im fortunate enough to have played most major PVP MMOS, so what goes on with the classes here is actually minor compared to other games' class mechanics.

In fact, go play ArchAge if you want to experience true class imbalance. Be grateful for this game.

Oughash

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

ToRelax

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

Do you even know how much damage Crushing Shock is doing? And that is a weapon ability, you need a destro staff to sue it. Also, don't forget Molten Armaments. Every DK who tries to deal high damage should use that.

Ezareth

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

I think a good 20% of my deaths come from me killing myself on reflective scales by using my compressing overload technique on a DK that I didn't know was a DK until the wings flap. 18K overload crits to my face hurt )=

eventide03b14a_ESO

Vynn wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Ok, yes let's make it just like reflective scales then so the progectiles get reflected back also.
Also the term OP means over powerd, for some reason I think a lot of people lately have been calling everything OP when really it should just be called strong. Now if BOL reflected back at you it would be OP, as of right now though it's only strong.oh and If they nerf BOL like you want let's add 50% extra cost on reflective scales on the next cast within 4 seconss, that would be real fun.

Interesting idea. But reflecting the projectiles is the only other thing that reflective scales does(other than increasing the dmg with fire scale and buff from reflective etc). Where as BoL has the mobility and stun factors. If you want a defensive balance another option other than reducing the absorbing factor of BoL, would be to have reflective scale absorb all aoe around them and reflect only 4 attacks, that would be balance too. I don't want this, because I think it would be overpowered for DKs to have that. But it is apparent people don't want balance, have at it with BoL, enjoy.

I don't think that's what anyone is saying. There is already a significant cost to it and it only absorbs projectiles unlike RS with REFLECTS them.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Posting in Nerf Sorc thread #203,453

BoL is such an unreliable buggy mess right now it's infuriating. Do you have any idea how stupid it is to try to block an incoming crit-charge at the same time someone crushing shocks you through your BoL which completely drains your stamina?

Staff attacks now go through BoL which bug it and completely broke the ability.

As a Sorc, I hope they do nerf it. It renders Sorc vs Sorc lol worthy. As a sorc who runs Streak, I find myself trying desperately to get "under" the ball, and I find it extremely satisfying when they depend on it too much and neglect their ward. They explode quite fantastically, and their god balls fade silently away leaving nothing but their rotting corpse.

Seriously though Streak is better in every other way possible:

*Stuns through it's entire path
*Does good damage
*Goes through dodge roll
*Reveals stealthed enemies

It also gives cc immunity to everyone it stuns. BOL reveals stealth as well, it is just hard to do it since it only works around the caster. The damage of streak is nowhere near good right now.

I agree that they cost is too great compared to the damage it causes.

Ezareth

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Ok, yes let's make it just like reflective scales then so the progectiles get reflected back also.
Also the term OP means over powerd, for some reason I think a lot of people lately have been calling everything OP when really it should just be called strong. Now if BOL reflected back at you it would be OP, as of right now though it's only strong.oh and If they nerf BOL like you want let's add 50% extra cost on reflective scales on the next cast within 4 seconss, that would be real fun.

Interesting idea. But reflecting the projectiles is the only other thing that reflective scales does(other than increasing the dmg with fire scale and buff from reflective etc). Where as BoL has the mobility and stun factors. If you want a defensive balance another option other than reducing the absorbing factor of BoL, would be to have reflective scale absorb all aoe around them and reflect only 4 attacks, that would be balance too. I don't want this, because I think it would be overpowered for DKs to have that. But it is apparent people don't want balance, have at it with BoL, enjoy.

I don't think that's what anyone is saying. There is already a significant cost to it and it only absorbs projectiles unlike RS with REFLECTS them.

Don't forget Reflective scales also works on physical projectiles like Lethal arrow as well. God what I'd give for BoL to work on Physical projectiles as well haha.

Emma_Overload

Vynn wrote: »

I want to start out by noting that as a DK, I agree completely with the nerf to reflective scale and its morphs in which there is a limit of 4 projectiles that can be reflected. It was absolutely necessary as the ability previous made DKs immune to single target ranged damage entirely as long as the ability was kept up, no matter how many attackers there were. But now there is a similar problem with the ability Ball of LIghtning. While it does not reflect abilities, so is a slightly different animal, the capabilities of BoL are overpowered in much the same way as reflective scale was in a defensive sense. BoL works off of a duration , which as long as you or or allies are near the ball of lightning as it persists, the ranged attacks are absorbed, no matter how many people are attacking.

I have discussed this ability several times with my guildies and we think a good balancing factor for this ability would be to limit the number of projectiles a BoL can absorbed before it disappears(4 to balance with the reflect for instance).

Just an idea, feel free to shoot it down/discuss, what have you. I'm curious what more people think about this change.

Peace......except in Cyrodiil of course ;D

Your complaint would carry a lot more weight if BoL ACTUALLY absorbed all the spells it's supposed to... it most certainly does NOT.

BoL needs to be FIXED before we can have a reasonable discussion about nerfs! Having said that, my inclination is to reject any nerfs whatsoever for Bolt Escape or any of its morphs. This spell has been nerfed too much already!

Oughash

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

Do you even know how much damage Crushing Shock is doing? And that is a weapon ability, you need a destro staff to sue it. Also, don't forget Molten Armaments. Every DK who tries to deal high damage should use that.

Well aware of CS damage. It scales much better than whip, interrupts, gives you 3chances to crit, cost the same, and has 3x the range. I was just trying to compare class skills and the complaint about 3k damage.

ToRelax

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

Do you even know how much damage Crushing Shock is doing? And that is a weapon ability, you need a destro staff to sue it. Also, don't forget Molten Armaments. Every DK who tries to deal high damage should use that.

Well aware of CS damage. It scales much better than whip, interrupts, gives you 3chances to crit, cost the same, and has 3x the range. I was just trying to compare class skills and the complaint about 3k damage.

You were trying to compare class skills you can hardly compare - Sorcs has no instant damage low cost damaging ability.

Oughash

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

Do you even know how much damage Crushing Shock is doing? And that is a weapon ability, you need a destro staff to sue it. Also, don't forget Molten Armaments. Every DK who tries to deal high damage should use that.

Well aware of CS damage. It scales much better than whip, interrupts, gives you 3chances to crit, cost the same, and has 3x the range. I was just trying to compare class skills and the complaint about 3k damage.

You were trying to compare class skills you can hardly compare - Sorcs has no instant damage low cost damaging ability.

Mate, I think you missed some context. EZareths coment was that 3k DMG on a sorc utility skill was nothing. I was simply making the observation that DKs number one damage skill hits for about the same, ergo that DK melee magicka is pretty lackluster in terms of raw damage output. That sorcs have no instant cast damage skill was not part of the discussion.

Ezareth

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

Do you even know how much damage Crushing Shock is doing? And that is a weapon ability, you need a destro staff to sue it. Also, don't forget Molten Armaments. Every DK who tries to deal high damage should use that.

Well aware of CS damage. It scales much better than whip, interrupts, gives you 3chances to crit, cost the same, and has 3x the range. I was just trying to compare class skills and the complaint about 3k damage.

That's because the Destro Penetration passive is the last residual "Bugged" penetration effect. I do more damage with a single instant cast Crushing shock than my Crystal fragments hit for right now.

Ohh and don't forget that against Vamps all *three* of the Crushing shock hits receive the 50% fire bonus modifer.

Ezareth

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

Do you even know how much damage Crushing Shock is doing? And that is a weapon ability, you need a destro staff to sue it. Also, don't forget Molten Armaments. Every DK who tries to deal high damage should use that.

Well aware of CS damage. It scales much better than whip, interrupts, gives you 3chances to crit, cost the same, and has 3x the range. I was just trying to compare class skills and the complaint about 3k damage.

You were trying to compare class skills you can hardly compare - Sorcs has no instant damage low cost damaging ability.

Mate, I think you missed some context. EZareths coment was that 3k DMG on a sorc utility skill was nothing. I was simply making the observation that DKs number one damage skill hits for about the same, ergo that DK melee magicka is pretty lackluster in terms of raw damage output. That sorcs have no instant cast damage skill was not part of the discussion.

Well I'd like to see some numbers on that because when I come up on a Magicka DK built right his Flame whip is doing a hell of a lot more than 3K a hit on me but I will admit that it is much weaker in 1.6 than 1.5 for sure.

Also keep in mind 3K streak damage is on a magicka/spell power stacking Sorc (I can't give you exact numbers since I dont have it but I'm sure the base damage is far far lower than 3K).

Oughash

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

Do you even know how much damage Crushing Shock is doing? And that is a weapon ability, you need a destro staff to sue it. Also, don't forget Molten Armaments. Every DK who tries to deal high damage should use that.

Well aware of CS damage. It scales much better than whip, interrupts, gives you 3chances to crit, cost the same, and has 3x the range. I was just trying to compare class skills and the complaint about 3k damage.

You were trying to compare class skills you can hardly compare - Sorcs has no instant damage low cost damaging ability.

Mate, I think you missed some context. EZareths coment was that 3k DMG on a sorc utility skill was nothing. I was simply making the observation that DKs number one damage skill hits for about the same, ergo that DK melee magicka is pretty lackluster in terms of raw damage output. That sorcs have no instant cast damage skill was not part of the discussion.

Well I'd like to see some numbers on that because when I come up on a Magicka DK built right his Flame whip is doing a hell of a lot more than 3K a hit on me but I will admit that it is much weaker in 1.6 than 1.5 for sure.

Also keep in mind 3K streak damage is on a magicka/spell power stacking Sorc (I can't give you exact numbers since I dont have it but I'm sure the base damage is far far lower than 3K).

I can do it tonight and post screenshots. The root of the problem is thus: whip hits against spell resist now. As you have noticed and commented in other threads, Nirn makes it so every glass cannon build can achieve >20k spell resist w/o even trying. If you sorta try: I put two pieces of nirn on a Heavy set, +DK spell resist bonus, +Breton bonus, +Armor buff = 45k spell resist. Prior to 1.6, whip hit against armor. And everyone ran light armor. Finally, LOL if your enemy is running Harness Magicka -- he is untouchable to whip.

My Flame Whip tooltip is ~4.3k w/ ~26k mana and 1300 spell power. Yes, thats low. But speccing for a glassier build will get you insta-gibbed in melee range.

Ezareth

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the offensive front but 3K damage is really barely worth mentioning. I love streak sorcs as they're the easiest kills for me on the battlefield outside of lolSniper NBs who have no idea how to do anything but mash their lethal arrow key and try to stealth. Every single time a streak sorc has tried running when I'm chasing them they've died unless they were 2 hops to a large group of guards or a friend zerg etc.

I think Streak should do around 4500 damage in your case and it would be balanced IMO. I still wouldn't use it but I wouldn't consider it to be as inferior.

You know what's hilarious? The #1 dmg skill for DKs (whip) is only going to hit for 3-4k (maybe 4.5k if geared for damage) -- at 8m range, single target and no CC. Sure, I can get an burning embers to hit for 8k... over 10 seconds. Wait! How about fiery breath! 6k! Over 10 seconds!

EDIT: I think i do more damage with reflective scales than with my own abilities. Really. People will crushing shock or snipe their way to their own demise. Or I will insta-die b/c of a lag spike and 3x snipe hitting at the same time.

Do you even know how much damage Crushing Shock is doing? And that is a weapon ability, you need a destro staff to sue it. Also, don't forget Molten Armaments. Every DK who tries to deal high damage should use that.

Well aware of CS damage. It scales much better than whip, interrupts, gives you 3chances to crit, cost the same, and has 3x the range. I was just trying to compare class skills and the complaint about 3k damage.

You were trying to compare class skills you can hardly compare - Sorcs has no instant damage low cost damaging ability.

Mate, I think you missed some context. EZareths coment was that 3k DMG on a sorc utility skill was nothing. I was simply making the observation that DKs number one damage skill hits for about the same, ergo that DK melee magicka is pretty lackluster in terms of raw damage output. That sorcs have no instant cast damage skill was not part of the discussion.

Well I'd like to see some numbers on that because when I come up on a Magicka DK built right his Flame whip is doing a hell of a lot more than 3K a hit on me but I will admit that it is much weaker in 1.6 than 1.5 for sure.

Also keep in mind 3K streak damage is on a magicka/spell power stacking Sorc (I can't give you exact numbers since I dont have it but I'm sure the base damage is far far lower than 3K).

I can do it tonight and post screenshots. The root of the problem is thus: whip hits against spell resist now. As you have noticed and commented in other threads, Nirn makes it so every glass cannon build can achieve >20k spell resist w/o even trying. If you sorta try: I put two pieces of nirn on a Heavy set, +DK spell resist bonus, +Breton bonus, +Armor buff = 45k spell resist. Prior to 1.6, whip hit against armor. And everyone ran light armor. Finally, LOL if your enemy is running Harness Magicka -- he is untouchable to whip.

My Flame Whip tooltip is ~4.3k w/ ~26k mana and 1300 spell power. Yes, thats low. But speccing for a glassier build will get you insta-gibbed in melee range.

I agree with everything you've said here.

Magicka damage is in a pretty weak spot right now, especially for a DK. I'd love to see how one of the top DKs would handle trying to make a Magicka DK work right now. The only one I've seen do well so far is Benom, and I'm not sure he's running a magicka build but he does spam flame whip.

jelliedsoup

Lol sorcs want more damage from it

It's not enough to stun and escape.

Ezareth

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Lol sorcs want more damage from it

It's not enough to stun and escape.