Shieldspam online

coolermh

A light armor sorc should be 2 shotable by a dps.... thats the deal with wearing light armor...what do you think you should be as tough as a med or heavy armor wearer?

Ezareth

coolermh wrote: »

A light armor sorc should be 2 shotable by a dps.... thats the deal with wearing light armor...what do you think you should be as tough as a med or heavy armor wearer?

There is a large difference between the design philosophy involved behind balancing *active* defenses versus *passive* defenses and I think you're just not understanding something here.

Sure I'd be fine with a light armor wearer being 2-shot by a DPS class if he were standing there with no shields up and not defending himself. The belief that just because a player is wearing light armor he should somehow play "***" to whoever decides they want a piece is laughable.

If a player dedicates himself to be a magicka user his *passive* defenses are weak. The tradeoff is that he has many *active* defenses at his disposal to compensate for that weakness, chief among them are Damage shields. Additionally there is for a sorc user the ability to Bolt Escape, and to a lesser degree block and roll dodge.

As it stands right now the benefits given to Heavy armor and Medium armor wearers far outweigh the benefits given to those wearing light armor. This idea from people (usually Night Blades) that Light Armor benefits are so amazing that we should somehow be penalized for using it is absurd.

Snit

coolermh wrote: »

Sheilds should absolutely be critable. They should also have a 10-15 second cool down or something.

If your technique for fighting heavily shielded players boils down to "do lots of damage," you'll need to outgear them, get lucky or catch them unaware. You need to find a way to prevent them from recasting a shield for at least a few seconds. It's not that complicated, but it is a level deeper than just "keep banging wrecking blow/ lethal arrow."

cozmon3c_ESO

so im reading no one in light armor should survive, lol. yous guys. what do you want us to do if we dont put up sheilds, i litterally die in 1 to 2 hits myself with out sheilds. i have to stack full magicka and spell damage to even compete in doing damage of a a hybrid stam/health build. and im way behind the damage of a full stam/weapon damage build. just yesterday i got hit by an 18k lethal arrow and the dude wasnt even in stealth (will be in next pvp vid). im pretty sure that was through my hardened ward too, but i will have to go back and look.

Snit

coolermh wrote: »

A light armor sorc should be 2 shotable by a dps.... thats the deal with wearing light armor...what do you think you should be as tough as a med or heavy armor wearer?

So, I assume you're cool with the idea of LA wearers doing twice the damage as your medium 2H build? Shouldn't that also be "the deal?"

Ezareth covered it above. LA wearers have almost no passive mitigation. If you catch them on horseback, or unaware, you should be able to explode them. LA wearers do have access to some decent active defenses, though. Figure out a way to prevent them from re-activating those, and you'll do a lot better in Cyrodiil.

cozmon3c_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Shields should be changed..either they shouldn't stack...or they need to be crittable.

dude why are you so sour about everything sorcs can do, just make a sorc and see for yourself. your dk or templar or what ever you are has better survivability when being beat on. you are in every forum against what sorcs can do and no one really agrees with you on anything you say. just learn to beat sorcs and stop whining about it.

you think sorcs had it easy in 1.5 against dk's, it took a little bit to figure out how to get around that Reflective scale spam, but after i did that i could win most of the time against near unkillable dk's. now what ever class you are is having trouble because, if your a dk, you have been brought into balance and your not used to being on par with all the other classes. sorcs had it rough in 1.5 in a way where damage was not that high, now we can get our damage pretty high at the cost of survivability and you complain about every way we survive, streak and shields. do you want us to just roll over and die for you or something?

ScruffyWhiskers

Snit wrote: »

Ezareth covered it above. LA wearers have almost no passive mitigation. If you catch them on horseback, or unaware, you should be able to explode them. LA wearers do have access to some decent active defenses, though. Figure out a way to prevent them from re-activating those, and you'll do a lot better in Cyrodiil.

That used to be the case for me and it seemed fair. Ambush, concealed weapon/soul harvest, etc. and even then the good players break cc and just need to push hardened ward or healing ward and it's pretty much all over at least for me. I have to run or die.

I'm not buying this whole you need to do something else besides break down their shields routine. If you fear them they break cc and bolt away. If you cripple them they just throw up another shield and bolt away. If you are going to have the best skill in the game to determine when and where you fight then you should be a little more squishy. I wear light armor as well. It's not as nice as the medium that I was wearing but it's not exactly paper thin either. If you are getting hit you are doing it wrong. Or in my case if you are not stealthed or invis then you are doing it wrong.

Hits should definitely crit against shields. Does spell penetration work against them? Probably not.

coolermh

I would be fine with light armor sorcs doing more dmg than a med dps... because they actually do lol! Meteor does insane dps. Im not saying that they shouldn't have sheilds but if you can stay perma alive by just standing there and pressing imovable and sheild. Then on top of that if you start to feel like you might lose control of the situation .... bolt bolt bolt... In my opinion its OP. I guess we will see what happens though once everyone gets tired of chasing bolt escaping sheild stacking sorcs

Ezareth

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm not buying this whole you need to do something else besides break down their shields routine. If you fear them they break cc and bolt away. If you cripple them they just throw up another shield and bolt away. If you are going to have the best skill in the game to determine when and where you fight then you should be a little more squishy. I wear light armor as well. It's not as nice as the medium that I was wearing but it's not exactly paper thin either. If you are getting hit you are doing it wrong. Or in my case if you are not stealthed or invis then you are doing it wrong.

Hits should definitely crit against shields. Does spell penetration work against them? Probably not.

Shields receive no defenses from your armor or spell resistance, they are hit for 100% of damage every time.

You can block through a shield but it doesn't reduce the damage done to your shield but it *does* drain your stamina.

Shields can't be crit.

I'm a pure magicka, 35 point into Bastion (Shield champion point) build right now and my Hardened ward absorbs 10K. Under that I have 14K life. If you can't burst me for 24K then you'll have to run me out of stamina. It's not that hard people.

You seem to want to be able to kill a sorc the way *you* want to kill him instead of creating a build designed to do just that. When I fight a DK I can't spam overload and crystal fragments at them like I would a templar for example. I recognize that I have to run the DK out of magicka to be able to kill him. Every class has a strategy to defeat them and no it is never a guaranteed thing as skill, skills slotted, and your gearing/build have much to do with how successful you'll be.

coolermh wrote: »

I would be fine with light armor sorcs doing more dmg than a med dps... because they actually do lol! Meteor does insane dps. Im not saying that they shouldn't have sheilds but if you can stay perma alive by just standing there and pressing imovable and sheild. Then on top of that if you start to feel like you might lose control of the situation .... bolt bolt bolt... In my opinion its OP. I guess we will see what happens though once everyone gets tired of chasing bolt escaping sheild stacking sorcs

Light armor sorcs don't do more damage than a medium armor bow NB.

No good sorc that I see is running immovable right now(maybe some are in certain group situations still) spamming shields don't help you when you're stunned or feared. Maybe you should try using the most OP CC ability in the game right now....which happens to be one of your class abilities?

coolermh

Yay fear is so good! except you will rarely ever get close enough to sorc who is harassing a group in pvp to use fear. Cause soon as someone starts going at them bolt bolt bolt.


Defend all you want... there is a reason there are so many complaints on the forums about sorcs

Snit

coolermh wrote: »

Defend all you want... there is a reason there are so many complaints on the forums about sorcs

... From players who expect cloth wearers to be easy kills, or "two-shot by a DPS," in your own words.

That expectation is ridiculous.

coolermh

So your saying cloth wearers should be hard kills... oh wait the... the cloth wears are still the hardest to kill class in the game... why do you think people get pissed when they get the kill enemy sorc quest.

Sheild spam bolt sheild spam bolt sheild spam bolt... impossible to kill... game over


I just hoped this gets fixed soon.

Ezareth

coolermh wrote: »

Yay fear is so good! except you will rarely ever get close enough to sorc who is harassing a group in pvp to use fear. Cause soon as someone starts going at them bolt bolt bolt.


Defend all you want... there is a reason there are so many complaints on the forums about sorcs

Yet none of them that I see are good players so what does that tell you?

cozmon3c_ESO

light armor wearers and medium armor wearers should be equally hard to kill if you spec properly and ive seen this is the case. im getting away because i timed things better then you. you can easily keep up with charges (happens almost every fight) and if you cant then you need to slot it in your build or get better.

ScruffyWhiskers

Ezareth wrote: »

Shields receive no defenses from your armor or spell resistance, they are hit for 100% of damage every time.

You can block through a shield but it doesn't reduce the damage done to your shield but it *does* drain your stamina.

Something must be wrong with my combat log statistics then. It always shows much lower hits against Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka than my normal roll over damage for Concealed Weapon. Significantly lower.

Also what happens if the sorc hits the Hardened Ward button while the shield is at 1/4 strength? They just get another full strength shield? That's not a battle I'm going to win with a 3 or 4 to 1 magicka exchange.

I've tied a bunch of different ways to beat sorcs. The combo of shields and bolt makes them impossible (for me at least) to take without having 2 or 3 other players around if the sorc is half way competent. If I am lucky, I catch a bolting sorc streaking back away from the fight with low health, low magicka and then I can get them. It's a lot harder now with all the nerfs to stealth burst damage and the loss of ambush.

coolermh

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

light armor wearers and medium armor wearers should be equally hard to kill if you spec properly and ive seen this is the case. im getting away because i timed things better then you. you can easily keep up with charges (happens almost every fight) and if you cant then you need to slot it in your build or get better.

Cloth is fine... damage shield could be fine on its own if it was critable... bolt escape would be fine on its own...the problem is when you have to get through 2 shields only to have them bolt away is stupid...

Ezareth

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Shields receive no defenses from your armor or spell resistance, they are hit for 100% of damage every time.

You can block through a shield but it doesn't reduce the damage done to your shield but it *does* drain your stamina.

Something must be wrong with my combat log statistics then. It always shows much lower hits against Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka than my normal roll over damage for Concealed Weapon. Significantly lower.

Also what happens if the sorc hits the Hardened Ward button while the shield is at 1/4 strength? They just get another full strength shield? That's not a battle I'm going to win with a 3 or 4 to 1 magicka exchange.

I've tied a bunch of different ways to beat sorcs. The combo of shields and bolt makes them impossible (for me at least) to take without having 2 or 3 other players around if the sorc is half way competent. If I am lucky, I catch a bolting sorc streaking back away from the fight with low health, low magicka and then I can get them. It's a lot harder now with all the nerfs to stealth burst damage and the loss of ambush.

Your combat log statistics can't possibly report damage to hardened ward and harness magicka as the API doesn't even register an event when a shield is hit. The only way you can tell how much your shield was hit is by registering an event for your shield value being changed which is something you can only do for *your* shields.

What you're seeing is the damage left over *after* hardened ward is pierced.

Hardened ward is refreshed to 100% every time it is recast. If you're fighting a magicka to magicka battle against a sorc as a hybrid stamina/magicka build, you're more than likely going to lose.

I can't really give you advice on beating a shield stacking sorc as a NB as I know very little about the nightblade abilities. What I do know is you need to use a gap closer/fear combo to be able to drain our stamina as you're never going to see us run out of magicka from casting Hardened ward. I can literally animation cancel cast hardened ward infinitely right now and never run out of magicka with the way my build is designed (most sorcs can't do this though).

Teargrants

And once again, another person who just doesn't seem to get the counters and trade offs to light armor/shields/sorcs. I would reply with a certain meme, but I've been warned that using it to express the inaineity of these posts is supposedly 'baiting'.

coolermh wrote: »

Yay fear is so good! except you will rarely ever get close enough to sorc who is harassing a group in pvp to use fear. Cause soon as someone starts going at them bolt bolt bolt.


Defend all you want... there is a reason there are so many complaints on the forums about sorcs

You are a NB. You. Have. Stealth.

As a NB you also have Ambush, if you can't figure out how to combine those abilities to keep on a sorc and keep Fear on him, I have to say that your problem is with how you play your class, not how sorcs work. The very fact that you dismiss Fear as bad says a lot about how far we should listen to your opinions.

k2blader

Scruffy, did you check out that thread where someone was asking how to deal with (kill) sorcs? There's probably tips there from people who play your class (not sure what it is) that could assist. The sorcs I've seen addressing your comments on all these "sorcs OP" threads are among *the* best sorcs in the game also, take advantage and learn from what they're sharing. I mean, I don't like things like DK flaps, templar survivability, NBs who know how to play, massive lethal arrow and physical damage, but that's what the game is. The challenge is to find how to deal with them against another equally intelligent human being. There isn't going to be a 1 or 2 button solution against your typical PvP sorc unless you outnumber, outlevel, or outgear him.

coolermh

Teargrants wrote: »

And once again, another person who just doesn't seem to get the counters and trade offs to light armor/shields/sorcs. I would reply with a certain meme, but I've been warned that using it to express the inaineity of these posts is supposedly 'baiting'.

coolermh wrote: »

Yay fear is so good! except you will rarely ever get close enough to sorc who is harassing a group in pvp to use fear. Cause soon as someone starts going at them bolt bolt bolt.


Defend all you want... there is a reason there are so many complaints on the forums about sorcs

You are a NB. You. Have. Stealth.

As a NB you also have Ambush, if you can't figure out how to combine those abilities to keep on a sorc and keep Fear on him, I have to say that your problem is with how you play your class, not how sorcs work. The very fact that you dismiss Fear as bad says a lot about how far we should listen to your opinions.

I never said it was bad. I said it was difficult to land on a sorc. I will try it tonight however I dont think it is as easy as you claim.

Ezareth

coolermh wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

And once again, another person who just doesn't seem to get the counters and trade offs to light armor/shields/sorcs. I would reply with a certain meme, but I've been warned that using it to express the inaineity of these posts is supposedly 'baiting'.

coolermh wrote: »

Yay fear is so good! except you will rarely ever get close enough to sorc who is harassing a group in pvp to use fear. Cause soon as someone starts going at them bolt bolt bolt.


Defend all you want... there is a reason there are so many complaints on the forums about sorcs

You are a NB. You. Have. Stealth.

As a NB you also have Ambush, if you can't figure out how to combine those abilities to keep on a sorc and keep Fear on him, I have to say that your problem is with how you play your class, not how sorcs work. The very fact that you dismiss Fear as bad says a lot about how far we should listen to your opinions.

I never said it was bad. I said it was difficult to land on a sorc. I will try it tonight however I dont think it is as easy as you claim.

Don't use the fear on the first ambush. Let the first bolt escape away from you give you free immunity and *then* use an ambush (or other gap closer) /fear combo.

Many times I see nightblades try to fear bomb me on the first shot and I bolt and stun then before they can hit the fear and I'm gone before it lands after they break free.

coolermh

I feel like I am usually out of range of ambush after 1 bolt

Ezareth

coolermh wrote: »

I feel like I am usually out of range of ambush after 1 bolt

Ambush = 22 meters, Bolt Escape is only 15.

coolermh

Aight well we will see how it goes tonight. Thanks for the advice

Wreuntzylla

Ezareth wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

And once again, another person who just doesn't seem to get the counters and trade offs to light armor/shields/sorcs. I would reply with a certain meme, but I've been warned that using it to express the inaineity of these posts is supposedly 'baiting'.

coolermh wrote: »

Yay fear is so good! except you will rarely ever get close enough to sorc who is harassing a group in pvp to use fear. Cause soon as someone starts going at them bolt bolt bolt.


Defend all you want... there is a reason there are so many complaints on the forums about sorcs

You are a NB. You. Have. Stealth.

As a NB you also have Ambush, if you can't figure out how to combine those abilities to keep on a sorc and keep Fear on him, I have to say that your problem is with how you play your class, not how sorcs work. The very fact that you dismiss Fear as bad says a lot about how far we should listen to your opinions.

I never said it was bad. I said it was difficult to land on a sorc. I will try it tonight however I dont think it is as easy as you claim.

Don't use the fear on the first ambush. Let the first bolt escape away from you give you free immunity and *then* use an ambush (or other gap closer) /fear combo.

Many times I see nightblades try to fear bomb me on the first shot and I bolt and stun then before they can hit the fear and I'm gone before it lands after they break free.

This. Although, against most sorcs, go ahead and fear off the first ambush.

Another thought. Don't use ambush. Use stampede, especially if you love teh wreking blow. It messes with people like me who like to go through it.

Lava_Croft

The fact that these Stamina Nightblades stole my Ambush one thing, but the fact that they don't even understand how incredibly powerful it is against Sorcerers using BE/Streak is just blasphemy.

Just give it back, I know how to use it.

TheBucket

Flying blade, Crit Rush, destroys Sorcs.

Cody

Do I need to say those four words no one wants to hear/see? OK ill say them....


























WORLD OF WARCRAFT ROCKS


'yall thought I was gonna say something else didn't y'all? hehehe....

Bashev

Does DoT skills works now on a damage shield? Can harness magicka absorbs DK stamina DoTs?

Tankqull

Bashev wrote: »

Does DoT skills works now on a damage shield? Can harness magicka absorbs DK stamina DoTs?

yes - think so but not 100% sure cant differ the animition of the stam and magica versions.