Shieldspam online

Deverger

Why is there no effective counter to shield abilities? Most of my recent PvP experiences have been with people who spams shields non-stop to take little to no actually damage, yet still somehow putting out enough damage to kill people.

Teargrants

Why is there no way for us to be effective/stay alive without spamming shields as a non stam build?

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

Why is there no way for us to be effective/stay alive without spamming shields as a non stam build?

There is, its called Heavy Armor, and you can actually run it and be tanky with Magicka

Problem is....Heavy Armor is woeful in comparison to Shields..which trump everything in the game.

k2blader

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Why is there no way for us to be effective/stay alive without spamming shields as a non stam build?

There is, its called Heavy Armor, and you can actually run it and be tanky with Magicka

Problem is....Heavy Armor is woeful in comparison to Shields..which trump everything in the game.

Can you explain how a magicka sorc would run full heavy armor and be "tanky"? Do you mean he'd kinda just stand there, take some hits, then die?

Xsorus

k2blader wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Why is there no way for us to be effective/stay alive without spamming shields as a non stam build?

There is, its called Heavy Armor, and you can actually run it and be tanky with Magicka

Problem is....Heavy Armor is woeful in comparison to Shields..which trump everything in the game.

Can you explain how a magicka sorc would run full heavy armor and be "tanky"? Do you mean he'd kinda just stand there, take some hits, then die?

The same way a Stamina Sorc in full heavy would be tanky. Only they don't get the benefit from a free 10k Shield they can cast every second.

Panda244

Better than lulsnipespam online....

Teargrants

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Why is there no way for us to be effective/stay alive without spamming shields as a non stam build?

There is, its called Heavy Armor, and you can actually run it and be tanky with Magicka

Problem is....Heavy Armor is woeful in comparison to Shields..which trump everything in the game.

Can you explain how a magicka sorc would run full heavy armor and be "tanky"? Do you mean he'd kinda just stand there, take some hits, then die?

The same way a Stamina Sorc in full heavy would be tanky. Only they don't get the benefit from a free 10k Shield they can cast every second.

Lol wut. So my magicka sorc will be able to block, dodge, CC break just as well as a stam sorc if I just put on HA?

I'm sorry, I've run HA sorc both 1.5 and in 1.6. The stam cost increases hurt HA sorc in 1.6 if your going magicka. In 1.5 I could get by w/ sword & shield and rapid regen, only needing minimal warding. Can't do that in 1.6, still need to stack shields constantly in HA as a mag build.

Roechacca

Panda244 wrote: »

Better than lulsnipespam online....

I'm keeping that real still

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Why is there no way for us to be effective/stay alive without spamming shields as a non stam build?

There is, its called Heavy Armor, and you can actually run it and be tanky with Magicka

Problem is....Heavy Armor is woeful in comparison to Shields..which trump everything in the game.

Can you explain how a magicka sorc would run full heavy armor and be "tanky"? Do you mean he'd kinda just stand there, take some hits, then die?

The same way a Stamina Sorc in full heavy would be tanky. Only they don't get the benefit from a free 10k Shield they can cast every second.

Lol wut. So my magicka sorc will be able to block, dodge, CC break just as well as a stam sorc if I just put on HA?

I'm sorry, I've run HA sorc both 1.5 and in 1.6. The stam cost increases hurt HA sorc in 1.6 if your going magicka. In 1.5 I could get by w/ sword & shield and rapid regen, only needing minimal warding. Can't do that in 1.6, still need to stack shields constantly in HA as a mag build.

No one wears heavy to Block/Dodge better..Both of those instantly drain your stamina no matter what your setup...like seriously slap on Heavy armor right now and load yourself down in Block Cost reduction, then run out in PvP..Block more then 1 person and watch your stamina instantly drained. a Heavy Armor Magicka Sorc will simply be better alone because he can use his Shields more often.... Even with Mitigation not working on Shields....That's how powerful they are.

Teargrants

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Why is there no way for us to be effective/stay alive without spamming shields as a non stam build?

There is, its called Heavy Armor, and you can actually run it and be tanky with Magicka

Problem is....Heavy Armor is woeful in comparison to Shields..which trump everything in the game.

Can you explain how a magicka sorc would run full heavy armor and be "tanky"? Do you mean he'd kinda just stand there, take some hits, then die?

The same way a Stamina Sorc in full heavy would be tanky. Only they don't get the benefit from a free 10k Shield they can cast every second.

Lol wut. So my magicka sorc will be able to block, dodge, CC break just as well as a stam sorc if I just put on HA?

I'm sorry, I've run HA sorc both 1.5 and in 1.6. The stam cost increases hurt HA sorc in 1.6 if your going magicka. In 1.5 I could get by w/ sword & shield and rapid regen, only needing minimal warding. Can't do that in 1.6, still need to stack shields constantly in HA as a mag build.

No one wears heavy to Block/Dodge better..Both of those instantly drain your stamina no matter what your setup...like seriously slap on Heavy armor right now and load yourself down in Block Cost reduction, then run out in PvP..Block more then 1 person and watch your stamina instantly drained. a Heavy Armor Magicka Sorc will simply be better alone because he can use his Shields more often.... Even with Mitigation not working on Shields....That's how powerful they are.

You're missing that stam builds actually synergize to a degree w/ HA in that they have the stam sustain to actually block and make use of the HA block cost reduction & CC break from immovable. Magicka builds on the other hand have to rely on shields regardless of what armor type they wear. Wearing HA for a mag build sorc is just gimping yourself by limiting the sustain of your shields + blink. The only real improvement HA offers a mag build is survivability against pew pew archers since blink doesn't get you out of their range for a while.

As for HA being better for solo sorc, that's completely wrong, I can attest to it from my own experience. Solo sorc needs to kite, HA will strain your mag sustain to the limits and forces you to ration your dps (weaving lots of heavy staff atks to keep mag up), it's fun in 1v1 but against multiple enemies you're better off in full LA so you can kite freely and string them out. HA was working much better for me in grp v grp/large fights compared to solo.

Vanzen

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Why is there no way for us to be effective/stay alive without spamming shields as a non stam build?

There is, its called Heavy Armor, and you can actually run it and be tanky with Magicka

Problem is....Heavy Armor is woeful in comparison to Shields..which trump everything in the game.

Can you explain how a magicka sorc would run full heavy armor and be "tanky"? Do you mean he'd kinda just stand there, take some hits, then die?

The same way a Stamina Sorc in full heavy would be tanky. Only they don't get the benefit from a free 10k Shield they can cast every second.

Lol wut. So my magicka sorc will be able to block, dodge, CC break just as well as a stam sorc if I just put on HA?

I'm sorry, I've run HA sorc both 1.5 and in 1.6. The stam cost increases hurt HA sorc in 1.6 if your going magicka. In 1.5 I could get by w/ sword & shield and rapid regen, only needing minimal warding. Can't do that in 1.6, still need to stack shields constantly in HA as a mag build.

No one wears heavy to Block/Dodge better..Both of those instantly drain your stamina no matter what your setup...like seriously slap on Heavy armor right now and load yourself down in Block Cost reduction, then run out in PvP..Block more then 1 person and watch your stamina instantly drained. a Heavy Armor Magicka Sorc will simply be better alone because he can use his Shields more often.... Even with Mitigation not working on Shields....That's how powerful they are.

You're missing that stam builds actually synergize to a degree w/ HA in that they have the stam sustain to actually block and make use of the HA block cost reduction & CC break from immovable. Magicka builds on the other hand have to rely on shields regardless of what armor type they wear. Wearing HA for a mag build sorc is just gimping yourself by limiting the sustain of your shields + blink. The only real improvement HA offers a mag build is survivability against pew pew archers since blink doesn't get you out of their range for a while.

As for HA being better for solo sorc, that's completely wrong, I can attest to it from my own experience. Solo sorc needs to kite, HA will strain your mag sustain to the limits and forces you to ration your dps (weaving lots of heavy staff atks to keep mag up), it's fun in 1v1 but against multiple enemies you're better off in full LA so you can kite freely and string them out. HA was working much better for me in grp v grp/large fights compared to solo.

You absolutely cant run a blocking build with a stam build as you will be let with absolutely no stam to use abilities. Blocking build only work with magicka, stam dedicated to blocking. And yes I wear heavy to block and it works vs 2 persons but no more. But 2 is already quite good. And Vs one, you will be impossible to kil. Talking from a DK point of view though.

Suntzu1414

i miss the days... when we used to complain about forward camps.


Kill Well
ST

DeLindsay

Vanzen wrote: »

You absolutely cant run a blocking build with a stam build as you will be let with absolutely no stam to use abilities. Blocking build only work with magicka, stam dedicated to blocking. And yes I wear heavy to block and it works vs 2 persons but no more. But 2 is already quite good. And Vs one, you will be impossible to kil. Talking from a DK point of view though.

As a NB I also run 5pc HA (Construct) and I can tell you pairing that with 5pc Warlock Magicka isn't an issue for the most part, nor is Stamina. I also take far less damage from Players than most do which works for me. I can eat 2 jesus beams at the same time and not die, 3 can get dodgy but I've done it as long as I can Shield spam through it (not disoriented by another Player).

People need to understand you simply cannot wear your 1.5.8 gear in 1.6 and expect nothing to have changed, unless you were already a niche build like lulsnipespam hehe.

civilizedsavage

I wonder what the dream team devs run, since there's no balance issues or lag or any of the other imaginary gripes we seem to annoy them with...maybe we can get some pro tips.

Soulac

civilizedsavage wrote: »

I wonder what the dream team devs run, since there's no balance issues or lag or any of the other imaginary gripes we seem to annoy them with...maybe we can get some pro tips.

I don't think they actually play, lol.

trimsic_ESO

Shield spam online is also bleed immunity online. People with a stamina build based on bleeding effects and with a set that procs off dots will have their build nullified by the bleed immunity of the damage shields.

Tankqull

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Shield spam online is also bleed immunity online. People with a stamina build based on bleeding effects and with a set that procs off dots will have their build nullified by the bleed immunity of the damage shields.

yeah and every magic range dmg dealer has its entire dmg nearly nullified by perma blocking stamuser...
http://i.imgur.com/ifoh7t9.png
reducing the dmg dealt below values beeing covered by mutagen/rapid regen

Rylana

I swear we just cant do anything in this game without someone complaining about it

Soarin'

People will always go for meta builds generally because they are the best "general" option available. There is room to play outside the box, but the fact is that someone with better knowledge of the game has probably already tried it and if it was worth using they would have drawn attention to it through social media.

Shields are far more powerful than heals as buffer >> regen, with the ability to kite in and out you can pot up and sustain. Bolt escape is really good for reducing incoming DPS and drawing out a fight, you can run with it, you can break LOS by moving behind a player with it. Sure it costs allot if you spam it, but you should not need to do so. Add in some knock downs and the shield buffer and you sit pretty happy, no worry about bleed/dots either anymore should the shield drop momentarily.

It is a shame there is not a dependable self heal for the sorc class abilities. I am sure the time will come when someone comes up with something useful. Pity this game doesn't have the option of dispelling enchantments like shields tbh.

Joy_Division

More complaints about shields? I'm surprised Duke hasn't popped into this thread yet.

Stamina users got a (good) heal, the ridiculously powerful wrecking blow skill, way better spell resistance and are still complaining about stuff magicka users can do. In case you haven't noticed in your keen observations in Cyodiil, anyone wearing a dress has a life expectancy of about half a second under enemy fire. If we are spamming shields, it is not to annoy you, it is because we are desperately trying to stay alive and we aren't attacking you.

Xsorus

Joy_Division wrote: »

More complaints about shields? I'm surprised Duke hasn't popped into this thread yet.

Stamina users got a (good) heal, the ridiculously powerful wrecking blow skill, way better spell resistance and are still complaining about stuff magicka users can do. In case you haven't noticed in your keen observations in Cyodiil, anyone wearing a dress has a life expectancy of about half a second under enemy fire. If we are spamming shields, it is not to annoy you, it is because we are desperately trying to stay alive and we aren't attacking you.

Magicka Users have a better heal that's not tacked by 6.6 million AP points, You have equally powerful attacks compared to Wrecking Blow that aren't Melee Range, Spell Resistance is pointless cause of Nirnhoned so yea..

You think you have low life expectancy..try playing that Medium armor user right now in PvP with Wrecking Blow...You don't know the meaning of low life expectancy... a Light Armor user with Shield Stacking is a 100x more survivable then a Medium Armor user right now.

Snit

You can't just sit there and spam one ability, then complain if your target spams one ability and nothing really changes for either of you.

If you run into someone with beefy shields, the odds are excellent that they have the minimum possible stamina. There is stuff you can do with that fact. Just continuing spam of your favorite attack ability won't work (unless that ability is wrecking blow, and possibly lethal arrow if your gear is that good).

Snit

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Magicka Users have a better heal that's not tacked by 6.6 million AP points

I truly don't know how to evaluate Vigor. It's very powerful, and it will be ridiculous once you can organize groups where everyone has it.

But it's also gated behind an AP grind that 90% of the player base will never pass through. Maybe 95%. I don't know how to put those facts together and decide whether it's comparable to the best magicka heals, greater or lesser

DeLindsay

Snit wrote: »

But it's also gated behind an AP grind that 90% of the player base will never pass through. Maybe 95%. I don't know how to put those facts together and decide whether it's comparable to the best magicka heals, greater or lesser

The really sad part is ZoS actually thinks that putting Vigor behind such a horrible grind will bring more Players into Cyrodiil. It will likely have the exact opposite effect and drive Players from the game entirely due to unreasonable grinds which ZoS will later use to justify huge (like 200% huge) XP/AP potions in the Crown Store, further alienating it's Player base. ESO compound RNG drop system is bad enough of a grind, but abilities should NEVER be behind half year to year+ long grinds.

Lord_Bidr

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

You think you have low life expectancy..try playing that Medium armor user right now in PvP with Wrecking Blow...You don't know the meaning of low life expectancy... a Light Armor user with Shield Stacking is a 100x more survivable then a Medium Armor user right now.

Is this the reason why everybody is stacking light armor in 1.6? Cause from what I can see in pvp, most people aren't even rolling full light right now. In fact, they're actually advising against it (they say only go light if you're blink-blink sorc).

Soarin'

Joy_Division wrote: »

More complaints about shields? I'm surprised Duke hasn't popped into this thread yet.

Stamina users got a (good) heal, the ridiculously powerful wrecking blow skill, way better spell resistance and are still complaining about stuff magicka users can do. In case you haven't noticed in your keen observations in Cyodiil, anyone wearing a dress has a life expectancy of about half a second under enemy fire. If we are spamming shields, it is not to annoy you, it is because we are desperately trying to stay alive and we aren't attacking you.

I think you fail to credit 2H users for how difficult it is to land wrecking blow on a moving target. For a melee skill that requires you to be facing the target for a whole second... with no collision detection. With lag factored in it's a horrible skill to line up against anyone who is not stunned, I have seen the skill cancel as many as 4 times in a fight because the target simply walked through me as I was using it. Ideally the skill should have some sort of tracking/lock-on applied as the user activates the skill.

Ranged attacks/insta-cast are far easier to hit with

Wrecking blow is a bit of a gamble when you intend on using its effects to win a fight.

DisgracefulMind

We use our shields because we have to. To use my build to its full potential I need 7/7 LA. It's really not hard for stam users to get through the shields. Drain us of stam, and then wrecking blow us. Guarantee your attacks will slice through us pretty fast.

LegacyDM

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

We use our shields because we have to. To use my build to its full potential I need 7/7 LA. It's really not hard for stam users to get through the shields. Drain us of stam, and then wrecking blow us. Guarantee your attacks will slice through us pretty fast.

How do I drain your Stam? My shades hit like a wet noodle and I've seen DKs endlessly tank with multiple people wailing on them appearing to have endless pools of stamina. If I fear it gives cc immunity and enough time for the opponent to heal or regain stam. It's a vicious endless cycle.

DisgracefulMind

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

We use our shields because we have to. To use my build to its full potential I need 7/7 LA. It's really not hard for stam users to get through the shields. Drain us of stam, and then wrecking blow us. Guarantee your attacks will slice through us pretty fast.

How do I drain your Stam? My shades hit like a wet noodle and I've seen DKs endlessly tank with multiple people wailing on them appearing to have endless pools of stamina. If I fear it gives cc immunity and enough time for the opponent to heal or regain stam. It's a vicious endless cycle.

It doesn't give enough time to regen full stamina. You need to CC again literally right after our CC immunity goes away. Keep doing this.

Snit

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

How do I drain your Stam? My shades hit like a wet noodle and I've seen DKs endlessly tank with multiple people wailing on them appearing to have endless pools of stamina...

I suppose it depends on what class you're fighting, but this does not apply to sorcs. A sorc with big shields will necessarily have a tiny stamina pool and unimpressive hit points. Two break frees and we're done, and none of us build for stamina regen. That is the weakness for shield-spamming sorcs.

Kypho

Another complain from the most powerfull class in pvp, the Sorcerer? Great!!!!!!