Why Was Templar CC Nerfed And Not Talons?

Rook_Master

Apparently, enough people cried about being 'stunlocked' by Templars, and how it was sooo OP, that now Jabs and Blazing Spear both automatically apply CC immunity when stunning the enemy.

That's right, Jabs, a channelled melee skill with a single-target knockback at the end, had its CC nerfed. I guess it was just too much to have to dodge, use Immovable, or apply break-free on the knockback, or maybe BLOCK? I mean seriously, who actually thinks this was a problem? Maybe if you just stood there and repeatedly took the four hits to the face you would get 'stunlocked'.

Meanwhile, DKs still have Talons in all its OP glory, untouched since 1.1.2 when the radius was slightly reduced. Let's compare, shall we? Talons can't be dodged, CC immunity through Immovable or Break-Free doesn't protect you, it can't be blocked, and it can be applied over, and over.

Is there any other ability in the game that has all this: AoE, Root, Unblockable, Undodgable, Synergy, DoT/Dmg Debuff

All I'm asking for is some way to counter this ability, please. Right now, the only way is to spam cleanse and spam roll-dodge to get away. That's just absurd.

Can we please open up some DK skills for examination? Flappy-flap is finally getting brought down to a reasonable level. Let's take a look at some other DK skills please.

EDIT: Spelling

Asgari

In talons if you run out of stamina you can still stand there and defend yourself or use purge and remove the talons. However the cc from biting jabs if you have low stamina becomes a perma cc you couldn't break free from and obviously purge so you would go from full health to dead while regenerating stamina and still not be able to cc break.

It didn't happen too often but I am sure those it happened too weren't happy.

Gorthax

Are you serious right now? You are aware that it was a BUG and NOT intentional....see this is what happens when lazy developers let stuff like this go on for too long. People ASSUME it is how it is meant to be then when it gets taken away to be how it is SUPPOSE to be, they get angry lol

Knockback is a cc with a stun. How does it make any sense to hard cc someone permanently? hard cc ='s cc immunity, soft cc does not. All form of knock back applies CC immunity, because they are HARD CC! To have a knockback in the game NOT follow the rules of the other ones makes zero sense and was unintentional. You had to be aware of that right? Or are you seriously gonna push the anger on the people who complained that it didnt fall in line with the other rules?


Your argument is 100% invalid because you are trying to compare hard cc to soft cc. Clearly you do not understand the difference between the two OP. Not trying to sound mean so PLEASE dont read this that way. I am just pointing out the glaring flaw in everything you are complaining about

technohic

The CC from those did need to respect the timer as it could lock things down. What I would do is ask for them to be made roots like talons is. Actually they still wouldn't be as good in that either; as their CC currently is single target even though they are AOE/cone damage.

Sacadon

Didn't Wrobel say biting jabs unbreakable CC was a bug? But no mention of blazing spear.

The BS change is probably the right thing. It was such a great tool for so long and I'm guessing ZOS was intentionally looking the other way on this one till temps got attention in other areas.

As always @Princess_Asgari has great points... My only issue with talons are their spammable nature. So we've a rule, we only spam talons on you if you spam them on us. Yes, we end up spamming them more often than we'd like.

I'd better hurry and finish reading this one: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152677/should-talons-be-nerfed-why-and-why-not/p1

Gorthax

Rook_Master wrote: »

Apparently, enough people cried about being 'stunlocked' by Templars, and how it was sooo OP, that now Jabs and Blazing Spear both automatically apply CC immunity when stunning the enemy.

That's right, Jabs, a channelled melee skill with a single-target knockback at the end, had its CC nerfed. I guess it was just too much to have to dodge, use Immovable, or apply break-free on the knockback, or maybe BLOCK? I mean seriously, who actually thinks this was a problem? Maybe if you just stood there and repeatedly took the four hits to the face you would get 'stunlocked'.



All I'm asking for is some way to counter this ability, please. Right now, the only way is to spam cleanse and spam roll-dodge to get away. That's just absurd.



EDIT: Spelling

Destroyed by your own complaining. You really did that didnt you lol told people to dodge your move, but then say it is absurd that YOU have to roll dodge OUT of a soft cc lol this community I swear.

Care to comment @Rook_Master would love to hear the response to what I pointed out

EDIT: I made the parts I am referring to in this post BOLD so you can clearly see it lol this is just so damn funny!!!!

@DeLindsay check this out lol

EDIT 2: Dodge rolling after taloned or ANY form of soft cc is the break free FOR soft cc. It really isnt that hard to avoid and if a DK is coming towards you and closing the gap, dodge roll. You can not be taloned if you dodge roll when they lift their hand up to cast it.

Rook_Master

Gorthax wrote: »

Are you serious right now? You are aware that it was a BUG and NOT intentional....see this is what happens when lazy developers let stuff like this go on for too long. People ASSUME it is how it is meant to be then when it gets taken away to be how it is SUPPOSE to be, they get angry lol

Knockback is a cc with a stun. How does it make any sense to hard cc someone permanently? hard cc ='s cc immunity, soft cc does not.

Gorthax wrote: »

Are you serious right now? You are aware that it was a BUG and NOT intentional....see this is what happens when lazy developers let stuff like this go on for too long. People ASSUME it is how it is meant to be then when it gets taken away to be how it is SUPPOSE to be, they get angry lol

Knockback is a cc with a stun. How does it make any sense to hard cc someone permanently? hard cc ='s cc immunity, soft cc does not. All form of knock back applies CC immunity, because they are HARD CC! To have a knockback in the game NOT follow the rules of the other ones makes zero sense and was unintentional. You had to be aware of that right? Or are you seriously gonna push the anger on the people who complained that it didnt fall in line with the other rules?


Your argument is 100% invalid because you are trying to compare hard cc to soft cc. Clearly you do not understand the difference between the two OP. Not trying to sound mean so PLEASE dont read this that way. I am just pointing out the glaring flaw in everything you are complaining about

Oh, you must be referring to the secret revamp to the CC system that was implemented way back.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/94527/new-cc-immunity-system/p1

Yes, I guess Jabs didn't conform to these secret new rules that were implemented.

Nowhere is soft or hard CC mentioned in any of the tooltips or official literature. To ignore the reality of what is happening in Cyrodiil regarding Talons because it counts as 'soft CC' is ludicrous.

Is it not a bug then that Talons roots people that are dodging?

Rook_Master

Gorthax wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Apparently, enough people cried about being 'stunlocked' by Templars, and how it was sooo OP, that now Jabs and Blazing Spear both automatically apply CC immunity when stunning the enemy.

That's right, Jabs, a channelled melee skill with a single-target knockback at the end, had its CC nerfed. I guess it was just too much to have to dodge, use Immovable, or apply break-free on the knockback, or maybe BLOCK? I mean seriously, who actually thinks this was a problem? Maybe if you just stood there and repeatedly took the four hits to the face you would get 'stunlocked'.



All I'm asking for is some way to counter this ability, please. Right now, the only way is to spam cleanse and spam roll-dodge to get away. That's just absurd.



EDIT: Spelling

Destroyed by your own complaining. You really did that didnt you lol told people to dodge your move, but then say it is absurd that YOU have to roll dodge OUT of a soft cc lol this community I swear.

Care to comment @Rook_Master would love to hear the response to what I pointed out

EDIT: I made the parts I am referring to in this post BOLD so you can clearly see it lol this is just so damn funny!!!!

@DeLindsay check this out lol

You're taking that clause out of context of the rest of the sentence, which goes on to list ALL the ways you can avoid the knockback from Jabs.

"I guess it was just too much to have to dodge[/b], use Immovable, or apply break-free on the knockback, or maybe BLOCK?"

And actually, that point still stands, as Talons still hits through the dodge, by the way.

BEZDNA

Rook_Master wrote: »

All I'm asking for is some way to counter this ability, please. Right now, the only way is to spam cleanse and spam roll-dodge to get away. That's just absurd.

Well it is alredy 2, soods good to me. also add monuver to the list and a simplest way - kiting a DK player. so in total we have 4 ways to conter - that is way too much - so go ahead and use them. Oh wait there is one more - you can just stand in talons and still fight with full power, you can use skills, you can block - you can do whatever to de sucseseful in fight. And we have 5 in total! So just stop whining, dude. Talons are totaly OK

Sacadon

Gorthax wrote: »

Are you serious right now? You are aware that it was a BUG and NOT intentional....see this is what happens when lazy developers let stuff like this go on for too long. People ASSUME it is how it is meant to be then when it gets taken away to be how it is SUPPOSE to be, they get angry lol

Knockback is a cc with a stun. How does it make any sense to hard cc someone permanently? hard cc ='s cc immunity, soft cc does not. All form of knock back applies CC immunity, because they are HARD CC! To have a knockback in the game NOT follow the rules of the other ones makes zero sense and was unintentional. You had to be aware of that right? Or are you seriously gonna push the anger on the people who complained that it didnt fall in line with the other rules?


Your argument is 100% invalid because you are trying to compare hard cc to soft cc. Clearly you do not understand the difference between the two OP. Not trying to sound mean so PLEASE dont read this that way. I am just pointing out the glaring flaw in everything you are complaining about

Yep, although the knockback consistency isn't there because ZOS decided it doesn't apply to wrecking blow, possibly because they'd just get too bored while hanging over the glass dome of Tamriel watching us like ants. Who knows.

Gorthax

Rook_Master wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Are you serious right now? You are aware that it was a BUG and NOT intentional....see this is what happens when lazy developers let stuff like this go on for too long. People ASSUME it is how it is meant to be then when it gets taken away to be how it is SUPPOSE to be, they get angry lol

Knockback is a cc with a stun. How does it make any sense to hard cc someone permanently? hard cc ='s cc immunity, soft cc does not.

Gorthax wrote: »

Are you serious right now? You are aware that it was a BUG and NOT intentional....see this is what happens when lazy developers let stuff like this go on for too long. People ASSUME it is how it is meant to be then when it gets taken away to be how it is SUPPOSE to be, they get angry lol

Knockback is a cc with a stun. How does it make any sense to hard cc someone permanently? hard cc ='s cc immunity, soft cc does not. All form of knock back applies CC immunity, because they are HARD CC! To have a knockback in the game NOT follow the rules of the other ones makes zero sense and was unintentional. You had to be aware of that right? Or are you seriously gonna push the anger on the people who complained that it didnt fall in line with the other rules?


Your argument is 100% invalid because you are trying to compare hard cc to soft cc. Clearly you do not understand the difference between the two OP. Not trying to sound mean so PLEASE dont read this that way. I am just pointing out the glaring flaw in everything you are complaining about

Oh, you must be referring to the secret revamp to the CC system that was implemented way back.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/94527/new-cc-immunity-system/p1

Yes, I guess Jabs didn't conform to these secret new rules that were implemented.

Nowhere is soft or hard CC mentioned in any of the tooltips or official literature. To ignore the reality of what is happening in Cyrodiil regarding Talons because it counts as 'soft CC' is ludicrous.

Is it not a bug then that Talons roots people that are dodging?

soft and hard cc, my good sir, were terms invented by players to explain the difference. hard cc is anything that stops you from using ANY skill while under the effect, which grants cc immunity. Soft CC only impairs movement, i.e. stuck in place, slowed, etc etc but the difference is with SOFT cc you can still defend yourself which means you dont need immunity

Also I did not take that out of contex t, because you said to dodge while being jabbed before the last hit, which is the same as being hit by talons than dodge rolling.

I can, however, say that talons should have an increased cost simply because of how versatile it is. Does damage, has synergy, and roots you. It is the only root in the game that is that good and cost so little. Its only downfall is close range. Yet that is easily remedied by everyones favorite weapon choice, sword and shield

TehMagnus

Maybe because talons got nerfed before, just like 3/4 of DK's abilities.

pppontus

As much as an AOE hard CC is lovely to cast, it sucks to be hit by. Necessary change. Talons is a soft CC that doesn't actually stop you from doing your stuff, like purging or rolling out.

And I PVP only with my Templar and NB.

Rook_Master

TehMagnus wrote: »

Maybe because talons got nerfed before, just like 3/4 of DK's abilities.

Pure coincidence that 8/12 were DKs on your HR Record, I'm sure.

You guys could have done this with 8/12 Templar or Nightblade, right?

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

In talons if you run out of stamina you can still stand there and defend yourself or use purge and remove the talons. However the cc from biting jabs if you have low stamina becomes a perma cc you couldn't break free from and obviously purge so you would go from full health to dead while regenerating stamina and still not be able to cc break.

It didn't happen too often but I am sure those it happened too weren't happy.

that's really an easy fix for the devs to help the Templar

make the jabs line ROOT like talons with no stun and KB.

This would allow the victim to still stand there and defend yourself or use purge and remove the root.

this is the perfect fix that would satiate the Templars and make the jabs line usefull.

IN ref to JABS-- I also think that the other affects of the morphed versoins should heal for the magika base, and stam heal for the stam morph.

just my 2 cents

Sacadon

It just so happens that a while back a certain EP Templars play-style for several months was, focused charge then repeated puncturing strikes. Player was also at the top of my kill list and most in my guild. I'm pretty sure the wh***tyrd has stepped up his game since! but cannot say for sure.

Point being, best focus your energy on playing, as there are very few OP skills that cannot be countered in some way. This makes you a better player anyway. And ZOS will undoubtedly nerf things, even when they shouldn't. Someone needed to say it!

Snit

DK's are the Dovahkiin. The rest of us are just NPC's in his game.


Kidding!


(mostly)

pppontus

Rook_Master wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Maybe because talons got nerfed before, just like 3/4 of DK's abilities.

Pure coincidence that 8/12 were DKs on your HR Record, I'm sure.

You guys could have done this with 8/12 Templar or Nightblade, right?

Jeez, I'm sure they all used burning talons so they could kill the Mantikora faster? How is this contributing to the discussion here?

Xexpo

One does not simply ask for DK nerfs.

Rook_Master

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

In talons if you run out of stamina you can still stand there and defend yourself or use purge and remove the talons. However the cc from biting jabs if you have low stamina becomes a perma cc you couldn't break free from and obviously purge so you would go from full health to dead while regenerating stamina and still not be able to cc break.

It didn't happen too often but I am sure those it happened too weren't happy.

that's really an easy fix for the devs to help the Templar

make the jabs line ROOT like talons with no stun and KB.

This would allow the victim to still stand there and defend yourself or use purge and remove the root.

this is the perfect fix that would satiate the Templars and make the jabs line usefull.

IN ref to JABS-- I also think that the other affects of the morphed versoins should heal for the magika base, and stam heal for the stam morph.

just my 2 cents

Whoa whoa whoa, we can't have Templars rooting a single target at the end of a channelled ability. That would just be super OP.

pppontus wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Maybe because talons got nerfed before, just like 3/4 of DK's abilities.

Pure coincidence that 8/12 were DKs on your HR Record, I'm sure.

You guys could have done this with 8/12 Templar or Nightblade, right?

Jeez, I'm sure they all used burning talons so they could kill the Mantikora faster? How is this contributing to the discussion here?

It exposes the hypocrisy behind Teh_Magnus' claim that 'DKs are fine.', when clearly they are not.

The main thrust of my OP was aimed at PvP, but the fact is that DKs remain overpowered in all facets of the game.


Changing Templar and Sorc abilities, while ignoring DK skills that are much more problematic is the issue here.

pkb16_ESO2

soft and hard cc, my good sir, were terms invented by players to explain the difference. hard cc is anything that stops you from using ANY skill while under the effect, which grants cc immunity. Soft CC only impairs movement, i.e. stuck in place, slowed, etc etc but the difference is with SOFT cc you can still defend yourself which means you dont need immunity

Also I did not take that out of contex t, because you said to dodge while being jabbed before the last hit, which is the same as being hit by talons than dodge rolling.

I can, however, say that talons should have an increased cost simply because of how versatile it is. Does damage, has synergy, and roots you. It is the only root in the game that is that good and cost so little. Its only downfall is close range. Yet that is easily remedied by everyones favorite weapon choice, sword and shield
[/quote]

Sure a 0,5 sec "Knockback" is equal then a 2-4 sec stun... agree Totally Gorthax... its a HARD-CC which definition can be found in the MMO-Duden written by.. guess it... Gorthax.
And it surely was a bug since the beginning of the Game, the same as the passive of Reso Staff 6% healing to absolutely only reso abilities.
You are so right man...

TehMagnus

Rook_Master wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Maybe because talons got nerfed before, just like 3/4 of DK's abilities.

Pure coincidence that 8/12 were DKs on your HR Record, I'm sure.

You guys could have done this with 8/12 Templar or Nightblade, right?

1- Templar are supposed to be healers so I don't understand why you speak of them 8). I mean you don't see DKs or NBs crying about the fact they don't have OP skills like Breath of Life or Combat Prayer .

2 - We could actually do that and prolly even better with 12 Nightblades if they where all pulling same DPS as Enclaver .

3- Cesille was DPSing in that run, so it means he's like our 9th DK .

pppontus wrote: »

Jeez, I'm sure they all used burning talons so they could kill the Mantikora faster? How is this contributing to the discussion here?

No sane DK DPS will use talons, but this *8DKs group getting under 7min time* picture seems to have become the new official QQ "DKs are too op, make us more OP" weapon.

Worst part is that Templars are pulling as much and maybe even more (doubt so , sory @Alcast) DPS than DKs in 1.6, but people will still find ways to QQ.

Rook_Master

TehMagnus wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Maybe because talons got nerfed before, just like 3/4 of DK's abilities.

Pure coincidence that 8/12 were DKs on your HR Record, I'm sure.

You guys could have done this with 8/12 Templar or Nightblade, right?

Templar are supposed to be healers so I don't understand why you speak of them 8). I mean you don't see DKs or NBs crying about the fact they don't have OP skills like Breath of Life or Combat Prayer .

We could actually do that and prolly even better with 12 Nightblades if they where all pulling same DPS as Enclaver .

pppontus wrote: »

[q

Jeez, I'm sure they all used burning talons so they could kill the Mantikora faster? How is this contributing to the discussion here?

No sane DK DPS will use talons, but this *8DKs group getting under 7min time* picture seems to have become the new official QQ "DKs are too op, make us more OP" weapon.

Worst part is that Templars are pulling as much and maybe even more (doubt so , sory @Alcast) DPS than DKs in 1.6, but people will still find ways to QQ.

You guys are definitely very skilled players, and I do admire what you've accomplished.. And I don't blame you all for choosing to use the most powerful class in the game to achieve this time, it makes perfect sense.

However, this could not be done with 8/12 Nightblades or Sorcerers, and I'm pretty sure you know that, as skilled as your teammate Enclaver might be.

Gil_Galad has made an extremely detailed post about why Sorcerers are going to be bottom of the barrel for Trials in 1.6.

I didn't mean to distract from the conversation about Templars CC being nerfed.

TehMagnus

Rook_Master wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Maybe because talons got nerfed before, just like 3/4 of DK's abilities.

Pure coincidence that 8/12 were DKs on your HR Record, I'm sure.

You guys could have done this with 8/12 Templar or Nightblade, right?

Templar are supposed to be healers so I don't understand why you speak of them 8). I mean you don't see DKs or NBs crying about the fact they don't have OP skills like Breath of Life or Combat Prayer .

We could actually do that and prolly even better with 12 Nightblades if they where all pulling same DPS as Enclaver .

pppontus wrote: »

[q

Jeez, I'm sure they all used burning talons so they could kill the Mantikora faster? How is this contributing to the discussion here?

No sane DK DPS will use talons, but this *8DKs group getting under 7min time* picture seems to have become the new official QQ "DKs are too op, make us more OP" weapon.

Worst part is that Templars are pulling as much and maybe even more (doubt so , sory @Alcast) DPS than DKs in 1.6, but people will still find ways to QQ.

You guys are definitely very skilled players, and I do admire what you've accomplished.. And I don't blame you all for choosing to use the most powerful class in the game to achieve this time, it makes perfect sense.

However, this could not be done with 8/12 Nightblades or Sorcerers, and I'm pretty sure you know that, as skilled as your teammate Enclaver might be.

Gil_Galad has made an extremely detailed post about why Sorcerers are going to be bottom of the barrel for Trials in 1.6.

I didn't mean to distract from the conversation about Templars CC being nerfed.

Well, someone needs to be on the bottom in any case (and yeah it could be done with NBs, Baby Face Bananas was beating our times with almost pure NBs teams before we got the valkyn builds and enough DKs to use them correctly).

With 12 NBs you don't need healer because they heal each other passively and you get almost instant execution below 25% with a DPS loss for the other 75% that is only of a couple hundred DPS below a DK's but you don't need a healer so that extra player balances the DPS. Most of us have Nightblade Alts but I don't know anyone who can do as much DPS as Enclaver (and he's usually really close to our DKs i most instances).

To put back the conversation on track, DK talons aren't as OP as you portray them, the animation will still appear but once you've roll-dodged out of them (you can't break out of them), you'll have CC immunity and you only keep seeing the animation appear because of the damage.

The few times I go PVP and use the usual Invasion + talons, I always see people running without being stopped or rooted by my talons. That being said, I didn't have any difficulty with templars's CC but must admit that the only class where the fight was difficult vs my DK was the stamina Templars (so I guess good stamina templars where obliterating sorcs & Nbs and thus they getting nerfed a bit on the CC side).

Rook_Master

TehMagnus wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

Maybe because talons got nerfed before, just like 3/4 of DK's abilities.

Pure coincidence that 8/12 were DKs on your HR Record, I'm sure.

You guys could have done this with 8/12 Templar or Nightblade, right?

Templar are supposed to be healers so I don't understand why you speak of them 8). I mean you don't see DKs or NBs crying about the fact they don't have OP skills like Breath of Life or Combat Prayer .

We could actually do that and prolly even better with 12 Nightblades if they where all pulling same DPS as Enclaver .

pppontus wrote: »

[q

Jeez, I'm sure they all used burning talons so they could kill the Mantikora faster? How is this contributing to the discussion here?

No sane DK DPS will use talons, but this *8DKs group getting under 7min time* picture seems to have become the new official QQ "DKs are too op, make us more OP" weapon.

Worst part is that Templars are pulling as much and maybe even more (doubt so , sory @Alcast) DPS than DKs in 1.6, but people will still find ways to QQ.

You guys are definitely very skilled players, and I do admire what you've accomplished.. And I don't blame you all for choosing to use the most powerful class in the game to achieve this time, it makes perfect sense.

However, this could not be done with 8/12 Nightblades or Sorcerers, and I'm pretty sure you know that, as skilled as your teammate Enclaver might be.

Gil_Galad has made an extremely detailed post about why Sorcerers are going to be bottom of the barrel for Trials in 1.6.

I didn't mean to distract from the conversation about Templars CC being nerfed.

Well, someone needs to be on the bottom in any case (and yeah it could be done with NBs, Baby Face Bananas was beating our times with almost pure NBs teams before we got the valkyn builds and enough DKs to use them correctly).

With 12 NBs you don't need healer because they heal each other passively and you get almost instant execution below 25% with a DPS loss for the other 75% that is only of a couple hundred DPS below a DK's but you don't need a healer so that extra player balances the DPS. Most of us have Nightblade Alts but I don't know anyone who can do as much DPS as Enclaver (and he's usually really close to our DKs i most instances).

To put back the conversation on track, DK talons aren't as OP as you portray them, the animation will still appear but once you've roll-dodged out of them (you can't break out of them), you'll have CC immunity and you only keep seeing the animation appear because of the damage.

The few times I go PVP and use the usual Invasion + talons, I always see people running without being stopped or rooted by my talons. That being said, I didn't have any difficulty with templars's CC but must admit that the only class where the fight was difficult vs my DK was the stamina Templars (so I guess good stamina templars where obliterating sorcs & Nbs and thus they getting nerfed a bit on the CC side).

Rolling out of Talons doesn't grant CC immunity.

What you're seeing is some sort of graphical glitch where the Talons visual effect isn't immediately dispelled when you roll. Either that, or they have been rooted again, but will still finish the current roll, because, you know, you can't dodge it.

tplink3r1

Why dont they just remove the CC from it? That would be much better.

Rook_Master

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Why dont they just remove the CC from it? That would be much better.

Sadly, I think I would actually prefer that to the free 7-sec CC immunity they get from the love tap at the end of Jabs.

Joy_Division

This really isn't that hard to figure out.

If you get CCed with Biting Jabs, it is like your controller getting disconnected: you can't defend or attack while the Templar stun spams you.

If a DK talons you, you can still defend yourself or attack just fine. Not being able to move is an inconvenience, not a hard CC that leave you 100% vulnerable from an enemy attack.

Edit: I will say as a Templar, I would have preferred that ZoS removed the CC of the Biting Jabs skill rather than grant the opponent CC immunity. It's not nearly as hard CC as stuff like invasion or uppercut...it was the ability to spam the skill repeatedly that locked the opponent in place.

So I do understand the frustration the OP has since I'd rather not use the skill bestow onto my opponent the very potent CC immunity whereas a DK has no such reluctance to use talons.

In short, the Biting Jabs stunlock needed to be addressed, but ZoS went about it all wrong. Either make the CC from Biting Jabs worthy of being a hard CC or simply make Biting Jabs an bash/interrupt like effect like that of Crushing Shock/Venom Arrow (probably what I would have done).

david.haypreub18_ESO

Rook_Master wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Why dont they just remove the CC from it? That would be much better.

Sadly, I think I would actually prefer that to the free 7-sec CC immunity they get from the love tap at the end of Jabs.

Most Templars I know would too. You know the developers have screwed up when the class that uses the skill is asking for the CC to be removed. It really does cripple the skill's usefulness.

Cinbri

Just change knockback by root ability for nearest target and it will be perfect.

XEVENEX

I feel the same about Streak. Free immunity in exchange for a 1 second stun is not a good deal. It's pretty clear they had no plan or even a simple set of guide lines when they made the class skills. They just did it all willy-nilly, whatever sounded "cool" at the time. Each class should get an instant cc, a hard hitting iterruptable cc, and a soft cc, each with its own style and flavor of course, but fundamentally equal. This is how balance is created. It's really not that difficult.