Eric Wrobel are the changes to armor mitigation final?

Digiman

Like the title says I am wondering if they are final? I find it extremely awkward that while medium armor is 3/4 of heavy armor. 1/4 reduction to light armor is a close to wearing a nothing at all is ludicrous.

Because of this, you have forced yourself into a uncle position where you can't do a single thing to shielding without utter breaking the Sorcerer class who is completely dependent on cloth armor for magicka use of abilities.

Quite frankly I think making cloth mitigation 1/2 of heavy armor would give you more leg room for adjusting shielding problems without overhauling the mechanic to an area where it become a huge problem later down the line.

The idea for nerfing this mitigation was inspired to pronounce the difference in survivability between the types where heavy armor is the king, 1/2 won't scratch that and still make leather armor the medium and heavy armor the top.

But the direction of magicka ranged DPS is an utter mess, where heavy armor is finalized in king of defense and you have leather armor king of physical offense you have flat out misdirected the direction in light armor being the king of magicka to being magicka efficient only.

Either through prejudice for unknown reasons or utter ignorance, the clear fact is that light armor should increase spell power, not just become the best type for magicka efficiency 1 hit wonder for physical attacks of the pts realm where the sorcerer class become dependent on shielding to ridiculous levels.

Even medium armor increase physical damage, time developers wake up and do the same for light armor so they have better room to adjust other abilities without fear of breaking a class for a year since 1.6 is the last major update for the next time frame. Look at spell penetration under the Concentration passives is an utter insult if you want further evidence?

Lastly is either you address this now or be faced with a bigger problem where when it comes pronounced when adding new classes that are magicka based with system utterly made of rubber bands and paper clips when it comes to armor types and are forced to waste resources and money to overhaul system because you ignored it a year ago.

So are these changes to armor mitigation final? I want to know so I can plan accordingly for the next year on how to play or even pay further for this game?

kkampaseb17_ESO

Because LA tanking was a Sorcerer thing.....Good change. No more bathrobes + SnB. It is a solid change. If you want to tank in LA...expect some serious sacrifices.

Dracane

I think it's funny Since the latest ESO live show, Eric's name is mentioned soooo often. I'm feeling a bit sorry for the poor (and cute) guy. Because everyone is making him responsive for the whole development.

He now is the face of Zenimax Without a doubt, the prettiest face, ZoS could have.

At topic: I don't want to complain about the defense of light armor. If they would give us the damage to compensate this, it's fine. It's not fair, Medium armor has 3 times the mitigation of light armor and also gives a huge damage buff.

Lynx7386

Here's how it works, for those of you that think "1/4 for light armor" is unfair:

1. Nearly every damage shield in the game uses magicka. The only damage shield that does not use magicka is brawler, in the 2handed line, which requires being in the midst of a large number of enemies to give a decent return.

2. For the most part, players wearing medium armor will be engaging in close-range combat, thus putting themselves right in the middle of cleaves, AoE attacks, or straight hits from the enemy.

3. Heavy armor is designed for tanking, obviously, and sacrifices all damage potential for maximum armor and spell resistance.

4. Medium armor, because it lacks access to stamina-based damage shields for survivability, gets 3/4 armor and spell resist value to better survive all of those aoe's and attacks it will have to deal with.

5. Light armor, because it focuses on magicka, is able to spam damage shields better than any other armor type in order to provide damage mitigation. Because of this, you have the least actual armor and spell resistance, and have to rely on those damage shields for your defensive applications.

You may complain that having to use damage shields so much eats into your magicka pool and reduces the number of spells you can cast otherwise. Medium armor users have to eat into their stamina pool via dodge, block, and bash, which does the exact same thing.

All is balanced and fine. Light armor users just need to stop expecting to facetank everything and start playing a little more strategically. Find a damage shield and use it.

Derra

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Here's how it works, for those of you that think "1/4 for light armor" is unfair:

1. Nearly every damage shield in the game uses magicka. The only damage shield that does not use magicka is brawler, in the 2handed line, which requires being in the midst of a large number of enemies to give a decent return.

2. For the most part, players wearing medium armor will be engaging in close-range combat, thus putting themselves right in the middle of cleaves, AoE attacks, or straight hits from the enemy.

3. Heavy armor is designed for tanking, obviously, and sacrifices all damage potential for maximum armor and spell resistance.

4. Medium armor, because it lacks access to stamina-based damage shields for survivability, gets 3/4 armor and spell resist value to better survive all of those aoe's and attacks it will have to deal with.

5. Light armor, because it focuses on magicka, is able to spam damage shields better than any other armor type in order to provide damage mitigation. Because of this, you have the least actual armor and spell resistance, and have to rely on those damage shields for your defensive applications.

You may complain that having to use damage shields so much eats into your magicka pool and reduces the number of spells you can cast otherwise. Medium armor users have to eat into their stamina pool via dodge, block, and bash, which does the exact same thing.

All is balanced and fine. Light armor users just need to stop expecting to facetank everything and start playing a little more strategically. Find a damage shield and use it.

Still does not explain why med armor would get dmg buffs and mitigation over light armor.

I´m fine with the low protection light armor provides now. I´d like to see better spell penetration or a spelldmg buff instead of the 9xx resi debuff concentration provides now.

Gyudan

Dracane wrote: »

I think it's funny Since the latest ESO live show, Eric's name is mentioned soooo often. I'm feeling a bit sorry for the poor (and cute) guy. Because everyone is making him responsive for the whole development.

Eric Wrobel:

Aimelin

Derra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Here's how it works, for those of you that think "1/4 for light armor" is unfair:

1. Nearly every damage shield in the game uses magicka. The only damage shield that does not use magicka is brawler, in the 2handed line, which requires being in the midst of a large number of enemies to give a decent return.

2. For the most part, players wearing medium armor will be engaging in close-range combat, thus putting themselves right in the middle of cleaves, AoE attacks, or straight hits from the enemy.

3. Heavy armor is designed for tanking, obviously, and sacrifices all damage potential for maximum armor and spell resistance.

4. Medium armor, because it lacks access to stamina-based damage shields for survivability, gets 3/4 armor and spell resist value to better survive all of those aoe's and attacks it will have to deal with.

5. Light armor, because it focuses on magicka, is able to spam damage shields better than any other armor type in order to provide damage mitigation. Because of this, you have the least actual armor and spell resistance, and have to rely on those damage shields for your defensive applications.

You may complain that having to use damage shields so much eats into your magicka pool and reduces the number of spells you can cast otherwise. Medium armor users have to eat into their stamina pool via dodge, block, and bash, which does the exact same thing.

All is balanced and fine. Light armor users just need to stop expecting to facetank everything and start playing a little more strategically. Find a damage shield and use it.

Still does not explain why med armor would get dmg buffs and mitigation over light armor.

I´m fine with the low protection light armor provides now. I´d like to see better spell penetration or a spelldmg buff instead of the 9xx resi debuff concentration provides now.

also, incoming 15% nerf to dmg shields in pvp ...

Derra

If you ppl glorify wrobel a little more he might just do sth. silly bc he likes the attention he´s getting along with that.

Dracane

Gyudan wrote: »

Eric Wrobel:

^-^ so mean.....

Ffastyl

A point to add, @Lynx7386‌, is that magicka users are primarily ranged attackers. ESO is group oriented at the uppermost levels of play: casters are going to be in the back line, away from all the physical damage (minus archers) and behind a line of melee-oriented fighters.

Much of the PvP class balance feedback is coming from duels, which are a unique situation. They are one-on-one close-range fights. This is the situation casters are not supposed to be in, save against other casters.

Before we cry "imbalance," let us observe several large scale battles on PTS.

Dracane

Ffastyl wrote: »

A point to add, @Lynx7386‌, is that magicka users are primarily ranged attackers. ESO is group oriented at the uppermost levels of play: casters are going to be in the back line, away from all the physical damage (minus archers) and behind a line of melee-oriented fighters.

Much of the PvP class balance feedback is coming from duels, which are a unique situation. They are one-on-one close-range fights. This is the situation casters are not supposed to be in, save against other casters.

Before we cry "imbalance," let us observe several large scale battles on PTS.

That does not change the fact, that light armor is not fair. It provides basically no defense, but does not boost the direct damage. The defense can stay as it is, but we need to get something to compensate this huge weakness.

madangrypally

I think they missed the mark when it came to armor changes. That being said I like the changes that are on PTS more then I like the current live version.

Armor in general needs to be rethought on there purposes.

Remove all passives from armor.
Reduce Magicka and Stamina cost of all abilities to cover loosing those passives.
Make Armor not about type of damage the character deals but about damage and damage mitigation.

IE: Light Armor deals more damage but has low mitigation. Medium Armor is has damage and damage mitigation split evenly, and Heavy Armor has low damage but high mitigation.

Dracane

madangrypally wrote: »

IE: Light Armor deals more damage but has low mitigation. Medium Armor is has damage and damage mitigation split evenly, and Heavy Armor has low damage but high mitigation.

But how does light armor deal more damage ? It does not even increase spell damage. While medium armor indeed has a direct and pretty huge damage buff and also has 3 times the protection of light armor ?

danno8

Pretty sure Wrobel said more spell pen is coming for LA. I'll try to find the quote, unless someone else beats me to it.

edit : Found it, at the 56:20 mark of the latest ESO live.

Kupoking

Digiman wrote: »

Like the title says I am wondering if they are final? I find it extremely awkward that while medium armor is 3/4 of heavy armor. 1/4 reduction to light armor is a close to wearing a nothing at all is ludicrous.

Because of this, you have forced yourself into a uncle position where you can't do a single thing to shielding without utter breaking the Sorcerer class who is completely dependent on cloth armor for magicka use of abilities.

Quite frankly I think making cloth mitigation 1/2 of heavy armor would give you more leg room for adjusting shielding problems without overhauling the mechanic to an area where it become a huge problem later down the line.

The idea for nerfing this mitigation was inspired to pronounce the difference in survivability between the types where heavy armor is the king, 1/2 won't scratch that and still make leather armor the medium and heavy armor the top.

But the direction of magicka ranged DPS is an utter mess, where heavy armor is finalized in king of defense and you have leather armor king of physical offense you have flat out misdirected the direction in light armor being the king of magicka to being magicka efficient only.

Either through prejudice for unknown reasons or utter ignorance, the clear fact is that light armor should increase spell power, not just become the best type for magicka efficiency 1 hit wonder for physical attacks of the pts realm where the sorcerer class become dependent on shielding to ridiculous levels.

Even medium armor increase physical damage, time developers wake up and do the same for light armor so they have better room to adjust other abilities without fear of breaking a class for a year since 1.6 is the last major update for the next time frame. Look at spell penetration under the Concentration passives is an utter insult if you want further evidence?

Lastly is either you address this now or be faced with a bigger problem where when it comes pronounced when adding new classes that are magicka based with system utterly made of rubber bands and paper clips when it comes to armor types and are forced to waste resources and money to overhaul system because you ignored it a year ago.

So are these changes to armor mitigation final? I want to know so I can plan accordingly for the next year on how to play or even pay further for this game?

No, no, no, and no! The actual 1.5 meta in which light armor users goes toe to toe with melee damage dealers using abilities like impulse and NOT dieing must change.

It's not a balanced mechanic; just look at, uh, all other games. Light armor should be high damage, low protection. High risk, high reward. Now its low risk high reward because you get extreme ressource regen with amazing damage along with unreal resistance.

It isnt normal so look at mages in dresses going into a 1vX and taking as much damage as a tank would. No other armor type have the same efficiency.

Light armor users must rely on the spells to stay alive and not only damage shields, but Crowd Control, Movement spells, debuffs, heals along with good positioning and timing. Cant do that? Well then you dont deserve the great sustained damage and ressource utility this type of armor brings.

Snit

If they are going to balance DPS among classes and magicka/ stam builds, mitigation must also be at least approximately equivalent. Active defenses are probably the easiest route.

trimsic_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Here's how it works, for those of you that think "1/4 for light armor" is unfair:

1. Nearly every damage shield in the game uses magicka. The only damage shield that does not use magicka is brawler, in the 2handed line, which requires being in the midst of a large number of enemies to give a decent return.

2. For the most part, players wearing medium armor will be engaging in close-range combat, thus putting themselves right in the middle of cleaves, AoE attacks, or straight hits from the enemy.

3. Heavy armor is designed for tanking, obviously, and sacrifices all damage potential for maximum armor and spell resistance.

4. Medium armor, because it lacks access to stamina-based damage shields for survivability, gets 3/4 armor and spell resist value to better survive all of those aoe's and attacks it will have to deal with.

5. Light armor, because it focuses on magicka, is able to spam damage shields better than any other armor type in order to provide damage mitigation. Because of this, you have the least actual armor and spell resistance, and have to rely on those damage shields for your defensive applications.

You may complain that having to use damage shields so much eats into your magicka pool and reduces the number of spells you can cast otherwise. Medium armor users have to eat into their stamina pool via dodge, block, and bash, which does the exact same thing.

All is balanced and fine. Light armor users just need to stop expecting to facetank everything and start playing a little more strategically. Find a damage shield and use it.

A huge +1
It's just that they are not used to sometimes be in a defensive stance... They don't realize that we, the stamina players, are obliged to deplete our stamina pool for dodging, blocking, etc... since 2014/4/4

eliisra

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Pretty sure Wrobel said more spell pen is coming for LA. I'll try to find the quote, unless someone else beats me to it.

edit : Found it, at the 56:20 mark of the latest ESO live.

I heard that to and fair enough. But not everyone in LA is a damage dealer, something ZOS_EricWrobel seems to forget.

Loads of players in groups run heal- and support builds, they gain close to nothing from extra spell pen (besides possible more 1% fluff heal from Funnel if I'm playing my NB). What is a LA healer suppose to do with spell pen, enjoy a slightly higher heavy resto attack?

Players running heal- and support bar already have way less survivability than a dps build in PvP. Simple because they dont have enough free skill slots to equip cc, movement, nukes, every damage mitigating shield and buff in the game, to protect themselves. By nerfing LA, nerfing heals, nerfing shields, they're even more sitting ducks, in need of bodyguards.

Point is, if LA is suppose to be made out of paper, there should also be passives that boosts all types of LA users to make up for it. More spell power for higher heals and stronger support skills would be a start, since you sacrifice survivability.

Dracane

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

No, no, no, and no! The actual 1.5 meta in which light armor users goes toe to toe with melee damage dealers using abilities like impulse and NOT dieing must change.

It's not a balanced mechanic; just look at, uh, all other games. Light armor should be high damage, low protection. High risk, high reward. Now its low risk high reward because you get extreme ressource regen with amazing damage along with unreal resistance.

It isnt normal so look at mages in dresses going into a 1vX and taking as much damage as a tank would. No other armor type have the same efficiency.

Light armor users must rely on the spells to stay alive and not only damage shields, but Crowd Control, Movement spells, debuffs, heals along with good positioning and timing. Cant do that? Well then you dont deserve the great sustained damage and ressource utility this type of armor brings.

What did you just say ? O.o are you okay ?
Using light armor is extremely risky, as you get one shotted (2 shotted if you're lucky), when you receive hits on your health bar. Light armor gives close to 0 resistance and close to 0 damage. The only damage buff to light armor is a 1,5% spell penetration, which "increases" the damage output by a not messurable amount

And I also can't spot INSANE ressource regeneration. Light armor gives an increase to magicka regen, medium armor to stamina regen and heavy to health regen. It's pretty even in my opinion.

While medium armor has 3 times the resistance of light armor and has a big weapon damage buff. Don't even try to tell us, light armor is fair or fine !

Snit

Light Armor 2.0: All of the Glass, None of the Cannon!

Get yours now!

Kupoking

Dracane wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

No, no, no, and no! The actual 1.5 meta in which light armor users goes toe to toe with melee damage dealers using abilities like impulse and NOT dieing must change.

It's not a balanced mechanic; just look at, uh, all other games. Light armor should be high damage, low protection. High risk, high reward. Now its low risk high reward because you get extreme ressource regen with amazing damage along with unreal resistance.

It isnt normal so look at mages in dresses going into a 1vX and taking as much damage as a tank would. No other armor type have the same efficiency.

Light armor users must rely on the spells to stay alive and not only damage shields, but Crowd Control, Movement spells, debuffs, heals along with good positioning and timing. Cant do that? Well then you dont deserve the great sustained damage and ressource utility this type of armor brings.

What did you just say ? O.o are you okay ?
Using light armor is extremely risky, as you get one shotted (2 shotted if you're lucky), when you receive hits on your health bar. Light armor gives close to 0 resistance and close to 0 damage. The only damage buff to light armor is a 1,5% spell penetration, which "increases" the damage output by a not messurable amount

And I also can't spot INSANE ressource regeneration. Light armor gives an increase to magicka regen, medium armor to stamina regen and heavy to health regen. It's pretty even in my opinion.

While medium armor has 3 times the resistance of light armor and has a big weapon damage buff. Don't even try to tell us, light armor is fair or fine !

Are you insane? Look at Sypher's videos and come tell me again that light armor users are getting two shotted.<

P.S. I should know, i'm using that type of armor

Dracane

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Are you insane? Look at Sypher's videos and come tell me again that light armor users are getting two shotted.<

P.S. I should know, i'm using that type of armor

I don't have to watch his videos. I am right next to him these days and can watch him. He is using damage shields. Without them, he would be a pile of ash in no time and this is going to happen soon. 15% less shields and obviously even CRITS against damage shields (holy Auri-El). And Sypher is using cloak, which allows him to avoid a lot of damage and presure. Sorcerers don't have access to this.

We'll talk again in a few days I assume -.-

Kupoking

seriously guys, look at videos of guys like sypher, velukodi, randolfe and look at the beatings those players take head on versus the damage they dish out and the recovery rate of their ressources.

Dracane

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

seriously guys, look at videos of guys like sypher, velukodi, randolfe and look at the beatings those players take head on versus the damage they dish out and the recovery rate of their ressources.

As I said before, you daedric worshipper: Damage shields is what is making light armor playable. I dare to say, this is going to end in a few days.

danno8

Dracane wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Are you insane? Look at Sypher's videos and come tell me again that light armor users are getting two shotted.<

P.S. I should know, i'm using that type of armor

I don't have to watch his videos. I am right next to him these days and can watch him. He is using damage shields. Without them, he would be a pile of ash in no time and this is going to happen soon. 15% less shields and obviously even CRITS against damage shields (holy Auri-El). And Sypher is using cloak, which allows him to avoid a lot of damage and presure. Sorcerers don't have access to this.

We'll talk again in a few days I assume -.-

But Sorcerers do have access to an extra class shield that scales off of Magicka.

Am I right in assuming you just don't like damage shields? Because according to your wording they work well in mitigating damage, and yet you sound like you think they are terrible.

I don't think the 15% nerf will make much difference TBH. Going from a 20k damage shield to a 17k damage shield. Can you find me the quote that says damage shields will take crit damage in 1.6.3? I missed that.

Dracane

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Are you insane? Look at Sypher's videos and come tell me again that light armor users are getting two shotted.<

P.S. I should know, i'm using that type of armor

I don't have to watch his videos. I am right next to him these days and can watch him. He is using damage shields. Without them, he would be a pile of ash in no time and this is going to happen soon. 15% less shields and obviously even CRITS against damage shields (holy Auri-El). And Sypher is using cloak, which allows him to avoid a lot of damage and presure. Sorcerers don't have access to this.

We'll talk again in a few days I assume -.-

But Sorcerers do have access to an extra class shield that scales off of Magicka.

Am I right in assuming you just don't like damage shields? Because according to your wording they work well in mitigating damage, and yet you sound like you think they are terrible.

I don't think the 15% nerf will make much difference TBH. Going from a 20k damage shield to a 17k damage shield. Can you find me the quote that says damage shields will take crit damage in 1.6.3? I missed that.

I am not a fan of shield stacking. I only use conjured ward, or conjured ward+ harness magicka against other Sorcs. In my opinion, healing ward is the villain and is the one, making shield stacking so terrible. And believe me: Conjured ward alone is destroyed in no time. So people like me, who don't stack shields, get punished as well.

And they did not say, crits are possible now. But at the same time, they did
Surge is going to heal against damage shields now. Hm, Surge only heals on crits. This means....

danno8

Dracane wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Are you insane? Look at Sypher's videos and come tell me again that light armor users are getting two shotted.<

P.S. I should know, i'm using that type of armor

I don't have to watch his videos. I am right next to him these days and can watch him. He is using damage shields. Without them, he would be a pile of ash in no time and this is going to happen soon. 15% less shields and obviously even CRITS against damage shields (holy Auri-El). And Sypher is using cloak, which allows him to avoid a lot of damage and presure. Sorcerers don't have access to this.

We'll talk again in a few days I assume -.-

But Sorcerers do have access to an extra class shield that scales off of Magicka.

Am I right in assuming you just don't like damage shields? Because according to your wording they work well in mitigating damage, and yet you sound like you think they are terrible.

I don't think the 15% nerf will make much difference TBH. Going from a 20k damage shield to a 17k damage shield. Can you find me the quote that says damage shields will take crit damage in 1.6.3? I missed that.

I am not a fan of shield stacking. I only use conjured ward, or conjured ward+ harness magicka against other Sorcs. In my opinion, healing ward is the villain and is the one, making shield stacking so terrible. And believe me: Conjured ward alone is destroyed in no time. So people like me, who don't stack shields, get punished as well.

And they did not say, crits are possible now. But at the same time, they did
Surge is going to heal against damage shields now. Hm, Surge only heals on crits. This means....

To be clear I would far prefer nerfed shields (greater cost and less magnitude) and everyone have greater health pools.

In regards to the Surge thing, you could be right, but quite honestly they could be coding in anything. You could get a heal on the crit value, but the damage registered on the bubble has a crit magnitude of zero, giving you just the base heal value. Will have to test next week.

Exstazik

Suggestion:Lightning Form -Caster ignores [y]% of all physical damage for [x] seconds.(aka Dragonhide-Caster ignores 80% of all physical damage for 30 seconds.)
*Note 5k+ not enough buff

madangrypally

Exstazik wrote: »

Suggestion:Lightning Form -Caster ignores [y]% of all physical damage for [x] seconds.(aka Dragonhide-Caster ignores 80% of all physical damage for 30 seconds.)
*Note 5k+ not enough buff

Talk about massive OP.

Exstazik

madangrypally wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Suggestion:Lightning Form -Caster ignores [y]% of all physical damage for [x] seconds.(aka Dragonhide-Caster ignores 80% of all physical damage for 30 seconds.)
*Note 5k+ not enough buff

Talk about massive OP.

Lightning Form -Caster ignores first physical damage after using this spell (CD 4 sec)
*NOTE.
Lightning Form 3591 Magicka Instant Self

Reflective Scales up to 4 projectiles over 4 seconds.3591 Magicka Instant Self

Domander

Ffastyl wrote: »

A point to add, @Lynx7386‌, is that magicka users are primarily ranged attackers. ESO is group oriented at the uppermost levels of play: casters are going to be in the back line, away from all the physical damage (minus archers) and behind a line of melee-oriented fighters.

Much of the PvP class balance feedback is coming from duels, which are a unique situation. They are one-on-one close-range fights. This is the situation casters are not supposed to be in, save against other casters.

Before we cry "imbalance," let us observe several large scale battles on PTS.

hmm, what about all those close range magicka spells? I think there's as many close range spells (think impulse or most of the DK spells, concealed weapon, etc) as "ranged"

oh, and the pts crashes with large scale battles.