Vigor. New AvA Skill in 1.6

olsborg

Requires rank 10, wich imo is way too high, new characters made because stamina builds can now heal more reliably will have to play the game for weeks before they unlock this and incorporate it into the build. It would be better imo if it had rank 5 or 6.

Exstazik

olsborg wrote: »

Requires rank 10, wich imo is way too high, new characters made because stamina builds can now heal more reliably will have to play the game for weeks before they unlock this and incorporate it into the build. It would be better imo if it had rank 5 or 6.

You can use momentum for self heal while not get Vigor.

Suntzu1414

i agree with the author.

If you are level 10 (which btw is about 1% of everyone playing pvp), why would you need a self heal? at this level of play, you don't NEED THIS...

please consider swapping Detonation Skill for Vigor.
Open up SKILLS to players that NEED THEM...


For kind consideration
ST

DeLindsay

It can take dedicated Players a month to even reach PvP Rank 12 for Caltrops (Assault Rank 6). Support Rank 10 is what, PvP Rank 28 24, that's just stupid.

Derra

Its rank 24.

I´d let it change place with rapid maneuvers, which is highly sitational at best, whereas a heal is substantial in ava.

ToRelax

DeLindsay wrote: »

It can take dedicated Players a month to even reach PvP Rank 12 for Caltrops (Assault Rank 6). Support Rank 10 is what, PvP Rank 28, that's just stupid.

Alliance war skilllines level 10 = Rank 24, but yes.

Seraphyel

They really need to adjust the needed levels for it...

DDuke

This skill is way too strong at the moment, and really becomes a "must have" in PvP.

It also doesn't feel like a stamina skill & homogenizes the PvP, where previously only 90% were playing "healers", it is more than likely going to be 99% if the skill goes live as it is.

Here's what I'd do with it:

• Make it a channeled (interruptable) ability. This way, you'd be able to heal, but it'd be different than magicka builds.
• Change the animation to something that fits a stamina ability. I don't feel like a physical damage dealer when every 5 seconds some green "stamina magic" happens around me. Same thing with Power Extraction (NB stamina morph) by the way.
• Increase the cost. The skill is pretty much spammable at the moment.

TheBull

Vigor is cool, but each cast can be erased with a heavy+insert skill. I'm not too concerned about it atm. The current heals in game are stronger.

DDuke

TheBull wrote: »

Vigor is cool, but each cast can be erased with a heavy+insert skill. I'm not too concerned about it atm. The current heals in game are stronger.

Not true. Vigor with 37k stamina, 1764 weapon dmg NB template, compared to heals with 47k magicka, 1039 spell dmg sorc template:



The drawback of stamina builds is supposed to be the lack of, or weaker heals/dmg shields, instead we're getting the strongest heal in game (didn't test magicka Templar yet though) & the best DPS (as well as more dmg reduction from medium armour).

Siluen

I'd vote for just swapping it around with magicka detonation.

DeLindsay

Lol that someone thinks a 10K HoT over 5 seconds is going to save them or somehow makes them OP while "Healing" as a Squishy Stamina Glass-canon build. Leave Vigor alone (heal/cost) but move it down a few Ranks (at least 6, but no more than 8)

DDuke

DeLindsay wrote: »

Lol that someone thinks a 10K HoT over 5 seconds is going to save them or somehow makes them OP while "Healing" as a Squishy Stamina Glass-canon build. Leave Vigor alone (heal/cost) but move it down a few Ranks (at least 6, but no more than 8)

Playing as a stamina build with zero heals & zero dmg shields, I can tell you stamina builds are not squishy if played right, and extremely fun to play.

Having access to better & cheaper heals than resto staff, better dmg reduction than magicka builds & capability to roll dodge/block more is not balanced.


Besides, it is only going to destroy build diversity, when even those who didn't have heals before are suddenly using them.

It'll quickly become Elder Healers Online.


The ability also has nothing to do with stamina (from RPG/lore perspective).
It's clearly magic, why does it cost stamina?

Snit

I assume it stacks, too. As Stamina builds are going to be more popular going forward, I wonder if we'll see groups where several of these HoT's are running simultaneously. That could become fairly significant.

Zheg

My NB used to be an alt, but became a main after finally throwing in the towel on a khajiit sorc. I've been working towards grinding up his pvp ranks for this skill, but I can see many people getting frustrated and giving up. Alliance ranks have always been a problem for people that have alts, and ZOS has been given feedback on that multiple times but remains quiet. Unfortunately, this will come down to pure farming of AP as the requirement is significantly high, and there are only a few cheese builds and zergball styles of play that facilitate high AP farming. Zergballs make pvp not so fun, so hopefully this doesn't start a vicious cycle and cause more people to drop out of pvp.

I'd say keep the passives at high ranks, but make the active skills top out at 6 or

To people saying the skill is OP, we need to actually see how the meta plays out before making that call. I'll remind you that DK's GDB is still going to be the preferred heal, and temps have their own awesome heals (AND both classes have good shield skills). The NB class skills have no damage shields, no legitimate heals, and no armor buffs (a passive that gives the major buffs for 4 seconds after using a shadow skill doesn't count). A sometimes buggy stealth skill does not equalize the situation. Sorcs still lack good class heals, but at least they have an awesome shield. I don't see the issue giving NBs a much needed possibility for a heal, and I think temps and DK's will still be running the same heals they currently are on their bars.

Asgari

Being able to stack rally with Vigor there is no reason it should be lower on the AvA list. It creates hits high enough to mitigate tons of dmg.

Recremen

Level 10 in the Alliance War skill lines is incredibly difficult to get to. I've only ever PvP'd on my main, and for the last few months I've been rolling with a top PvP guild, but I'm still not even rank 24 (which gives you Alliance War skill line level 10). I don't know if that's working as intended or not, but it personally feels like an unnecessarily high investment just to unlock a skill. Aetherius forbid I ever try to do PvP on an alt.

Seraphyel

Totally right. I don't see any reason to lock out those skills for many players.

Takuto

Vigor has the potential to make many marginal stamina builds viable.

The argument that it was cause imbalance is a bit strange. The alternative is to leave the ability where it is only accessible to only the smallest subset of players. If it is really so strong, how would giving it access to only a few players make things more balanced?

Maldamus

Have you ever considered it may just be an amazing incentive to actually increase pvp participation, something that is actually sorely needed, and level 24 alliance rank isn't that incredibly hard to achieve, Christ if I can manage it as a mostly solo, noob pvp Templar healer then I'm sure many better players can with ease.

Snit

Well, there are two questions here:

1) Is it too hard to achieve?
2) Is it too powerful, especially once many people in organized groups can use it?

I'm not sure that it makes sense to say, "It's hard to achieve, therefore it should be amazingly powerful," as, given another year of play a LOT of people will have this ability.

c0rp

ZoS: Don't worry stam folks...we got a stam heal coming for you to save the day!

Stam folks: Sweet I cant wait, this is gonna help us a lot.

6 months later...

ZoS: We are putting the stam heal behind rank 24 in pvp guys! Have fun!

Stam folks: *facepalm*

Suntzu1414

if ESO/Zeni cannot get their heads around making this skill more accessible.

Then how about making Alliance Levels Global...Similar to our beloved CP.
I've got two First Sergeants. Both VR14...

How about some love here Zeni:p



Kill Well
ST

(i know i have updated my signature file...lazy cat)

olsborg

AvA ranks should imo, be account wide, talking the skill trees not the actual "Recruit - Sergeant etc".

BugCollector

olsborg wrote: »

AvA ranks should imo, be account wide, talking the skill trees not the actual "Recruit - Sergeant etc".

Agree, you should be able to level it up like any other skill.

WolfingHour

Can't speak for PvP but as a pve noob running a NB tank it's great that we finally have a "oh s..." panic button.

Having the skill behind a couple of weeks of PvP though, it's not my idea of fun though.

Sharee

Snit wrote: »

Well, there are two questions here:

1) Is it too hard to achieve?
2) Is it too powerful, especially once many people in organized groups can use it?

I'm not sure that it makes sense to say, "It's hard to achieve, therefore it should be amazingly powerful," as, given another year of play a LOT of people will have this ability.

About 2: While it is a powerful heal, it is stamina-based, and as such not really useful for magicka builds. And stamina-based builds are very limited in their choice of abilities (vast majority of class abilities are still magicka-based). For this reason, i do not expect organized groups to utilize vigor much, if at all. I expect it will be more a tool of lone-wolf players.

Also, as a stamina-based heal, it suffers from the same downside as all stamina-based abilities: it draws from the same pool as your defenses(block, dodge roll, CC break) and thus using it means an opportunity cost that magicka-based heals do not have.

manny254

My biggest complaint would be that I feel the devs arbitrarily placed this skills requirements. They don't care because they test things template characters. I would like to see how many devs are high enough in the game to use this skill on there actual character.

DeLindsay

manny254 wrote: »

My biggest complaint would be that I feel the devs arbitrarily placed this skills requirements. They don't care because they test things template characters. I would like to see how many devs are high enough in the game to use this skill on there actual character.

I can almost guarantee there isn't a single Dev, or ZoS Employee that is even Alliance Rank 12 for Caltrops on Live. There are many things in this game that make you wonder if they play it AT ALL. For example Eric Wrobel stated the reason for the CS nerf was because he felt it was too strong in PvP since it interrupted on every cast. He has obviously NEVER stepped foot in Cyro because had he done so he'd realize that there are almost NO casted abilities in the game, and of those hardly any used in PvP, save Shards. So he nerfs a main ability for PvE because he's mistaken about how it works in PvP, seems legit.

Hutuldur

No casted abilities in pvp? Snipe?

If there was less CS around, I am sure shards for example would be used more.

On topic, vigor looks good and not too OP. It's very hard to spam stamina skills as you need it in so many different things.

sabresandiego_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

My biggest complaint would be that I feel the devs arbitrarily placed this skills requirements. They don't care because they test things template characters. I would like to see how many devs are high enough in the game to use this skill on there actual character.

I can almost guarantee there isn't a single Dev, or ZoS Employee that is even Alliance Rank 12 for Caltrops on Live. There are many things in this game that make you wonder if they play it AT ALL. For example Eric Wrobel stated the reason for the CS nerf was because he felt it was too strong in PvP since it interrupted on every cast. He has obviously NEVER stepped foot in Cyro because had he done so he'd realize that there are almost NO casted abilities in the game, and of those hardly any used in PvP, save Shards. So he nerfs a main ability for PvE because he's mistaken about how it works in PvP, seems legit.

One of the reasons people dont use casted abilities is the over use of force shock, making casted abilities almost unusable outside of stealth snipes. With the change, hopefully the other morph retains damage and now you have to choose between damage and interrupts.