1.6.2. Nerf Crushing shock

florian.billeb16_ESO

I ask seriously the question about the reason of this nerf...

2H can do 20'000 DPS
sorcerer build with pet and crushing shock 12'400 and crushing shock is nerf...

Dear Zenimax, can you for one time explain us what you want to do...

All people stamina and play 2h ?

RinaldoGandolphi

Im a Sorc, i only use Crushing Shock in PVE, but this nerf really makes no sense.

Two handed does way more damage, and has more DPS to boot. This is a nerf that really makes no sense whatsoever.

Personally if they are nerfing Crushing Shock damage because it interupts, then this is the perfect time for them to make Force Pulse Viable:

Increase Force Pulse Damage 15% at rank IV

Force Pulse jumps to 2 additional targets close to the main target(no need to be effected with an element status first)...in other words make Force Pulse as Close to Skyrim Chain Lighting as you can get.

So you have the choice of less damage, but ranged interupt, or more damage and can hit multiple targets.

Dracane

Zenimax are reasonable people. They are going to remove the nerf with the next patch.
*Looks at Zenimax*: Aren't you removing it ?

At first, I thought my eyes are playing tricks. Because a 10% increase to damage would have made sense (at least 10%) but then I realised, it's a 10% decrease

Kypho

Crushing shock? the BS ranged crap what does too much damage, and getting anim canceled by every ..gcerer?

florian.billeb16_ESO

Kypho wrote: »

Crushing shock? the BS ranged crap what does too much damage, and getting anim canceled by every ..gcerer?

You play really PVE Raid to say that ?

Please answer my question, try to read some build for 1.6

and you will see, that magicka build (specialy for sorcerer are just not strong enought and can't be the same as 2h stamina build.

But no nerf on 2h... and 10 % less damage on crushing shock 8 % with warrior guild ability, 20 % with potion less damage... and so on

That's enough

DK Stamina build can do 20'000 DPS, and sorcerer with 3 toggle pet, only 12'000 (with crushing shock), and you tell that crushing shock is OP...

Thx for your commentary... next time please try to argue a little more

Alcast

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Crushing shock? the BS ranged crap what does too much damage, and getting anim canceled by every ..gcerer?

DK Stamina build can do 20'000 DPS, and sorcerer with 3 toggle pet, only 12'000 (with crushing shock), and you tell that crushing shock is OP...

Where do you get these numbers? 20k nope, burst yes ok, but not 20k over 100sec

florian.billeb16_ESO

On blood spawn,
but anyway it's doesn't change the problem of the nerf of crushing shock
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/fear-turbo-dragon-knight-stamina-dps-1-6-pts/

JuL1aN

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

On blood spawn,
but anyway it's doesn't change the problem of the nerf of crushing shock
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/fear-turbo-dragon-knight-stamina-dps-1-6-pts/

I would still outdps him on longer fights. So who cares about Burst DPS

Naivefanboi

damnit ive stuck with 2handed thru thick and thin since beta! hope they dont turn it into flavor of themonth

Robbmrp

Alcast wrote: »

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Crushing shock? the BS ranged crap what does too much damage, and getting anim canceled by every ..gcerer?

DK Stamina build can do 20'000 DPS, and sorcerer with 3 toggle pet, only 12'000 (with crushing shock), and you tell that crushing shock is OP...

Where do you get these numbers? 20k nope, burst yes ok, but not 20k over 100sec

I took this quote from the Thread titled "Can we get a hot fix on PTS".

McDoogs wrote: »

Ashanne wrote: »

so...whos the lucky winner of a 10 mil brawler? Noone? 11?
don't be shy now...

Do I win?

Yes, that's 15 Million damage....

People are getting one shotted with Charge also....

florian.billeb16_ESO

Anyways, it's doesn't explain at all why crushing shock is nerf of 10 % damage...

Joy_Division

I really wish sorcerers would stop claiming ownership of this skill.

Every magicka based DPS from every class and their mother used this skill because it blows away every other alternative.

Really not hard to figure out when people stop viewing the game through the biased lens of their own DPS.

joshisanonymous

If Crushing Shock didn't need to be nerfed, then why has it recently become the sole DPS ability for a large number of PvP builds? When every other dueler seems to be running a build centered on using nothing but Crushing Shock for DPS, there's gotta be something up with it.

Dracane

joshisanonymous wrote: »

If Crushing Shock didn't need to be nerfed, then why has it recently become the sole DPS ability for a large number of PvP builds? When every other dueler seems to be running a build centered on using nothing but Crushing Shock for DPS, there's gotta be something up with it.

Because there is no other option ?
Ranged magical DPS' rely on crushing shock, there is no other option. And crushing shock does not give us compareable DPS, that melee DPS's can do.

Crushing shock already got nerfed, since it is not affected by flawless dawnbreaker anymore. They should have increased the damage to balance it, but they decide to decrease it even further -.- this is ridiculous and it's making me angry.

RoyJade

Crushing shock may have deserved a nerf, but sorcerers need a serious buff in pve. In pvp, they are more or less fine, but in pve, with CS nerf, they barely have half the dps of a NB…

Xeniph

RoyJade wrote: »

Crushing shock may have deserved a nerf, but sorcerers need a serious buff in pve. In pvp, they are more or less fine, but in pve, with CS nerf, they barely have half the dps of a NB…

Wait!... So a NB can get twice the dps a Sorc can, if both are using CS?

All joking aside, if you want to compare classes to classes, you have to leave weapon choice out of it. If you want to bring weapon choice into the discussion, you have to include everyone equally.

What I am hearing is more of a complain about a change in your preferred playstyle. It really has nothing to do with your chosen class.

Also, when spouting DPS comparisons, you should include encounters that the system is designed around. IE.. The system generally accepts that melee will have to stop dps on a boss during certain phases to avoid typical melee wiping abilities, whereas ranged doesn't normally need to stop, to move.

DPS comparisons where neither parthy has to move to avoid these mechanics will indeed result in a scewed result, since melee damage is designed for more burst than sustained do to less dps windows comparatively.

OtarTheMad

Joy_Division wrote: »

I really wish sorcerers would stop claiming ownership of this skill.

Every magicka based DPS from every class and their mother used this skill because it blows away every other alternative.

Really not hard to figure out when people stop viewing the game through the biased lens of their own DPS.

Agreed but the difference to me is other classes have other options for DPS... Sorcs really don't. That's why you see more Sorcs upset.

RoyJade

Comparing weapon by weapon will take too much time, but it should be interesting.
I only consider here the pool speciality : either stamina and magicka. And with both template, our test with my guildmate say that magicka NB is far more stronger than magicka sorc. And magicka DK and templar are more powerful than sorc too.
For stamina, NB seem to be the best dps class, then templar and DK. Sorc are again the weakest. Same as magicka, the most poweful move sorc have is a weapon ability spamming, when another class have either class ability spamming or rotation between class and weapon move. Sorcerers seem to don't have any very good pve dps moves...
All our test where against some vet dungeons and trials bosses (the gargoyle from Spindle and the third boss of AA, mostly), with efficient tank and healer to take care of all the details but placement.

XEVENEX

So much ignorance in this thread. If you want a ranged Magica build you have two options, crushing shock, or crushing shock. Instead of giving us more options they nerf the only one we have.

Do you know what I was doing last night? Weaving fragments with light attacks. It felt almost as bad as it sounds, and ironically, it is countered by the very build I was trying to get away from, not to mention how dangerous it would be vs any form of reflect. There is absolutely nothing else in the game worth weaving, thats the problem, not flippin crushing shock.

Dimillian

Well, it got nerfed and Dawnbreaker does not make it OP anymore, but you know that surge will get you're 10% back, and more.

Morvul

Dimillian wrote: »

Well, it got nerfed and Dawnbreaker does not make it OP anymore, but you know that surge will get you're 10% back, and more.

why would I use surge?
Entropy gives me the same buff to spelldamage, and a whole host of other benefits. incidentally - entropy is available to all classes.
And unlike crushing shock, all magicka classes USE entropy.

So:
Sorc is the only class who HAS an alternative to entropy, but the sorc skill is weaker - so they will use entropy just like ever other class
All classes except for sorc have some alternative DPS-Spam skill to crushing shock - so guess what: it's mostly sorcs using crushing shock, despite all classes having access to it.
(admittedly, most of those CS alternatives are melee ranged - but sorc does not have anything at all)

meaglar

Joy_Division wrote: »

I really wish sorcerers would stop claiming ownership of this skill.

Every magicka based DPS from every class and their mother used this skill because it blows away every other alternative.

Really not hard to figure out when people stop viewing the game through the biased lens of their own DPS.

Correct me if I am wrong but, I do not see anyone using CS in PVE unless they are sorcerers. That is the case because sorcerers do not have anything better than CS, whereas other classes have better things so they do not use CS. And that is sad, the lowest DPS class has to use a skill which is not desirable by other classes... And that skill got nerfed.

Coming to PVP on the other hand, if sorcs needs to be nerfed in PVP (I say if, because I did not try PVP in PTS), just do it... just find the balance... But in a proper way...

See, game is not only PVP, but even more PVE. Sorcerers are already at the bottom in PVE, so find the proper way to give them better PVE abilities, while balancing the PVP...

Thanks all I ask for...

Snit

Crushing Shock is very good in PvP due to the added CC. It would make sense if the other morph did more damage, so PvE players could choose it.

And that, by the way, is exactly what the tooltips currently say, and what the 1.62 patch notes implied. It just doesn't work that way in game. It may be a bug.

DeLindsay

meaglar wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but, I do not see anyone using CS in PVE unless they are sorcerers. That is the case because sorcerers do not have anything better than CS, whereas other classes have better things so they do not use CS. And that is sad, the lowest DPS class has to use a skill which is not desirable by other classes... And that skill got nerfed.

Alright I'll correct you. EVERYONE using CS in PvE end game DPS that's a Magicka DPS build. The #1 ST DPS DK build in the game right now on Live 1.5.8 is a CS build (1.6-1.7K). The 2nd highest possible ST DPS in the game right now is a NB CS build (1.4-1.6K). After that it gets a little dodgy but it's currently looking like 2H Templar is 3rd with 1.2-1.3K and Sorc is right on their heels with either 2H or CS build. Also Templar can pull 1.2K with CS if built correctly.

We all use CS for 3 reasons. It's has the best Magicka return when used in conjunction with Elemental Drain since it counts as 3 hits per attack. It is currently the highest sustained DPS "spam ability" (for DK/NB). Lastly it's a ranged interrupt that is absolutely required for certain fights like going upstairs in HR after the first Boss. The 10% nerf makes no sense from a PvE perspective. You don't nerf an ability just because it's the FOTM, you nerf it because it's doing more damage than intended or is being exploited in some way, neither of which are happening atm.

For PvP they already reduced it to only count as 1 projectile instead of 3 against flappity flaps, which is fine. And it's not like it's OMGWTFPWNBBQ type of damage in PvP, especially with Shields being the FOTM there. Snipe does what, 8x the damage that CS does? Hell my Funnel Health can hit just as hard as CS in PvP.

meaglar

DeLindsay wrote: »

Alright I'll correct you. EVERYONE using CS in PvE end game DPS that's a Magicka DPS build. The #1 ST DPS DK build in the game right now on Live 1.5.8 is a CS build (1.6-1.7K). The 2nd highest possible ST DPS in the game right now is a NB CS build (1.4-1.6K). After that it gets a little dodgy but it's currently looking like 2H Templar is 3rd with 1.2-1.3K and Sorc is right on their heels with either 2H or CS build. Also Templar can pull 1.2K with CS if built correctly.

We all use CS for 3 reasons. It's has the best Magicka return when used in conjunction with Elemental Drain since it counts as 3 hits per attack. It is currently the highest sustained DPS "spam ability" (for DK/NB). Lastly it's a ranged interrupt that is absolutely required for certain fights like going upstairs in HR after the first Boss. The 10% nerf makes no sense from a PvE perspective. You don't nerf an ability just because it's the FOTM, you nerf it because it's doing more damage than intended or is being exploited in some way, neither of which are happening atm.

For PvP they already reduced it to only count as 1 projectile instead of 3 against flappity flaps, which is fine. And it's not like it's OMGWTFPWNBBQ type of damage in PvP, especially with Shields being the FOTM there. Snipe does what, 8x the damage that CS does? Hell my Funnel Health can hit just as hard as CS in PvP.

Thanks for your proper feedback. At this point I can only say, my experience is not matching with what you say, but I cannot proove you are wrong. So we can agree on disagreement.

From PVE point of view:

Let's assume nerfing CS effects all of the classes (just assumption), I wonder; do you agree that sorcerers are having lowest DPS among classes, whereas they are aslo not the good tanks nor the good healers? If you disagree, fine, I would like to hear your counter argument. But if you agree, nerfing CS should effect the lowest DPS class the most (as CS will be a bigger percentage of already low DPS). So the lowest will be even lower.

I gave my opinion about PVP, do what ever it takes to find the balance...
On the other hand, do you have the opinion about PVE, that choosing any class should be as fine as any other?

DeLindsay

meaglar wrote: »

From PVE point of view:

Let's assume nerfing CS effects all of the classes (just assumption), I wonder; do you agree that sorcerers are having lowest DPS among classes, whereas they are aslo not the good tanks nor the good healers? If you disagree, fine, I would like to hear your counter argument. But if you agree, nerfing CS should effect the lowest DPS class the most (as CS will be a bigger percentage of already low DPS). So the lowest will be even lower.

I gave my opinion about PVP, do what ever it takes to find the balance...
On the other hand, do you have the opinion about PVE, that choosing any class should be as fine as any other?

On Live 1.5.8 I would say yes that Sorc is the lowest DPS, at least if they are using a Magicka build. Sorc/Templar with a CS build are pretty close, maybe less than 1K apart, pretty much the same as NB/DK being about 1K apart with a CS build. For 2H it's a little more difficult to say for sure as it has only become strong very recently and not many have adopted it yet.

I don't at all agree that everyone should be the same at anything, I'm always a proponent for unique builds/playstyles but there will ALWAYS be FOTM builds in MMO's. I'm not sure how reducing CS's dmg by 10% remotely balances PvP. Snipe, as one of the most popular Stamina DPS abilities, does many times more damage than CS could ever do. I've never heard ANYONE complain they just got ganked by a Crushing Shock build.

Sorcs are fine Healers/Tanks if played by good Players but I certainly agree there's room for improvement for both Roles. 1.6 is changing many things and it's possible that Spell Damage + Magicka stacking is why ZoS is nerfing so many things in 1.6.1 and 1.6.2. If you haven't been on PTS since 1.6.2 to check out what they did to Glyphs, you might want to bring some tissues. It's becoming clear that the Champion System is a mask for a huge "rebalance", i.e. massive nerf to how we've all been playing since launch.

ZRage

Compare DPS of the crushing shock to venom arrow you will know why it was nerfed. 10% nerf isn't that much really, crushing shock was and still is one of the best single target abilities in the game.

florian.billeb16_ESO

Maybe, you have right, but it's "more" than just a nerf 1.6

1) 10 % on crushing shock
2) 8 (previous 13 %) for war guild ultimate (no more with staff)
3) No possibility to have entropy + critical surge together
4) No possibility to have a potion + damage spell + entropy together
5) Venom arrow + passif medium armor it's 12 % more damage, nothing in light armor
...

Digiman

Crushing shock CC ability is worthless unless the target is spamming abilities with cast time, and by the time a person actually figures out your pattern for CS they will move on to instants that do more damage. There was no other range for Destruction staff users for ranged damaged, it was either get into melee range or sit back and spam an ability.

Honestly I am giving up on Sorcerers and ZoS efforts "fix" them is just outright break the class and playstyle into leather for stamina melee, heavy armor to survive PvP and relying on other skill lines to get the job done.

I have no clue what Wrobel direction for Sorcerers are, but with the PTS notes as a guide its going to be a broken one.

DeLindsay

ZRage wrote: »

Compare DPS of the crushing shock to venom arrow you will know why it was nerfed. 10% nerf isn't that much really, crushing shock was and still is one of the best single target abilities in the game.

That's the worst comparison I've ever seen. You're using a DoT to compare to a direct damage ability. The only thing they have in common is the interrupt. Snipe (even as a base ability) does more damage than CS with no stats and is a more accurate ability to compare with CS, even though it has a cast time. Physical abilities however scale MUCH better with increased Stamina & Weapon Damage than Spells do with Magicka & Spell Damage. They kind of have to or Healing would be stupidly OP.

I agree that for Magicka DPS Crushing Shock is one of the best ST abilities in the game, but why does that automatically mean it's ok for ZoS to nerf it out of the blue? Like I said before, literally nobody EVER has been ganked by a Crushing Shock build in PvP. Is it a strong ability, yes, is it OP like a few other abilities are in PvP, not remotely i.e. the nerf makes no sense. If ZoS would like to pop in and give us a valid reason for why they nerfed it then we could have a better debate but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Jahosefat

It's ok guys, it's my fault. They are just going through and nerfing all the abilities I have on my live DPS bar. Was I doing something wrong Zos?