Multiple horses of the same type

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

o i'm not contending that. just an observation. i keep seeing the same two arguments back and forth but presented in different ways so figured i would throw a little something into the mix Im bored

Gotcha, np im just trying to clarify that I indeed spent over a million gold that, had I known, I would NOT have spent. I would have bought ALL imperial horses and fed them to max in all three stats on all 8 toons and been out 23 gold rather than over 1 million gold.

The "counter arguments" are, well I didn't spend that much so you shouldn't worry about it. and
Gold is easy to get 1 million gold is nothing.

Not very good counter arguments imo.

bowmanz607

i have heard from my guild mates that if you have you bought the speed horse, for instance, and fed it for the 50 days that you will get the extra bonus speed (up to 60 instead of 50). I dont not know if this is something that has recently been implemented or will hit before 1.6 goes live or if it was just a discussion that my guild had with the devs. But i just recently had a discussion about this. If this is true, then i dont see a problem with the money that was spent if you still get bonuses for having purchased the better horses.

Merlin13KAGL

Divinius wrote: »

I'm aware of how the horses work. You may not have noticed, but the "helpful reply" you quoted was also mine.

I know I didn't waste the money I spent upgrading the horses. But I have the Imperial Edition. I could have upgraded 1G horses instead, and while I would have been limited to a max of 50 capacity (instead of the 60 the Draft horses gave me), it would have saved the 42,700 gold cost of the base horse. This is actually exactly what I am currently doing for my 4th character (who had no horses) in preparation for the update.

It remains to be seen if the extra 10 stat points from the advanced base horses actually will carry over. The initial blurb from the devs regarding the system indicated that it should, but that's not how it worked as of the 1.6.0 update. I didn't get to test 1.6.2, and they aren't going to copy the NA characters over for 1.6.4, so I still don't know if it works. I'm assuming that by the time 1.6.x goes live, it will work as intended.

If so, then yes, that 42,700 gold wasn't entirely wasted. It will get me 10 extra stat points that I would have had to pay 2500 gold for, over the course of 10 days, to get if I had waited until after the update.

I'm on your side here. I've been the one arguing that no one is "losing" anything. I'm just saying that, yes, I paid 200k for things that will be essentially given out for free after the update. As I also said, I don't mind, because the update is giving us so much of a benefit that I can quickly forget about the "wasted" 200k.

@Divinius, yes, I was aware that was also your reply. It's part of the reason I was somewhat baffled by your statement about $ lost.

As I understand it, the base bonuses are going to count after all, so you should effectively get your full benefit in the end.

I do understand what you're saying by leveling 3 Imperials and shelling out an additional $7500 (for the extra +10's) vs $128k.

Foresight makes this sort of thing impossible. It's like earning VP's before they reduced the leveling requirement, or one of a dozen other things. Maxing enchant before they dialed it down.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Just because you view your time as worthless doesn't mean we all do. Duplicate horses will become redundant meaning a new player will spend 42k for one black horse that I spent 336k. Same goes for all my spotted and brown horses.

This is well over 1 million gold that I invested that a new person doesn't and they will still get the same 3 computers.

What, pray tell, would you be buying with your extra $1,000,000 gold?

You paid more in principle. Fine.

Your end results (functionality) is the same.

Oh, kelly. I hardly view my time as worthless. Here's the short version:

• You get to keep your horses and their stats.
• They won't be grandfathering your funds used to get said horses.
• New players, will also not be receiving a $1,000,000 refund. The playing field remains level.
• See above about the impossibility of foresite.
• Be upset. Don't be upset.
• My time is valuable. Dead horse is dead. This is absolutely not worth getting that stirred up about.

Good luck with your protest. I refuse to suffer from horse-remorse. (I'm losing hybrid 25/25 horses, too, just in case you wondered.)

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

[*] New players, will also not be receiving a $1,000,000 refund. The playing field remains level.

New players didn't put 1,000,000 into horses that are now redundant.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

i have heard from my guild mates that if you have you bought the speed horse, for instance, and fed it for the 50 days that you will get the extra bonus speed (up to 60 instead of 50). I dont not know if this is something that has recently been implemented or will hit before 1.6 goes live or if it was just a discussion that my guild had with the devs. But i just recently had a discussion about this. If this is true, then i dont see a problem with the money that was spent if you still get bonuses for having purchased the better horses.

This is not true. If it is then I'm sure all you would have to do is "train" 10 more times and you end up with the same stats without spending the 1 mill.

bowmanz607

no you cant train past 50. this benefit, to my understanding, is that only those that have purchased the horse with the extra benefit and have fully trained that horse in that stat will receive the extra 10 points. this is not something that is trainable when 1.6 hits.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

no you cant train past 50. this benefit, to my understanding, is that only those that have purchased the horse with the extra benefit and have fully trained that horse in that stat will receive the extra 10 points. this is not something that is trainable when 1.6 hits.

Where's the ZoS confirmation or PTS Screenshot because I don't believe that.

If that is so then does it apply only to max fed specialized horses or can I buy a specialized horse now and it will add an extra 10/10/10% permanently to that toon at which time you could level 50 more points.

If it IS true and is the later then I will stop pestering right now and fill in the holes of the few specialized horses I don't have on my 8 toons.

If it's not true, which I suspect it isn't and is just a rumour, then I want my 1 million gold back please and thank you.

bowmanz607

from my understanding it only applies to a horse that is already maxed out and is specialized. for instance, if you bougt a speed horse the only way to get the 60 is to max out feeding in speed before 1.6 goes live (which is likely monday from what i hear.) I can get a confirmation on this when i get out of class and home between 6-7pmEST. I will post here as soon as i find out and will let you know if it is a rumor, something that was recently implemented, or will be implemented before 1.6 goes live. if it is official i will provided substantive feedback on where to find the information.

Divinius

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

This is well over 1 million gold that I invested that a new person doesn't and they will still get the same 3 computers.

Now see, right there you appear to be grossly over-estimating your "loss".

There's no way you spent over a million gold on horses that are now obsolete. You'd have had to buy 24 horses at 42,700 to hit the 1 million mark. Keep in mind that you can't count the first horse of each type that you bought, because a new player still has to buy it at least once if they want the skin. So you'd have had to buy 27 horses. Unless you have multiple accounts, that's more horses than anyone could possibly need.

If you honestly have purchased THAT many horses, then you must either have so much money that you are pooping gold coins in the game (in which case, you likely already have anything you could possibly want to spend gold on, and hence, don't need the "compensation" you are crying for), or you horribly failed to properly prioritize where you spent your gold, in which case you don't deserve to get any of it back.

bowmanz607

Divinius wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

This is well over 1 million gold that I invested that a new person doesn't and they will still get the same 3 computers.

Now see, right there you appear to be grossly over-estimating your "loss".

There's no way you spent over a million gold on horses that are now obsolete. You'd have had to buy 24 horses at 42,700 to hit the 1 million mark. Keep in mind that you can't count the first horse of each type that you bought, because a new player still has to buy it at least once if they want the skin. So you'd have had to buy 27 horses. Unless you have multiple accounts, that's more horses than anyone could possibly need.

If you honestly have purchased THAT many horses, then you must either have so much money that you are pooping gold coins in the game (in which case, you likely already have anything you could possibly want to spend gold on, and hence, don't need the "compensation" you are crying for), or you horribly failed to properly prioritize where you spent your gold, in which case you don't deserve to get any of it back.

although i do not agree that people should not get a refund, i would have to disagree. it is very possible that someone spends a mill on horses. figure 3 horses per toon over 8 toons and haveing to feed all of them to max level. so 8x3=24, 24x42700=1024800. then feeding 250x 50=12500, 12500x24=300000. 1024800+300000=1324800. (hope my math is right lol)

Divinius

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

This is well over 1 million gold that I invested that a new person doesn't and they will still get the same 3 computers.

Now see, right there you appear to be grossly over-estimating your "loss".

There's no way you spent over a million gold on horses that are now obsolete. You'd have had to buy 24 horses at 42,700 to hit the 1 million mark. Keep in mind that you can't count the first horse of each type that you bought, because a new player still has to buy it at least once if they want the skin. So you'd have had to buy 27 horses. Unless you have multiple accounts, that's more horses than anyone could possibly need.

If you honestly have purchased THAT many horses, then you must either have so much money that you are pooping gold coins in the game (in which case, you likely already have anything you could possibly want to spend gold on, and hence, don't need the "compensation" you are crying for), or you horribly failed to properly prioritize where you spent your gold, in which case you don't deserve to get any of it back.

although i do not agree that people should not get a refund, i would have to disagree. it is very possible that someone spends a mill on horses. figure 3 horses per toon over 8 toons and haveing to feed all of them to max level. so 8x3=24, 24x42700=1024800. then feeding 250x 50=12500, 12500x24=300000. 1024800+300000=1324800. (hope my math is right lol)

You can't count the feedings. At least, not all of them -- only redundant stats. This is something I think a lot of people are failing to realize. The feedings still have to happen. You can't get to 60, 60, 60 on a new character without spending ( 250 * 60 * 3 ) = 45,000 gold. Per character.

The only money that ends up being "wasted" is the 42,700 spent on the base horses, after the first of each type (which a new player would still need to buy to get the skin). And as others have pointed out, you can't even count all of that, since it's still getting you an extra 10 stat points up front (worth 2500 gold), so basically, you can only count 40,200 per horse. Also, if you have more than one horse with the same stats, on the same character that gold was wasted too. But IMO, you already wasted that gold when you made a redundant horse.

Ultimately, anyone complaining about this to the point of demanding compensation loses my respect for one very important reason:

You are suffering NO LOSS. Nothing is being taken away from you. You are just bent out of shape because other people are being given something you paid for.

I'm sorry, but while you can feel free to be irked about it, your are being ridiculous if you feel entitled to any form of compensation.

bowmanz607

my only point is it is very possible to spend over 1mil on horses that are not redundant even w/o the food.

Divinius

But Kelly didn't. From page 2 of this very thread:

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have 8 black 8 white and 2 or more of various other horses. That is over 1 million gold. If you think that is petty you need to rethink life.

As I said, can't count the first of each type. 7 + 7 + 2 = 16. 16 * 40,200 = 643,200.

While a decent amount of gold, it's not "over a million".

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Divinius wrote: »

But Kelly didn't. From page 2 of this very thread:

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have 8 black 8 white and 2 or more of various other horses. That is over 1 million gold. If you think that is petty you need to rethink life.

As I said, can't count the first of each type. 7 + 7 + 2 = 16. 16 * 40,200 = 643,200.

While a decent amount of gold, it's not "over a million".

Now add in reading comprehension and observe the words or more which indicates 3 - 7 of some horse types. e.g. 6 Pinto horses and 5 Light Brown horses.

bowmanz607

yes i also made this point earlier in the forum. also that the white horses dont count cause they are imperial. again, i am only saying that it is very possible for a person to have spent over a mil. in fact, many of my guild mates have done just that.

bowmanz607

and i think what kelly is getting at is that fact that if it is indeed a cap at 50, then he/she would have spent money only on the cheap brown horse and got the same stats as spending 42,700. although i do understand this issue and think it is a viable complaint, i do not think compensation to everyone for spending the extra money is reasonable. especially b/c the economy would collapse in ESO.

Divinius

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

But Kelly didn't. From page 2 of this very thread:

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have 8 black 8 white and 2 or more of various other horses. That is over 1 million gold. If you think that is petty you need to rethink life.

As I said, can't count the first of each type. 7 + 7 + 2 = 16. 16 * 40,200 = 643,200.

While a decent amount of gold, it's not "over a million".

Now add in reading comprehension and observe the words or more which indicates 3 - 7 of some horse types. e.g. 6 Pinto horses and 5 Light Brown horses.

Sorry. I don't generally think of "2 or more" as being equivalent to "eleven".

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Divinius wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

But Kelly didn't. From page 2 of this very thread:

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have 8 black 8 white and 2 or more of various other horses. That is over 1 million gold. If you think that is petty you need to rethink life.

As I said, can't count the first of each type. 7 + 7 + 2 = 16. 16 * 40,200 = 643,200.

While a decent amount of gold, it's not "over a million".

Now add in reading comprehension and observe the words or more which indicates 3 - 7 of some horse types. e.g. 6 Pinto horses and 5 Light Brown horses.

Sorry. I don't generally think of "2 or more" as being equivalent to "eleven".

2 or more of each kind 3-7 =/= 11 it is a range not a number.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

and i think what kelly is getting at is that fact that if it is indeed a cap at 50, then he/she would have spent money only on the cheap brown horse and got the same stats as spending 42,700. although i do understand this issue and think it is a viable complaint, i do not think compensation to everyone for spending the extra money is reasonable. especially b/c the economy would collapse in ESO.

I agree, therefore only those who want the money back should be compensated not the ones who stated they don't.

charlmgn

It appears some players see the change in the way mounts are managed as some kind of "taking away" from them something that they had, while giving those nefarious, undeserving "new" or "cheap" players who either weren't around or didn't feel the need to spend a lot of gold on mounts, something they shouldn't have. I know there are strong feelings on this topic, especially on the part of those who somehow feel that ZOS is "cheating" them, but maybe I can point out a few things that can ease the pain without sounding patronizing or, at the very least, missing the point.

1. If you purchased one horse for one character, or 3 horses for 8 characters (I can't imagine people buying more than that for any real reason other than doubling it to play on both NA and EU megaservers) prior to 1.6, you received what you purchased, from 1 to 24 mounts in the example I gave. And whether you spent 1g for one horse, or ~42k gold each for 24 horses, you received what you purchased, you got the use of what you purchased, and you will continue to get the use of what you purchased. That part won't change. No one is taking that away from anyone, since all players will still have access to what they've purchased.

2. ZOS, being the great company that it is, has listened to its membership. For the past year, we’ve been asking for them to make mounts and pets accountwide, so thanks for listening; we got what we asked for. With 1.6, all of our mounts and pets are accountwide, meaning we no longer have to continue making unnecessary mount purchases. It might have happened before you bought yours, but for some of you, it didn’t. Even so, you still aren’t losing out.

3. Those who previously purchased multiple mounts had the option to train all mounts at the same time, but with 1.6 that will no longer be the case. If you wanted to train one each in speed, stamina and carrying capacity, all you needed to do was buy enough horses and enough stable space and you could happily max 3 horses in no more than 50 days. Again referring to my maximum example above of 3 horses for 8 characters, that player now not only has a mount of his choice (of the ones he has purchased) on any and all of his 8 characters (same as everyone else), but since the training was conducted on all of his horses—and mount training is transferred to the character in 1.6—that player also has the benefit of ALL THREE of the training benefits on every character riding any mount, even mounts yet to be purchased. No one else will have this benefit, since they either didn’t train multiple horses on multiple characters, or just weren’t around to do it. And what’s even more sad for these people is that, since training has been transferred to the characters, they only have the option to train their characters in one area each day. This means that all characters not already maxed out will take 150 days to train in 50 slots for each of the three areas. And since ZOS is increasing the maximum training slots, it will take longer than that.

4. How any player chooses to spend his money or gold is his own choice. The items are there for the use of the players, and obviously those who spend more in one area see more value in that area. A player who purchased 3 mounts for 8 characters obviously saw (gold) value in having the benefits those mounts offered his characters for his playstyle and in-game affluence. Another character could have seen similar (money) value in the same way, either purchasing the $15 mount or the Imperial Edition upgrade. This player would have gotten much the same benefits while spending no more than 24g in game. He would also have had to train multiple horses in the same manner, and would have been able to do so at the same . This player also will no longer be able to train multiple horse traits at once with 1.6. The key here is each player purchased something of value, whether through gold or money, and received value from it that is not being taken away.

5. The most-repeated sticking point I see in many of the complaints associated with this issue seems to be that new players will have “free” access to what long-term players have spent so much time and gold to obtain, just because they will start playing the game after this change takes place. Above, I’ve already mentioned some of the drawbacks associated with joining ESO this late. But what new players definitely won’t have access to is the ability to go back and play under the pre-1.6 rules and get the benefits that we long-term players have been enjoying for months. They won’t be able to get a mount that is already trained, because they weren’t here to train it. They won’t be able to train a character’s mounts in multiple areas, because they weren’t here when that was possible. They won’t have the Senche mount that’s coming FREE for players with 300 paid days by 3/16/2015, because they don’t have a time machine to bring them back so that it’s possible. Regardless of all of these points, it really doesn’t matter what anyone else gets, as long as it’s available to others who are playing at the same time and they meet the same criteria.

I didn’t post this to add Rough Nightwood to the flames, so I hope readers can take this in the spirit in which I’ve written it. If you honestly feel wronged by this transition, then I seriously recommend that you look to other outlets for entertainment. All MMOs go through changes. If they didn’t, people would get bored and stop playing. The fact that ZOS has listened to our requests—and delivered—makes me want to stay. Thanks for reading.

@charlmgn/@CadwellsGhost

Sheuib

Hey kelly.medleyb14_ESO nice to see you are still at this a few days later and a few extra pages on the same argument. I hope you are not completely miserable. But, like I said on page one. Don't let me interrupt your misery. Keep at it and maybe you can start complaining about the time spent on this forum too.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

I see it that way because it is taking away something. My time. Time spent getting new skins for all my toons that is now just given away.

I'd like my gold back please as it represents my time which is valuable unlike others time here who don't value their time.

MorHawk

Sheuib wrote: »

Keep at it and maybe you can start complaining about the time spent on this forum too.

This. My favorite part though is the the thrice-repeated injunction that only those who are complaining should get compensated. Without even a trace of hyperbole, such a policy would shut this game down. Hard. Brain, meet mouth (or fingers in this case). Might be an idea to get acquainted.

Merlin13KAGL

MorHawk wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

Keep at it and maybe you can start complaining about the time spent on this forum too.

This. My favorite part though is the the thrice-repeated injunction that only those who are complaining should get compensated. Without even a trace of hyperbole, such a policy would shut this game down. Hard. Brain, meet mouth (or fingers in this case). Might be an idea to get acquainted.

@MorHawk , @Sheuib , you do realize that someone who has been on the forums a shorter amount of time with the same level of complaint has a clear advantage over those that have complained more for longer, right?

I think, to be fair, since the gold seems to be the key issue that is brought up (and the time as it relates to collecting the gold)...I think OP should get a full refund.

Full refund, start with no horses, and then you have your $1,000,000,000 "advantage" over the new players you're so insistent is there. (We'll even refund your feed costs.)

There is no act of logic that is going to make this ring true. I commend the efforts of everyone here who has tried to spell it out.

EDIT: ZoS, please roll back the /played value to compensate for the "time lost," as well.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

In spite of your insidious attempts to mock my lost pay time I continue to expect a full refund for horses that I paid for that will become redundant. Thanks ZoS.

MorHawk

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

In spite of your insidious attempts to mock my lost pay time I continue to expect a full refund for horses that I paid for that will become redundant. Thanks ZoS.

infoub17_ESO22

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I don't understand why people keep getting mad about all the mones they wasted on gear and in this case horses. We all knew that 1.6 was going to be a crazy change and we have known this since it was announced at the end of the summer. Ofcourse these changes mean respecting and losing out on things you have done in the game. To think otherwise is ludacris. This is a fundamental change to the game which means the whole game is changing. To expect them to track how much money ppl spent on horses and gear and all that nonesense is just illogical. Who has the time for that when you are basically tearing how the game operates and starting over. We all lose out on That sort of progress but it is ultimately for the best. 6 months from now people won't even think twice about it.

It never stops being entertaining reading how some people haven't got a clue when they get phucked out of hard earned game cash /real life time/real money. It might be ok for you to take it up the butt from zos, but there are others who don't let this happen to them. It's called having balls.

bowmanz607

No some people just don't care as much about losing a little extra cash for the big picture of the game. Also, now people with 3 horses don't need to train for the full amount of days which would amount to almost a half years worth of work.