Hybrid builds and hybrid sets: something has to change before 1.6 goes live

Jar_Ek

Tbh hybrid will be hit relatively hard by the champion system anyway as they essentially need to split their points at least two ways. So minimising the hurt elsewhere would be nice.

AssaultLemming

The more I think about it the more damage =(mag + stam) / 2 makes sense. Everybody wins with this formula and stats become much more about how often you can use magicka or stamina skills and less about stacking stats for damage.
You would still have to choose between weapon damage and spell damage but the difference is not as extreme, especially because you have two separate stat pools to draw on so hybrids would become an excellent choice for sustain.
This is probably the only way hybrid builds could survive. At the moment on pts hybrid builds are dead.

Helluin

Indeed.

As I wrote in the opening post:

... this tweak would make happy a greater number of players or simply every player.

This because, as you correctly wrote, not just hybrids would become viable but every build would gain benefits from this and then we would really see a lot more diversification amongst builds.
No matter the multiplier, devs would surely find the best way for it to be balanced.
An hybrid build would never have the spike or burst damage of a pure build but simply more utilities with a support role or sustain, as you wrote, according to the skills used.

Costismaros

Way of arena to everyone .

Wolfenbelle

Seems to me that builds which balance the three main stats should, logically, be the best build to give strength to weapons, spells and survivability. But we always have had to sacrifice strength in at least one of them. I think 1.6 makes this situation worse. I don't like it, but don't know a solution.

Jar_Ek

Well a solution would be diminishing returns for damage / effectiveness, such that max stat stacking became less effective with increasing maximums for increasing damage, healing, or damage shielding - but still provided a higher resource pool... meaning that more abilities could be used. This would be a bit like gaining slightly less stat per point put in.

Dredlord

There is a fundamental balancing fail that happened somewhere, perhaps it was before 1.6 but was amplified by removing the softcaps.

You never tie a single stat to both a damage ability and a defensive ability without capping one or the other.

Seen over and over in other MMO's (ex. extreme life tap builds, more damage = more healing = OP) sorc magica build, extreme damage and shielding.

I don't disagree with building for high damage you just shouldn't get huge survivability for free in doing so.

I am so disappointed to see the death of hybrid builds in 1.6

WillhelmBlack

My VR8 Templar vamp has 36 health, 10 magicka, 10 stamina. If anything he's way OP and charges ultimates for fun on the PTS. Way more powerful than he currently is in 1.5.

Dredlord

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

My VR8 Templar vamp has 36 health, 10 magicka, 10 stamina. If anything he's way OP and charges ultimates for fun on the PTS. Way more powerful than he currently is in 1.5.

please share your build, I do have some doubts since there is only template characters atm. Prism is broken in 1.6.1 and ultimate generation is miserably slow.

WillhelmBlack

S&B

Caltrops or Blazing Spear or Rapid Manoeuvre
Defensive Stance
Puncturing Sweep
Radiant Oppression
Purifying Ritual

Bats (Not tried) or Meteor (Awesome)

2H

Rally
Blazing Shield
Critical Rush
Carve or Executioner (both work well, I edge towards Carve for ulti regen)
Repentance

Flawless Dawnbreaker

2 x Light (head and belt) 5 x Medium armour
3 pc Ashen Grip
5 pc Willows Path
Mixture of Divines and Impenetrable
Armour enchants are a mixture of whatever I find, probably quite even though.

Warrior Mundus stone.

CP system

10 x Blade

10 x Hardy

10 x Mooncalf

Hope this helps!

Dredlord

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

S&B

Caltrops or Blazing Spear or Rapid Manoeuvre
Defensive Stance
Puncturing Sweep
Radiant Oppression
Purifying Ritual

Bats (Not tried) or Meteor (Awesome)

2H

Rally
Blazing Shield
Critical Rush
Carve or Executioner (both work well, I edge towards Carve for ulti regen)
Repentance

Flawless Dawnbreaker

3 pc Ashen Grip
5 pc Willows Path

Mixture of Divines and Impenetrable

Armour enchants are a mixture of whatever I find, probably quite even though.

Can't remember Mundus stone sorry.

CP system

10 x Blade

10 x Hardy

10 x Mooncalf

Hope this helps!

yes this helps, because I use a similar build with brawler morph on live that I have tried on test.

I went from using 2-3 ultimates per aoe pull on live to Zero ultimate gained in combat on test.

Carve looks to be your only ultimate generation aside from what you get from kills once the fight is over. Is that what you meant by "charges ultimates for fun on the PTS" ? to me it seems far weaker and not nearly as fun.

WillhelmBlack

Prism works fine for me using Radiant oppression then it seems and also using light and heavy attacks not only charge your ultimate but put out a lot more damage than in 1.5. BTW, Carve is totally spammable.

Dredlord

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Prism works fine for me using Radiant oppression then it seems and also using light and heavy attacks not only charge your ultimate but put out a lot more damage than in 1.5. BTW, Carve is totally spammable.

what you are probably seeing is the kill from radiant oppression getting you ultimate.

reflective light and solar barrage are not giving me any ultimate from prism on test since 1.6.1 during my tests yesterday.

BTW, thanks for the heads up on Carve being spammable........

Dredlord

checked on test, I am not getting any ultimate from radiant oppression

Helluin

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Well a solution would be diminishing returns for damage / effectiveness, such that max stat stacking became less effective with increasing maximums for increasing damage, healing, or damage shielding - but still provided a higher resource pool... meaning that more abilities could be used. This would be a bit like gaining slightly less stat per point put in.

It can be a way but the only doubt I have about this is that it would bring back softcaps in another way.
I'm not sure is something doable at this point and, despite what written in a similar topic, I don't consider the removal of softcaps the main problem of hybrid builds for some reasons (but for some issues related to damage shields).

Softcaps are surely involved in the situation in 1.6 for hybrid builds but it's because of the calculation for damage.
Using a different calculation, as we are discussing here, could solve it easily and grants every player to use the build he/she wants to.
As approach infact I prefer to have everyone able to play and build his/her character as he/she wants.

With softcaps it's easier to balance an hybrid build but some other players can't max out completely a stat; now an hybrid build requires more efforts and it's less stronger for sure.
With a common pool and a multiplier (not on every skill imho), this could be solved.

About stacking every attribute point, armor glyph and set bonus on a stat: it's something a player should be able to do without the penatlty of softcaps imho.
There is infact already a bigger penalty than diminishining returns doing so... try to have less health than a certain ammount, then obviously in trials, dsa, veteran dungeons and PvP (not duels) it's obvious that a character would explode.
In PvP, yes, there is the issue of stacking only magicka granting great damage and great defense but it's more related to duels or really small scale encounters.


Speaking about the posts following yours, not just attribute points and sets should be considered but also the armor glyphs (precise info, not a "mixture of whatever" please).
But for the first posts, the other ones are completely OT, thanks anyway for your contribution guys.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Can you pass this on to the team for us ?

Hexyl

A hybrid build can be efficiently i guess. Softcap are deleted, and it's also worth for armor.

A full stamina build vs heavy armor make less damage than magic
A full magic build vs light armor / magic resist make less damage than stam

So it could be usefull to have both. Sure you make less damage than someone have maxed magic/stam in pve. But for pvp, you can adapt to your opponent.

it's just a point of view. I did'nt test the armor resist.

Also, NB mark decrease magic and physic resist.

Helluin

That's for sure mate and I agree.
The main issue is for ultimates and skills scaling only off the highest stat.
In PvE, the way to go is pure stamina or magicka for dmg and healing.

But for this, there are many sets in game that, with the changements to magicka and stamina, don't make much sense.

As I wrote in another topic I started, it would be great also to have a double or multiple builds system so for example a player can more easily fulfil more roles or switch between a PvE build to a PvP one.

Hexyl

Yeah, i'm agree with you. Some mechanics must be changed.

We need more way to build our char.

david.haypreub18_ESO

I don't think Hybrid builds will be viable until they remove damage scaling.