Official Discussion Thread for “Your Guide to ESO Plus™ Premium Membership”

Malpherian

I told you all 6 months ago when I was talking about Their Partnership with Sleeping Giant this game would go B2P or F2P within 6 months to a year, because that's what Sleeping Giant specializes in, B2P and F2P Marketing systems, and while as I posted in that post so long ago, yes they do other things, this is their primary and specialty function concerning their business deals with MMO's/MMORPG's..

Everyone was like "Your stupid Mal "Ensue Flaming", the ceo said he would kill the game before they went F2p, B2P" etc.

Well, Now I get to say I told you so. I do my research and I know wtf I am talking about when it comes to the gaming industry and how things work. If I say something, you can take it to the bank.

Malpherian

Morticide828 wrote: »

Shes hot.

snowsong

Joseph_Nil wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

This being my 1st MMO, I lack experience with the B2P model. From my perspective, those who don't subscribe get a no frills game experience in hopes of enticing them to sub.

The rest of us can go on almost the same as we have all along, apart from whatever is bought with crowns, which I assume (with the inherant risk) are vanity and utility items.

Can anybody explain without the apocalyptic hyperbole why this is so terrible?
Seems neautral to me, not great, not the end of the world.

Ditto

We current ESO subscribers will be getting the ESO PLUS with extra stuff for the same 14.99 a month we are already paying for our subscription? Why is this bad? It sounds like good news!

bbqwolf13b14_ESO1

Now that I had time to really think about this change.

Time for ZOS to GIVE MORE TO THERE BETA testers. This total change of the game, which makes the game I paid for and subbed to, a beta. They knew since quakecom they were going to make changes to the game but didn't tell us, instead they took the sub money from us. In there wisdom, they decided to only give people who paid for the beta only 100 Crowns per month subbed, but if you pay for a sub after game releases which is 1.6, you get 1500 crowns per month. WTF, WE paid for this game to be reimagined (without knowledge) and get less then a month SUBBED in crowns. Are they kidding me? We should get 1500 crowns per month if not more since we had to go thru ALL those bugs and were told this was a finished product. So we get 1000 for 10 months atm, and we should get 15000 crowns atm for subbing for so long. Are we going to have to pay for pvp Imperial City as a DLC which they have been telling us they were going to release but are holding till after 1.6? I don't think we should have too since pvp people have been waiting since release for it. But knowing how this is going to work, ZOS will go after the free money grab. Its a true shame how they are treating everyone who has been paying for this game and wanted it to succeed. I am still on the fence if I will continue to pay or even ever pay. Can we get some reactions from ZOS on this forum page?

Lazrael

Question... when you say that I will gain access to the DLC for the duration of my paid membership, does that mean that I will lose access to it after my payed membership lapses, or that I will still gave access to the DLC released up until the point of the lapse? If its the latter, then I'm fine with it. If its the former, then you are the greediest tools on the planet, and I will never purchase another game with your studio's name on it, if I ever even purchase another game from your publisher.

Can anyone clarify for me?

Or hey! maybe somebody from Zeni will actually jump in on this?

Smaxx

Lazrael wrote: »

Question... when you say that I will gain access to the DLC for the duration of my paid membership, does that mean that I will lose access to it after my payed membership lapses, or that I will still gave access to the DLC released up until the point of the lapse?

It's obviously the latter, but they won't lock any items or skills you've got out of that content. Only the actual zones. But don't forget that you'll get a number of crowns for your month of subscription as well, so you can use those to buy the DLC in case you don't want to continue your sub but still access the game.

You can still consider this an improvement to the current model: Don't pay for a month and they won't even allow you to enter the game.

We don't know prices for crowns so far, but I assume that a subscription will be just slightly more expensive than buying those 1500 crowns on their own. It's more like an icing on the cake for guaranteeing them a more steady income for a specific amount of time.

Seravi

From what I have read, if you sub you have access to the DLC until the sub is expired. You can only access the DLC "without a sub" if you purchase it. So basically if you sub you are "renting" the DLC from them. I will need to see what the DLC prices are vs sub prices to see which is the better deal.

Lazrael

Smaxx wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

Question... when you say that I will gain access to the DLC for the duration of my paid membership, does that mean that I will lose access to it after my payed membership lapses, or that I will still gave access to the DLC released up until the point of the lapse?

It's obviously the latter, but they won't lock any items or skills you've got out of that content. Only the actual zones. But don't forget that you'll get a number of crowns for your month of subscription as well, so you can use those to buy the DLC in case you don't want to continue your sub but still access the game.

You can still consider this an improvement to the current model: Don't pay for a month and they won't even allow you to enter the game.

We don't know prices for crowns so far, but I assume that a subscription will be just slightly more expensive than buying those 1500 crowns on their own. It's more like an icing on the cake for guaranteeing them a more steady income for a specific amount of time.

I see that now. That's alright, I suppose, but only under the assumption that the DLC can be bought outright with your crowns, and doesn't have to be purchased externally with real money. I feel like this should definitely be an option. I just find allowing us access to something then keeping actually owner ship of it behind a series of paywalls a bit of a turnoff.

eventide03b14a_ESO

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

Find out more about the excellent in-game benefits that all ESO Plus members will enjoy in Tamriel Unlimited!

It's become a subscription to the "crown store".

sr383

I think the impact varies dramatically between those who are primarily solo players and those who are playing it as an MMO. As a solo player, what do I care if someone made himself invincible by spending cash (unless it imbalances the justice system, making it such that no is safe)?

It seems to me that the solo players are enjoying the same game as before and aren't being required to pay subscription fees.

shadoza

Having read all the hate, I must say that I am not hating this. It seems like a natural progression. TSW does this and the community is still wonderful.

I have been wanting a store; glad to see it happen. While I do not like the idea of paying for something that is free in the start, I do like the idea of being able to play with my friends that had quit the game because of finances. (They can come back now. ) A couple more changes I would like to see:

A solo version of the group dungeons. I know this is a MMO, but many times I play solo and am gaining a string of quests that are not done because I do not have a group to run the dungeons. If there was a solo version, if no one needs the dungeon, I can run it alone.

I would like to see more repeatable quests. If I am not talented in creating the perfect build, I am not one of the talented, I can still repeat a few quests to bring my skills up to par with the bosses.

shanersimms_ESO

I can't say how disappointed I am to hear this. I had high hopes that once the game was fully brought up to an elders scrolls level (i.e. player housing, spellcrafting, justice system, etc.) and some overall soul and substance was added to Cyrodiil the game would be a hit. Sad to see all the nay-sayers were right even after very clear statements from ZoS:

Leonid Melikhov: Ever since the game’s launch, Elder Scrolls Online has received a fair bit of criticism for monthly-subscription. Do you guys have plans to change that sometime in the future?

Paul D. Sage: No, we don’t have any plans that I am aware of to change it in the future. You know the business model is what the business model is and it allows us to deliver high level content on regular basis right now. So there are no plans that I am aware of.

Leonid Melikhov: The Elder Scrolls Online will be one of the few titles that will have subscription based service. Considering that games like Star Wars the Old Republic started out the same way but went free-to-play since subscription based model didn’t work, why not lean towards more of a free-to-play concept?

Paul D. Sage: You know again, we have no plans to change subscription plans.

Source: gamingbolt.com


Or another good one:

TESO was originally rumored to be a free-to-play title. Now that it has been announced that the game will be subscription-based, do you feel confident that it can compete with the many free-to-play games on the market, especially on next gen consoles?

Paul Sage: Not to sound flippant, but I think people play, and are drawn, to quality games. I'm not saying that free-to-play games aren't quality games, what I mean more to say is that our commitment to our game has a lot of value, for the money that people are going to spend. I also think that, when people see the updates we have coming post-launch, and when they see our commitment to providing that quality service and content, people will see that they are getting a lot of value for the dollar they are spending.

Source: gamereactor


Or how about:

The creators of TESO have had to address the much-debated subscription model at every turn of the game’s development and the team has stood their ground all along the way. Bethesda’s VP of Marketing and PR, Pete Hines, spoke to Games.On about why the company has so much faith in the subscription-based model.

Pete Hines: “What’s going to determine whether or not it succeeds or fails is not really tied to what anyone else has done, it’s tied to ‘do we make a strong enough argument for the value that you get for your fifteen dollars?’. If we’re providing the kind of content people want to see where they’re like ‘This is awesome, I’m having a blast, this new stuff is totally worth it and I’m having fun’, then the subscription totally works. If we’re putting out stuff that doesn’t make a case for it then we have a problem on our hands and we have failed to meet that value proposition.”

Source: gamerant

Failed to meet? Yeap.


Here's one:

Despite the failure of powerful brand-name MMOs including Age of Conan, DC Universe Online, Lord of The Rings Online, The Old Republic, etc. to succeed with strict subscriptions and all adopting free-to-play models (among many other MMOs), Firor is confident that the quality and depth of the game will justify the monthly subscription fee and that The Elder Scrolls Online has no need to jump onto the free-to-play train.

Matt Firor: “The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support – and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch.”


So go ahead and give that big middle finger to all the supporters of ESO thus far. Your company has blatantly lied to its customers, failed to deliver a quality product by your own standards (Hines), and have destroyed something that had the potential to be amazing with your incompetence. All you had to do was make a Skyrim online. You had a frickin color by numbers model in front of you to follow and you still blew it. Garbage. Utter garbage.

x3V1LD34Dx

I am currently playing on the PC but have been waiting for the console version. Once it does come out I will no longer play on my PC. Will there be an ESO plus for console or should I discontinue my subscription?

shanersimms_ESO

ricku1967 wrote: »

@Dark_Dunmer, you said "Pots and Soul Gems are revenue sources for players... you are taking that stream away from them or at least diluting it... not very supportive of your player base" um, if you go back and listen. he said those items in the crown shop are no better than what a player can buy from a vender right now. the potions and gems made by the players are still going to be the strongest and of the highest quality in the game. How exactly is this going to take away revenue from the players when people can go to a vender right now and get potions and soul gems?? and no where did i hear him say the crown shop will have "experience boosters"...the experience boosts will go to the people still paying a sub fee. I could be wrong, but i have watched it twice now and never heard them say that the store will have experience boosters.

Here's the problem and why the crown shop will inevitably f everything up

First off the bonuses: 10% bonus xp and 10% bonus gold. I can't tell you the last time I actually gave a crap about XP or gold. Gold is so easy to get as is and there are no major cash sinks (such as player housing for example) in the game to even spend gold on. Gold is really unimportant to begin with in this game.

With XP, anytime they raise the VR cap you have the majority of active people hitting the new cap in well under a week; generally just a few days. Why would 10% make any real difference here? Ring of Mara anyone? I wore that thing for a day at launch questing with my buddy and then realized it makes only a trivial difference. XP is also too easy to get and soon the level cap will be lowered to 50 when VR ranks are removed. Any XP boost for this game is borderline useless.

The same argument applies to the champion system. Although the CS is great, after seeing it on the PTS I can tell you the benefits are quite modest after the first few points. The vast majority of players will just let these points come naturally and and thus 10% faster is again trivial. The players who do choose to grind CS points (completionists, elitists, etc.) will generally not see the 10% as worth it either. With the bonus I can grind as many CS points in 10 full days of grinding that would have taken me 11 days without the bonus. Is saving that little bit of time at that rate worth $180 a year? Definitely not.

The DLC content may have some value, but this content is going to be coming out much slower than their 2014 pace has been (ZoS' own words), and if it's only optional with more quests than many people won't care. The game already has so many quests between original, Caldwell's Silver, and Caldwell's Gold that why would I pay extra money for more of the same? Furthermore it's a huge slap in the face to those of us who have paid a sub this whole time awaiting new content such as the Dark Brotherhood and Spellcrafting, staples of the ESO franchise, and now we have to pay extra money when they come out to add them on as DLC after we as customers were promised all of this kind of content to be covered with our subscriptions we've been paying this whole time so far? Also, talk about immersion breaking: "For just $12.99 you can add in Spellcrafting to your world of Tamriel!"

So basically, my point is that the benefits of the ESO Plus model are crap. I would bet really good money the amount of people who sign-up and continue on with the ESO Plus sub will quite minimal, especially now that ZoS has shown how much they keep their word to their monthly paying customers.

Since the ESO Plus sub just isn't worth it, ZoS will have to make most of their money via cash shop. How many mounts, vanity pets, hairstyles, and tattoos does the average player really want, especially in terms of having to pay RL money exclusively for these items? This game is not set up with a strong enough foundation to warrant a true item shop, without features such as player housing, ships, custom mount armors, or other large-scale player property type content truly worth customizing. So we're left with the aforementioned character cosmetics, mounts, and vanity pets.

Since the majority of ESO players will find this level of vanity content not worth anything, you now have a system where the game isn't worth paying a sub for, and the vanity items aren't worth buying from the cash shop. So what happens? Well to generate revenue they're going to have to make the cash shop sell popular and desired items (i.e. weapons, armor, crafting resource bonuses to craft items more efficiently/cheaply, and combat changing content such as Spellcrafting DLC) and we have now successfully reached the pay-to-win model.

Thank you once again ZoS. This golf shoe to the face was exactly what your loyal customers were hoping to get early 2015. >.>

Smaxx

The 10% is more aimed at casuals. If you burn through new content within a week you're probably not interested in bigger bonuses either.

Resipsa131

Malpherian wrote: »

Morticide828 wrote: »

Shes hot.

Not anymore

Also what would be the concern of premium players getting mats from the crown shop? Not trying to flame, I enjoy playing the game but don't always have the amount of time necessary to collect mats for potions and whatnot. What I do have is disposable income. I get that you don't want the game to be pay-to-win but what is wrong with pay so you don't have to farm mats?

Rosveen

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Morticide828 wrote: »

Shes hot.

Not anymore

Also what would be the concern of premium players getting mats from the crown shop? Not trying to flame, I enjoy playing the game but don't always have the amount of time necessary to collect mats for potions and whatnot. What I do have is disposable income. I get that you don't want the game to be pay-to-win but what is wrong with pay so you don't have to farm mats?

If you don't have time to gather them, buy them from other players for gold. There's such a thing as in-game economy, let's not ruin it.

Resipsa131

Rosveen wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Morticide828 wrote: »

Shes hot.

Not anymore

Also what would be the concern of premium players getting mats from the crown shop? Not trying to flame, I enjoy playing the game but don't always have the amount of time necessary to collect mats for potions and whatnot. What I do have is disposable income. I get that you don't want the game to be pay-to-win but what is wrong with pay so you don't have to farm mats?

If you don't have time to gather them, buy them from other players for gold. There's such a thing as in-game economy, let's not ruin it.

I want to craft my own though, I guess you mean the mats so that's fine I guess. Is gold really worth that much late game? I have a bunch on my old main

Aerolin_Eltryss

Another thing.. ZOS - you are dealing with elder scrolls - I believe SEPTIMS not Crowns would be the correct name for the currency.

Ninnghizhidda

Just a wild prediction: the whales are coming. Perhaps later than sooner, but I think I can see them far away in the horizon. If you know what I mean ...

Nazon_Katts

Aerolin_Eltryss wrote: »

Another thing.. ZOS - you are dealing with elder scrolls - I believe SEPTIMS not Crowns would be the correct name for the currency.

If it were 3 centuries later, you'd be correct. However, ESO is taking place during the so called Interregnum and Tiber Septim wasn't born yet (yeah I know, but apparently he didn't want to change that).

Shoddycast provided a nice overview of the timeline and how ESO fits in, back when the game released:
http://youtu.be/cAV1F7DAlnU

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Just a wild prediction: the whales are coming. Perhaps later than sooner, but I think I can see them far away in the horizon. If you know what I mean ...

Indeed.

Lazrael

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Aerolin_Eltryss wrote: »

Another thing.. ZOS - you are dealing with elder scrolls - I believe SEPTIMS not Crowns would be the correct name for the currency.

If it were 3 centuries later, you'd be correct. However, ESO is taking place during the so called Interregnum and Tiber Septim wasn't born yet (yeah I know, but apparently he didn't want to change that).

Shoddycast provided a nice overview of the timeline and how ESO fits in, back when the game released:
http://youtu.be/cAV1F7DAlnU

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Just a wild prediction: the whales are coming. Perhaps later than sooner, but I think I can see them far away in the horizon. If you know what I mean ...

Indeed.

Good point. Septims certainly wouldn't be a form of currency at this point in time. But I also don't think that all three alliances would share the same form of currency, and if they did, it would possibly relate to the ancient elves, since all of Tamriel is vying for control of Cyrodiil. Just some food for thought.

Nazon_Katts

Well, in Cyrodiil they spent Alliance Points. So Crowns is at least a step in the right direction, creativity-wise.

Considering Nirncrux currently is the most valuable resource in Tamriel, maybe just calling them Crux would have been more fitting... and showed a sense of humor.

archangel978

I for one stopped playing last month when I saw something like this coming. This game should never of went to console. Greed, Greed and more Greed.

They should of made an Elder Scrolls 6 for console and left Elder Scrolls Online to PC.

joric_nightcloud

So if I am reading this correctly it is basically set up like SWTOR model. I was hoping for a model more like Guild Wars 2, which is Buy to Play. I don't think it will be the death of the game, you still have to pay for the software to play the game, so calling it F2P is inaccurate. F2P format is like Lineage 2, where you literally pay nothing to play the game. Gold-sellers still have to purchase copies(or codes) to do business. We'll see if this model will work, clearly P2P model is no longer feasible in today's economy.

confuuusedub17_ESO

Is there no way the paying/sub players can have their own server?

bebezed_ESO

mamericus wrote: »

And to think I spent so much of my time defending this game... Thanks for the fun while it lasted. I still love the ES franchise and I'll be looking forward to the next ES single player RPG.

^^ This. I am so disappointed. I cancelled my sub with heavy heart. My friends have also cancelled. Why pay for the game now? Also, the fact that you lose access to DLC obtained while under subscription after this whole sorry mess becomes live doesn't really make subscription advantageous.

Too bad. I was one of the long-term testers and I defended this game from the beginning. I can no longer do that. Off to other (and hopefully greener) pastures...

bebezed_ESO

Tyr wrote: »

<snip> they gain players and probably gain revenue with the people that come in and end up being whales or subbing later

The very mention of "whales" is disheartening. It is a hallmark of p2w games.

bebezed_ESO

Brizz wrote: »

This will be GREAT. Don't listen to all the whiners. Free to play will DOUBLE the population, maybe even triple.

...and double the lag, maybe even triple.
#ohjoy

Smaxx

joric_nightcloud wrote: »

So if I am reading this correctly it is basically set up like SWTOR model. I was hoping for a model more like Guild Wars 2, which is Buy to Play. I don't think it will be the death of the game, you still have to pay for the software to play the game, so calling it F2P is inaccurate. F2P format is like Lineage 2, where you literally pay nothing to play the game. Gold-sellers still have to purchase copies(or codes) to do business. We'll see if this model will work, clearly P2P model is no longer feasible in today's economy.

Err, no.

This is exactly like Guild Wars 2. You still have your initial game purchase. You can pay a sub as a "content flatrate" (but that's optional). You're not forced to pay real money to do PvP or any garbage like that.