New provisioning update from ZoS today
Flaminir
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This was announced tonight but buried away on the 'website articles' forum, but it was very useful info on the new provisioning system so thought I'd paste a copy here for people:
MSchroeder mod
10:18PM edited 10:21PM Staff Post
I’d like to take a moment and address some of the questions that have come up in this thread so far. We’re all excited to hear your feedback, and I wanted to allay a few fears. Some of this is information we’ve shared before, but I figured it would be helpful to address as much as possible here.
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1. “What happens to all of my ingredients? How do I get new ingredients I might need?”
Some ingredients will be marked as “Old”. They will no longer be used in Provisioning. However, we’ve set their value to be the same as the price of buying a new ingredient. Grocers will be selling ALL non-rare ingredients, so visiting one is recommended as a one-stop shop for your Provisioning needs. Further, Chefs will be selling all non-rare Food ingredients, and Brewers will be selling all non-rare Drink ingredients. We'll be monitoring the price of player-sold Provisioning items, as well as feedback on this and other forums, to see if and when this pricing schema should change.
Those ingredients that aren’t becoming “Old” or “Stale” will remain useful in Provisioning. However, their names and icons might change. For instance, this is the case with Oats and Tomatoes, generally considered the rarest of all Provisioning ingredients today. After the revamp, they will still be required for purple recipes, but they will change icons and names. So don’t rush off and sell all your tomatoes and oats, thinking they will become commonplace!
Of course, there are many other ways to get ingredients, as well. Like we mentioned in the article, you can now skin fish for use in meat dishes. As ever, you can check in crates, barrels, boxes, and many other places to find spare ingredients just lying around – though now this may incur the wrath of justice. You’ll also find provisioning materials on critters in the wild, as well as receiving materials of all kinds from your Hirelings and any Writs you complete.
2. “What happens to all of my recipes?”
You will still know all of your recipes. No recipes will be ‘forgotten’. However, much like the ingredients that remain, their names and the ingredients they use will change. The rest of any recipe will generally remain the same:
• All recipes have retained their quality. If you knew a purple recipe before the revamp, you will still know a purple recipe afterwards.
• All recipes remain food or drink. If a recipe was a food recipe before the revamp, it will still be a food recipe afterwards (and the same for drink recipes).
• The vast majority of recipes have retained their level. The few recipes that have changed level, have only had their level increase, to ensure maximum value for your effort.
3. “What about VR 10 recipes?”
With the Provisioner Revamp, we are introducing new Veteran Rank 10 recipes. As brand-new recipes, you will have to go out into the world and find them, much like before – no matter how many recipes you might already know.
4. “What happens to all of the foods and drinks I’ve already made?”
They will all still be edible and useful. Many of the foods and drinks you’ve made before will remain as they are today; not even their names will change (they won’t become “old”) – you just won’t be able to make them anymore. Some foods will change their names and icons, but will still be as useful as before.
5. “What’s happening with Drinks?”
During the design phase of the Provisioner revamp, we discussed the possibility of allowing players to use both a food and a drink at the same time. However, we’ve decided at this time that we want there to be an interesting choice between food and drink – some situations call for food, while other situations call for drink. To this end, we’ve improved the regeneration(s) granted by drinks by a significant margin, but we’ve left food and drink unable to stack with one another.
...
We’ll be watching the usage of food and drink on PTS, and going forward on Live. If feedback and metrics show that drinks remain widely unused after the improvements, we will review our options (including but not limited to making them stack) and act accordingly.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146599/official-discussion-thread-for-update-6-guide-provisioning/p2
MSchroeder mod
10:18PM edited 10:21PM Staff Post
I’d like to take a moment and address some of the questions that have come up in this thread so far. We’re all excited to hear your feedback, and I wanted to allay a few fears. Some of this is information we’ve shared before, but I figured it would be helpful to address as much as possible here.
...
1. “What happens to all of my ingredients? How do I get new ingredients I might need?”
Some ingredients will be marked as “Old”. They will no longer be used in Provisioning. However, we’ve set their value to be the same as the price of buying a new ingredient. Grocers will be selling ALL non-rare ingredients, so visiting one is recommended as a one-stop shop for your Provisioning needs. Further, Chefs will be selling all non-rare Food ingredients, and Brewers will be selling all non-rare Drink ingredients. We'll be monitoring the price of player-sold Provisioning items, as well as feedback on this and other forums, to see if and when this pricing schema should change.
Those ingredients that aren’t becoming “Old” or “Stale” will remain useful in Provisioning. However, their names and icons might change. For instance, this is the case with Oats and Tomatoes, generally considered the rarest of all Provisioning ingredients today. After the revamp, they will still be required for purple recipes, but they will change icons and names. So don’t rush off and sell all your tomatoes and oats, thinking they will become commonplace!
Of course, there are many other ways to get ingredients, as well. Like we mentioned in the article, you can now skin fish for use in meat dishes. As ever, you can check in crates, barrels, boxes, and many other places to find spare ingredients just lying around – though now this may incur the wrath of justice. You’ll also find provisioning materials on critters in the wild, as well as receiving materials of all kinds from your Hirelings and any Writs you complete.
2. “What happens to all of my recipes?”
You will still know all of your recipes. No recipes will be ‘forgotten’. However, much like the ingredients that remain, their names and the ingredients they use will change. The rest of any recipe will generally remain the same:
• All recipes have retained their quality. If you knew a purple recipe before the revamp, you will still know a purple recipe afterwards.
• All recipes remain food or drink. If a recipe was a food recipe before the revamp, it will still be a food recipe afterwards (and the same for drink recipes).
• The vast majority of recipes have retained their level. The few recipes that have changed level, have only had their level increase, to ensure maximum value for your effort.
3. “What about VR 10 recipes?”
With the Provisioner Revamp, we are introducing new Veteran Rank 10 recipes. As brand-new recipes, you will have to go out into the world and find them, much like before – no matter how many recipes you might already know.
4. “What happens to all of the foods and drinks I’ve already made?”
They will all still be edible and useful. Many of the foods and drinks you’ve made before will remain as they are today; not even their names will change (they won’t become “old”) – you just won’t be able to make them anymore. Some foods will change their names and icons, but will still be as useful as before.
5. “What’s happening with Drinks?”
During the design phase of the Provisioner revamp, we discussed the possibility of allowing players to use both a food and a drink at the same time. However, we’ve decided at this time that we want there to be an interesting choice between food and drink – some situations call for food, while other situations call for drink. To this end, we’ve improved the regeneration(s) granted by drinks by a significant margin, but we’ve left food and drink unable to stack with one another.
...
We’ll be watching the usage of food and drink on PTS, and going forward on Live. If feedback and metrics show that drinks remain widely unused after the improvements, we will review our options (including but not limited to making them stack) and act accordingly.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146599/official-discussion-thread-for-update-6-guide-provisioning/p2
GM of the Unholy Legacy
EU/EP
Sorcerer Flaminir (Magicka) / Staminir (Stamina)Templar Elixiia (Magicka/Healer) / Lotti Velooni (Magicka)
DragonKnight Xalora Flaminar (Tank) / Unholy-Dragon-Toad (Tank)
Nightblade Aimee Owlious (Magicka) / Myttens (Stamina)
Warden: Frosti-Tute (Magicka/Healer) Boops-Many-Snoots (Stamina/Tank)
3
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭That is disappointing. I was looking forward to drinks finally being useful. They basically cut out the only thing I was looking forward to in the provisioning revamp. You'd think that they would have some kind of statistical data that they can query that would show them that almost nobody uses drinks.
Edited by timidobserver on 20 January 2015 03:27V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
Ahdora✭✭✭✭✭Thanks for sharing this. I too am disappointed that we won't be able to use both food and drink.
Heals With Stick, V11 Argonian Nightblade Healer, NA-EP4 -
there is no "interesting choice" between food and drink. everyone uses food, and given the "choice" between food and drink, everyone will continue to use food, not even CLOSE to a choice.5 -
AssaultLemming✭✭✭✭I don't think that is necessarily true, if the regen provided from drink is enough then the option of more sustain becomes viable and interesting especially for longer fights.2
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Syntse✭✭✭✭✭I cannot easily think of situation where I would go drink over food. So pretty sure the situation remains that people will use foods only. Not good decision from Zos.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]4 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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No they won't, Players have been begging for Drinks to stack with Food since day 1. They finally tell us that they'll stack and the forums rejoiced, now they're saying nope, we changed our minds. There is no good reason to use Drink over Food, none. They would have to buff up Drink regen to such a point that we'd get enough Magicka/Stamina back every 2 sec to use a full ability to make it worthwhile. I.E. if XYZ Ability costs 2300 Magicka in 1.6 and we had 1400 regen via gear then the Drink would have to be at least 900 regen in order to be a viable choice over Food. I don't see ZoS buffing Drinks that far, such a disappointment.davedwildebeast wrote: »During the design phase of the Provisioner revamp, we discussed the possibility of allowing players to use both a food and a drink at the same time. However, we’ve decided at this time that we want there to be an interesting choice between food and drink – some situations call for food, while other situations call for drink. To this end, we’ve improved the regeneration(s) granted by drinks by a significant margin, but we’ve left food and drink unable to stack with one another.
...
We’ll be watching the usage of food and drink on PTS, and going forward on Live. If feedback and metrics show that drinks remain widely unused after the improvements, we will review our options (including but not limited to making them stack) and act accordingly.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146599/official-discussion-thread-for-update-6-guide-provisioning/p22 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yep, that is definitely poorly thought-through."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle0 -
renton1x1x1✭✭✭thks for the infoRenton Sc Breton Sorcerer VR14
Renton Tp Argonian Templar VR14
Renton Dk Imperial DragonKnight VR14
Renton Nb Khajiit Nightblade VR10 Vampire
www.alitheso.com Casual Social EU PvX Guild
Ebonheart Pact EU PVP Decimation Elite Azura's Star
The Traveling Merchant
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/190077/the-traveling-merchant-eu-craglorn-trading-guild
So let me get this straight: You want to ride on a magic carpet to see the king of the potato people and beg with him for your freedom. And you're telling me that you're completely sane? - Rimmer - Red Dwarf V - Quarantine0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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No they won't, Players have been begging for Drinks to stack with Food since day 1. They finally tell us that they'll stack and the forums rejoiced, now they're saying nope, we changed our minds. There is no good reason to use Drink over Food, none. They would have to buff up Drink regen to such a point that we'd get enough Magicka/Stamina back every 2 sec to use a full ability to make it worthwhile. I.E. if XYZ Ability costs 2300 Magicka in 1.6 and we had 1400 regen via gear then the Drink would have to be at least 900 regen in order to be a viable choice over Food. I don't see ZoS buffing Drinks that far, such a disappointment.davedwildebeast wrote: »During the design phase of the Provisioner revamp, we discussed the possibility of allowing players to use both a food and a drink at the same time. However, we’ve decided at this time that we want there to be an interesting choice between food and drink – some situations call for food, while other situations call for drink. To this end, we’ve improved the regeneration(s) granted by drinks by a significant margin, but we’ve left food and drink unable to stack with one another.
...
We’ll be watching the usage of food and drink on PTS, and going forward on Live. If feedback and metrics show that drinks remain widely unused after the improvements, we will review our options (including but not limited to making them stack) and act accordingly.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146599/official-discussion-thread-for-update-6-guide-provisioning/p2
Food vs drink has always been a matter of 'how long does the fight last'.
If by not using food i lose X stat, and i gain the same amount of X stat from a drink over Y seconds, then the drink will be viable if the average length of a fight will be at least Y seconds.
For short fights, the food is better, because the drink does not have enough time to 'tick it's way to viability'. For long fights however, the stat difference given by food becomes more and more negligible as the duration increases. For example, in a 30 minute fight during which you use a total fo 50.000 magicka, what difference does it make if you had 400 more magicka at start.(a drink that would regen 10.000 magicka during the same 30 minutes however...)
What remains to be seen is what Y will be in 1.6 (what the average fight length will be to warrant the use of a drink). If it will be under 10 seconds, i will consider using drinks(as long as my HP doesn't drop too low to survive a ganker's burst of course).0 -
Woolenthreads✭✭✭✭AssaultLemming wrote: »I don't think that is necessarily true, if the regen provided from drink is enough then the option of more sustain becomes viable and interesting especially for longer fights.
There would have to be a really significant increase in regen for it to be viable. For instance I have a food that boosts 357 points in all three stats. The equivalent Drink boosts my Regen by 8 points. So I have a combat lasting 13.5s and the opponent does 985hp. It's not an average test just a quick one, so they do 73dps so to be equivalent. In my opinion the regen has to increase at least 50points per second more. In other words I think it needs to be at least 6 times more powerful than the current formula and work during battle. Anything less than increased by a factor of 5 and they'd be better off just making the food and drink stack with the current levels knocking the food down by 20% to compensate.Oooh look, lot's of Butterflies! Wait! Butterflies? Get out of here Sheo, stop bugging me!
Having issues with Provisioning Writs? A list of problem Writs and people willing to help in game can be found in this Thread0 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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If you wanted to publicise more .. don't see why you would, plenty of people have found it .. all you needed to do was post a link, not start another thread containing a parallel discussion, ZOS presumably named their thread Official Discussion Thread for "Update 6 Guide: Provisioning" for a reason.davedwildebeast wrote: »This was announced tonight but buried away on the 'website articles' forum, but it was very useful info on the new provisioning system so thought I'd paste a copy here for people:
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on 20 January 2015 10:274 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If drinks also boosted ONE of your stats, either stamina or magicka, you wouldnt need to loose your dps if you use drinks over food. IMO its the loss of dps that makes people choose food over drink.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If the drink recipes provided regeneration rates of 80-100 or more (before the CS rescaling), then I would certainly consider using them, especially in dungeons.0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Drinks may be better then previously thought, pending removal of soft caps and depending on the buff to drinks which they say is a significant margin. Lets throw some math around!
-Currently purple V5 food is granting us 385 health, magica, and stamina.
-Currently V5 purple drink is granting us a sad 8 regeneration to said stats. 8*30=240 resources over a 60 second fight.
Now what if that number does get significantly increased? Say to 20 regen to all stats? Well now your looking at a 600 resources, over that 60 second fight.
Food will probably be better for short encounters or having that extra resources in your pool to take from and added damage burst. Where sustain encounters you may be better off with chugging some ale.
We will have to see what the number comes in at before casting drinks aside again.Edited by Chrlynsch on 20 January 2015 16:47Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
BillyMailman✭✭✭If by not using food i lose X stat, and i gain the same amount of X stat from a drink over Y seconds, then the drink will be viable if the average length of a fight will be at least Y seconds.
Thing is, even if the drink gives significantly more resource over the course of a fight, the food buff increases how useful those resources are, since max magicka/stamina feed into the damage and healing calculations for abilities. Drink is going to need to be a lot more powerful than food, in raw terms of extra resource available per average fight, to actually be more useful
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ashlee17✭✭✭✭Great work finding this and reposting it for us to read OP. I can't wait to see this overhaul of provisioning come to life! Food and drink stacking would have been nice but I'm too excited about new recipes to care
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Tarukmockto✭✭✭BillyMailman wrote: »Thing is, even if the drink gives significantly more resource over the course of a fight, the food buff increases how useful those resources are, since max magicka/stamina feed into the damage and healing calculations for abilities. Drink is going to need to be a lot more powerful than food, in raw terms of extra resource available per average fight, to actually be more useful
It's not really about being more useful. It's about being equally useful. Then you have to weigh the option and make an informed decision about which is better for you, in any given situation.NA - DC - DK - PC0 -
NotSo✭✭✭✭Drinks need to work differently
Currently they offer just increased regeneration in 1 to 3 stats but I think they should change to increased regen of 1 stat as well as max increase to 1 stat,Gar'Sol the Wanderer VR14 Khajiit Sorcerer Spellblade0 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyone else find it dumb that they are adding V10 recipes, but they know they are removing veteran ranks?2 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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At this point I'm not 100% sure they'll go through with veteran rank removal. They'll certainly change their minds three times over before 1.7 arrives.Anyone else find it dumb that they are adding V10 recipes, but they know they are removing veteran ranks?
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kimboh✭✭✭✭The champion system will add passives and boosts to your stats, so we may find that the increase to base line attributes is substantial enough to make drinks a viable alternative to food.Status: offline<l Cygnus X|VR14|Sorc l><| Romulus Prime|VR12|Temp |><| Qwoptus |lvl30|DK|><| DC|EU |>0 -
HeroOfEvbof✭✭✭IMHO, drinks are not going to have to be competitive with food, but will have to be competitive with the food/potion/alchemy enchant combo.
We arent going to abandon the potion/alchemy enchant combo anytime soon because weapdam/spelldam and/or crit is far too important to not be popping every 15 sec.
No one likes to pop a potion and not get attributes back. No healer likes overheal either. Result of this philosophy is the demand for more max.apud me omnia fiunt Mathematicè in Natura - Rene Descartes0
