9-trait item set, “The Twice Born Star” considered laughable

Heishi

As has been mentioned a couple times, this problem goes deeper than just the twice born set. The more traits you have researched, the better the set bonus should be. It's a simple matter of effort vs reward. The payoff for twice born is easily matched at lower levels. Meanwhile the lowest three (2 traits to unlock) have useful effects and stats.

Personally they way I think it should be done is all sets should be available at 2 traits at their respective locations. Then, each additional trait, the stat should be raised. This "rank" of the set would then be determined by the lowest traits used.

I'll use Nights Silence as an example since it's the first listed 2 traits:

2 Items
Adds 78 Max Stamina
3 Items
Adds 10 Stamina Recovery
4 Items
Adds 4% Weapon Critical
5 Items
Night’s Silence: Increase speed while Sneaking by 60%

So say you have two traits. No matter whether you create lv4 or VR14 It would look like:

2 Items
Adds 9 Max Stamina
3 Items
Adds 1 Stamina Recovery
4 Items
Adds 4% Weapon Critical
5 Items
Night’s Silence: Increase speed while Sneaking by 7%

Then if you have 3 traits in all pieces of the set:

2 Items
Adds 18 Max Stamina
3 Items
Adds 2 Stamina Recovery
4 Items
Adds 4% Weapon Critical
5 Items
Night’s Silence: Increase speed while Sneaking by 14%

this continues up to 9 traits which would be the original value listed.

Now if you had say.. 4 set pieces trait 3 but one trait 2, the stats would be that of trait 2.

By doing this, players with higher traits would be rewarded for the higher traits, it would encourage trading as people with a correct amount of traits in 4 of the 5 could get one from someone else that has the higher number of traits.

It wouldn't be as limited as before, but players would still be limited in that they would still have to find the table in the correct area. Certain sets like in Eyevea and the Earth Forge you'd still have to do all the quest to get to. I just think all around it would work better.

helediron

Only Mara and Arena are regularly ordered 8trait sets.

While the 8 traits were just waiting game, getting all nirnhoned traits was actually quite much work and time. I welcomed it. It was tied to end game and not trivial. Few more similar implements and crafting should start to turn valuable.

Nine trait equipments should be shockingly good. There should be more of them suitable for minmaxing. Twice Born set is too all-around. I suggest stamina-warlocks as nine trait crafted armor with matching rings as droppables. Also Destructive Mage set could be redesigned and with matching crafted armor and weapons. Now the set is used by no one.

WhiskyBob

- If you have twice born star on dual wield weapons and swap them for (for example) resto staff and back again you loose the second bonus.

- Sometimes it gets so bugged that you permanently loose the ability of gaining second mundus stone unless you relog

- If you have Sword and Shield in Twice Born Star on one bar and two daggers in twice born star on second bar it sometimes looses one buff.

This set would be nice if it wasnt painful to use.

Nazon_Katts

Well, I think the purpose of Twice Born is for leveling an alt. The name kinda gives it away. And having those all purpose bonuses sure is nice while grinding out levels and skills.

But considering you'd need multiple sets, I just don't think it should have been a 9 trait set, since that should make it rather expensive and exclusive and not a "mass" product. If it were 6trait, I could see people actually using it in lower levels, but for specialized endgame it's rather inefficient.

Ah well, just another case of weird tier classification by ZOS.

Kraven

Over all crafting is too simple. Which is why so many do it and since so many have max crafters the economy for crafted items is absolutely horrid. Mats come from everywhere so there isn't even much economy for those, except for gold upgrade material. Nirnhoned it is not just a pain in the ass to find the trait to research but a pain to find the stones so they're going for an outrageous price.

The only trait in the game at all that is hard to find is:
1. Not a very good trait to begin with.
2. Only required to make one set.
3. The set it's needed to make isn't all that good.
4. Costs a skill point in each to craft to cap the research time at a month otherwise you spend an exorbitant amount of time on it.

All of which equals up to "Why bother?".

When a white level one item is selling for more than a gold v14 just for the trait there's a problem. When every person and their brother is a max crafter, there's a problem. When the only people who aren't crafters have to go out of their way not to be, there's a problem. When pvp containers contain some of the absolute best sets in the game, there's a problem. When you've created 23 crafted sets and only 5 are used with any regularity there's a problem.

Most (as in almost ALL) people use a combination of crafted gear mixed in, which I know was their intention. I even know very small number of people who use TBS set. Crafting in ESO is nothing at all but a time sink. No challenge. No meaning. Nothing special.

The intention wasn't bad making crafted gear viable for end game. Kind of like politics though, good in theory but not put into practice well at all.

Aett_Thorn

Just make it so that it can be crafted as one of three sets:

Twice-Born Mage
Twice-Born Thief
Twice-Born Warrior

Give each one 2-, 3-, and 4-set piece bonuses for the basic role those groups have, and we're all set. For instance, the Mage set would give magika bonuses, the Thief set stamina bonuses, and the Warrior health and armor. That way it stops being bad at all things and can be used by more people. Heck, maybe even give the 3-set bonuses for each something a little more unique.

Armitas

Would it be any better if the set allowed you to use the same mundus stone twice? For example 2 thief or 2 shadow.

ThePonzzz

Armitas wrote: »

Would it be any better if the set allowed you to use the same mundus stone twice? For example 2 thief or 2 shadow.

Not with soft caps.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Would it be any better if the set allowed you to use the same mundus stone twice? For example 2 thief or 2 shadow.

Not with soft caps.

Soft caps are going away but I don't think that would be sufficient enough a boost unless they dramatically increase mundus effects.

Gyudan

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Just make it so that it can be crafted as one of three sets:

Twice-Born Mage
Twice-Born Thief
Twice-Born Warrior

Give each one 2-, 3-, and 4-set piece bonuses for the basic role those groups have, and we're all set. For instance, the Mage set would give magika bonuses, the Thief set stamina bonuses, and the Warrior health and armor. That way it stops being bad at all things and can be used by more people. Heck, maybe even give the 3-set bonuses for each something a little more unique.

This. @ZOS_GinaBruno please forward this suggestion to the team in charge of crafting, if it still exists.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Kraven wrote: »

Over all crafting is too simple. Which is why so many do it and since so many have max crafters the economy for crafted items is absolutely horrid. Mats come from everywhere so there isn't even much economy for those, except for gold upgrade material. Nirnhoned it is not just a pain in the ass to find the trait to research but a pain to find the stones so they're going for an outrageous price.

The only trait in the game at all that is hard to find is:
1. Not a very good trait to begin with.
2. Only required to make one set.
3. The set it's needed to make isn't all that good.
4. Costs a skill point in each to craft to cap the research time at a month otherwise you spend an exorbitant amount of time on it.

All of which equals up to "Why bother?".

When a white level one item is selling for more than a gold v14 just for the trait there's a problem. When every person and their brother is a max crafter, there's a problem. When the only people who aren't crafters have to go out of their way not to be, there's a problem. When pvp containers contain some of the absolute best sets in the game, there's a problem. When you've created 23 crafted sets and only 5 are used with any regularity there's a problem.

Most (as in almost ALL) people use a combination of crafted gear mixed in, which I know was their intention. I even know very small number of people who use TBS set. Crafting in ESO is nothing at all but a time sink. No challenge. No meaning. Nothing special.

The intention wasn't bad making crafted gear viable for end game. Kind of like politics though, good in theory but not put into practice well at all.

^ this x1000.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Gyudan wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Just make it so that it can be crafted as one of three sets:

Twice-Born Mage
Twice-Born Thief
Twice-Born Warrior

Give each one 2-, 3-, and 4-set piece bonuses for the basic role those groups have, and we're all set. For instance, the Mage set would give magika bonuses, the Thief set stamina bonuses, and the Warrior health and armor. That way it stops being bad at all things and can be used by more people. Heck, maybe even give the 3-set bonuses for each something a little more unique.

This. @ZOS_GinaBruno please forward this suggestion to the team in charge of crafting, if it still exists.

So... no other ideas on this subject? No one is concerned that end game crafters get really crappy choices while mid level crafters get all the demand???? Does this make sense?

facemace

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Just make it so that it can be crafted as one of three sets:

Twice-Born Mage
Twice-Born Thief
Twice-Born Warrior

Give each one 2-, 3-, and 4-set piece bonuses for the basic role those groups have, and we're all set. For instance, the Mage set would give magika bonuses, the Thief set stamina bonuses, and the Warrior health and armor. That way it stops being bad at all things and can be used by more people. Heck, maybe even give the 3-set bonuses for each something a little more unique.

This. @ZOS_GinaBruno please forward this suggestion to the team in charge of crafting, if it still exists.

So... no other ideas on this subject? No one is concerned that end game crafters get really crappy choices while mid level crafters get all the demand???? Does this make sense?

Well, likely eventually (just did to their lack of understanding) they will release a 8-9 trait set that is considered "beyond mandatory" for some trial role. They won't do this on purpose, mind, but when they do...

Pengeszikra

I hope many new craftable 7, 8, 9 traits sets is coming, plus acessories crafting skill line.

Pengeszikra

Possible these new sets crafting need to learn, not 'just' walk to proper crafting location.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Pengeszikra wrote: »

Possible these new sets crafting need to learn, not 'just' walk to proper crafting location.

I spent hundreds of thousands of gold training all my nirn and very few people want this set. That is pitiful.

Govalon

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Pengeszikra wrote: »

Possible these new sets crafting need to learn, not 'just' walk to proper crafting location.

I spent hundreds of thousands of gold training all my nirn and very few people want this set. That is pitiful.

Thank you for your money. I have been making hundres of thousands of gold selling nirn traits. I still make lot of money with them. Sure, I make less than a month ago but nirn is still good way to make money for me

timidobserver

Twice-Born would be more useful if it you didn't have to go and pick up a second mundus every time you take it off and put it on. If you put your twice-born on, it should automatically pick up the second mundus you had the last time you took it off and put it back on.

Gyudan

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Pengeszikra wrote: »

Possible these new sets crafting need to learn, not 'just' walk to proper crafting location.

I spent hundreds of thousands of gold training all my nirn and very few people want this set. That is pitiful.

I've used well over 50 nirncrux stones for research and I feel your pain.

A gear crafting revamp in 1.8 would be nice.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Gyudan wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Pengeszikra wrote: »

Possible these new sets crafting need to learn, not 'just' walk to proper crafting location.

I spent hundreds of thousands of gold training all my nirn and very few people want this set. That is pitiful.

I've used well over 50 nirncrux stones for research and I feel your pain.

A gear crafting revamp in 1.8 would be nice.

Thank's but doesn't help much, 1.8 is most likely a year away, in the mean time they could allow 3 mundus stones or give more of a bonus, something.

ArconSeptim

Vusile wrote: »

Hopefully crafting is redesigned with the removal of vet ranks in update 7

I've invested a lot of time in research and am currently looking at my 9th traits all around, but I've found that new undaunted gear with a mix of 6-trait gear and set ring/necklaces are typically the new endgame combination.

It pretty much is pointless to research past 6-trait and the whole thing about crafted gear being better than dropped gear has not been true for a while now with so many new options available to players.

Investing time in the professions was definitely rewarding for a time, but it just feels like new content jips the crafter.

I hope if it continues like this with updates, I hope we don't get update 7 in September 2015!

Xsorus

There is one 8 trait set I'm planning on building around after 1.6 and it's not Mara or arena heh.

nerevarine1138

Kraven wrote: »

Over all crafting is too simple. Which is why so many do it and since so many have max crafters the economy for crafted items is absolutely horrid. Mats come from everywhere so there isn't even much economy for those, except for gold upgrade material. Nirnhoned it is not just a pain in the ass to find the trait to research but a pain to find the stones so they're going for an outrageous price.

The only trait in the game at all that is hard to find is:
1. Not a very good trait to begin with.
2. Only required to make one set.
3. The set it's needed to make isn't all that good.
4. Costs a skill point in each to craft to cap the research time at a month otherwise you spend an exorbitant amount of time on it.

All of which equals up to "Why bother?".

When a white level one item is selling for more than a gold v14 just for the trait there's a problem. When every person and their brother is a max crafter, there's a problem. When the only people who aren't crafters have to go out of their way not to be, there's a problem. When pvp containers contain some of the absolute best sets in the game, there's a problem. When you've created 23 crafted sets and only 5 are used with any regularity there's a problem.

Most (as in almost ALL) people use a combination of crafted gear mixed in, which I know was their intention. I even know very small number of people who use TBS set. Crafting in ESO is nothing at all but a time sink. No challenge. No meaning. Nothing special.

The intention wasn't bad making crafted gear viable for end game. Kind of like politics though, good in theory but not put into practice well at all.

I have to disagree with the lack of challenge in crafting. Most of the patched additions for crafting have added quite a bit of challenge, and being a Dwemer Motif Master (along with everything else) has enabled me to make a ton of gold from crafting for others.

So there are far fewer people investing the time and energy in crafting than you think there are, especially when it comes to the hard-to-get stuff.

I do agree that not all sets have the most useful 5-piece bonus, but I still find interesting combinations for those who aren't looking for a pure PvP or pure damage set. For example, someone mentioned Eyes of Mara as being the only popular 8-trait set, but Orgnum's Scales is fantastic for tanking. Combining it with Vampire's Kiss (or if you want a damage boost, any set that emphasizes stamina/magicka) can result in an extremely powerful tank build.

heystreethawk

Kraven wrote: »

When pvp containers contain some of the absolute best sets in the game, there's a problem.

I agree with all of your points except this one! I primarily PvP, but none of the 5 piece items have really rocked my face; I've tried a few of them, but always go back to crafted or dropped sets. It doesn't fill me with rage or anything, but I wish there was a sweeter reward to justify the amount of time I think about Cyrodiil while performing everyday tasks such as laundry and gainful employment. I do think there are some nice 3 piece sets -- but those are dependent upon jewelry, which is a bit of a different animal, since we can't craft it ourselves. Is there a 5pc bonus you really like?

Digiman

The amount of Time sunk into researching traits is laughable high way robbery. To get to 8 traits you would of spent over a month, your subscription fee gone to get it.

To top it off they are outmatched by the stuff you get from drops in dungeons and all that time wasted getting those traits researched for the ability to make the set on a MMO that doesn't have a proper market to Auction them on is infuriating.

Honestly this should be capped at 7 days CD at max with no points put into to research. Like I said, there is no skill involved in research just time wasted. Honestly I doubt many will bother seeking twice born cause its bonus's are as the OP said a joke compare to other sets. Unless you have been unluck all 6 months in drops then isn't worth setting out to get it when there are better sets available, especially for an alt at least.

Digiman

Pengeszikra wrote: »

I hope many new craftable 7, 8, 9 traits sets is coming, plus acessories crafting skill line.

I pray not. Like I said time sink is basically set to steal or money. Would be different if it was RNG based with success and failure based on each attempt. Success would garner a progression point towards mastering it and it will provide a better avenue for buying crafted gear off of other players.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

heystreethawk wrote: »

Kraven wrote: »

When pvp containers contain some of the absolute best sets in the game, there's a problem.

I agree with all of your points except this one! I primarily PvP, but none of the 5 piece items have really rocked my face; I've tried a few of them, but always go back to crafted or dropped sets. It doesn't fill me with rage or anything, but I wish there was a sweeter reward to justify the amount of time I think about Cyrodiil while performing everyday tasks such as laundry and gainful employment. I do think there are some nice 3 piece sets -- but those are dependent upon jewelry, which is a bit of a different animal, since we can't craft it ourselves. Is there a 5pc bonus you really like?

He means the buyable containers, hawks eye for example is in extremely high demand (20k+ per piece of green).

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Has anyone revisited the feasibility of this set in 1.6?

Sandmanninja

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Vusile wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

What time is invested? You mark an item and then carry on with your business. It's not like you are the one doing the research. Maybe time finding the ones your need but there's a great add on for that.

The time to level up each of the three professions to get it to 50. The 22 skill points which you put in per skill tree for a total of 66. The time and resources spent to find nirnhoned items through PvP or resources spent buying crafted nirnhoned items for deconstruction.

I agree that letting an item sit and research takes no effort on our parts. But researching alone is only part of it. When endgame of crafting suffers, so does the entire profession.

Anyhow, I think it is wise to continue researching because there will be other 9-trait sets and eventually 10-trait sets. They may yet redeem themselves.

I agree the leveling takes time, but the research is just a waiting game.

It's allocating a toon's skill points, too. Plus deconstructing all of that dropped gear to level the skill itself.

It's "nothing", but then why am I flooded with email requests from guildies for crafted items? I'm 8/8 in every item and working on 5 nirn traits. Someone wanted the eyes of mara the other day and that's an 8-trait set.

Because I'm a master crafter, I can craft any piece, of any motif, for any of my toons. I get max returns on my deconstructed items.

It's one of the things I like about ESO.

If crafting isn't your thing, then don't worry about it. Until you need something made...

Stella75

the problem is not in the 5 set bonus but in the the other bonus people want to narrow down what they are adding to not adding to all three. should have just made 3 different sets one for each hp, stam, and mag.