9-trait item set, “The Twice Born Star” considered laughable

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

This according to http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2i0m9o/new_9_trait_item_set_coming_let_the/ .

What can ZoS do to improve this set bonus?

Increase set bonus to 3 mundus or increase all mundus bonuses across the board?

KBKB

I thought so too, it does have its uses though

Gyudan

Yes, it's quite bad. There's no real point in investing time in crafting research since the most useful sets require 6 traits researched or less.

I think that @ZOS should rething endgame crafting and give valuable options to crafters, like slight bonuses to crafted gear (a few % after a long investment in a specific item) or the ability to change traits/style on crafted and dropped gear.

Update 6 will hopefully come with changes to the mundus numbers to make some boons more competitive.

KBKB wrote: »

I thought so too, it does have its uses though

I have a full crafted set of TBS upgraded to legendary and I haven't used it in 2 months because it's just bad. Having to go back to the mundus stone to activate the 2nd boon again if you happen to remove 1 piece of the set makes it even worse.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Gyudan wrote: »

Yes, it's quite bad. There's no real point in investing time in crafting research since the most useful sets require 6 traits researched or less.

I think that @ZOS should rething endgame crafting and give valuable options to crafters, like slight bonuses to crafted gear (a few % after a long investment in a specific item) or the ability to change traits/style on crafted and dropped gear.

Update 6 will hopefully come with changes to the mundus numbers to make some boons more competitive.

KBKB wrote: »

I thought so too, it does have its uses though

I have a full crafted set of TBS upgraded to legendary and I haven't used it in 2 months because it's just bad. Having to go back to the mundus stone to activate the 2nd boon again if you happen to remove 1 piece of the set makes it even worse.

That's what I thought too, it's a deeper issue than just this set but this set accentuates that months of crafting yields a product far worse than sets you can find just running any old public dungeon.

Vusile

Hopefully crafting is redesigned with the removal of vet ranks in update 7

I've invested a lot of time in research and am currently looking at my 9th traits all around, but I've found that new undaunted gear with a mix of 6-trait gear and set ring/necklaces are typically the new endgame combination.

It pretty much is pointless to research past 6-trait and the whole thing about crafted gear being better than dropped gear has not been true for a while now with so many new options available to players.

Investing time in the professions was definitely rewarding for a time, but it just feels like new content jips the crafter.

SFBryan18

What time is invested? You mark an item and then carry on with your business. It's not like you are the one doing the research. Maybe time finding the ones you need but there's a great add on for that.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Vusile wrote: »

Hopefully crafting is redesigned with the removal of vet ranks in update 7

I've invested a lot of time in research and am currently looking at my 9th traits all around, but I've found that new undaunted gear with a mix of 6-trait gear and set ring/necklaces are typically the new endgame combination.

It pretty much is pointless to research past 6-trait and the whole thing about crafted gear being better than dropped gear has not been true for a while now with so many new options available to players.

Investing time in the professions was definitely rewarding for a time, but it just feels like new content jips the crafter.

Right, End game crafting should be tied to end game pvp and pve via material or something but should be equally powerful as armour sets you can find in any dungeon currently its not.

DDuke

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Vusile wrote: »

Hopefully crafting is redesigned with the removal of vet ranks in update 7

I've invested a lot of time in research and am currently looking at my 9th traits all around, but I've found that new undaunted gear with a mix of 6-trait gear and set ring/necklaces are typically the new endgame combination.

It pretty much is pointless to research past 6-trait and the whole thing about crafted gear being better than dropped gear has not been true for a while now with so many new options available to players.

Investing time in the professions was definitely rewarding for a time, but it just feels like new content jips the crafter.

Right, End game crafting should be tied to end game pvp and pve via material or something but should be equally powerful as armour sets you can find in any dungeon currently its not.

Actually, the game everyone loves to hate did this pretty well with things like Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros.

Too bad they didn't really expand much on that in following expansions, but it was cool that you had to collect these rare materials & then get a good blacksmith to make the weapon.

Vusile

SFBryan18 wrote: »

What time is invested? You mark an item and then carry on with your business. It's not like you are the one doing the research. Maybe time finding the ones your need but there's a great add on for that.

The time to level up each of the three professions to get it to 50. The 22 skill points which you put in per skill tree for a total of 66. The time and resources spent to find nirnhoned items through PvP or resources spent buying crafted nirnhoned items for deconstruction.

I agree that letting an item sit and research takes no effort on our parts. But researching alone is only part of it. When endgame of crafting suffers, so does the entire profession.

Anyhow, I think it is wise to continue researching because there will be other 9-trait sets and eventually 10-trait sets. They may yet redeem themselves.

Nazon_Katts

Depends a bit on how it will work out, but generally an approach similar to spellcrafting for crafting as a whole would be the direction I'd like to see the system going to, eventually.

So we could choose traits, properties and bonuses - depending on crafting level, skill points invested and research - basically creating our own sets of gear. Throw in some sort of attunement stones to link pieces together and to increase their respective bonuses.

I think that would be a whole lot better than the static sets we got now, since this would allow to actually mix and match crafted and dropped gear and we wouldn't be so cornered into wearing just two sets, damned to deconstruct anything but the full set that's better than what we got now.

Dracane

Yes, they should increase the effect of all Mundus stones.

SFBryan18

Vusile wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

What time is invested? You mark an item and then carry on with your business. It's not like you are the one doing the research. Maybe time finding the ones your need but there's a great add on for that.

The time to level up each of the three professions to get it to 50. The 22 skill points which you put in per skill tree for a total of 66. The time and resources spent to find nirnhoned items through PvP or resources spent buying crafted nirnhoned items for deconstruction.

I agree that letting an item sit and research takes no effort on our parts. But researching alone is only part of it. When endgame of crafting suffers, so does the entire profession.

Anyhow, I think it is wise to continue researching because there will be other 9-trait sets and eventually 10-trait sets. They may yet redeem themselves.

I agree the leveling takes time, but the research is just a waiting game.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Depends a bit on how it will work out, but generally an approach similar to spellcrafting for crafting as a whole would be the direction I'd like to see the system going to, eventually.

So we could choose traits, properties and bonuses - depending on crafting level, skill points invested and research - basically creating our own sets of gear. Throw in some sort of attunement stones to link pieces together and to increase their respective bonuses.

I think that would be a whole lot better than the static sets we got now, since this would allow to actually mix and match crafted and dropped gear and we wouldn't be so cornered into wearing just two sets, damned to deconstruct anything but the full set that's better than what we got now.

Good idea but in the short term I'd like to see a reasonable 5pc be applied to something I spent months training.

Ourorboros

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Lynx7386

What's laughable is that they make 6+ trait research take, literally, months of real time. I cant even imagine how long it would take to get 5 pieces at 9 traits, it's absurd, and the only reason it takes so long is to keep subscriptions.

I never work over 6 traits anymore for my research though, the best sets require 6 or less. Night mother's, hunding's rage, hist skin, seducer's, magnus', etc.

daemonios

Agreed. In my limited experience, the only 8-trait set that's of any use is Arena (for PvP) and even then many people will choose other combinations.

I've levelled all my crafting skills in several characters to 50 and am in the process of getting 9 traits in every piece of gear so that I can craft every single craftable piece of gear in the game. But I'm doing it because I'm a completionist, not because it's actually of any use.

They should either review the current 7+ trait sets so that they are worth crafting again, or (if they want to limit access to absolutely best gear) revamp crafting so that some sets require some sort of token from end-game content (boss drop, PvP campaign reward or something like that).

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

daemonios wrote: »

Agreed. In my limited experience, the only 8-trait set that's of any use is Arena (for PvP) and even then many people will choose other combinations.

I've levelled all my crafting skills in several characters to 50 and am in the process of getting 9 traits in every piece of gear so that I can craft every single craftable piece of gear in the game. But I'm doing it because I'm a completionist, not because it's actually of any use.

They should either review the current 7+ trait sets so that they are worth crafting again, or (if they want to limit access to absolutely best gear) revamp crafting so that some sets require some sort of token from end-game content (boss drop, PvP campaign reward or something like that).

Agree.

Rosveen

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

daemonios wrote: »

Agreed. In my limited experience, the only 8-trait set that's of any use is Arena (for PvP) and even then many people will choose other combinations.

I've levelled all my crafting skills in several characters to 50 and am in the process of getting 9 traits in every piece of gear so that I can craft every single craftable piece of gear in the game. But I'm doing it because I'm a completionist, not because it's actually of any use.

They should either review the current 7+ trait sets so that they are worth crafting again, or (if they want to limit access to absolutely best gear) revamp crafting so that some sets require some sort of token from end-game content (boss drop, PvP campaign reward or something like that).

Agree.

We have an Agree button, you know.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Rosveen wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

daemonios wrote: »

Agreed. In my limited experience, the only 8-trait set that's of any use is Arena (for PvP) and even then many people will choose other combinations.

I've levelled all my crafting skills in several characters to 50 and am in the process of getting 9 traits in every piece of gear so that I can craft every single craftable piece of gear in the game. But I'm doing it because I'm a completionist, not because it's actually of any use.

They should either review the current 7+ trait sets so that they are worth crafting again, or (if they want to limit access to absolutely best gear) revamp crafting so that some sets require some sort of token from end-game content (boss drop, PvP campaign reward or something like that).

Agree.

We have an Agree button, you know.

Agree.

DDuke

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

daemonios wrote: »

Agreed. In my limited experience, the only 8-trait set that's of any use is Arena (for PvP) and even then many people will choose other combinations.

I've levelled all my crafting skills in several characters to 50 and am in the process of getting 9 traits in every piece of gear so that I can craft every single craftable piece of gear in the game. But I'm doing it because I'm a completionist, not because it's actually of any use.

They should either review the current 7+ trait sets so that they are worth crafting again, or (if they want to limit access to absolutely best gear) revamp crafting so that some sets require some sort of token from end-game content (boss drop, PvP campaign reward or something like that).

Agree.

We have an Agree button, you know.

Agree.

DeLindsay

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

9-trait item set, “The Twice Born Star” considered laughable

Another indication that the game developers at ZoS don't even play the game they created.

Nazon_Katts

DDuke wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

daemonios wrote: »

Agreed. In my limited experience, the only 8-trait set that's of any use is Arena (for PvP) and even then many people will choose other combinations.

I've levelled all my crafting skills in several characters to 50 and am in the process of getting 9 traits in every piece of gear so that I can craft every single craftable piece of gear in the game. But I'm doing it because I'm a completionist, not because it's actually of any use.

They should either review the current 7+ trait sets so that they are worth crafting again, or (if they want to limit access to absolutely best gear) revamp crafting so that some sets require some sort of token from end-game content (boss drop, PvP campaign reward or something like that).

Agree.

We have an Agree button, you know.

Agree.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

9-trait item set, “The Twice Born Star” considered laughable

Another indication that the game developers at ZoS don't even play the game they created.

I totally agree.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

daemonios wrote: »

Agreed. In my limited experience, the only 8-trait set that's of any use is Arena (for PvP) and even then many people will choose other combinations.

I've levelled all my crafting skills in several characters to 50 and am in the process of getting 9 traits in every piece of gear so that I can craft every single craftable piece of gear in the game. But I'm doing it because I'm a completionist, not because it's actually of any use.

They should either review the current 7+ trait sets so that they are worth crafting again, or (if they want to limit access to absolutely best gear) revamp crafting so that some sets require some sort of token from end-game content (boss drop, PvP campaign reward or something like that).

Agree.

We have an Agree button, you know.

Agree.

But seriously, any better ideas on improving this set?

Ourorboros

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's not just The Twice Born Star set that is questionable. None of the 8-trait sets are much good. Crafting was a big selling point of the game. Crafted items were supposed to be as good as drops. Not really working out that way. Crafting is really just another kind of grind that anyone can do, doesn't even require the skill needed for end game content. Just look at me. Maxed in all crafts, and many 9th traits in the bag. But I'm not good at combat. End game crafting needs to be harder to obtain, through rarity, questing, skill points, or other means.

Agree.

daemonios wrote: »

Agreed. In my limited experience, the only 8-trait set that's of any use is Arena (for PvP) and even then many people will choose other combinations.

I've levelled all my crafting skills in several characters to 50 and am in the process of getting 9 traits in every piece of gear so that I can craft every single craftable piece of gear in the game. But I'm doing it because I'm a completionist, not because it's actually of any use.

They should either review the current 7+ trait sets so that they are worth crafting again, or (if they want to limit access to absolutely best gear) revamp crafting so that some sets require some sort of token from end-game content (boss drop, PvP campaign reward or something like that).

Agree.

We have an Agree button, you know.

Agree.

But seriously, any better ideas on improving this set?

Appreciate the enthusiasm, but there have been plenty of improvement suggestions, ranging from idiotic to brilliant. But they seem to fall on deaf ears, insofar as having anything implemented by Devs. It's rare to see any official post here that is not corrective or pat acknowledgement. This does not seem to be the best place to voice our concerns. I don't know if there is such a place, though I did hear some suggestions about Reddit.

DeLindsay

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

But seriously, any better ideas on improving this set?

It's not the 5pc bonus that players laugh about it's the 2/3/4 that are generic junk. It's as if ZoS wanted to make it universal to all Roles but instead they gimped it for all Roles.

redspecter23

The huge problem is that one extra mundus stone effect is very rarely equal to the 5 pc set bonus you give up to get the effect. Add in the 2/3/4 set bonuses on twice born star which are all over the place and you have a set that tries to appeal to all character builds, but succeeds in appealing to none as it's spread too thin to rival the sets that target specific builds (dps/tank/heals).

A change to mundus stone effects in the future may make this worth a second look but with current mechanics I can't see anyone bothering with it.

Had the mundus effect been on the 3 or 4 piece bonus, it may have been worth considering on builds that can't squeeze in two full 5 pc sets for whatever reason.

Gyudan

SFBryan18 wrote: »

What time is invested? You mark an item and then carry on with your business. It's not like you are the one doing the research. Maybe time finding the ones you need but there's a great add on for that.

I wish crafters had other ways to progress than waiting for a research to complete, but apparently @ZOS hasn't figured out anything better yet.
Endgame crafting is a cruel joke in my opinion.

If researchs were entirely removed from the game, it wouldn't make much difference at this point.

ThePonzzz

Both 8 and 9 trait sets need a lot of help. Until then Hounding, Willow, and Night Mother all the waaaaay!

Grunim

Vusile wrote: »

Anyhow, I think it is wise to continue researching because there will be other 9-trait sets and eventually 10-trait sets. They may yet redeem themselves.

Exactly this. I'm not impressed with the current 8 or 9 trait sets, but maybe just maybe those future 9 and 10 trait sets will be amazing and I'll kick myself in the future if I don't research now.

OrphanHelgen

SFBryan18 wrote: »

What time is invested? You mark an item and then carry on with your business. It's not like you are the one doing the research. Maybe time finding the ones you need but there's a great add on for that.

well, first of all you are constantly playing and subscribing. And if you don't pay attention, you can have open research available for many many days. Also you invest skill points into research. Yes it is time invested, and more !