Sorcerer Healer vs. Templar Healer - End Game/Trials/Arena

Cuyler · October 2014

Hi all,

A while back I rolled a sorcerer healer hoping to max out as a viable build for trial runs. Over time I noticed requests for healers in zone chat that seem to be primarily for templar healers.

Are sorcerer healers still being sought for trial runs? and/or have templar healers began to solely fill this role? Please explain why or why not.

Any VR12-14 Sorcerer Healers and/or VR12-14 Templar Healers out there with trials/arena experience that can shed some light on what builds you've been using and what kind of numbers you can do?

I'm not looking so much for an opinion as too which you think is better, but would like an idea what some viable VR12-14 healer builds are so I can form an opinion which is best for myself.

My current build:

Class: Sorcerer
Race: High Elf
Level: VR1
Attributes: 0-49-0
Weapon 1: Restoration staff
Weapon 2: Lightning Staff
Armor: Light
5pc VR1 Warlock (3 jewelry, 2 body)
5pc VR2 Magnus Gift (5 body) <-edit
All infused traits with magicka enchants
Boon: The thief (increase crit chance)

Skill Bar #1 (Heals):
1 - Mage Light (morph - Inner Light) <-edit
2 - Surge (morph - Power Surge) <-edit
3 - Grand Healing (morph - Healing Springs)
4 - Regeneration (morph - Mutagen)
5 - Force Siphon (morph - Quick Siphon) <-edit
U - Negate Magic (morph - Suppression Field) <-edit

Skill Bar #2 (AoE):
1 - Mage Light (morph - Inner Light)
2 - Dark Exchange (morph - Dark Deal)
3 - Lightning Splash (morph - Liquid Lightning) <-edit
4 - Impulse (morph - Elemental Ring)
5 - Mages Fury (morph - Endless Fury)
U - Negate Magic (morph - Suppression Field) <-edit

All Passives for related skill lines:
Daedric Summoning
Dark Magic
Storm Calling
Destruction Staff
Restoration Staff
Light Armor
Mages Guild
Racials

I plan to get into why and when I chose to use this build in my comments.

Please post your healer builds and maybe a little as to what works or doesn't work for you in your trials or the arena.

Also please feel free to pick apart my build, just be easy on me lol.

Thanks everyone.

EDIT: I will be posting my DPS/HEALS numbers as I can get ones of relevance. I'm only VR1 so not that helpful until I can get up to a higher VR.

EDIT: Updated build with changes based off comments. Notably added Surge to Bar #1. Bar #2 now for AoE. added quick siphon to bar #1.

EDIT: I've switched my 2nd set to Magnus Gift from Seducer because my mag recovery was way OP. Magnus offers increased spell damage as well as chance to negate spell cost and was easily craftable.

EDIT: switched to negate magic Ult.

Cuyler · October 2014

s7732425ub17_ESO · October 2014

Sorcerers are great because of the Negate Magic ultimate. However, Sorcs cannot heal massive, sustained damage, but a Templar can.

tengri · October 2014

A sorcerer healer is "enough" for (almost) everything grouped in Craglorn. But not trials.

In trials there are often situations when you cant have everyone stack up for healing springs and you do not have time to chase down your customers in need with area heals; also healing ward is no replacement for fire-and-forget honor the dead, not even close.

And then there are stacking situations but with such a high amount of healing required that without 2 or 3 templars rotating their ultimate the whole raid is toast.

Sorcerer in trials = (very) good dps; if not you wasted a slot and this more often than not will come back and bite you in the arse...
And if you have a choice you dont really want or need more than 2 or 3 max here either - (unfortunately) DK/NB troops with sticks can be more useful instead... mostly because of their ultimates.

Tankqull · October 2014

i´m having both a templar and a sorc - and have played both in grp contend as a healer (in trials only the templar - but from my expirience on him i would still hold my ground as a healer in trials on my sorc)

some small additions to your build
1. ulti on your heal bar should be flawless dawnbreaker as it increases healing staff heals [edit: thx eliisra when i tested it does effect it now it doesent for what ever reason]
2. you should have surge morph active as it increases your healing output with staff heals
3. anulment and dark conversion should be backup abilities on your second bar
4. dps bar is not realy needed in a working group...

thats what my bar looks like in the arena.
when i´m in need of mana i need it now -> 2-3x equilibrium + healingward followed afterwards is faster than channeling dark conversion in most cases.
the second bar purge and both shields can be changed for dmg skills. purge can be skipped entirly if you have a templar tank.

the true issue is that playing a sorc and a templar heal is extreamly different as the templar is reactive in healing while the sorc has to be proactive. wich most sorc heals do not do.

eliisra · October 2014

Tankqull wrote: »

some small additions to your build
1. ulti on your heal bar should be flawless dawnbreaker as it increases healing staff heals.

It doesn't works for the resto heals (unless they changed it very very recently).
Been tested by several players, the weapon dmg buff from Flawless did not increase the healing from Restoration Staff spells. Tried it a couple of times myself to, unsuccessfully.

Might still be worth slotting to boost light- and heavy attacks, I guess.

Cuyler · October 2014

Well although not great news on my end I appreciate all your insights.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerers are great because of the Negate Magic ultimate. However, Sorcs cannot heal massive, sustained damage, but a Templar can.

tengri wrote: »

also healing ward is no replacement for fire-and-forget honor the dead, not even close.

It seems in terms of a base heal nothing really compares to honor the dead.

I can keep healing springs up indefinitely while I spam mutagen in between casts to try to match the heals although it takes up time that could be better spent setting up shields or dispels.

Templar wins here for sure.

tengri wrote: »

In trials there are often situations when you cant have everyone stack up for healing springs and you do not have time to chase down your customers in need with area heals

From what I see all the heals from Templar - restoring light tree are area heals. Could you point out the skill your referring to that isn't an area heal?

tengri wrote: »

also healing ward is no replacement for fire-and-forget honor the dead, not even close.

I use Healing Ward more for the shield and not so much for it's heals although an added bonus. My healing springs/mutagen spams I would compare to using Honor the dead.

tengri wrote: »

And then there are stacking situations but with such a high amount of healing required that without 2 or 3 templars rotating their ultimate the whole raid is toast.

I assume your talking about Remembrance or Practiced Incantation. Which morph is used more?

Tankqull wrote: »

when i´m in need of mana i need it now -> 2-3x equilibrium + healingward followed afterwards is faster than channeling dark conversion in most cases.

This has certainly been a debate on my skill bar...how do you deal with health management after the exchange?

I don't use a lot of stamina atm so dark exchange seemed like the way to go.

Tankqull wrote: »

the true issue is that playing a sorc and a templar heal is extreamly different as the templar is reactive in healing while the sorc has to be proactive.

I agree. I'm indefinitely casting healing springs with 2-3 mutagen spams in between casts. I can see the Templar doing a single heal for the same hp.

Tankqull wrote: »

2. you should have surge morph active as it increases your healing output with staff heals

I don't see that in the tooltip atm. I'm on eso head's skill calculator and maybe an old tooltip. It says it heals the caster only. Your talking about Critical surge I take it?

EDIT: I see it now, heal scales off the resto weapon dmg. makes sense with inner light as well but I see it may be bugged.

Cuyler · October 2014

eliisra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

some small additions to your build
1. ulti on your heal bar should be flawless dawnbreaker as it increases healing staff heals.

It doesn't works for the resto heals (unless they changed it very very recently).
Been tested by several players, the weapon dmg buff from Flawless did not increase the healing from Restoration Staff spells. Tried it a couple of times myself to, unsuccessfully.

Might still be worth slotting to boost light- and heavy attacks, I guess.

Are you referring to flawless dawnbreaker's synergy with the passive healing bonus for complete heavy attacks from Essence drain in the resto tree?

I could see the 30% heals of damage done going up with the 10% increase in dmg from flawless dawnbreaker....or is that what your saying is bugged?

Cuyler · October 2014

Tankqull wrote: »

thats what my bar looks like in the arena.

Thanks for posting your build...I will definitely try some different rotations to feel out the differences.

timidobserver · October 2014

I am annoyed by Sorcs that think they can primary heal trials. It would only work when stacking is a viable strat.

In my experience Sorcs struggle to heal Whispmother and the first phase of the mage.

tengri · October 2014

Templar healing ultimate:
The wind currently blows in favor of Remembrance because additional damage mitigation. 3 templars rotating this in a tight stacking situation helps. A *** lot.

Healing ward:
It costs way too much of your mana to throw wards at individual ppl; the shield might help for a second or two but its gone too fast and hardly ever has the time to stay up long enough to convert the rest into a heal. Waste of resources.

Healing springs:
Targeted area heal which requires ppl to stand still (or not move very far for a few seconds - not really an option in trials; stuff/mobs and no-step-into red zones are thrown at and after you from left and right, all the time. Unless you are the (usually only) tank standing still means you are dead weight. Literally.
There is always someone who gets hit full in the face by something and needs you heal asap. Rushed ceremony and its morphs (mostly honor the dead) >> everything here.

//Edit:
Dont get me wrong: healing springs: yes, of course, always, more of them. And even more. But still not enough for a lot situations.

Cuyler · October 2014

Any VR12-14 Templars that can comment on how they manage magicka?

It seems a running theme is that due to the increased magicka cost for the Templars heals compared to the resto line heals that resource management becomes an issue with Templars. Is there any merit in this? What Templar skills help with magicka management?

Initially I'd say this is where sorcerers shine as they can rely on passives like capacitor and unholy knowledge on top of dark exchange.

Tankqull · October 2014

Cuyler wrote: »

tengri wrote: »

In trials there are often situations when you cant have everyone stack up for healing springs and you do not have time to chase down your customers in need with area heals

From what I see all the heals from Templar - restoring light tree are area heals. Could you point out the skill your referring to that isn't an area heal?

two of the 3 templar abilities healing your teammates are "smart heals" they are dumb as hell(jeay on healing fireflys instead of me or my group mates ^^) but they target on their own and due to their range of 10 or 28m they cover a prety large area.

Cuyler wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

when i´m in need of mana i need it now -> 2-3x equilibrium + healingward followed afterwards is faster than channeling dark conversion in most cases.

This has certainly been a debate on my skill bar...how do you deal with health management after the exchange?

I don't use a lot of stamina atm so dark exchange seemed like the way to go.

this is where heaking ward comes into play it lasts 5 sec the heal debuff lasts 4 sec so even if you cast HW before using equi you´ll be healed in 99% of the cases back to full after the ward expires.

Cuyler wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

2. you should have surge morph active as it increases your healing output with staff heals

I don't see that in the tooltip atm. I'm on eso head's skill calculator and maybe an old tooltip. It says it heals the caster only. Your talking about Critical surge I take it?

EDIT: I see it now, heal scales off the resto weapon dmg. makes sense with inner light as well but I see it may be bugged.

[/quote]
you found out on your own

i´m not sure what you percive as bugged but, the ability to crit staff heals was bug fixed after it was broken somwhere in patch 1.2.x , and the issue that all weapon abilities including destro- and restrostaff is intentional aswell as it seems.

timidobserver · October 2014

Cuyler wrote: »

Any VR12-14 Templars that can comment on how they manage magicka?

It seems a running theme is that due to the increased magicka cost for the Templars heals compared to the resto line heals that resource management becomes an issue with Templars. Is there any merit in this? What Templar skills help with magicka management?

Initially I'd say this is where sorcerers shine as they can rely on passives like capacitor and unholy knowledge on top of dark exchange.

High Regen+Warlock+Spell Symmetry deals with my magicka management issues when healing. Templar dps struggle with magicka moreso than healers.

Though honestly, it depends on your group. A solid group with decent dps, that pops warhorns, and avoids unnecessary damage makes magicka management easier.

Cuyler · October 2014

tengri wrote: »

A sorcerer healer is "enough" for (almost) everything grouped in Craglorn. But not trials.

This is why I rolled the sorcerer healer. Considering trials is about 0.01% of this game I chose the sorc for it's better utility in 99.9% of content (can switch to dps at any time).

A Templar healer seems to be the trials niche. I probably should get on the PTS lol.

Pixysticks · October 2014

Templar healers are just better pve/pvp, hands down.

Magdalina · October 2014

As a sorc healer who has run with templar heals, I greatly envy Breath of life(and healing ulti, but first and foremost, Breath of life). It's non aoe HUGE heal, there's nothing better than that, no matter the cost. If for whatever reason group is forced to spread out and all goes low on health, sorc will have big problems - I'm not saying it's necessarily a wipe, depending on situation you can still pull out; catch some with Healing Springs, use Healing Ward a few times, spam Mutagen, hope people self heal, Negate and give people time and chance to get back together, etc. But a Templar could just use Breath of life without having to go to all these trouble.

Templars do have magicka management problems, but these are solveable with sets like Warlock/Seducer(or both) and newly empowered Resto staff heavy attack magicka return. A sorc, however, has no way of getting a good non aoe heal like Breath of life(looking forward to Spellcrafting here).

But that said...don't let it discourage you;) I've healed all vet dungeons, including COH speedrun and almost no death(1 death that time which wasn't my fault) and non vet DSA on my sorc and it's been great fun. Imo strongest sorc point is we can switch from heals to dps with ease - which, agreed, is not needed in a good group but can be insanely fun and useful if you're undermanned or something - like 2 manning vet dungeons or soloing Lower Crag delves.

I'm not really into Trials, 12 people is too much for me, I've only completed Hel Ra and that was as a dps. I don't know if I could heal it and I probably wouldn't risk it, with resurrection limit and all. But Trials really aren't all the game.

Far as actual skills go, did I miss something or are you not using everyone's favourite, Inner light? You should, nothing else gives you 20% crit chance boost like that. And you might want to put some points/enchants into health - in higher vet content some mobs hit hard and 1shot healer won't heal anyone. Besides, with resto staff heavy magicka return you don't need that a huge magicka pool anyway, at least not to sustain your heals.

I'm using 5 piece Eyes of Mara and 5 piece Healer set on my vet 14 sorc atm, it goes together pretty smoothly imho.

I have a question of my own to all the people who say they use Equilibrium as healers though - HOW? The description states it cannot be healed by you for several seconds, iirc, making it efficiently a suicide spell.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · October 2014

eliisra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

some small additions to your build
1. ulti on your heal bar should be flawless dawnbreaker as it increases healing staff heals.

It doesn't works for the resto heals (unless they changed it very very recently).
Been tested by several players, the weapon dmg buff from Flawless did not increase the healing from Restoration Staff spells. Tried it a couple of times myself to, unsuccessfully.

Might still be worth slotting to boost light- and heavy attacks, I guess.

Its probably because it raises damage without raising weapon damage stat. Some others abilities all do this and its good if your softcapping.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · October 2014

Templar can stand far away from battle and spam breath of life. Spell sym heavy attacks when its safe I can cast BoL the whole mage fight hitting anyone anywhere. Sorc simply can't compete to non stacked group heals.

Cuyler · October 2014

Magdalina wrote: »

Far as actual skills go, did I miss something or are you not using everyone's favourite, Inner light? You should, nothing else gives you 20% crit chance boost like that. And you might want to put some points/enchants into health - in higher vet content some mobs hit hard and 1shot healer won't heal anyone. Besides, with resto staff heavy magicka return you don't need that a huge magicka pool anyway, at least not to sustain your heals.

Originally I was only using it on the dps bar but have since began using it on both bars now that I was made aware that heals can crit also. In addition I'm also now using power surge in conjunction to increase heals.

Magdalina wrote: »

I have a question of my own to all the people who say they use Equilibrium as healers though - HOW? The description states it cannot be healed by you for several seconds, iirc, making it efficiently a suicide spell.

I have this issue as well and have since moved back to dark deal after trying equilibrium for awhile. maybe i'm missing something.

Francescolg · October 2014

Cuyler wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

I have a question of my own to all the people who say they use Equilibrium as healers though - HOW? The description states it cannot be healed by you for several seconds, iirc, making it efficiently a suicide spell.

I have this issue as well and have since moved back to dark deal after trying equilibrium for awhile. maybe i'm missing something.

Guys... lol... Breath of Life is mostly for group support, NOT for healing yourself. So, you cast Spell Symetry/Equi and then simply heal sb... So, it is not about healing yourself. If you wanna heal yourself simply spec the other morph.

If you feel to much "hurt" by the dmg-malus of Spell Symetry simply use the resto-bubble with the heal-morph immediately after the last Spell Symetry. Normally, s.o. else in the group will heal you! So, if you feel alone, go for puryfying ritual (or morphs), a HoT or the "red bubble".

Last not least, it is the best, absolutely the best for you, if you ain't the only healer in a group and, therefore, you get healed when applying Spell Symetry. The trick of gaining magicka for HP lies in doing it btw, every few casts, not consecutively (or yes, if you trust your other healer --> similar with purge! Do not be the only char purging. You will not hold up your group alone under siege fire!)

Joy_Division · October 2014

As others have stated, sorcs run into problems when the raid is not nicely stacked for them to spam healing springs. Healing ward simply cannot compete with breath of life because it hits 1 target and health > shield if that target is under duress.

Templars also rock extended ritual which is a very nice HoT that cleanses and increases their healing effectiveness by a fair bit. Sorcs do not have an equivalent.

Templars also have the blazing spear morph that tanks in trials love.

That being said, sorcs can heal just about anything the game throws at their group. But in very challenging encounters in which a group must spread out or maximize their effectiveness to win, raids are going to want the skills a templar brings.

As for your build, I would:

- Replace annulment with mage light - 99% of circumstances mage light will be better.
- You probably should put purge somewhere on your bar.
- I think Dark exchange on both bars is very inefficient. Force Siphon is an excellent spell to run on bosses as it eases your healing burden and gives DPS more magicka to get fight over with quicker. Alternatively volcanic rune is an excellent CC spell that will prevent damage that you otherwise would have to heal.

Cuyler · October 2014

Joy_Division wrote: »

As for your build, I would:

- Replace annulment with mage light - 99% of circumstances mage light will be better.
- You probably should put purge somewhere on your bar.
- I think Dark exchange on both bars is very inefficient. Force Siphon is an excellent spell to run on bosses as it eases your healing burden and gives DPS more magicka to get fight over with quicker. Alternatively volcanic rune is an excellent CC spell that will prevent damage that you otherwise would have to heal.

thanks for the great infos. As stated above, originally I was only using it on the dps bar but have since began using it on both bars now that I was made aware that heals can crit also. In addition I'm also now using power surge in conjunction to increase heals.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · October 2014

Magdalina wrote: »

I have a question of my own to all the people who say they use Equilibrium as healers though - HOW? The description states it cannot be healed by you for several seconds, iirc, making it efficiently a suicide spell.

I have this issue as well and have since moved back to dark deal after trying equilibrium for awhile. maybe i'm missing something.[/quote]

you CANT HEAL YOURSELF for 4 seconds. you can still heal others. in trials there is often 2 healers so they heal you anyway. if your a templar healer you can use blazing shield which lasts longer then debuff and has more hitpoints than those lost. blazing shield before spell sym is unnecessary in the first two trials but i like it in dungeons and DSA. spell symmetry also lowers next spell cost by 25% within 6 seconds or so which can be very usefull and resource efficient if used well.

Magdalina · October 2014

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

I have a question of my own to all the people who say they use Equilibrium as healers though - HOW? The description states it cannot be healed by you for several seconds, iirc, making it efficiently a suicide spell.

I have this issue as well and have since moved back to dark deal after trying equilibrium for awhile. maybe i'm missing something.

you CANT HEAL YOURSELF for 4 seconds. you can still heal others. in trials there is often 2 healers so they heal you anyway. if your a templar healer you can use blazing shield which lasts longer then debuff and has more hitpoints than those lost. blazing shield before spell sym is unnecessary in the first two trials but i like it in dungeons and DSA. spell symmetry also lowers next spell cost by 25% within 6 seconds or so which can be very usefull and resource efficient if used well.[/quote]
That's delightful, but outside of Trials...I'm the only healer. If I use Equilibrium and then get hit, I'm gonna die. The extra heal I might pull off inbetween Equilibrium and dying isn't worth it.

Equilibrium sounds like a very, VERY bad idea for main healer.

Plus, sorc healer really shouldn't have ANY magicka poblems, especially with new resto staff magicka return.

Tankqull · October 2014

Magdalina wrote: »

That's delightful, but outside of Trials...I'm the only healer. If I use Equilibrium and then get hit, I'm gonna die. The extra heal I might pull off inbetween Equilibrium and dying isn't worth it.

Equilibrium sounds like a very, VERY bad idea for main healer.

Plus, sorc healer really shouldn't have ANY magicka poblems, especially with new resto staff magicka return.

if you´re the healer out of mana and gonna be hit sth is going down the pipe anyway

equilibrium is for urgent mana refillment, if you have the time to channel dark exchange you could aswell have used healing staffs heavy attack.
as i was the one bringing up equilibrium in my first post, the qb linked in it as well gives you all the tools to cover the hp loss by shields and refill the lost HPs with healing ward nearly the second you used your last equilibrium.

HeroOfNone · October 2014

Not going to say sorcerer are great healers, however a lot of folks aren't giving them a chance to shake things out in trials. Almost any class can be a healer in some regard using a restoration staff and following the mechanics of the dungeon/trial. I admit I have gone with these min/max groups time to time to get a weekly out, but it's too much of the norm lately, folks need to take a risk.

That being said... the storm Atronach is a good dps ultimate but not a great rescue or utility. Negate magic would give a good way to knock out magical adds and abilities, and with your ultimate generation you might kick it off more than your dps counterparts. Another alternative is from the pvp lines with sturdy horn, to increase magicka, stamina, and health by 20% for 30 secs or replenishing barrier, that gives 12 man damage shields and restores ultimate and magicka when it's gone (a very over look ultimate)

Also consider sprit syphon and elemental drain, help everyone get magicka and health back. Run this in a few vet dungeons to shake out the results first.

Cuyler · October 2014

Tomato/Tomatoe I think with the Dark exchange and Equilibrium. I think its great that a sorcerer has the option to choose either based on their build or playstyle whereas everyone else is stuck simply with Equilibrium.

Cuyler · October 2014

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

That being said... the storm Atronach is a good dps ultimate but not a great rescue or utility. Negate magic would give a good way to knock out magical adds and abilities, and with your ultimate generation you might kick it off more than your dps counterparts.)

I totally agree. I originally was set up for a healer/dps build. Since picking up Wykkyd's outfitter I can now quickly switch between full heals and full dps builds with one keystroke. I now use negate magic as an ult for heals exclusively.

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

Another alternative is from the pvp lines with sturdy horn, to increase magicka, stamina, and health by 20% for 30 secs or replenishing barrier, that gives 12 man damage shields and restores ultimate and magicka when it's gone (a very over look ultimate)

I'll have to test this out thx

Tarkit · October 2014

Sorc's are better for the easier content like vet dungeons or for their ability to almost spam negate magicka with healing springs' ultimate generation.
For harder content you need Breath of Life and Templar purge in PvP

Merlin13KAGL · October 2014

Sorc's should have a healing tree - different from the 'divine' Templar abilities and more than the Restro staff available to all.

Lack of burst healing starts to get difficult after about VR6.