Sorcerer Healer vs. Templar Healer - End Game/Trials/Arena

Ezareth

I can't give you advice on the effectiveness of a sorc versus a Templar in trials but I can give you a pointer on inefficiencies that I see.

Switch back to seducer. Under no scenario can magnus be better than seducer for a sorc. Cost reductions are additive. Sorc get 5% + Light Armor 21% + (For lightning spells 10%) + Seducer 8%. Spell damage is worthless for a resto staff healer compared to Magicka Recovery even if you're past the soft cap and Magnus magicka savings work out to far less than Seducer.

Sorc healers can beat a Templar healer in terms of mana efficiency and sustain if they utilize their passives and abilities correctly.

Asgari

Templar heals are far better than Sorc heals in Trials.

A good group only needs 1 Templar to succeed in trials and no other healers until the last 10% of the mage to off heal if the DPS is lacking a bit.

Templar healers with spell symmetry just hit too hard for you to compete and id never join a group who relied on a sorc to keep them up. It just simply wont happen.

keto3000

@Cuyler‌ I also run an Altmer sorcerer as my first, main toon (now vr6). Since this is my first real MMO, I am still kind of noob when it comes to veteran combat skills. I started out planning a DPS mage build, but always got asked to heal in groups while leveling or in PvP runs, so now I have a fairly well developed heal build in addition to DPS. I use Blessing of Protection (Combat Prayer- morph) fr Resto skill line a lot in PvP and I see a lot of other sorc healers using it as well. Anyone use it in trials at all?

Khivas_Carrick

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sorc's should have a healing tree - different from the 'divine' Templar abilities and more than the Restro staff available to all.

Lack of burst healing starts to get difficult after about VR6.

That's..............Actually not an entirely bad idea when I think about it.

chipputer

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sorc's should have a healing tree - different from the 'divine' Templar abilities and more than the Restro staff available to all.

Lack of burst healing starts to get difficult after about VR6.

That's..............Actually not an entirely bad idea when I think about it.

How so?

Think carefully-- the other classes having abilities that heal themselves does not justify giving Sorcerers a tree for healing.

If you're going to argue healing via daedric magic, or anything of the sort, the lore of this time period basically paints healing via daedric influences as a pretty one sided deal in favor of the daedra and is avoided for a reason in 99% of the quest lines.

lolo_01b16_ESO

keto3000 wrote: »

I use Blessing of Protection (Combat Prayer- morph) fr Resto skill line a lot in PvP and I see a lot of other sorc healers using it as well. Anyone use it in trials at all?

Yes. I use it on my Templar and I know many healer that use it, no matter which class they have. But for me in most cases the 10% damage boost is the reason why I cast it and not the healing done.

Merlin13KAGL

chipputer wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sorc's should have a healing tree - different from the 'divine' Templar abilities and more than the Restro staff available to all.

Lack of burst healing starts to get difficult after about VR6.

That's..............Actually not an entirely bad idea when I think about it.

How so?

Think carefully-- the other classes having abilities that heal themselves does not justify giving Sorcerers a tree for healing.

If you're going to argue healing via daedric magic, or anything of the sort, the lore of this time period basically paints healing via daedric influences as a pretty one sided deal in favor of the daedra and is avoided for a reason in 99% of the quest lines.

@chipputer , why would Sorc's not have access to healing magic? They did in every standalone ~ Restoration Magic? (not just a staff)

It's not about Daedric anything. It' arcane, and there was much more breadth and depth to it in the standalone games. Even if it was (about Daedric), I suspect the majority of Mages' Guild members would not have issue with limited interaction of Daedric influences. (Ever been to Eyevea? What do think the entire Summoning line is based on?)

How does it make sense for Sorc's to not have access to magic to heal others? Are you wanting to restrict (burst) healing to templar only?

How would it not benefit you for a Sorc to be able to help you be more survivable, as a group member? Every point in a healing tree is a point not placed elsewhere.

You might as well argue that Templars not be able to do damage, because they can heal others.

Cuyler

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Switch back to seducer. Under no scenario can magnus be better than seducer for a sorc. Cost reductions are additive. Sorc get 5% + Light Armor 21% + (For lightning spells 10%) + Seducer 8%. Spell damage is worthless for a resto staff healer compared to Magicka Recovery even if you're past the soft cap and Magnus magicka savings work out to far less than Seducer.

Switched back to seducer, way better than magnus for sure.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sorc's should have a healing tree - different from the 'divine' Templar abilities and more than the Restro staff available to all.

Lack of burst healing starts to get difficult after about VR6.

That's..............Actually not an entirely bad idea when I think about it.

And it's actually somewhat that is very likely coming with the spellcrafting system it appears. I at least would be very surprised if they didn't sneak in a direct heal spell somewhere at least.

Valymer

At least a self-heal would be nice, Crit Surge doesn't really count since it relies on crits which aren't always viable

Jimm_ay

Spell Symetry + healing ward can keep you topped off...if you are focusing on healing and not taking dmg or agro - spam the ss to get magicka topped off and pop Healing ward - it will create the shield and when it pops heal you - if in a larger group with other templars or sorcs healing they can throw a heal your way once since you cannot heal yourself directly but the healing ward pop will heal you...

chipputer

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

chipputer wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sorc's should have a healing tree - different from the 'divine' Templar abilities and more than the Restro staff available to all.

Lack of burst healing starts to get difficult after about VR6.

That's..............Actually not an entirely bad idea when I think about it.

How so?

Think carefully-- the other classes having abilities that heal themselves does not justify giving Sorcerers a tree for healing.

If you're going to argue healing via daedric magic, or anything of the sort, the lore of this time period basically paints healing via daedric influences as a pretty one sided deal in favor of the daedra and is avoided for a reason in 99% of the quest lines.

@chipputer , why would Sorc's not have access to healing magic? They did in every standalone ~ Restoration Magic? (not just a staff)

It's not about Daedric anything. It' arcane, and there was much more breadth and depth to it in the standalone games. Even if it was (about Daedric), I suspect the majority of Mages' Guild members would not have issue with limited interaction of Daedric influences. (Ever been to Eyevea? What do think the entire Summoning line is based on?)

How does it make sense for Sorc's to not have access to magic to heal others? Are you wanting to restrict (burst) healing to templar only?

How would it not benefit you for a Sorc to be able to help you be more survivable, as a group member? Every point in a healing tree is a point not placed elsewhere.

You might as well argue that Templars not be able to do damage, because they can heal others.

But sorcerers DO have access to healing others-- they have the restoration staff skill line.

Sorcerers in the standalone games have been changed a lot and didn't always have restoration as a major or minor skill line.

EX: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer_(Morrowind)
versus
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer_(Oblivion)

As a matter of fact, in Morrowind they're described as warriors who rely more on magical artifacts and enchanted weaponry than anything else. The standalone games have no bearing here.

Every class is restricted to 3 different skill lines. In Sorcerer's case they got a major crowd control, damage, and defensive line. Templar got a piddle-crap damage, arguably overpowered tanking and damage, and healing to make up for the difference.

Also, summoning and binding a daedra to your will and using daedric magics to cure people are entirely different situations. I can't think of a single arcane thing that the summoner could do that isn't already covered by the templar and wouldn't end up being superfluous*.

Again, I say, think carefully.




*EDIT: On the matter of superfluous-- this is screaming to be a case of letting Sorcerers do a bit of everything, rather than an actual effective gameplay change that is necessary. In 90% of cases the Templar's dedicated healing line isn't even necessary, to begin with, and I'd argue that classes who can drop buffs on their allies are far more effective. I suppose we'd better ask that Sorcerer get a line specifically for buffing their allies, too, since in previous games they had access to Alteration Magic.

Merlin13KAGL

chipputer wrote: »

But sorcerers DO have access to healing others-- they have the restoration staff skill line.

Sorcerers in the standalone games have been changed a lot and didn't always have restoration as a major or minor skill line.

EX: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer_(Morrowind)
versus
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer_(Oblivion)

As a matter of fact, in Morrowind they're described as warriors who rely more on magical artifacts and enchanted weaponry than anything else. The standalone games have no bearing here.

Every class is restricted to 3 different skill lines. In Sorcerer's case they got a major crowd control, damage, and defensive line. Templar got a piddle-crap damage, arguably overpowered tanking and damage, and healing to make up for the difference.

Also, summoning and binding a daedra to your will and using daedric magics to cure people are entirely different situations. I can't think of a single arcane thing that the summoner could do that isn't already covered by the templar and wouldn't end up being superfluous*.

Again, I say, think carefully.




*EDIT: On the matter of superfluous-- this is screaming to be a case of letting Sorcerers do a bit of everything, rather than an actual effective gameplay change that is necessary. In 90% of cases the Templar's dedicated healing line isn't even necessary, to begin with, and I'd argue that classes who can drop buffs on their allies are far more effective. I suppose we'd better ask that Sorcerer get a line specifically for buffing their allies, too, since in previous games they had access to Alteration Magic.

@chipputer , I almost don't know where to start.

Weapon skill does not equal class skill. One of the original issues was lack of burst healing for other than Templar classes.

Access to Restoration staff, which everyone has available, does not have any burst healing options - HoT's only, unless you want to count 200 points at a time with Combat prayer or something similar.

The standalone games didn't have defined majors and minors - you chose your own, which is part of what made the limitless choices a big factor in their success. They also weren't defined by classes, unless you chose to use a pre-built.

Oblivion had a Restoration school of magic.

Morrowind had a Restoration school of magic.

Daggerfall had a Restoration school of magic.

How far back would you like to go?

And the standalone's have no bearing, eh? Where do you think the consults came from? Without TES, there would be no ESO.

I can't figure out why you're so bent against this. I'm guessing, since you consider the Templar's dedicated healing line unnecessary, you have one heck of regen, you don't take damage (ever), you don't get in fights, or you really don't get or appreciate what healers do for you.

Do you honestly think they will never expand the skill lines? Wouldn't it be interesting to be able to train in only three, but say, have four to choose from?

I'm guessing you like canned, limited builds. Most of us would like a little more latitude when it comes to our character options, especially when it's helpful to the groups we support.

I'm not asking for something without a tradeoff, but I really don't get the hostility.

I suspect spellcrafting will probably remedy this anyway. Hope it meets with your approval and fits into your line of thinking.

Cuyler

I'm certainly hoping your right @Merlin13KAGL and that spellcrafting adds the versatility for all the classes to truly "play they're own way".

Not just sorcerers, but hopefully it will allow players to craft spells to fill inefficiencies in every build. We could potentially see some very creative builds.

Valymer

Once spell crafting comes out and sorcerers get access to big quick heals (pure speculation but I am hoping), it will help a lot.

I am not quite VR14 yet but I have no problem healing any of the vet dungeons I have attempted it in (we will see about City of Ash...), as long as I am doing it with people who know what they are doing and have level-appropriate gear, etc.

No clue about trials but they sound very min-maxy and sorc might not be good enough there, but I've never tried them so can't comment really.

Merlin13KAGL

Cuyler wrote: »

I'm certainly hoping your right @Merlin13KAGL and that spellcrafting adds the versatility for all the classes to truly "play they're own way".

Not just sorcerers, but hopefully it will allow players to craft spells to fill inefficiencies in every build. We could potentially see some very creative builds.

Agreed, @Cuyler , I may not have properly stated that exclusivity is actually what I'm against, here.

Some classes should be able to do certain things better, but all classes should be able to do them.

It's why so many preferred the open skill / extended attribute system that TES provided. Having very few limitations were what made those great.

Aeratus

Sorc is a fine healer
- Surge means that sorc has the most effective healing springs of anybody
- Dark Conversion means you can always gain more magicka at the push of a button.

Functionally, the only thing that a Templar has over a Sorc is breath of life. But healing wards is essentially an instant defense mechanism. Healing springs can heal someone from 10% to 100% in just a few seconds.