Why Can't I Make a Pure Stamina Build in ESO?

Aett_Thorn

The reason that I'm not a fan of the slotted ability is that unless it's just a passive tacked onto something else, you're putting the burden onto the Stamina user. A spell-user doesn't need to take up a power slot to use Stamina to dodge. Why should a Stamina user have to take up a slot to use Magika?

I mean, you can write the passive well enough so that switching back and forth isn't a problem, too. Say, make it so that the passive only makes that switch when 4/5 powers on the bar use Stamina. That way, if you have 2 weapon skills and 3 class skills, it will still draw from Stamina. If you have 4 weapon skills and one class skill, it will draw from Magika.

Osmiumium

Rune_Relic wrote: »

No I 100% agree.
I want to see 0% magicka/spell warriors (ie physical combat) be actually viable.
Hence I have 0 points in any class at v1.

..I wanted to be that pure fighter with no magic.

AlnilamE wrote: »

I really don't care that much what pool an ability draws from, so I'm trying to wrap my head around why this is such a big deal.
.

Since it is all made-up make-believe anyway....maybe you can (further) pretend that your magicka bar isn't really magicka, but your second stamina bar just for class abilities! Maybe even get a mod that recolors it green, and renames it.

Nihil

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

defilade__ESO wrote: »

In all the other Elder Scrolls games we could make a character that was all stamina, using weapons and either used no magicka at all, or very little. In ESO every class skill line relies on the use of Magicka, and the more magicka you have the more potent they will be.

I think if there were unique weapon skills specific to our various classes it would be a step towards us being able to create a real stamina build, and not force all of us to rely so much on magicka.

So what do you think? Would you like to see changes in the game so we could create pure stamina builds? Or do you like the predominance of magicka in ESO?

Each class also has abilities that gain little to no benefit from magicka, but uses magicka as a resource. DK use hp to determine their shield, and from the testing I have done ( low lvl DK) their igneous weapons weapon damage buff does not scale off of anything. THey have reflective scale that doesn't scale off of magicka, and I bet other skills I am not thinking of right now. Sorcerers have bolt escape, and the armor / spell resistance gain from their lightning form spell. Bound armor is also not determined by magicka as well. NB and Templars probably have things too, but due to lack of playing them enough I can't speak for them.

To want to build an entire stamina build you are not using one of your entire resources. Magicka users still use the stamina resource for blocking / dodging, it only makes sense that stamina users would try and pet magicka abilities to complement their play style. Being stuck on a name of a resource pool just seems limiting. If they ended up giving weapon skills magical aspects (lightning sword attacks) would you stop using those skills?

I have a sorc that primarily focuses on duel wielding and bow/resto staff. Although most of my skills are stamina based, I compliment them with the skills that aren't determined by magicka in the class skills.

I will try to explain this from my point of view.
Lets take a hypothetical nord that hates mages.
He would detest everything about magic and its users....but...
..he is happy to pray to kyne or the divines for assistance.

1 is 1st part magic if you like used directly by the individual where they are skilled in its use.
1 is 3rd party magic where they don't get their hands dirty but rely on the gods to provide such magic on their behalf.
1 is acceptable to such a nord and 1 is not.

So if I had access to curses, blessings and that kind of thing that relies on a 3rd party to do the dirty work it wouldn't be such an issue. Having to become a MAGE with weapons is something entirely different.

If I wanted to be a mage...I would be a mage (non-fighter). If I wanted to be a battle mage ...I wold be a fighter/mage. If I wanted to be a fighter I would be a fighter (non-mage).

So why would a warrior (non-mage) want a list full of magical mage skills (or even battle mage skills) instead of a list full of physical warrior skills ?

In a game that is balanced..there is no such thing as "Cant" be that.

Roleplaying choices are notorious for not performing optimally, while it can be fun, game developers can't design everything around choices that players want to role play. Say they did make pure stamina builds a viable dps strategy, then the players who use both magicka and stamina should ( and in most cases) would still be better, and then the problem would still exist. If players want they can role play that the magic they have is a divine gift in your example ( cleric dnd) and is only granted to them through some ordain blessing. It is a choice, but no matter what you will be setting limitations on yourself.

As other players have pointed out it is possible to make a pure stamina build, and probably beat most solo content with it (group content with a group maybe).

To compare this to earlier TES games is also not the best choice, from what I remember from skyrim ( and what my friends told me about oblivion) while pure melee was viable, it was no where near as optimal as magic with melee or magic could get with creativity. Skyrim you could have armies fight each other with magic, or you could sneak attack tagets one right after another by calming them. While you could do anything in the game with pure melee (the TES games aren't really known for their difficulty either), it was no where near as optimal as combining it with magic.

Soulshine

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

defilade__ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Being completely, 100% viable is different from not being able to make one at all. Do the Devs need to keep working on balance to make it more of an option? Sure. Can you do it now, creating a 100% Stam-based build? Yes. absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing that. But you just won't be as optimized as all-Magika or mixed builds.

That sounds all well and good, just go make a stamina character, except that every class skill uses magicka.

I'm talking about the devs giving us the choice of going stamina based or magicka based, as it is now all class skills are magicka based. I'd like to see stamina based class skills for melee and ranged weapons, to compliment the magicka based class skills.

Think about what you just said. Class skills for weapons. Class skills are
For the class, weapon skills for weapons hence why class skills are not weapon skills. What you want is class skills based off stamina. But since class
Skills only make sense as magical type things then it only makes sense to have them based off magic. You wouldn't base a sword off magic would you?

Forgetting something maybe? Some NB class skills are "weapons" that just magically appear, lol - doesn't make too much sense to me if I am lugging a bow but I somehow conjure up knives in Teleport strike.... meh... kinda goofy if you ask me. Stamina based class skills for a skill that is weapon-based attack makes more sense to me

kitsinni

AlnilamE wrote: »

I really don't care that much what pool an ability draws from, so I'm trying to wrap my head around why this is such a big deal.

However, the suggestion of an FG ability that lest you convert Magica to Stamina, as the Sorc skill does Stamina to Magica seem like a good idea.

If resources were about "pools" that would make sense but in this game the amount of damage that an ability does is directly tied to how big that pool is. The reason people go heavy in one or the other is not how many times they can attack or cast it is directly tied to damage. That is why its a big deal, because if your Magicka pool is not high you barely do any damage with magicka abilities. If you stamina pool isn't big you barely do damage with stamina abilities. So if you put everything in to Stamina so that your weapon abilities do a lot of damage all of your class abilities will hit like nerf bullets because their damage is all tied to how much Magicka you have.

If they were just pools that would be great. It is probably the dumbest idea that was ever put in to a video game but it is what it is and it's a huge part of the problems ESO has.

Shaun98ca2

TheBull wrote: »

The biggest drawbacks for pure stam builds are the lack of a stam based heal and the lack of a stam based shield.

Restro Staff benefits from Stamina. The more weapon damage increases the heals on the weapon. The increased Stamina increases the Light/Heavy Attack of the weapon which in return also increases the heal off the Heavy Attack.

Not that that really means much.

kitsinni

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

The biggest drawbacks for pure stam builds are the lack of a stam based heal and the lack of a stam based shield.

Restro Staff benefits from Stamina. The more weapon damage increases the heals on the weapon. The increased Stamina increases the Light/Heavy Attack of the weapon which in return also increases the heal off the Heavy Attack.

Not that that really means much.

The heal is still not stamina based and I don't think having Stamina actually adds weapon damage so I don't think you get any return at all other than the light/heavy attack doing more damage. Stamina directly increases the damage of stamina based attack and light/heavy attacks but doesn't change your weapon damage.

wolfydog

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

TBH I don't think the devs of this game ever played a TES game before.

They got lore and stuff from beth but then used all mmo experience to make the game without feeling how an elder scrolls game plays.

I think they did play ES games before because the combat in single player ES games is just bad. You need mods to make it better. At least TESO is pretty good how it is, definatly better then other MMO's.

I understand wanting pure STA builds in single player ES games and even other MMO's I am generally the standard warrior type, but its not game breaking to me or anything. I kinda like the way it is cause I have to pick and choose a good mix so I'm making good use of both resources.

GaldorP

Stamina build = Has more Stamina than Magicka, focuses on Weapon Crit and Weapon Damage instead of Spell Crit and Spell Damage, and uses Stamina-based skills as main attacks (will of course use Magicka skills/Class skills as well).

Can do well in all areas of the game except for trials, DSA and zergball PvP. For these 3 activities, Stamina builds lack the ability to quickly regain ultimate with heals even out of combat that spell crit builds have, they also lack the sustainability of Magicka/Spell Crit builds (even with the new medium passive of 21% reduced cost and up to 150 Stamina Recovery which ticks every 2 seconds they have to constantly use Stamina potions for good sustained AoE and single target damage against enemies that are not undead or daedric). Lastly, Stamina builds lack a stackable dot status effect with a good land rate like "Burning" (exception: DK with two-handed sword) which Destruction Staff builds have (bleeding and poison effects do not stack with themselves).

MorHawk

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

<snip>

A lot of good stuff in there. +1.
Also worth noting that a lot of enemies are immune to bleed damage.

Gilvoth

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

Stamina build = they have to constantly use Stamina potions for good sustained AoE.

nightblades do not have area of effect ability skills at all, there is no area of effect skill in our skill line

Vuron

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

Stamina build = they have to constantly use Stamina potions for good sustained AoE.

nightblades do not have area of effect ability skills at all, there is no area of effect skill in our skill line

I'm not sure if you were serious, but Drain Power/Power Extraction/Sap Essence is one of the better AoE damage abilities.

All 3 ults are AoE.

Although not a damage ability, Aspect of Terror/Mass Hysteria is an AoE.

Shaun98ca2

Im still under the belief that Magicka builds should lose most if not all their Magicka gain abilities.

#1 reason Magicka builds ARE better right now is simply due to the amount of Magicka they get versus that of a Stamina build.

IF the Restro Staff didn't give back Magicka or there wasn't a Dark Exchange/Equilibrium how well do you think a Magicka build would fair against Stamina build.

I personally believe if you took away all the Magicka gain in the game you would instantly find out Stamina builds are now BETTER than Magicka builds.

The Magicka gain is what throws the balance. Adding Stamina gain to Stamina based Heavy attacks doesn't really help the balance it breaks it even more as well as taking away the "play as you want".......how does Stamina gain help a Spellcaster who wants to rock a 2 handed axe....it doesn't well might as well just pick up the Restro Staff again as it offers me Magicka gain.

MorHawk

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

Stamina build = they have to constantly use Stamina potions for good sustained AoE.

nightblades do not have area of effect ability skills at all, there is no area of effect skill in our skill line

Veil of Blades? Soul Shred?
Those are Ultimates you say? How about Path of Darkness and Drain Power then?

Gilvoth

im talking about DUEL WIELD skills not the staff and robe wearing magicka skills,

Let me be as Clear as p;osible on this because we are In-Fact talking about STAMINA build here.
nightblades do not have area of effect ability skills at all, there is no area of effect skill in our skill line.
there is one skill i think called swirl where we can spin the blades 360 degrees but its purely 110 damage is extremely weak and a waste of a skill slot.

Vuron

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

im talking about DUEL WIELD skills not the staff and robe wearing magicka skills,

Let me be as Clear as p;osible on this because we are In-Fact talking about STAMINA build here.
nightblades do not have area of effect ability skills at all, there is no area of effect skill in our skill line.
there is one skill i think called swirl where we can spin the blades 360 degrees but its purely 110 damage is extremely weak and a waste of a skill slot.

This post is part of the problem with this entire argument. "OUR" skill line? "Our" skill lines are Assassination, Shadow, and Siphoning and as we pointed out, they do have AoE.

You can't say "OUR" skill line when talking about weapons because every single class in the game has access to those same weapons. Stop confusing the Stamina issue with a NB issue.

Gilvoth

you are talking about magicka based skills, this thread is about stamina, Not magicka.

Aett_Thorn

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

you are talking about magicka based skills, this thread is about stamina, Not magicka.

Then why did you bring up Nightblade abilities?

Shunravi

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

im talking about DUEL WIELD skills not the staff and robe wearing magicka skills,

Let me be as Clear as p;osible on this because we are In-Fact talking about STAMINA build here.
nightblades do not have area of effect ability skills at all, there is no area of effect skill in our skill line.
there is one skill i think called swirl where we can spin the blades 360 degrees but its purely 110 damage is extremely weak and a waste of a skill slot.

You are not talking about nightblades, you are talking about dual wield.

Let me be as clear as possible because you are not talking about Nightblade here.
Dual wield in not exclusive to nightblades. Any class can use it. Nightblades have several area of effect spells. Dual wield has one, called whirlwind. It is the only aoe execute in the game.
Nightblades have path of darkness, power extract, lotus fan, fear, soul shred, and consuming darkness.

In the future, please research what you are talking about, it makes you sound like less of an idiot.

GnatB

As others have said: Don't get so hung up on "class skills".

If it makes you feel any better, think of ESO as a classless system, where each particularly character is only allowed to know spells from a particular spell school. One character gets darkness spells. One character gets divine spells, third gets dragon spells, fourth gets mystic spells. Using the spell skills your character has access to *is* actually optional.*


*your character may be more powerful if you don't, but it's still a viable option, at least in PvE.

Shunravi

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

you are talking about magicka based skills, this thread is about stamina, Not magicka.

Then why did you bring up Nightblade abilities?

Exactly. If you are using a pure stamina build, then you are not using your class, and you might as well not even care what class you chose.

Vuron

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

you are talking about magicka based skills, this thread is about stamina, Not magicka.

And you're talking about weapon skill lines, which have nothing, at all, to do with Nightblades. Every class has access to DW. I know Sorcs that would like to play a DW, so this is not a NB issue.

To further correct your statement, all weapon skills with the exception of 1-hand/shield have at least 1 damage AoE.

Dual Wield has 1 AoE (Whirlwind), 1/5 skills is 20% of all DW skills is AoE.
2-Handed - Cleave, 1/5 is 20% AoE.
Bow - Volley and Arrow Spray - 2/5 is 40% of skills are AoE.

Compare this to Destro Staff - Impulse - 1/5 is 20% (the same as most weapons).

Gilvoth

the thread title is:

Why Can't I Make a Pure Stamina Build in ESO?

this thread is entirely about stamina based skills and why we cant make them and to me thats a chance to talk about stamina based skills, which are weak, low damage, and basicly the weakest skills in eso.
so when you are mentioning the magicka based skills it is not part of this discussion.

Vuron

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

the thread title is:

Why Can't I Make a Pure Stamina Build in ESO?

this thread is entirely about stamina based skills and why we cant make them and to me thats a chance to talk about stamina based skills, which are weak, low damage, and basicly the weakest skills in eso.
so when you are mentioning the magicka based skills it is not part of this discussion.

I understand what you're saying, but don't confuse Stamina builds with NB builds as they are not the same thing. Saying "Our" skill lines when talking about only Dual Wield ability does nothing but confuse the issue. The problem isn't with NB's, it's with the weapon skill trees.

If someone wants to use a pure weapon build with no class skills, than it really doesn't matter what class they pick because the only difference would be the passives. At that point, you're not even a NB, you'd just be a DW user.

MorHawk

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

the thread title is:

Why Can't I Make a Pure Stamina Build in ESO?

this thread is entirely about stamina based skills and why we cant make them and to me thats a chance to talk about stamina based skills, which are weak, low damage, and basicly the weakest skills in eso.
so when you are mentioning the magicka based skills it is not part of this discussion.

Oh Shortsheath. You never cease to provide entertainment.
Since others have attempted and failed to explain your mistakes, perhaps I can remind you of your quote that started this farce?

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

nightblades do not have area of effect ability skills at all, there is no area of effect skill in our skill line

Emphasis added, for your convenience. You were the one who started talking about class lines, not us.

Shunravi

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

the thread title is:

Why Can't I Make a Pure Stamina Build in ESO?

this thread is entirely about stamina based skills and why we cant make them and to me thats a chance to talk about stamina based skills, which are weak, low damage, and basicly the weakest skills in eso.
so when you are mentioning the magicka based skills it is not part of this discussion.

We are fully aware of that fact. However, when you say

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

nightblades do not have area of effect ability skills at all, there is no area of effect skill in our skill line

You are no longer talking about weapons and stamina builds, you are talking about a class. It is a completely different subject. a subject that involves majica. And when you say that nightblades have no area of effect skills in our line, you make yourself sound like a fool. There is at least one aoe effect in each of the nightblades skill lines.

Soloeus

You mean you want to force me to play "your way" by changing my class skills into stamina skills? No.

Hybrid Builds are the best, period. And, Stamina Builds should NOT be viable. Refusing to use your Class Abilities should get you slaughtered.

What if I want to go unarmed and unarmored and use only Guild/World/Alliance War Skills and be as perfectly good for all content as a properly equipped character?

This is not an issue of "stamina builds should be good" this is an issue of general maturity. If you are mature, you study the mechanics and use what works while looking for new, better ways.

If you refuse to use the optimal build for trials or correct gameplay in PVP, don't cry when people drop you from groups.

The game should not be changed to appease you. Learn how to use your class abilities. Sorry the game doesn't allow you to have a great character when you refuse to use your abilities. You actually can go naked, and unarmed, you can go use all stamina abilities. And you will be as good as you should be.

Gilvoth

Soloeus wrote: »

You mean you want to force me to play "your way" by changing my class skills into stamina skills? No.

Hybrid Builds are the best, period. And, Stamina Builds should NOT be viable. Refusing to use your Class Abilities should get you slaughtered.

What if I want to go unarmed and unarmored and use only Guild/World/Alliance War Skills and be as perfectly good for all content as a properly equipped character?

This is not an issue of "stamina builds should be good" this is an issue of general maturity. If you are mature, you study the mechanics and use what works while looking for new, better ways.

If you refuse to use the optimal build for trials or correct gameplay in PVP, don't cry when people drop you from groups.

The game should not be changed to appease you. Learn how to use your class abilities. Sorry the game doesn't allow you to have a great character when you refuse to use your abilities. You actually can go naked, and unarmed, you can go use all stamina abilities. And you will be as good as you should be.

thats an excelent point, and i do use those other skills that are magicka based.
and thank you by the way for focusing on the thread subject and not my imperfections in speech.
the skills in the stamina based skill line tho, they should not be as weak as they are. - with the limited amount of skill slots -

kitsinni

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

you are talking about magicka based skills, this thread is about stamina, Not magicka.

Even with 0 points in Magicka you still have plenty to use Power Extraction (AE the best ultimate gain AE in game) which will buff your weapon damage up to 99% which directly effects your stamina build. In fact if you are a NB and plan to use WW with a 100% stamina build doing AE pulls I would think it is extremely foolish not to use Power Extraction even in a full stamina build.

MorHawk

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

thats an excelent point, and i do use those other skills that are magicka based.
and thank you by the way for focusing on the thread subject and not my imperfections in speech.
the skills in the stamina based skill line tho, they should not be as weak as they are. - with the limited amount of skill slots -

"Oops. I made a mistake. Sorry.". Try it. It's fun, I promise.
For the record, I agree. I've got into a number of debates here that regen isn't the only issue with stamina builds. The skills themselves are, in many cases, very lackluster in comparison to their magicka equivalents.