Why Can't I Make a Pure Stamina Build in ESO?

defilade__ESO

In all the other Elder Scrolls games we could make a character that was all stamina, using weapons and either used no magicka at all, or very little. In ESO every class skill line relies on the use of Magicka, and the more magicka you have the more potent they will be.

I think if there were unique weapon skills specific to our various classes it would be a step towards us being able to create a real stamina build, and not force all of us to rely so much on magicka.

So what do you think? Would you like to see changes in the game so we could create pure stamina builds? Or do you like the predominance of magicka in ESO?

dharbert

It uses the search function....

Khami

There isn't anything keep you from using a per stamina build. You won't be using your class abilities.

If you want to be gated on which weapon each class could use, go play something else.

There's nothing wrong with being able to play any way I want. My NB does all three roles. No other game allows you to do that.

Rune_Relic

No I 100% agree.
I want to see 0% magicka/spell warriors (ie physical combat) be actually viable.
Hence I have 0 points in any class at v1.

When you think of the trailers....
1x DC Assassin (pure stamina).
1x EP Fighter (pure health).
1x AD Mage (pure magicka).
..I wanted to be that pure fighter with no magic.

I expected them ti be equally viable....truth is magicka or GTFO

Meh....I'll persevere and hope the designers some day live up to the image they cast. Anyone actually remember this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGK57vfI97w

Aeratus

Compared to other ES games, ESO was designed to be flashy. Hence, the overuse of spells.

In Skyrim, you can make a realistic warrior/archer. In ESO, even the stamina weapons use unrealistic effects.

In Skyrim, your character shoots one arrow at a time. In ESO, your character shoots 20 arrows at a time, and the arrows can even crack the earth and set it ablaze.

Aett_Thorn

Being completely, 100% viable is different from not being able to make one at all. Do the Devs need to keep working on balance to make it more of an option? Sure. Can you do it now, creating a 100% Stam-based build? Yes. absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing that. But you just won't be as optimized as all-Magika or mixed builds.

Rodario

Nothing's stopping you from using only weapon/fighter's guild skills. From what I've seen, bow might be close to viable this way.

Mumyo

U can have proper stamina builds but u cant go for them solo!
If u like playing stamina style i recommend you to go hybrid which is actually stronger then many magica speccs.

heyguyslol

defilade__ESO wrote: »

In all the other Elder Scrolls games we could make a character that was all stamina, using weapons and either used no magicka at all, or very little. In ESO every class skill line relies on the use of Magicka, and the more magicka you have the more potent they will be.

I think if there were unique weapon skills specific to our various classes it would be a step towards us being able to create a real stamina build, and not force all of us to rely so much on magicka.

So what do you think? Would you like to see changes in the game so we could create pure stamina builds? Or do you like the predominance of magicka in ESO?

Because the game mechanics were not designed to do so. Stamina abilities were made to work in conjunction with your class abilities. They were not intended to be used in a manner for which they became your primary source of offensive and defensive abilities. However, because players have cried about this for months zos is adding in better resource management for stam builds which will most likely unbalance game mechanics for pvp but hey no one here cares about pvp only pve so that makes it ok.

R1ckyDaMan

TBH I don't think the devs of this game ever played a TES game before.

They got lore and stuff from beth but then used all mmo experience to make the game without feeling how an elder scrolls game plays.

That is how it feels anyway, just my opinion of course.

Aett_Thorn

No other Elder Scrolls game has needed to worry about how things would play in a multi-player environment. Your character could be as overpowered as you wanted it to be, but that doesn't work out in a multiplayer game. As such, there are going to be mistakes made when you try to merge both TES and MMO trying to get the feel down.

defilade__ESO

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Being completely, 100% viable is different from not being able to make one at all. Do the Devs need to keep working on balance to make it more of an option? Sure. Can you do it now, creating a 100% Stam-based build? Yes. absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing that. But you just won't be as optimized as all-Magika or mixed builds.

That sounds all well and good, just go make a stamina character, except that every class skill uses magicka.

I'm talking about the devs giving us the choice of going stamina based or magicka based, as it is now all class skills are magicka based. I'd like to see stamina based class skills for melee and ranged weapons, to compliment the magicka based class skills.

ers101284b14_ESO

defilade__ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Being completely, 100% viable is different from not being able to make one at all. Do the Devs need to keep working on balance to make it more of an option? Sure. Can you do it now, creating a 100% Stam-based build? Yes. absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing that. But you just won't be as optimized as all-Magika or mixed builds.

That sounds all well and good, just go make a stamina character, except that every class skill uses magicka.

I'm talking about the devs giving us the choice of going stamina based or magicka based, as it is now all class skills are magicka based. I'd like to see stamina based class skills for melee and ranged weapons, to compliment the magicka based class skills.

Think about what you just said. Class skills for weapons. Class skills are
For the class, weapon skills for weapons hence why class skills are not weapon skills. What you want is class skills based off stamina. But since class
Skills only make sense as magical type things then it only makes sense to have them based off magic. You wouldn't base a sword off magic would you?

defilade__ESO

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

defilade__ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Being completely, 100% viable is different from not being able to make one at all. Do the Devs need to keep working on balance to make it more of an option? Sure. Can you do it now, creating a 100% Stam-based build? Yes. absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing that. But you just won't be as optimized as all-Magika or mixed builds.

That sounds all well and good, just go make a stamina character, except that every class skill uses magicka.

I'm talking about the devs giving us the choice of going stamina based or magicka based, as it is now all class skills are magicka based. I'd like to see stamina based class skills for melee and ranged weapons, to compliment the magicka based class skills.

Think about what you just said. Class skills for weapons. Class skills are
For the class, weapon skills for weapons hence why class skills are not weapon skills. What you want is class skills based off stamina. But since class
Skills only make sense as magical type things then it only makes sense to have them based off magic. You wouldn't base a sword off magic would you?

I know what i said, it's only one suggestion for incorporating more stamina based skills. Of course class based stamina skills would be the best, but it does not seem like the devs wanted to that, so they made all class skills magicka based. Stamina skills based off weapon types, unique to each class is just one more idea, it would help make our builds and skill choices even more varied.

ExiledKhallisi

They need to add some awesome Ultimates to Weapons. And create a new resource for blocking/sprinting/dodging.

That would solve it all. But ZOS seems to either not care, or not understand.

ers101284b14_ESO

defilade__ESO wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

defilade__ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Being completely, 100% viable is different from not being able to make one at all. Do the Devs need to keep working on balance to make it more of an option? Sure. Can you do it now, creating a 100% Stam-based build? Yes. absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing that. But you just won't be as optimized as all-Magika or mixed builds.

That sounds all well and good, just go make a stamina character, except that every class skill uses magicka.

I'm talking about the devs giving us the choice of going stamina based or magicka based, as it is now all class skills are magicka based. I'd like to see stamina based class skills for melee and ranged weapons, to compliment the magicka based class skills.

Think about what you just said. Class skills for weapons. Class skills are
For the class, weapon skills for weapons hence why class skills are not weapon skills. What you want is class skills based off stamina. But since class
Skills only make sense as magical type things then it only makes sense to have them based off magic. You wouldn't base a sword off magic would you?

I know what i said, it's only one suggestion for incorporating more stamina based skills. Of course class based stamina skills would be the best, but it does not seem like the devs wanted to that, so they made all class skills magicka based. Stamina skills based off weapon types, unique to each class is just one more idea, it would help make our builds and skill choices even more varied.

Ok I think I get what your saying now. But I think adding class skills based off weapons would take a long time to try to make and incorporate and take even longer to balance. Right now the class skills are about all that seperate people. I think doing it your way would force more people into 1 meta build.

Now don't take this as gospel but right now they are making stamina as viable as magica correct? And each class as viable as the next correct? So they can do each individually and really see how it goes. But doing it your way they would have to interconnect and try to balance all at the same time making it near impossible.

If I did not understand exactly then I apologize for rambling and wasting this space to sound like a mad man.

Sav72

I agree, pure stamina would be nice, problem is you cant get to 1k dps like other builds.

Which means good luck then getting into a raid

Rune_Relic

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

defilade__ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Being completely, 100% viable is different from not being able to make one at all. Do the Devs need to keep working on balance to make it more of an option? Sure. Can you do it now, creating a 100% Stam-based build? Yes. absolutely nothing is stopping you from doing that. But you just won't be as optimized as all-Magika or mixed builds.

That sounds all well and good, just go make a stamina character, except that every class skill uses magicka.

I'm talking about the devs giving us the choice of going stamina based or magicka based, as it is now all class skills are magicka based. I'd like to see stamina based class skills for melee and ranged weapons, to compliment the magicka based class skills.

Think about what you just said. Class skills for weapons. Class skills are
For the class, weapon skills for weapons hence why class skills are not weapon skills. What you want is class skills based off stamina. But since class
Skills only make sense as magical type things then it only makes sense to have them based off magic. You wouldn't base a sword off magic would you?

Sneak bonuses.
Dodge bonuses.
crit bonuses
reflex bonues.
range

These things are not completely weapon related....they are character related or "class" if you like. They don't rely on magicka if anything they rely on stamina.

Spells...well yes they rely on magica.

There are also general combat abilities that aren't weapon or armour specific which could also go into "class" abilities and not use magicka.

Would be better to split the system into physical skills off of health, mental skills of of stamina and magical skills of off magica.

So yes...ESO has pure magicka for class != HAD to use magicka for class. Its just another example of a poorly designed and completely unbalanced/unbalancable system.

Stranglehands

It's simple. You get a magicka pool that gets bigger every time you level up. Even if you don't put any attrib points into it you've still got a load of magicka that's sitting there unused if you don't equip any magicka abilities. You can't make the sort of character you can make in the single player games that's totally useless at magic, it works differently. In ESO everyone is some kind of battlemage, that's what it boils down to

Nihil

defilade__ESO wrote: »

In all the other Elder Scrolls games we could make a character that was all stamina, using weapons and either used no magicka at all, or very little. In ESO every class skill line relies on the use of Magicka, and the more magicka you have the more potent they will be.

I think if there were unique weapon skills specific to our various classes it would be a step towards us being able to create a real stamina build, and not force all of us to rely so much on magicka.

So what do you think? Would you like to see changes in the game so we could create pure stamina builds? Or do you like the predominance of magicka in ESO?

Each class also has abilities that gain little to no benefit from magicka, but uses magicka as a resource. DK use hp to determine their shield, and from the testing I have done ( low lvl DK) their igneous weapons weapon damage buff does not scale off of anything. THey have reflective scale that doesn't scale off of magicka, and I bet other skills I am not thinking of right now. Sorcerers have bolt escape, and the armor / spell resistance gain from their lightning form spell. Bound armor is also not determined by magicka as well. NB and Templars probably have things too, but due to lack of playing them enough I can't speak for them.

To want to build an entire stamina build you are not using one of your entire resources. Magicka users still use the stamina resource for blocking / dodging, it only makes sense that stamina users would try and pet magicka abilities to complement their play style. Being stuck on a name of a resource pool just seems limiting. If they ended up giving weapon skills magical aspects (lightning sword attacks) would you stop using those skills?

I have a sorc that primarily focuses on duel wielding and bow/resto staff. Although most of my skills are stamina based, I compliment them with the skills that aren't determined by magicka in the class skills.

MorHawk

dharbert wrote: »

It uses the search function....

...or it gets the hose again... >_>

Rune_Relic

Stranglehands wrote: »

It's simple. You get a magicka pool that gets bigger every time you level up. Even if you don't put any attrib points into it you've still got a load of magicka that's sitting there unused if you don't equip any magicka abilities. You can't make the sort of character you can make in the single player games that's totally useless at magic, it works differently. In ESO everyone is some kind of battlemage, that's what it boils down to

10/10 for making our point

Rune_Relic

Nihil wrote: »

defilade__ESO wrote: »

In all the other Elder Scrolls games we could make a character that was all stamina, using weapons and either used no magicka at all, or very little. In ESO every class skill line relies on the use of Magicka, and the more magicka you have the more potent they will be.

I think if there were unique weapon skills specific to our various classes it would be a step towards us being able to create a real stamina build, and not force all of us to rely so much on magicka.

So what do you think? Would you like to see changes in the game so we could create pure stamina builds? Or do you like the predominance of magicka in ESO?

Each class also has abilities that gain little to no benefit from magicka, but uses magicka as a resource. DK use hp to determine their shield, and from the testing I have done ( low lvl DK) their igneous weapons weapon damage buff does not scale off of anything. THey have reflective scale that doesn't scale off of magicka, and I bet other skills I am not thinking of right now. Sorcerers have bolt escape, and the armor / spell resistance gain from their lightning form spell. Bound armor is also not determined by magicka as well. NB and Templars probably have things too, but due to lack of playing them enough I can't speak for them.

To want to build an entire stamina build you are not using one of your entire resources. Magicka users still use the stamina resource for blocking / dodging, it only makes sense that stamina users would try and pet magicka abilities to complement their play style. Being stuck on a name of a resource pool just seems limiting. If they ended up giving weapon skills magical aspects (lightning sword attacks) would you stop using those skills?

I have a sorc that primarily focuses on duel wielding and bow/resto staff. Although most of my skills are stamina based, I compliment them with the skills that aren't determined by magicka in the class skills.

I will try to explain this from my point of view.
Lets take a hypothetical nord that hates mages.
He would detest everything about magic and its users....but...
..he is happy to pray to kyne or the divines for assistance.

1 is 1st part magic if you like used directly by the individual where they are skilled in its use.
1 is 3rd party magic where they don't get their hands dirty but rely on the gods to provide such magic on their behalf.
1 is acceptable to such a nord and 1 is not.

So if I had access to curses, blessings and that kind of thing that relies on a 3rd party to do the dirty work it wouldn't be such an issue. Having to become a MAGE with weapons is something entirely different.

If I wanted to be a mage...I would be a mage (non-fighter). If I wanted to be a battle mage ...I wold be a fighter/mage. If I wanted to be a fighter I would be a fighter (non-mage).

So why would a warrior (non-mage) want a list full of magical mage skills (or even battle mage skills) instead of a list full of physical warrior skills ?

In a game that is balanced..there is no such thing as "Cant" be that.

Varicite

Rodario wrote: »

Nothing's stopping you from using only weapon/fighter's guild skills. From what I've seen, bow might be close to viable this way.

Alliance war skills too. : )

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

you can do it though! I mean I wouldn't recommend not using ANY spells - things like surge, mark target, molten weapons and sun shield all come in handy regardless of your magicka pool!

ghengis_dhan

I definitely agree that you should be able to build a pure stamina build. As a sorcerer mage, I use Dark Exchange to convert stamina to magicka. I rarely use stamina for anything else except when I need to block.

Pure stamina builds should have the same thing. I'd like to see a new ability added to the Fighter's Guild skill line that converts magicka to stamina. Call it something non-magickal (like "Stendarr's Blessing"), and melee players have the choice to abandon all magicka in exchange for one slot on their bar.


EDIT: BTW...it does bother me that you see so many Nord mages and battlemages. As a culture, they pretty much dislike the use of magic.

kitsinni

I have a pure stamina PvP NB. It is pretty niche and kind of tough to play. The only class skill I use is Shadowy Disguise. I quit playing him after 1.4 since he completely relies on stealth and shadowy disguise working to have any chance of survival. He is able to stay in the top 5-10% of the alliance in AP in the busiest campaign. It will never get you emperor and probably sucks for PvE but it does work. Actually since he was the only character I played and 1.4 neutered him I have actually found other games I enjoy since 1.4 was released so I'm not sure I'll even come back to bother again.

Aett_Thorn

Heck, I'd be fine with a passive in the Fighter's Guild that made it so that dodge's, CC breaks, etc drained magika instead of stamina. Call it something like "Inner Will" or something, and it would make sense that instead of directing your magika outwards into the world (spells), that you use it to power your own movements.

We'd still need more and more varied abilities that use Stamina, but it would free up Stamina to be just for those abilities, and magika would be used for all of the extraneous stuff.

ghengis_dhan

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Heck, I'd be fine with a passive in the Fighter's Guild that made it so that dodge's, CC breaks, etc drained magika instead of stamina. Call it something like "Inner Will" or something, and it would make sense that instead of directing your magika outwards into the world (spells), that you use it to power your own movements.

I agree with the need, but the problem with a passive is that a player who switches between pure magicka and pure stamina would have to respec every time. I'd rather see an ability that gives what you describe when slotted. Maybe a morph on the Trap Beast ability. (Does anyone use that ability?)


EDIT: Or, maybe an ability that toggles. When on, dodge's, breaks, blocking, etc. consume magicka. When off, they consume stamina. This, by the way, would be perfect for a tank who has to block all the time.

AlnilamE

I really don't care that much what pool an ability draws from, so I'm trying to wrap my head around why this is such a big deal.

However, the suggestion of an FG ability that lest you convert Magica to Stamina, as the Sorc skill does Stamina to Magica seem like a good idea.

TheBull

The biggest drawbacks for pure stam builds are the lack of a stam based heal and the lack of a stam based shield.