Is this game a success or not ?

Mablung

Tiago17 wrote: »

This Game will NEVER be as good as Pre CU SWG.

What made SWG so good was the skill based system and the community. Former Bloodfin player here!

Selodaoc

The lack of classbalancing and the lack of communication from the developers about it will make alot of people leave.
Adding notes about "fixing" things that will have no impact on the classes that needs severe ovarhauls just makes people angrier.

Also the stuttering, lagg and delay in both PvE and mostly PvP is quite gamebreaking. Even with only 120ms it feels like 400ms in other mmos

grizzbi

People often forget that the game has not been in development for 2 months. There was a beta before the release. And an alpha before the beta.

It's now more than 6 years! 6 years. (and 200 000 000 USD...)
Indie dev team are able to get a better balance for classes and game mechanics in ONE single year.

I expected much more. And I was not the only one. I thought that they worked on the engine, the world, the quests and that - after the release -they would have all the tools to be able to balance the game week after week. With all the money at their disposal , and all the talented people , there were no reason to fail. But it's a fact: for some reason, they are so SLOW.

They are just not able to fix things in time. And - obviously - even less able to balance the game at all.

They just don't have what it takes to take the right decisions. Or they were kidnapped...I don't know..seriously it's a mystery.

Why do I still play? Because this mmo had the greatest settings (low fantasy) and potential (sandbox). I can't believe that I have spent 2 months and that I'll have to leave because I misunderstood what this game really was. I feel bad. But that's life. No drama. Just a bad feeling.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

Mortelus wrote: »

the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »

Definitely hasn't. The only people who are leaving are people who thought this was Skyrim online, or this is their first MMO launch (You think this is bad, google hte first 6 months of WoW....or literally any other MMO). After about 6 months it'll be fair to start judging lag/bugs.

Really the only people...

I have a long history in MMO's dating back to 1998, moreover I came here expecting a good working MMO, not broken classes and bots running wild.

So that's at least one person who disproves your theory.

I will keep an eye on this games development and may return in a few months if thing are fixed.

Oh really?

If you've relaly been gaming that long you surely must remember that at launch, for example, most of WoW's servers were either down (some for an upwards of TWENTY DAYS) and the ones that weren't had queues to enter that were upwards in the THOUSANDS.

note: I like using WoW because most people are familiar with it, but really...feel free to google any mmo launch/their bugs/server stability.

Anyone who has actually been gaming for a while and has been to many MMO launches knows that this is no different.

KiwiKutKu

Too early to say in my opinion... Wait till this game has been out a year or two and we'll see if it is a success or failure then.

Adramelach

Well, I agree with the Forbes article, especially in one big respect: Who was asking for a MMO?

I was not... never wanted "Massive Multiplayer Online" with "megaservers." I still cringe seeing a zillion hopping, scampering other players in a "sedate" town, as I try to listen to the music and get into the "Elder Scrolls" experience, as I've had for many years with the single-player games.

What I, and many folks I talk to regarding Skyrim and such, have wanted all along was "LMO" - i.e. Limited Multiplayer Online, or basically, a perhaps up-to-four player co-op mode. Frankly, I would have been extremely happy to just get a two-player co-op mode.

Skyrim Co-Op would have pretty much set me straight and had me perfectly content for perhaps years to come, as I would have been able to explore with a friend and jointly share experiences, quests, and still maintain a "close" and private feel to the experience, and that I, or perhaps myself and a friend, were still the "main characters" in the epic drama.

Now, as I mill around with the throngs in the public dungeons, attempting to get credit for the boss that's hacked down so fast he doesn't have time to even get his dialog out or sometimes, I can't actually make out what he even is, or run around competing with them to gather resources or attempt to get my slice of the high-xp "kills" in the high-spawn-rate killing fields, or as I stand three-deep talking to the NPC in the quest about my "unique" position in the world and how it all comes down to me (and the 10 or 12 other folks and their flocks of metallic, summoned creatures making a racket and swatting me in the face with their wings), I can't help but feel a bit less-than-unique in my world-saving position.

Pile on top of that PvP, where I happen not to be a V12, vampiric emperor, and thus spend my time as an enlisted guy in the ranks, joining up with dozens of others sometimes in large battles where personal contribution is less-than-world-saving, and overall, you feel a lot more like "one of the crowd" than "the dragonborn that saves the world".

Not to say ESO isn't entertaining, and I pay my dues and will continue to, especially as, so far, I've not completed the PvE content, and it seems my sorcerer isn't as badly bugged as the poor NBs and even some others. However, there's no doubt that "MMO" and "Elder Scrolls" wasn't any kind of obvious match-made-in-heaven, and there's a lot of what ES is about from a personal experience point of view that is entirely incompatible with the MMO format and concept.

Maybe somebody can still work out how to do Co-Op Skyrim

coryevans_3b14_ESO

kaosodin wrote: »

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

Well by the look of your list, OP, you already made up your mind on the state of the game. My question to you is this: Why are you still spending time and money on something you already wrote off as a failure?

Exactly. Kick rocks and move on. Dont like the game, dont play, dont come here trolling, acting like we care your canceling.

Be a adult......make a decision and act on it..... if you leave, leave....quit acting like the spurned girlfriend and hanging around.

To many people acting like there owed something.

Agreed. It does show a kind of desperation. "Please don't like what I don't like or I am not whole!"

Falmer

Personally, I consider the game a success. What ZOS needs to do is promote the game to the right demographic of people.

They typical MMO players seem to be the ones that hate the game. While people like me who usually stick to single player games love it. ZOS needs to get the word out to more of the single player audience to try this game.

Then it could make it. ZOS did an amazing job on the story/content/quests.

However, its not a game for those that simply want to race to max level without ever talking to an NPC who doesn't have a triangle over their heads.

Wintersage

Falmer wrote: »

Personally, I consider the game a success. What ZOS needs to do is promote the game to the right demographic of people.

Yeah, but the general consensus is that particular demographic are those who possess really low standards.

Until such time as the General Discussion forum outpaces the Customer Support forum in thread count (By a significant margin) ZOS has more pressing issues to worry about than promotion and advertising.

Besides, the best advertising would be a fully-functional game.

GreySix

Adramelach wrote: »

Well, I agree with the Forbes article, especially in one big respect: Who was asking for a MMO?

I was not... never wanted "Massive Multiplayer Online" with "megaservers." I still cringe seeing a zillion hopping, scampering other players in a "sedate" town, as I try to listen to the music and get into the "Elder Scrolls" experience, as I've had for many years with the single-player games.

Wanted a cooperative TES game, and knew that an MMO [should] provide that. Would rather not pay $15 for the privilege of cooperative play with one other player ... but there it is.

edu.journeymanub17_ESO

I don't think it is a success right now, but there are the console players to be milked, you know, console games, MMO, are not that great and even some average concept/design will be delightful for some players there.

And I bet we, PC gamers, are doing a great beta for them right now, although, the press can put a dent on Bethesda/Zenimax competency to manage some MMO, there will be plenty of ppl coming and playing, most of them are newcomers to MMO and that helps a lot, not to talk they don't read game press

I'm a big fan of Elder Scrolls series, I really love them, started with Morrowind and I can't even remember how much time ago. And I'm a big fan of MMOs as well, playing EVE (3 accounts since 2006), LotRO (since 2008), GW2 (almost 1 year there) among other games that could not keep me for more than some days. My problem with TESO is just, well, I don't feel playing my beloved ES series nor my beloved MMOs, it seems like it is lost in between, it was awesome in the beginning, all the new graphics, music, story, voiced NPCs and everything else that is good on this game, but then, it came the bots, the cheaters, the bugs, the "balances", the patches that break more than fix and, to my frustration, the veteran leveling, I'm not having fun there in the Vet zones anymore, I have to say.

OFC, it's not a success FOR me, but hey, I don't like WoW as well and I'm pretty sure WoW is a success for millions of ppl, isn't?

Elder_Thorn

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

*OP's wall of text*

Point by point:

People hitting V12 in one day after release

Maybe it's not designed for people who do nothing at all besides gaming. That's not meant in a negative way, but seriously, i just hit v1 and i consider myself to be playing to much. There is more content in the making and people like those, who just rush through the content, playing 24/7 and then demanding *MUH CONTENT BRA!* are the first ones to cry and yell *FIX EXISTING CONTENT FIRST, THEN BRING NEW CONTENT!*

We're not getting hot fixes

I didn't experience a need for those, yet. Maybe they never had a bug free version of whatever you wanted to be hotfixed? Would you want a hotfix to introduce more bugs?
On the other hand, i can not talk about your NB issues, not playing NB. I am not sure if you know the difference between a patch and a hotfix though. But i agree, waiting for the next CONTENT patch for class related bugs is kind of... odd. But again: Maybe they don't have a working version yet, because they might not know what the problem on their end is.

There's no reward system from dungeons

Yeah, i had a discussion about that in zone chat a few days ago. Some people actually statet, that it would DISencourage dungeon farming they way it is.
IMO it encourages farming and also takes away the feeling of reward that even the bosses more often than not drop just a soul gem and some white useless stuff.
On the other hand, the non-Veteran Dungeons were so easy, an epic drop on every boss would be totally over the top. I didn't play veteran dungeons yet, so i can not talk about those.

PVP system isn't rewarding (or lacking true fun)

So it's not fun to you, are you speaking for everyone?
I kind of like it. Yes, i'd like more opportunitys for small scale pvp, but tbh you can make those opportunitys for yourself, you just need to be willing to lose a lot while you are learning how to do it. That's the case in any PvP game that makes mass PvP possible (eg EvE, Planetside - you CAN be very effective allone or in small groups, you will just die more than in a blob)

We're getting game changes based certain player interest and not as a whole (i.e. RPers wanted collision, so we all were forced to endure it. that's just one example, this isn't pointing fingers at RPers.)

I don't know if that's true tbh. I don't think collisions are a bad thing. Horseriders blocking bridges and kicking people off the bridge who try to cross are fun But maybe i can just say that, because i always loved EvE for it's opportunitys to be a jerk.

Not able to group with friends that need help with quests due to the phasing system

I totally agree! That's just annoying, but afaik they are working on a solution.

frwinters_ESO

The game is and will be a success. There is always drop off after the first few months of a game and with a new title just starting more will leave. After another month or two more bugs will be fixed, more content will be added, people will get curious of whats changed and come back for a month or two. Its the life cycle of just about every mmo now.

Zabalah

Stay away from the forums... they are poison.

fyendiarb16_ESO

Whether or not a game is a success is in the eyes of the beholder. My eyes say it is a smashing success, but I do not know how the investors see it.

Adramelach

GreySix wrote: »

Adramelach wrote: »

Well, I agree with the Forbes article, especially in one big respect: Who was asking for a MMO?

I was not... never wanted "Massive Multiplayer Online" with "megaservers." I still cringe seeing a zillion hopping, scampering other players in a "sedate" town, as I try to listen to the music and get into the "Elder Scrolls" experience, as I've had for many years with the single-player games.

Wanted a cooperative TES game, and knew that an MMO [should] provide that. Would rather not pay $15 for the privilege of cooperative play with one other player ... but there it is.

That's just it - while a MMO *might* be able to provide a Co-Op like experience, the problem is that it takes it too far, and the "Massively Multiplayer" part kicks in. While I'd love to coop a romp through a dungeon with a buddy or two, I'm not as thrilled romping through the dungeon with 20 or 30 other random people.

There are several major problems with "opening the floodgates" like that, as the throng steamrolls over anything in its path, including the bosses, making the challenge evaporate. In a couple dungeons I had to go back, poking around and waiting for the "end boss" that actually got you the achievement for doing it, who had been wiped out so quickly by the sprinting "front runners" that I never even saw him the first time through. That's not exactly "immersive" play.

And I think that's really the heart of my issue - The Elder Scrolls legacy has never been about being "one of many". I feel sometimes in ESO I should be standing in a battalion, chanting "This is my staff. There are many like it, but this one is mine..." before marching off with the rest of the grunts to mow over dozens of mobs, scavenging for drops.

Sure, it's not always like that - during slow hours in certain areas, it's nice when the population is down and I can actually feel that immersive sense of being unique and important to the plot, etc. Brings back some of the ES feel, and having my friend along is perfect for that Co-Op enhanced, yet intimate feel of the PvE when it's good and the crowds and bots have moved on for a bit.

But when the MO starts getting "Massive" it can really lose the magic quickly.

GreySix

Adramelach wrote: »

That's just it - while a MMO *might* be able to provide a Co-Op like experience, the problem is that it takes it too far, and the "Massively Multiplayer" part kicks in. While I'd love to coop a romp through a dungeon with a buddy or two, I'm not as thrilled romping through the dungeon with 20 or 30 other random people.

There are several major problems with "opening the floodgates" like that, as the throng steamrolls over anything in its path, including the bosses, making the challenge evaporate. In a couple dungeons I had to go back, poking around and waiting for the "end boss" that actually got you the achievement for doing it, who had been wiped out so quickly by the sprinting "front runners" that I never even saw him the first time through. That's not exactly "immersive" play.

Never cared for the public dungeons, for those very reasons. Really, just want to be able to play with one other.

Perhaps most dungeons could include a grouping cap (think SWTOR does that).

Eris

I play the game, I have fun. My roommate plays the game, he has fun.

I didn't plan on playing this game but other's convinced me to do so. I have fun, so I continue to play the game. It's as simple as that.

Fuzzylumpkins

kaosodin wrote: »

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

Well by the look of your list, OP, you already made up your mind on the state of the game. My question to you is this: Why are you still spending time and money on something you already wrote off as a failure?

Exactly. Kick rocks and move on. Dont like the game, dont play, dont come here trolling, acting like we care your canceling.

Be a adult......make a decision and act on it..... if you leave, leave....quit acting like the spurned girlfriend and hanging around.

To many people acting like there owed something.

Well they are. No need to be a tw@t.

A person pays premium cash for a premium product and gets subpar. Move on and stop stating your opinion, is actually not a valid or intelligent response. So try this:

Sorry you feel jacked man, I appreciate your opinion. It is not shared by all but in the future avoid the hype around these types of games and wait a month or 2 until after they release to see if you can get better information about what is going on.

A very large portion of the original buyers, me included, basically feel we donated butt loads of cash to a company for an inferior product. So yeah we kicked rocks and moved on.

Best of luck, sorry you have to deal with the post from monkeys and fan boys, Neither are intelligent conversationalist and neither can read before slinging their mud.

Adramelach

Eris wrote: »

I play the game, I have fun. My roommate plays the game, he has fun.

I didn't plan on playing this game but other's convinced me to do so. I have fun, so I continue to play the game. It's as simple as that.

Indeed, and I have fun, too, and I play the game.

That said, however, while I play it as a "good" game, I'd rather play it as a "great" game. I'd play it either way - so that's not really the criteria. And the more it becomes "great" and not simply "good" the more players it might attract that only play "great" games and don't have time for "good" or passable.

It's like restaurants. You can say about many of them "I eat the food, it's good" but that's not really the kind of response a truly great chef or five-star restaurant is trying to achieve.

Is ESO satisfied with being a three-star, shrug "I play the game, I have fun" game, or is it looking to be a five-star "I can hardly stop playing, it's the most immersive, incredible, on-line entertainment experience I've ever had" game?

frwinters_ESO

Zabalah wrote: »

Stay away from the forums... they are poison.

Usually only the very unhappy, attention seeker, me me me, types post on the forums and its usually negative. I would say that is the majority and its in every game. I wonder what Wildstars forums look like with thr rumors of there really bad headstart.

anyone off topic, take the game for what its worth on your own merit or find a good fansite forum as they tend to have better content.

I only check these forums because im bored to death at work. 30 bucks an hour to post nonsense!

Kililin

Imo someone in charge has no clue how to design a 2014 mmo.
This game is really good at its core, but there are lots of problems due to wrong decisions i can not in any way understand.

Communication is also very bad, randomly changing mechanics without any explanation whatsoever, to the how and why, without exact numbers and a mostly disabled api dreate the image of the designers throwing out smoke bombs left and right to cover their workings.

OTOH i sometimes think that we paint the picture too black, after all if things where as bleak as we make them out they surely would do more damage control via developer ask us anything (without 100% dodge critical questions), weekly updates with detailled explanation, weekly outlooks on what is being worked on, what is already working as designed, where does ZOS/design team see the biggest painpoints.
You know the things you do, to let the last loyal customers know that you care.

Instead they behave like they are on cruise mode to success, doing maintenance three times a week, with only minor explanations why they are doing it.
Issuing incomplete pachtnotes, posting the same auto respond texts in forums (be sure to report ingame... for bugs that have been reported a week ago and this info is in said thread) and generally are in total denial about the state of the game.

ipkonfigcub18_ESO

Eris wrote: »

I play the game, I have fun. My roommate plays the game, he has fun.

I didn't plan on playing this game but other's convinced me to do so. I have fun, so I continue to play the game. It's as simple as that.

I would say you have low standards, but that would be putting it lightly.

kieso

I'm really considering going back to GW2..

GreySix

kieso wrote: »

I'm really considering going back to GW2..

I'm getting SWTOR forum flashbacks with that statement.

Bromburak

kieso wrote: »

I'm really considering going back to GW2..

Great:

kaosodin wrote:

Exactly. Kick rocks and move on. Dont like the game, dont play, dont come here trolling, acting like we care your canceling.

Be a adult......make a decision and act on it..... if you leave, leave....quit acting like the spurned girlfriend and hanging around.

steveb16_ESO46

Elder_Thorn wrote: »

Not able to group with friends that need help with quests due to the phasing system

I totally agree! That's just annoying, but afaik they are working on a solution.

Like so many things they have either been 'working on a solution' for this or claiming to have fixed it since Early Access.

Saerydoth

If you go by the forums, the game has completely died at least 5 times now. Reading some of the posts, there should actually be a *negative* number of players.

And yet...when I go in game, there are always lots of people on, even at weird hours (where even my old overcrowded WOW server was dead). Always plenty of people everywhere I go.

It looks like the complainers are on the forums, while the people that enjoy the game are...playing the game instead of ranting on the forums about it. The only reason I'm on the forums during the day is because I'm at work and can't play.

ipkonfigcub18_ESO

Updated OP, please read and be more civil towards each other. I didn't make this thread to cause people to show their evil side. I was simply grazing my concerns.

sparks60188b14_ESO

Any new MMO release particularly the pay to play model will have to deal with lots of competition. WoW didn't have to compete against quality Free 2 play models like League of Legends, Guild Wars, etc. back in the day.

That said, even WoW in it's first year did not automatically have millions upon millions of subs as they were at half a million subs give or take as it took years to build their sub base as evidenced here... http://www.statista.com/statistics/276601/number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-by-quarter/

It's still early yet as it's only months into release but ESO is going to have to add quality content fairly regularly for players to stick around and new players wanting to join through word of mouth.