Dark Talons: More overpowered than ever before

Evergreen · May 2014

Something really needs to be done how overpowered Dark Talons is in PvP after the damage buff in the last patch. Since Dragon Knights cry the loudest about any nerfing at least make the skill Immovable counter all CC including Dark Talons.

Here is what PvP against Dragon Knights has looked like for me post patch.

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harleysub17_ESO · May 2014

Two lowest damage in your recap. I'd say that BT needs a serious buff!

YuccaPalm · May 2014

WOW 380 dmg for a spell which costs about the same magicka and becomes useless when u dodge roll and Unstable flame 55 dps damn!.

rawne1980b16_ESO · May 2014

That Dragon Knight thinks it's a Nightblade.

Nerf Nightblades.

jy82988ub17_ESO · May 2014

Resilience will fix it

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2014

So youre not bothered by the other two abilities that hit you for twice as much as Talons.....Interesting.

Evergreen · May 2014

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

That Dragon Knight thinks it's a Nightblade.

Nerf Nightblades.

Except we don't have an AoE CC which damages and cannot be countered by the CC immunity skill Immovable.

I propose a completely fair solution that includes no nerfs. Simply fix the CC immunity skill Immovable so that it counters Talons. How is that unreasonable?

NordJitsu · May 2014

No.

The big problem with Talons was the lack of counter play.

Adding an immunity during dodge roll and a decreased radius has perfectly fixed the problem.

As the OP of the 50 page thread that raised the issue, I now consider it well balanced.

Also, @ZOS_NickKonkle‌ , I'd like to point this out as an example of how balance should be done, so bravo. Not huge changes. Not changes to the very nature of the skill. Just incremental changes and changes to the supporting mechanics, rather than the skill itself (eg. dodge roll immunity.)

Evergreen · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

No.

The big problem with Talons was the lack of counter play.

Adding an immunity during dodge roll and a decreased radius has perfectly fixed the problem.

As the OP of the 50 page thread that raised the issue, I now consider it well balanced.

Also, @ZOS_NickKonkle‌ , I'd like to point this out as an example of how balance should be done, so bravo. Not huge changes. Not changes to the very nature of the skill. Just incremental changes and changes to the supporting mechanics, rather than the skill itself (eg. dodge roll immunity.)

Should Talons be excluded from the CC immunity you get from Immovable?

NordJitsu · May 2014

@Evergreen‌

Its not just Talons, its all immobilizes and roots.

Those are considered "soft CC" since they don't prevent you from attacking, just walking. "Hard CC" like stuns, knock down, knock backs, disorients, can all be CC broken and given immunity from Talons.

So ya, I think its fine. Same as with Encase, Bombard, Incapacitating Strikes, Stampede, ect.

Evergreen · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Evergreen‌

Its not just Talons, its all immobilizes and roots.

Those are considered "soft CC" since they don't prevent you from attacking, just walking. "Hard CC" like stuns, knock down, knock backs, disorients, can all be CC broken and given immunity from Talons.

So ya, I think its fine. Same as with Encase, Bombard, Incapacitating Strikes, Stampede, ect.

Maybe I should stop blowing my stamina on Immovable then since Talons will always make you unable to move and save it all for dodge rolls.

rawne1980b16_ESO · May 2014

Evergreen wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

That Dragon Knight thinks it's a Nightblade.

Nerf Nightblades.

Except we don't have an AoE CC which damages and cannot be countered by the CC immunity skill Immovable.

I propose a completely fair solution that includes no nerfs. Simply fix the CC immunity skill Immovable so that it counters Talons. How is that unreasonable?

It was a joke.

I play Nightblade.

I was mocking the fact we get nerfed before our passives get fixed. So may as well nerf us some more.

For funs.

Mykah · May 2014

They need to make Talons blockable.

JosephChip · May 2014

They reduced their radius. How does that make them more op than ever exactly? And your image... they dealt little damage to you. I thought this thread was sarcastic. Really some people will always complain about anything they can think of.

taylorwilenskiub17_ESO · May 2014

As a DK who faces DKs often I can tell you that Talons is not OP at all anymore.

1. It has a reduced radius.
2. It does a total of like 400-500 damage (if you stay in it the entire time).
3. It costs a lot to use.
4. Roll dodge negates it's effect and grants immunity to future talons for 2 seconds.

I suggest rolling out of it, using ranged attacks, and playing a little smarter. Talons is nothing special anymore.

Evergreen · May 2014

taylorwilenskiub17_ESO wrote: »

I suggest rolling out of it

Immovable is my main CC defense. Its really horrible to waste the huge stamina cost on Immovable to find out it has no effect on Talons making it so you cannot move.

Like you said the only solution is save stamina for dodge rolls or switch to ranged specs. I'm thinking about just giving up trying to make melee spec work on a Nightblade and do bloodmage/healer builds. I know we do pretty well as healers.

vicNBitis · May 2014

I'd suggest just making a DK. Having leveled two NBs I know it's not what an NB wants to hear. And I know that most people who have leveled an NB think "I'm not doing this again!" but it's not this. Really, it's not. Leveling a DK is nothing like leveling an NB. You get Talons at level 6-8 and you faceroll from then on. There are farming spots where you can literally get multiple levels an hour. No, that wasn't a typo. Multiple levels an hour. And they require no glitching, exploits, abuse of any kind. Only the OPness that is DK. You might as well do it now before Zenimax comes to their senses and nerfs DK into dust.

wolfe26ub17_ESO · May 2014

now I see where all the rediculous nerfing comes from. They just nerfed Talons this patch reducing it's area effect.

Dark Talons:
This ability can now damage monsters with snare immunity.
Fixed an issue where allies were not able to activate the synergy from Dark Talons.
Reduced the overall radius.

where is the damage buff?

all I see is.... ' I lost and the skill that I grabbed from the list should be nerfed'

Evergreen · May 2014

wolfe26ub17_ESO wrote: »

all I see is.... ' I lost and the skill that I grabbed from the list should be nerfed'

I'm not saying nerf Talons just fix Immovable so that it counters Talons effect of making it so you are unable to move. Otherwise the massive stamina cost for Immovable is a waste.

ElSlayer · May 2014

The only fix that Immovable needs is to make it usable only while wearing 5 pieces of heavy armor.
After that you'll die in Talons like the rest with your Light Armor.
You'll be like "Uh, okay, I don't have CC immunity skills so it is normal that I die in roots" and 100% happy with the game.

Evergreen · May 2014

ElSlayer wrote: »

The only fix that Immovable needs is to make it usable only while wearing 5 pieces of heavy armor.

I don't see a problem with your idea and would give that much more reason to fix Immovable so that it countered Talons effect of making it so you cannot move.

ElSlayer · May 2014

Evergreen wrote: »

ElSlayer wrote: »

The only fix that Immovable needs is to make it usable only while wearing 5 pieces of heavy armor.

I don't see a problem with your idea and would give that much more reason to fix Immovable so that it countered Talons effect of making it so you cannot move.

Actually "immovable" and "can not move" does not contradict each other.

I find it OK that Immovable doesn't give 100% immune to ALL CC (because i don't use it

)
Otherwise it will be MUST HAVE button that in the end will be used by almost everyone.

Immovable counters something. Something counters Immovable. Seems fair enough to me.

hk11 · May 2014

Why not remove dragonknights from the game?
That seems to be the general objective of a lot of people.

wpitterlb14a_ESO · May 2014

I'm still trying to figure out if the OP is trolling or not...

demonlkojipub19_ESO · May 2014

Looks more like you got owned by vampire skills....

LordEcks · May 2014

ElSlayer wrote: »

Actually "immovable" and "can not move" does not contradict each other.

I find it OK that Immovable doesn't give 100% immune to ALL CC (because i don't use it )
Otherwise it will be MUST HAVE button that in the end will be used by almost everyone.

Immovable counters something. Something counters Immovable. Seems fair enough to me.

This.

Skjlvald · May 2014

Vamp drain/stun is what won the fight, sir.

ForTheRealm · May 2014

Skjlvald wrote: »

Vamp drain/stun is what won the fight, sir.

I am pretty sure you are right: DK casted Talons, and then Vamp drain which stun the player and kept him inactive, and then Swarm and Unstable Flame to DPS.

It is much easier to fight against DK right now, cause they need to get very close to you to actually root you with the talons. If the player keeps distance, DK will burn Magicka very fast.

Evergreen · May 2014

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

It is much easier to fight against DK right now, cause they need to get very close to you to actually root you with the talons. If the player keeps distance, DK will burn Magicka very fast.

After wasting a huge chunk of stamina cost casting Immovable then being immobilized anyway by Talons doesn't seem fair to be working as intended. With Immovable not countering Talons effect of making it so I cannot move keeping my distance is what I'm going to have resort to in PvP.

Chrysolis · May 2014

Evergreen wrote: »

After wasting a huge chunk of stamina cost casting Immovable then being immobilized anyway by Talons doesn't seem fair to be working as intended. With Immovable not countering Talons effect of making it so I cannot move keeping my distance is what I'm going to have resort to in PvP.

Immovable was never intended to stop movement impairing effects (think about it, it's from the heavy armor tree). It blocks knock backs and disables.

And it's called immovable. Sounds like you were already immovable.

Evergreen · May 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

Immovable was never intended to stop movement impairing effects

In the skill description for Immovable it is described as granting immunity to disabling effects, hence you become immovable at the price of a massive stamina cost. How should this not counter the disabling effect of Talons?