Trial Content Letdown

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO

I love ESO dearly. For me it’s still the best MMO on the market. However it lacked some serious raiding content and true end game. I was holding out hope that Trials would fix this issue and ESO would become a brand name for the MMO genre. Simply because the game got so many thing right. This being said, Trials fell completely short for my friends and myself. We killed both Trials last night within 35-40 minutes roughly. I didn't feel a challenge with this content at all. It felt rushed and frankly underwhelming.

After running the content 3 more times in the same night and clearing it….it became painfully obvious this is not the style of “raids” I was looking for. For me this was the one feature they needed to get right, and completely fell short. My biggest issue is the simply fact that ZoS made content designed to be speed ran. If you are able to speed run bosses, what is the fun? Whats the point? These bosses are not hard at all. It’s simply 2 maybe 3 mechanics and done. The bosses themselves are tuned to be speed ran, which speak volumes to me. Needless to say, if Trials are the “raids” for ESO…..I have lost a lot of hope for the game in the long run. They are fun at first, then just become a huge boring grind feast. As seems to be the trend.

I am more than a bit disappointed. I wanted and expected a lot more. I wanted some really badass bosses to come up against, and it take a long while (5-15 minutes) to kill each one. No timers and no soul pools….(which are just annoying and in no way hard)

I am just so stunned, how ZoS got it so so so wrong. The old raiding system wasn't broke, why try to fix it?

Lucifer108

In all honesty what did u expect? To have the ability to introduce interesting mechanics , all facets of gameplay (tank healer and dps ) should be flexible and combat should be responsive.
Instead combat is far from responsive in this game compared to games like wildstar.And with tanking having a single taunt an all heals being AOE heals , the ability to introduce interesting mechanics evaporates. People predicted this months ago along with a lot of other issues and a lot of us were either flamed or told to shut up by others .
Last but not least, none of the content in this game has the "carrot on a stick", none of the rewards are worth the effort and even trials drops are BOE.

Lox

Although I agree a bit with some of your thoughts, I also disagree in some areas.

Duration of a 'raid' or 'fight' does not make it good or challenging. Unfortunately the bar has been set with previous games, these seem to define the need for a #raid' to take hours and hours to complete, if it doesn't its just rubbish!

Having said that, I am not necessarily supporting the current system totally, however there is a place for raids that can be completed in a shorter timeframe. Make the fights interesting and non-linear to create a challenge, it doesn't need to take 20-30 minutes to kill something to make it challenging, infact fights that long are plain boring IMO.

tawok

This is a game ending thread, if this is true.

The_Drexill

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

I love ESO dearly. For me it’s still the best MMO on the market. However it lacked some serious raiding content and true end game. I was holding out hope that Trials would fix this issue and ESO would become a brand name for the MMO genre. Simply because the game got so many thing right. This being said, Trials fell completely short for my friends and myself. We killed both Trials last night within 35-40 minutes roughly. I didn’t feel a challenge with this content at all. It felt rushed and frankly underwhelming.

After running the content 3 more times in the same night and clearing it….it became painfully obvious this is not the style of “raids” I was looking for. For me this was the one feature they needed to get right, and completely fell short. My biggest issue is the simply fact that ZoS made content designed to be speed ran. If you are able to speed run bosses, what is the fun? Whats the point? These bosses are not hard at all. It’s simply 2 maybe 3 mechanics and done. The bosses themselves are tuned to be speed ran, which speak volumes to me. Needless to say, if Trials are the “raids” for ESO…..I have lost a lot of hope for the game in the long run. They are fun at first, then just become a huge boring grind feast. As seems to be the trend.

I am more than a bit disappointed. I wanted and expected a lot more. I wanted some really badass bosses to come up against, and it take a long while (20-30 minutes) to kill each one. No timers and no soul pools….(which are just annoying and in no way hard)

I am just so stunned, how ZoS got it so so so wrong. The old raiding system wasn’t broke, why try to fix it?

I mostly agree with you. I think the end there... 20-30 minute boss kills is insane, I don't agree there.

I think the perfect boss kill time is around 6-7 minutes, but I think the fights should be mechanically engaging. Every boss doesn't need super crazy mechanics, but they do need mechanics. I too thought Craglorn would offer some real raid content... but obviously that's not what they were going for... these were just 12 player veteran dungeons with a clock... like WoW's Challenge modes.

I do hope that the next content they add will include a real raid... give us an 8 boss super raid. Give it 4 wings and make them last 45-1hr each for the casuals.

Lucifer108

Lox wrote: »

Although I agree a bit with some of your thoughts, I also disagree in some areas.

Duration of a 'raid' or 'fight' does not make it good or challenging. Unfortunately the bar has been set with previous games, these seem to define the need for a #raid' to take hours and hours to complete, if it doesn't its just rubbish!

Having said that, I am not necessarily supporting the current system totally, however there is a place for raids that can be completed in a shorter timeframe. Make the fights interesting and non-linear to create a challenge, it doesn't need to take 20-30 minutes to kill something to make it challenging, infact fights that long are plain boring IMO.

You are absolutely right regarding duration of content. But like u said , the mechanics have to be interesting , and not only are they not interesting , but the fact that there is absolutely no reason to re-do them unless u want better times, considering most loot is BOE (bind of equip and can be sold) and there is no loot that absolutely stands out , makes the content rather pointless after the first 3-4 runs.

Like i said the my previous post, there is absolutely no possiblity of introducing interesting mechancis with the way current tanking and healing works other than the "stack up during AOE damage phases".

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO

I don't know why I said 20-30 minutes per boss. I am ***. I meant 5-15 minutes. Got mixed up with Trial run times. My bad fellows. I fixed the main post.

Nooblet

Its been pretty clear to me that this game was focused around Cyrodiil. Similar to DAoC, it has some PvE content, but that is not the focus. The focus is the War in Cyrodiil with some PvE mixed in. Atleast that is what my impression from the game was before I even bought it.

Which isnt necessarily a bad thing, as games that try to do everything, and please everyone typically fail. Just hope some changes are made to keep the war alive in cyrodiil.

While I enjoy raids... I also hate them and the fact that I'm required to have a raid schedule in order to participate. I do not like having to set a schedule with upwards of 20+ players multiple hours and days a week in order to do the endgame content(I just don't have that kind of time anymore, to where I have to choose between raiding and making the wife mad, or not raiding, and making the guild mad). While they may lose some players that are die hard raiders, I feel it's a respectable choice to go a different route.

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO

Nooblet wrote: »

Its been pretty clear to me that this game was focused around Cyrodiil. Similar to DAoC, it has some PvE content, but that is not the focus. The focus is the War in Cyrodiil with some PvE mixed in. Atleast that is what my impression from the game was before I even bought it.

Which isnt necessarily a bad thing, as games that try to do everything, and please everyone typically fail. Just hope some changes are made to keep the war alive in cyrodiil.

This post is not about the endless mindless zerg Cyrodiil. It's about Trials. Please stay on topic.

Nooblet

It is on topic, sorry you thought the trials were something they are not.

Lucifer108

Nooblet wrote: »

Its been pretty clear to me that this game was focused around Cyrodiil. Similar to DAoC, it has some PvE content, but that is not the focus. The focus is the War in Cyrodiil with some PvE mixed in. Atleast that is what my impression from the game was before I even bought it.

Which isnt necessarily a bad thing, as games that try to do everything, and please everyone typically fail. Just hope some changes are made to keep the war alive in cyrodiil.

While I enjoy raids... I also hate them and the fact that I'm required to have a raid schedule in order to participate. I do not like having to set a schedule with upwards of 20+ players in order to do the endgame content(I just don't have that kind of time anymore, to where I have to choose between raiding and making the wife mad, or not raiding, and making the guild mad). While they may lose some players that are die hard raiders, I feel it's a respectable choice to go a different route.

Its simple for me. I am VR 11 now, and for 2 weeks i was at VR 10 i barely logged in because there is absolutely no solo content for me to do in this game when my friends are offline. Minor things like dailies or whetever to keep me occupied solo. I personally hate dailies but at least it gave me something to do . Now that 1.1.2 has released, i though trials would give me the the incentive to log in 3 nights a week to do something fun and challenging.
It was fun the first time, because it was new. But after 3 runs it became a chore (not to mention it is not challenging)since there is no incentive to do them other than get better times. So atm, i have no incentive to log in at all other than to feed my 3rd horse. And thats why i feel as though it is time for me to move on . I am a PVE player more than a PVP player and as stated in by the OP , i am massively disappointed with trials .

Nooblet

Lucifer108 wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

Its been pretty clear to me that this game was focused around Cyrodiil. Similar to DAoC, it has some PvE content, but that is not the focus. The focus is the War in Cyrodiil with some PvE mixed in. Atleast that is what my impression from the game was before I even bought it.

Which isnt necessarily a bad thing, as games that try to do everything, and please everyone typically fail. Just hope some changes are made to keep the war alive in cyrodiil.

While I enjoy raids... I also hate them and the fact that I'm required to have a raid schedule in order to participate. I do not like having to set a schedule with upwards of 20+ players in order to do the endgame content(I just don't have that kind of time anymore, to where I have to choose between raiding and making the wife mad, or not raiding, and making the guild mad). While they may lose some players that are die hard raiders, I feel it's a respectable choice to go a different route.

Its simple for me. I am VR 11 now, and for 2 weeks i was at VR 10 i barely logged in because there is absolutely no solo content for me to do in this game when my friends are offline. Minor things like dailies or whetever to keep me occupied solo. I personally hate dailies but at least it gave me something to do . Now that 1.1.2 has released, i though trials would give me the the incentive to log in 3 nights a week to do something fun and challenging.
It was fun the first time, because it was new. But after 3 runs it became a chore (not to mention it is not challenging)since there is no incentive to do them other than get better times. So atm, i have no incentive to log in at all other than to feed my 3rd horse. And thats why i feel as though it is time for me to move on . I am a PVE player more than a PVP player and as stated in by the OP , i am massively disappointed but trials .

I understand the frustration. I played Rift 100% for the raids for a long time. The feeling of completing a tough raid with 19 others that you have been working on for weeks or longer is pretty much unmatched.

I do feel like adding some replayable solo content would be a plus. Not something with great gear, but can provide a way to obtain gold easier. At the moment it seems like the way to make gold is get enchanting to the highest level sell enchants for very high prices to players who are trying to optimize their characters.

As someone with rather limited time and a schedule that changes from work site to work site, I was looking for a game that I could log in for a few hours whenever and have some fun. So I figured it would have to probably be a PvP focused game. For that reason I am satisfied with the game.

Dimar

The biggest problem with MMO's today are you end Gamers, ESO included. Your all about the end game. You blast through content to get there and are always, always, disappointed. It's this or that, it's short, it's long, or it's does this, or doesn't do that. Biggest of all is you want the whole game to be as quick and painless for you as possible so you can get there. Well guess what? I doesn't matter if the end game were perfect, you blew through the content to get there and then you did the end game a few times, now your bored. More often, you Monday morning quarterback it and say, " I would be so much better if...). Well it won't and it never will be. In the mean time, dev's make changes to keep you interested in the "End Game" and in the process ruin the rest of the game.
Look at Wow, The whole process if getting to the end game used to be challenging and fun, yeah some work involved, but it meant something when you finally got there. Now it's just going through the motions, no challenge, not even much commitment in time, and then your doing "End Game! Whoopie!! Well, Grats! Looks like you have ESO doing the same thing. Forget those of us that love the story and the content, let's make this an, "End Game" game. Just log in play a few hours and then go beat the same boss or bosses, over and over and over.
You people forget the most important part of the end game, it's the END. Look it up in Webster's, it means it's over, nothing else to do after! THE END!
The end is not the game, it's getting there, that's the game. That's what MMO's are all about getting there.

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO

Dimar MMO's don't end.....you are the worse troll ever. Please go else where. I didn't rush content either. I just got to v10 almost 2 months into the game. I never rushed content, even saved content for max level. I have tons to do. That's not the issue. It's that Trials suck. End of story.

What really ruins games, are casuals such as yourself. Always needing hand outs and crying about others doing content before you.

Take your trolling away.

Lucifer108

@Dimar I mean really? i spent a little over a month getting to VR 10 in a legitimate way without no exploits whatsoever. Yes i skipped almost every single mob that i didnt need to kill post VR5 since i was a nightblade and it made my progress significantly quicker to VR 10.I collected every lorebook and did every quest except 3/4 of the final zone which i was saving for 1.1.2 to help with experience in case finding a group for craglorn was hard. This thread isnt about only lack of endgame but the fact that endgame for PVE is terrible and replay value is lacking , The quality of content and rewards are poor.

Unless you are a pvper , you are not going to feel any different whenever you hit VR 10+ except for the fact that u spent more money on subscription fees for the same content than I did.
Usually in other games i take my time with leveling, but in this game i felt i did the right thing to get ahead of the pack due to all the silly nerfs (motifs/ class abilities) that have come into play, not to mention i found that i encountered fewer quest bugs by rushing ahead compared to friends who are still leveling and have had progression halting bugs.

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO

Lucifer108 wrote: »

@Dimar I mean really? i spent a little over a month getting to VR 10 in a legitimate way without no exploits whatsoever. Yes i skipped almost every single mob that i didnt need to kill post VR5 since i was a nightblade and it made my progress significantly quicker to VR 10.I collected every lorebook and did every quest except 3/4 of the final zone which i was saving for 1.1.2 to help with experience in case finding a group for craglorn was hard. This thread isnt about only lack of endgame but the fact that endgame for PVE is terrible and replay value is lacking , both from the quality of content and rewards.

Unless you are a pvper , you are not going to feel any different whenever you hit VR 10+ except for the fact that u spent more money on subscription fees for the same content than I did.
Usually in other games i take my time with leveling, but in this game i felt i did the right thing to get ahead of the pack due to all the silly nerfs (motifs/ class abilities) that have come into play, not to mention i found that i encountered fewer quest bugs by rushing ahead compared to friends who are still leveling and have had progression halting bugs.

Amen

Innocente

WildStar. 20man and 40man hardcore progression raiding. Designed NOT for everyone to experience; designed to be only for the lovers of hard raid trash, hard mini-bosses, and flat out challenging main Bosses. They have what you want, if you can get past the lighthearted world implementation.

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO

Innocente wrote: »

WildStar. 20man and 40man hardcore progression raiding. Designed NOT for everyone to experience; designed to be only for the lovers of hard raid trash, hard mini-bosses, and flat out challenging main Bosses. They have what you want, if you can get past the lighthearted world implementation.

I plan on trying Wildstar.

Lucifer108

Innocente wrote: »

WildStar. 20man and 40man hardcore progression raiding. Designed NOT for everyone to experience; designed to be only for the lovers of hard raid trash, hard mini-bosses, and flat out challenging main Bosses. They have what you want, if you can get past the lighthearted world implementation.

Thats exactly where i am heading now to be honest. From what i heard at least the devs at carbine are honest.

Nooblet

Innocente wrote: »

WildStar. 20man and 40man hardcore progression raiding. Designed NOT for everyone to experience; designed to be only for the lovers of hard raid trash, hard mini-bosses, and flat out challenging main Bosses. They have what you want, if you can get past the lighthearted world implementation.

I DLed the open beta and played for 20 seconds and decided I couldn't play a WoW clone that seemed even more kiddie than wow. The combat seemed kinda similar to ESO but did not like the feel of it as much. The PvP looked horrible in the videos I watched.

But the videos of the Devs reminded me alot of the Rift Devs and their mindset. Which was a big plus, because the Rift devs were awesome.

I just don't feel I can get past the kid oriented look to the game.

Gilandred

Innocente wrote: »

WildStar. 20man and 40man hardcore progression raiding. Designed NOT for everyone to experience; designed to be only for the lovers of hard raid trash, hard mini-bosses, and flat out challenging main Bosses. They have what you want, if you can get past the lighthearted world implementation.

And this is a good thing. You don't have to build games to be all things to all people.

Nooblet

Gilandred wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

WildStar. 20man and 40man hardcore progression raiding. Designed NOT for everyone to experience; designed to be only for the lovers of hard raid trash, hard mini-bosses, and flat out challenging main Bosses. They have what you want, if you can get past the lighthearted world implementation.

And this is a good thing. You don't have to build games to be all things to all people.

However providing the most content for 1-5% of the population is not good for business. Which I believe is exactly why Rift was forced to go F2P.

Lucifer108

Nooblet wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

WildStar. 20man and 40man hardcore progression raiding. Designed NOT for everyone to experience; designed to be only for the lovers of hard raid trash, hard mini-bosses, and flat out challenging main Bosses. They have what you want, if you can get past the lighthearted world implementation.

I DLed the open beta and played for 20 seconds and decided I couldn't play a WoW clone that seemed even more kiddie than wow. The combat seemed kinda similar to ESO but did not like the feel of it as much. The PvP looked horrible in the videos I watched.

But the videos of the Devs reminded me alot of the Rift Devs and their mindset. Which was a big plus, because the Rift devs were awesome.

I just don't feel I can get past the kid oriented look to the game.

Honestly think everyone will get past the looks after the certain point . I can honestly say wildstar has more content, a better crafting system, a better combat system, more variety of content, more customization options , more modes of pvp, more modes of pve, responsive controls. I personally dont care about graphics in any game as long as the gameplay and content keeps me engaged.

But most importantly, i feel i should give wildstar a chance especially since everyone is raving about how honest and open their Devs are about their product. Too bad the same thing cant be said for Zenimax. Might give archage a shot as well , certain sandbox elements looks nice in that game

Innocente

WildStar is about as far from being a WoW clone as you can get and still be a traditional MMO. The Raiding end-game content is really just for the raiding crowd; there is other end-game content for PvP folks and for casual PvE folks. There is content targeted for all levels of players, and not all of it is for everyone.

Nooblet

Innocente wrote: »

WildStar is about as far from being a WoW clone as you can get and still be a traditional MMO. The Raiding end-game content is really just for the raiding crowd; there is other end-game content for PvP folks and for casual PvE folks. There is content targeted for all levels of players, and not all of it is for everyone.

Its a WoW clone in that it's a Kiddie look to it, and is trying to be a jack of all trades catering to every style of player.

Not quite sure how this turned into a Wildstar thread though

Innocente

Nooblet, First you say that WildStar is targeted to only 1% to 5% of the players, then you say it is catering to 'every style' of player. Make up your mind.

WildStar has a graphic style that is nothing like WoW. Having played WoW for 10 years, and WildStar for some months now, they are NOT the same.

Nor is WildStar a WoW clone. It is simply not. If anything, the combat style in WildStar is closer to ESO!

And, the original intent was to point the OP to a game that might have what he/she is looking for. A really hard raiding end-game. Designed for hardcore progression raiders and not for all the player base.

We can stop talking about it now, if you like.

Nooblet

Innocente wrote: »

Nooblet, First you say that WildStar is targeted to only 1% to 5% of the players, then you say it is catering to 'every style' of player. Make up your mind.

WildStar has a graphic style that is nothing like WoW. Having played WoW for 10 years, and WildStar for some months now, they are NOT the same.

Nor is WildStar a WoW clone. It is simply not. If anything, the combat style in WildStar is closer to ESO!

And, the original intent was to point the OP to a game that might have what he/she is looking for. A really hard raiding end-game. Designed for hardcore progression raiders and not for all the player base.

We can stop talking about it now, if you like.

While it may cater to "every style of player" now.. it will not be able to sustain that.
Lets not be naive, Raid content takes alot more time/effort to create. Once the 1-5% of the playerbase completes these raids, they will be crying for more. The Devs seem almost exactly like the Rift devs did. And they will start to gear the game towards raiding, and raiding will provide the best rewards. Even though Rift pumped out content WAY faster than any other MMO I played, and had as flawless of a MMO release as I've ever seen, they still went downhill and eventually F2P when their focus became Raid content(which was by far their most fun content).


That is my impression of it. While it may not suffer the same fate as Rift, I feel they both started off on similar paths. Maybe wildstar will take a different direction, who knows.

Nazon_Katts

But this very design of Trials lends itself so wonderfully to cash shop items. Buy more souls, potions of time warp, field repair kits, etc...

Strange, you don't like it.

Innocente

A good place to end this part of the discussion. Thanks for your thoughtful considerations (not kidding here). Let's hope ESO gets some dedicated love in lots of areas. Good Hunting!

Eris

Actually, Trials and Raids are two different things.

Trials are a series of objectives that need to be completed under a certain time.

Raids are large multi-part quests that usually do not include a time limit.

Trials and raids generally exist side by side (at least in games that use Trials)... so I'd expect some sort of raid to be coming.

Hope this helps.

Anastasia

Lucifer108 wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

Its been Now that 1.1.2 has released, i though trials would give me the the incentive to log in 3 nights a week to do something fun and challenging...
...It was fun the first time, because it was new. But after 3 runs it became a chore (not to mention it is not challenging)since ...
>>>>there is no incentive to do them other than get better times.
...So atm... i

---

Pretty sure there are completely SEPARATE, cool LOOT for those who go above and beyond in the trials.