Heavy armor completly useless in PvP.

Domander

I'd like them to add a passive that reduces aoe damage with heavy armor. It fits well, and would make it more useful for pvp.

sirston

I used to wear full 7/7 heavy being stubborn as I am, but I switched to 7/7 light and have so much more stamina and magicka then before truthfully I miss wearing heavy armor, but its just not worth it wearing heavy
so I say yes for a buff.

That's how heavy armor feels in PVP atm

Soris

Oh look, this is one of the trailers published while game was still in development stage. So it seems shitness of heavy armor was already planned since the beginning. Got you illuminati!

Cody

sirston wrote: »

I used to wear full 7/7 heavy being stubborn as I am, but I switched to 7/7 light and have so much more stamina and magicka then before truthfully I miss wearing heavy armor, but its just not worth it wearing heavy
so I say yes for a buff.

That's how heavy armor feels in PVP atm

so this was planned by ZOS since the beginning..... now it makes sense.....

Francescolg

If heavy armor gets sth. like (inc dmg general) 10%-20% mitigation bonus, everybody will play Heavy Armor. Already, dudes found out that -% dmg suits a DK better than +5% fire dmg in pvp

Anazasi

There is no doubt that heavy armor needs some work. Damage mitigation should be much higher with more heavy armor equipped. Perhaps ZOS should work on balancing armor before they try anything else for once.

Samadhi

Hoping when the Champion System hits PTS soon it comes bearing good news for armour stat and Heavy Armour's value.

Agrippa_Invisus

Samadhi wrote: »

Hoping when the Champion System hits PTS soon it comes bearing good news for armour stat and Heavy Armour's value.

There was a thread posted that reported had some inside info. Basically stating that with soft caps being pulled, only HA would be able to get anywhere near the hard cap of the Armor stat while MA would lag behind and both would leave LA in the dust.

Dreyloch

I haven't read the full thread here, so I'll admit that right away. But I play a DK, and nothing I've tried in heavy armor works good in PvP. When I started this game I wanted to be a duel wielding heavy armor beast. It's simply not possible. The resources and passives just won't make it work. I also didn't want to play a rogue/NB. I played that in my last game. I liked the thought of being tanky with spells... an offensive, duel wielding, spell casting,tank.

The only thing someone can hope for (provided your still wanting to PvP by the time it comes out..)Is the champion system. Maybe something in there will help this disparity. I agree with the OP and I wear a 5L/2M. currently.

EnOeZ

Heavy is still completely useless in PVP in the 1.6.x PTS.

It is even worse (apart from raw mitigation) in terms of DPS (Constitution nerf) and Resource Regen (Juggernaut nerf). Raw passive mitigation is still far inferior to active mitigation and resource management where the other two armors shine and heavy is (still) a nightmare.

More here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148711/1-6-pts-heavy-armor-feedback/p1

RedTalon

Well not has bad has some other raised threads, but still looking forward to see how it works on live.

Kypho

Calling the broken heavy armor.crap, is silly. Unlimited.resource.....its broken, OP

Turelus

As someone who has played with Heavy Armour in PVP/PVE for most of the games time being out I have to say it's been an up and down experience.

Most all the feedback I read here is correct, compaired to a light armour user who can spam shielding effects I do not tank any where as close to them, my resources burn out fast and the only reason that often isn't the end of me is the fact I am a Nightblade and can use Tri-Pots/Siphoning Attacks to get some resources back.

Playing along side light armour Nightblade's I can notice my stronger amour and SR, but it's normally only a matter of seconds in different between us dying.

Heavy Armour has gone through some changes here and there, I am sad to see that in 1.6 the bonus to break free was taken from the passives and moved over to an passive of Immovable Brute when it's slotted (meaning I will only have that heavy armour bonus on one bar, or need to sacrifice a slot on both bars let I be stunned and unable to weapon slot to gain the benefit).

I honestly don't know what can be done to fix heavy armour at this point, maybe 1.6 will give it the difference in armour/SR it needs to be competitive, but those stats will never be meaningful when players can spam damage shields/absorption effects endlessly.

rordogg

As someone who has played heavy armor only characters since launch I can say that I believe heavy armor has gotten exactly what it needed. Pre 1.6 I could be a god in heavy armor in PvE, but PvP was pointless cause I could run into a character wearing all light with practically the same amount of armor as I had plus the DPS and resource of an all light armor build. Now... post 1.6 all I can do is PvP. I run a 7/7 heavy armor DK that is stamina based, my only magic skills are molten armaments, green dragons blood, and spiked armor. The rest are skills from 2h and 1h & shield. And this build has been doing amazing in PvP. light and medium armor are now at the defensive values they should be. Yes they have that extra resource but now they can't get both. They are sacrificing their defense and can't gain it through stacking buffs on their bars like they used too. Heavy armor on the other hand now provides that defensive bonus above light and medium as it should. But it requires a lot more resource management then light or medium. You have to learn that when wearing heavy armor your character is gonna benefit by being a defensive type build. Yes you can make a DPS heavy armor, no it's not gonna DPS as well as someone in medium and light because it's not meant to fill that role. You are gonna use a lot more light and heavy attacks instead of skills(mastering weaving heavy attacks in the proper moments of a fight as a heavy armor character will make you someone to be feared on the battlefield in 1.6). As a heavy armor character the skills on your weapon bar should be more utility and defensive based because you are not a DPS thats able to spam skills left and right. You are supposed to outlast and watch the fight waiting for the right moment to make your strike. Obviously this is all just my personal opinion. but I believe that heavy armor now has it's place in PvE and PvP as of 1.6.

Panda244

Heavy Armor is only useful for the CC break reduction and block reduction... Every other passive is worth jack.

Mojomonkeyman

Heavy armor is very strong in PvP. Constitution is one of the most powerful passives in the game.

Turelus

@rordogg the issues I have seen with PVP is that it doesn't really matter if the light armour has less armour/SR rating because classes using healing/shielding skills have enough resources and power to keep themselves alive far longer than a heavy armour user.

Resources from heavy armour deplete very fast and without any high damage it seems very hard to beat a Sorcerer, DK or Templar wearing light armour and carrying a resto staff in their off hand.

I could also just be very very bad at the game.

rordogg

Turelus wrote: »

@rordogg the issues I have seen with PVP is that it doesn't really matter if the light armour has less armour/SR rating because classes using healing/shielding skills have enough resources and power to keep themselves alive far longer than a heavy armour user.

Resources from heavy armour deplete very fast and without any high damage it seems very hard to beat a Sorcerer, DK or Templar wearing light armour and carrying a resto staff in their off hand.

I could also just be very very bad at the game.

but that's the thing about how 1.6 has rebalanced I'm able to kill completely light armor players with my heavy armor only build I've been playing that I currently can't PvP with in 1.5. Being a heavy armor based melee warrior now has it's appeal and I feel like we are gonna see a lot more variety.

Turelus

Thanks, I will take a look over the changes on PTS again and start theory crafting to what I can do with it. I am a little sad we lost our passive damage bonus and that the CC break costs now require a skill slot (both bars if you want to have it always be there.)

I also don't think it helps too much I am a Nightblade... it's an odd one for HA.

eliisra

rordogg wrote: »

but that's the thing about how 1.6 has rebalanced I'm able to kill completely light armor players with my heavy armor only build I've been playing that I currently can't PvP with in 1.5. Being a heavy armor based melee warrior now has it's appeal and I feel like we are gonna see a lot more variety.

You will be 100% more effective doing that in medium armor. You dont loose much mitigations and gain a chunk of dmg or skill strength from weapon power, crit, dirt-cheap dodge and superior recourse management. Can spam Bone Shield, Vigor, Momentum and so on to keep your health up way longer in medium as mele. So I'm really struggling to see how heavy is "rebalanced". All they did was slaughter light armor and put magicka survivability into shield spam.

I do like the new passive giving more health. But blocking, the strength of heavy, is also less viable in 1.6.

Akinos

Heavy is viable for the moment. I've been wearing heavy in PvP and PvE alot since they first buffed it, but after playing 1.6 and seeing that I can't block for crap anymore.,I'll very likely be making the switch back to light armor, or 5 light, 1 medium and 1 heavy just for the undaunted passives.

RIP Heavy Armor(Whenever the first good buff was to 1.6) You will be missed.

Workerdroid7

majestic862_ESO wrote: »

Heavy is viable for the moment. I've been wearing heavy in PvP and PvE alot since they first buffed it, but after playing 1.6 and seeing that I can't block for crap anymore.,I'll very likely be making the switch back to light armor, or 5 light, 1 medium and 1 heavy just for the undaunted passives.

RIP Heavy Armor(Whenever the first good buff was to 1.6) You will be missed.

I use 5 pieces HA now on 1.5 and it fits my playstlye and skill bars very nicely. I was I was under the impression that 1.6 was supposed to be the introduction of really useful HA, making my build even better. I've not played on the PTS at all, so I have no idea how valid your statement is.... but I find it disturbing

david.haypreub18_ESO

Workerdroid7 wrote: »

I use 5 pieces HA now on 1.5 and it fits my playstlye and skill bars very nicely. I was I was under the impression that 1.6 was supposed to be the introduction of really useful HA, making my build even better. I've not played on the PTS at all, so I have no idea how valid your statement is.... but I find it disturbing

They've been saying they were going to fix heavy for a long time now... but they just don't know how to do it. When they added the passive that restores resources, they seemed to indicate that they understood the problem is not inferior mitigation but rather resource management. But they didn't go far enough (heavy still gives back pitiful returns compared to Light and Medium).

This time around, all they really did was nerf Light. That does help Heavy in relation to Light, but does nothing to help Heavy in relation to medium.

I know which type I'm going to be using in 1.6.

The_Death_Princess

What they really did wrong overall was give all armors mathematically the same values of resistance, cap them, and allow buffs to go to the cap. In other words I could wear light, do something small to buff up to cap and be equal. As said, some corrections were made to solve this.

Ideally the real correction should be full set of light gives you say 1500 x, full set of medium gives you 3000 x and heavy gives you 4500 x. Buffing each then buffs at 1x, 2x and 3x respectively. This is simplified for example purposes, but should be that hard to achieve.

Kuro1n

I'm a bit baffled. I told my friend HA is in 1.5 not really good in PVP, "you wont be a good tank running that ugly *** HA set of yours". Well, seems he got the last laugh, hes a total scrub in PVP but just as he wished, he's not dying until there are at least a few people hammering him for a minute or two. We are calling him "the rock", slow as *** and can't kill *** but at least he ain't going down. Will be interesting to see if it will be viable in 1.6.

EDIT: Today while PVPing we got jumped by some gankers and me and a friend quickly went down, so the only guy standing was the rock, I went afk to get a drink. Came back 3 or 4 minutes later to see them still hammering on him. In the end they just left and he ressed us.

EnOeZ

Heavy still as useless as usual in PVP.

Kuro1n wrote: »

I'm a bit baffled. I told my friend HA is in 1.5 not really good in PVP, "you wont be a good tank running that ugly *** HA set of yours". Well, seems he got the last laugh, hes a total scrub in PVP but just as he wished, he's not dying until there are at least a few people hammering him for a minute or two. We are calling him "the rock", slow as *** and can't kill *** but at least he ain't going down. Will be interesting to see if it will be viable in 1.6.

EDIT: Today while PVPing we got jumped by some gankers and me and a friend quickly went down, so the only guy standing was the rock, I went afk to get a drink. Came back 3 or 4 minutes later to see them still hammering on him. In the end they just left and he ressed us.

Except if you agree to kill no one, like the "rock", then you can play the 24/7 block game where you can bore even your adversaries after having bored yourself ! yeaaaah.

Victory by boredom !! GG Heavy Armor !

DoctorSwampy

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Heavy Armor could really use some tweaking upwards.

I'd love to see it add some more Stamina regeneration and/or Health regen to make it worth it, perhaps increase the Juggernaut damage bonus in some manner (turn it into Armor Pen or just increase the raw percentage). As it is, the only reasons to even have it are raw armor and the 20% block cost reduction at 5 pieces. There is no reason to have a full set (like there is with Light).

^ This.
I run 5 heavy 1 light 1 medium currently, and I do quite well. Granted I don't do NEAR as much damage as I could be doing, but heavy armor works well with what I'm built for. But heavy needs a lot more love to it if it can compete with the other two.

Davadin

EnOeZ wrote: »

Heavy still as useless as usual in PVP.

Kuro1n wrote: »

I'm a bit baffled. I told my friend HA is in 1.5 not really good in PVP, "you wont be a good tank running that ugly *** HA set of yours". Well, seems he got the last laugh, hes a total scrub in PVP but just as he wished, he's not dying until there are at least a few people hammering him for a minute or two. We are calling him "the rock", slow as *** and can't kill *** but at least he ain't going down. Will be interesting to see if it will be viable in 1.6.

EDIT: Today while PVPing we got jumped by some gankers and me and a friend quickly went down, so the only guy standing was the rock, I went afk to get a drink. Came back 3 or 4 minutes later to see them still hammering on him. In the end they just left and he ressed us.

Except if you agree to kill no one, like the "rock", then you can play the 24/7 block game where you can bore even your adversaries after having bored yourself ! yeaaaah.

Victory by boredom !! GG Heavy Armor !

for god's sake, this thread started in MAY 2014 - FOURTEEN. Then got necro'd in sept/october, and again in February....


STOP DOING THIS.

Tankqull

DoctorSwampy wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Heavy Armor could really use some tweaking upwards.

I'd love to see it add some more Stamina regeneration and/or Health regen to make it worth it, perhaps increase the Juggernaut damage bonus in some manner (turn it into Armor Pen or just increase the raw percentage). As it is, the only reasons to even have it are raw armor and the 20% block cost reduction at 5 pieces. There is no reason to have a full set (like there is with Light).

^ This.
I run 5 heavy 1 light 1 medium currently, and I do quite well. Granted I don't do NEAR as much damage as I could be doing, but heavy armor works well with what I'm built for. But heavy needs a lot more love to it if it can compete with the other two.

maybe you should recheck the idea of beeing a tank. heavy armor is exactly doing what it is supposed to do, make you sturdy as hell (especially if chosen the correct class)
if you do not want to be "the rock" do not use heavy armor as your armor choice.

Cagro

What class is this Rock guy Templar or DK? What race? Magic or Stamina? I am looking to start a PVP tank when console launches. Thanks.