What is wrong with Zenimax? Is the current situation out of their control?

b92303008rwb17_ESO

I have been playing MMORPG games for over 10 years and, except Funcom, I have never seen a company f*** up their game so bad like Zenimax did. The current situation is just like they are completely losing control of everything. It makes me wonder if there is something wrong with this company itself, like bad leadership or lack of experienced developers, etc. Maybe Zenimax Media should get rid of Matt Firor and hire someone who can really make this game work? I mean, it can't be worse, can it?

Don't get me wrong. I love this game. I love it so much that as a NB player without any alts I still have 50 days game time left and I will keep playing it. Now you can see how much I love this game.

Blackwidow

I have a love hate relationship with this game as well.

There are SO many things screwed up about this game, but I want to like it. I guess I'm more of a TES fan than I want to admit, but I really want this game to improve, so I can really play it.

However, I'm just about done. I login, walk around for a few min and log off.

This just sucks.

fiachsidhe

I'll repost this from another thread:

Yeah my friends unsubbed until ZoS get their *** together. I'm doing so as well.

Zenimax is just ridiculous.

It isn't just the nightblades either. Its the entirety of their ignorance, lack of foresight, the constant avoidable mistakes, the never learning from their mistakes, the lack of communication, ignoring their players and testers, their messed up priorities, the incompetence of their fixes, lack of effort in dealing with bots, bugs that last for months, endless bad ideas/designs.

Its like they want the game to fail at this point. Its like this entire game was an experiment in what gamers will put up with, and its getting more and more cartoonish.

They lowered everyone's stats across the board, made enemies harder.
They ruined so many builds, made so many sweeping changes, and these *** couldn't even bother giving out free respecs. And the skills they reset, you still need to relevel to morph!

Zenimax Online doesn't deserve my money. They simply don't. Not until they fix their ***.

---

Matt Firor needs to go. Its clear this guy is a bad idea generator. He has no idea what he's doing, and I feel bad for the team that has to work under him. He smacks of "out of touch/misguided team lead".

I had such high hopes for this game. I still do. I bad mouthed this game before launch up and down. After it launched, I happily ate my words. Then this patch drops and everything I accused ZoS of, is pretty much true.

This game more than anything, exemplifies that Zenimax is an inept company that relies on its modding community to fix its broken code. Without those generous and unthanked few, this is what it is a like when they have to fix their own games.

It would be one thing if good old Matt and company actually interacted with us on a semi-regular basis, but they don't.

alenae1b14_ESO

More Communication from Dev's/Community Reps would help.

zaria

alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »

More Communication from Dev's/Community Reps would help.

This, just stating that the veteran mob issue is an bug they work on will help a lot.

They commented on the kick and rollback bug and the color change in armor.

My guess is that the veteran mob goes under gameplay balance not bugs and the one who should inform about it is not on work and nobody other are allowed to post .
Yes I have seen far more idiotic things in business.

tilolyen_ESO

The silence from the company is deafening. Not to bring out the "I was in the business" line again, but I was in game development for an online company for 8 years and we had an "issue" with an expansion. Zenimax not coming to the forums and posting ANYTHING about the latest patch is clearly "We are in emergency / meltdown mode in the offices and WAY over their heads".

skarvika

It seems that with every new patch, an even bigger problem is presented than the last. I'd say as it stands, yes, they've lost control of their product and are desperately trying to put together the pieces but are being very careless about doing so. In a way I sympathize and understand, but I also think that a company this successful really must be held to a higher standard than what they're providing.

Nox_Aeterna

hehehe

Mate you got me thinking , since the start of this game , did the devs ever appear to be on control?

b92303008rwb17_ESO

fiachsidhe wrote: »

It isn't just the nightblades either. Its the entirety of their ignorance, lack of foresight, the constant avoidable mistakes, the never learning from their mistakes, the lack of communication, ignoring their players and testers, their messed up priorities, the incompetence of their fixes, lack of effort in dealing with bots, bugs that last for months, endless bad ideas/designs.

Considering all the numerous issues at present, I think there is a bigger problem than incompetency. I don't know if anyone has noticed that but when I saw the credits I couldn't help but thought "that is a really long list". And I just don't believe that there is short of talented people. With the issues coming from ALL aspects of the game, I can't think of any explanation better than "there is something wrong on the management level". Provided that Zenimax Media probably wouldn't let this franchise die and their investment gone fast and ugly like this, I guess or hope they will look into this soon.

Phantax

I'm not sure how much say Bethesda have over ESO/Zenimax but this whole fiasco is badly damaging the Elder Scrolls franchise. They (somebody) needs to step in, prioritise, kick some butt and sort things out before permanent damage is done ! ! !

DragonMother

It's Zenimax Online rather than Zenimax Media itself. Online is a branch, not the main company, and unfortunately they really are completely clueless with MMO's in general. If they were smart, they would take some tips from older game developers, or look at the failures of past games to realize what direction they are fast heading.

ZOS, just so ya know, Cash Cow = / = Half finished-bot infested-exploit ridden-bugged to crap game. You might want to rethink your ethics and methods of game development before you release another patch. Your QA needs more time, and more people with detail oriented focus to bug-hunt, and report what bugs there are present, longer than 3 days, like that bat-crazy idea of beta-phases...you need at least 2 weeks to a month to hunt down and find all of these bugs and exploits that are being used and abused at this time, and you can't possibly do it just relying on player feedback. Pick up the torch and start carrying it properly, it doesn't belong hanging upside down.

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO

Blackwidow wrote: »

I have a love hate relationship with this game as well.

There are SO many things screwed up about this game, but I want to like it. I guess I'm more of a TES fan than I want to admit, but I really want this game to improve, so I can really play it.

However, I'm just about done. I login, walk around for a few min and log off.

This just sucks.

+1 agreed @Blackwidow

KhajiitiLizard

I feel bad for the brilliant creative team of this game (story, art direction).

ciannait

ThatArgonianGuy wrote: »

I feel bad for the brilliant creative team of this game (story, art direction).

Me too. I did a little questing this evening and I felt sad listening to the voice acting (which I love). A lot of time went into the creative aspects of the game and it's all being set fire to by the technical issues.

Slash8915

ThatArgonianGuy wrote: »

I feel bad for the brilliant creative team of this game (story, art direction).

I agree here. I can tell these people put a lot of work into this game. I'm sure it's hard to see all that work unravel because of a crappy development team.

Garetth

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

fiachsidhe wrote: »

It isn't just the nightblades either. Its the entirety of their ignorance, lack of foresight, the constant avoidable mistakes, the never learning from their mistakes, the lack of communication, ignoring their players and testers, their messed up priorities, the incompetence of their fixes, lack of effort in dealing with bots, bugs that last for months, endless bad ideas/designs.

Considering all the numerous issues at present, I think there is a bigger problem than incompetency. I don't know if anyone has noticed that but when I saw the credits I couldn't help but thought "that is a really long list". And I just don't believe that there is short of talented people. With the issues coming from ALL aspects of the game, I can't think of any explanation better than "there is something wrong on the management level". Provided that Zenimax Media probably wouldn't let this franchise die and their investment gone fast and ugly like this, I guess or hope they will look into this soon.

Good luck with that idea. These people don't have the slightest grasp on the game they are presenting...none. Everything they are doing is clearly by the seat of their pants.

I bet there is not one employee who has made it past level 50...I would bet money on it.

Gilvoth

man cannot live on this much truth and be happy. very sadly i have to agree with the thread and posts here so far.

fiachsidhe

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

fiachsidhe wrote: »

It isn't just the nightblades either. Its the entirety of their ignorance, lack of foresight, the constant avoidable mistakes, the never learning from their mistakes, the lack of communication, ignoring their players and testers, their messed up priorities, the incompetence of their fixes, lack of effort in dealing with bots, bugs that last for months, endless bad ideas/designs.

Considering all the numerous issues at present, I think there is a bigger problem than incompetency. I don't know if anyone has noticed that but when I saw the credits I couldn't help but thought "that is a really long list". And I just don't believe that there is short of talented people. With the issues coming from ALL aspects of the game, I can't think of any explanation better than "there is something wrong on the management level". Provided that Zenimax Media probably wouldn't let this franchise die and their investment gone fast and ugly like this, I guess or hope they will look into this soon.

I have no doubts that this is a management problem. Usually the actual programmers aren't at fault. Many game companies are run on nepotism and cronyism. I'm pretty sure Zenimax is no different. No matter how good your programmers, they can't do a thing with inept leads/managers.

Reading their glassdoor page doesn't do a thing to curb this theory.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

"Horrible IT systems. Management paralyzed by bad data, fear of keeping their jobs and general incompetence. Some of the employees in HR are unethical, senior management cannot be trusted, and micro managers are really annoying. Employee benefits are not competitive, time off is extremely limited (10 days), no sick days, and work hours are greater than nine hours a day. Personalities and egos keep others from doing their job in a healthy and productive matter."

- No room for growth and development. Employees have been in the same role for over 3 years. Each person has their own process and territorial about their work.
- Several office personnel lack office etiquette (rude and confrontational). Be prepared to defend yourself or get thrown under the bus for doing your job or being you. The bad apples make it bad for the good ones.
- No structure. Clear disconnect between senior level management and regular staff. Senior management in old boys and gals club. "Do your time mentality"
- No work life / balance . Benefits do not consummate for extra time worked
- Stringent vacation policy. Employees are given 10 days off. No rollovers allowed. You only get 10 days.
- No sick days so you have to use from your 10 day balance. Most of the staff come to work sick so they don't have to use their 10 day personal time off. They spread their illness to other employees.
- Rapidly growing company with MANY growing pains.
- Cliquey groups. Take a look in the lunch room.
- Outdated office space.
- Company spends money in questionable places.
- Senior management lacks interpersonal skills and not approachable
- No development plan for employees. You are on your own.

– Managers with over inflated egos
Brown nose system for moving up
High level management live in a bubble-no knowledge of manager ego and oppression of staff
Those with weight issues need not apply.
Company offers no sick leave. You must use your vacation leave when you are sick.

Lovely

I believed it was lack of experience at first. Now I'm not sure sure anymore, since it seemed to be done on purpose. Must be something I am not aware of.

For example - I'm thinking of Uwe Boll (movie director / producer). Due to German Tax Laws at the time, he was allowed to write off 100% of investment as a tax deduction; the investor was then only required to pay taxes on the profits made by the movie; if the movie lost money, the investor would get a tax writeoff. So he made a crapton of bad movies based on game franchises.

I suspect something is being done here as well. They are seemingly doing everything in their power to displease and close this game fast.

/tinfoil hat off

skarvika

Phantax wrote: »

I'm not sure how much say Bethesda have over ESO/Zenimax but this whole fiasco is badly damaging the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Very little. Todd Howard and his team have next to nothing to do with this title, but yes I agree. Whenever I've seen the name Bethesda or Zenimax on a game, I instantly equate them with quality and take interest in the game.
This is a real s@$%stain on their good streak of excellent games.
Of course, I don't think this will hurt the main games much as most of us have probably already played at least one of the games in the main series and I believe many of us are aware that ESO and TES games are made by different studios.
While this game will be the "ET" on Atari of MMOs, I believe the majority will disassociate it with the franchise made by Bethesda.

Phantax

It does make you wonder if 'anybody' on the technical side of development has ever played an Elder Scrolls game (and I mean played, not just looked at for 10 mins)
The art/asthetics are spot on, it looks like an Elder Scrolls world, but as you say all that is ruined by shoddy gameplay implementation.

DragonMother

@fiachsidhe Right on the money there. It gets worse, the CS department is contracted, the people heading them are lawyers, not developers, and honestly the developers department meetings consist more of generating revenue than actual functional discussion about game development, design ideas, or think-tanking of any kind beyond money-money-money.

What's wrong with ZOS is they have gone the way that most big-name-mmo's have, before it's even actually past it's first month of prerelease. "Focus on making money, not the player experiences, or the minor bugs here and there, or the small class breaking three or four in that one there...or the memory leaks.." You see what I mean?

fiachsidhe

DragonMother wrote: »

@fiachsidhe Right on the money there. It gets worse, the CS department is contracted, the people heading them are lawyers, not developers, and honestly the developers department meetings consist more of generating revenue than actual functional discussion about game development, design ideas, or think-tanking of any kind beyond money-money-money.

What's wrong with ZOS is they have gone the way that most big-name-mmo's have, before it's even actually past it's first month of prerelease. "Focus on making money, not the player experiences, or the minor bugs here and there, or the small class breaking three or four in that one there...or the memory leaks.." You see what I mean?

Yeah, the same thing happened with Star Wars the Old Republic. Bioware listening to EA marketing, rather than their programmers.

DragonMother

fiachsidhe wrote: »

DragonMother wrote: »

@fiachsidhe Right on the money there. It gets worse, the CS department is contracted, the people heading them are lawyers, not developers, and honestly the developers department meetings consist more of generating revenue than actual functional discussion about game development, design ideas, or think-tanking of any kind beyond money-money-money.

What's wrong with ZOS is they have gone the way that most big-name-mmo's have, before it's even actually past it's first month of prerelease. "Focus on making money, not the player experiences, or the minor bugs here and there, or the small class breaking three or four in that one there...or the memory leaks.." You see what I mean?

Yeah, the same thing happened with Star Wars the Old Republic. Bioware listening to EA marketing, rather than their programmers.

Unfortunately I'm not sure what can save this sinking ship at this point. I'm invested in this as well and I am not happy with what's become of my favorite game series under ZOS's watch. I'd love to know if contacting Bethesad to request another company to take over the game under their approval would be appropriate, or not.

It feels like Zenimax simply doesn't give two toots if the game floats or sinks at this point, even though the players have gone out of their way to help report bots, report bugs, and report client issues since day one of the testing phases.

b92303008rwb17_ESO

Garetth wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

fiachsidhe wrote: »

It isn't just the nightblades either. Its the entirety of their ignorance, lack of foresight, the constant avoidable mistakes, the never learning from their mistakes, the lack of communication, ignoring their players and testers, their messed up priorities, the incompetence of their fixes, lack of effort in dealing with bots, bugs that last for months, endless bad ideas/designs.

Considering all the numerous issues at present, I think there is a bigger problem than incompetency. I don't know if anyone has noticed that but when I saw the credits I couldn't help but thought "that is a really long list". And I just don't believe that there is short of talented people. With the issues coming from ALL aspects of the game, I can't think of any explanation better than "there is something wrong on the management level". Provided that Zenimax Media probably wouldn't let this franchise die and their investment gone fast and ugly like this, I guess or hope they will look into this soon.

Good luck with that idea. These people don't have the slightest grasp on the game they are presenting...none. Everything they are doing is clearly by the seat of their pants.

I bet there is not one employee who has made it past level 50...I would bet money on it.

Then let us pray that the financial report will wake those board members of Zenimax Media up.

DragonMother

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Garetth wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

fiachsidhe wrote: »

It isn't just the nightblades either. Its the entirety of their ignorance, lack of foresight, the constant avoidable mistakes, the never learning from their mistakes, the lack of communication, ignoring their players and testers, their messed up priorities, the incompetence of their fixes, lack of effort in dealing with bots, bugs that last for months, endless bad ideas/designs.

Considering all the numerous issues at present, I think there is a bigger problem than incompetency. I don't know if anyone has noticed that but when I saw the credits I couldn't help but thought "that is a really long list". And I just don't believe that there is short of talented people. With the issues coming from ALL aspects of the game, I can't think of any explanation better than "there is something wrong on the management level". Provided that Zenimax Media probably wouldn't let this franchise die and their investment gone fast and ugly like this, I guess or hope they will look into this soon.

Good luck with that idea. These people don't have the slightest grasp on the game they are presenting...none. Everything they are doing is clearly by the seat of their pants.

I bet there is not one employee who has made it past level 50...I would bet money on it.

Then let us pray that the financial report will wake those board members of Zenimax Media up.

One can only hope.

Gaudrath

One question guys. Is this your first MMO?

fiachsidhe

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Garetth wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

fiachsidhe wrote: »

It isn't just the nightblades either. Its the entirety of their ignorance, lack of foresight, the constant avoidable mistakes, the never learning from their mistakes, the lack of communication, ignoring their players and testers, their messed up priorities, the incompetence of their fixes, lack of effort in dealing with bots, bugs that last for months, endless bad ideas/designs.

Considering all the numerous issues at present, I think there is a bigger problem than incompetency. I don't know if anyone has noticed that but when I saw the credits I couldn't help but thought "that is a really long list". And I just don't believe that there is short of talented people. With the issues coming from ALL aspects of the game, I can't think of any explanation better than "there is something wrong on the management level". Provided that Zenimax Media probably wouldn't let this franchise die and their investment gone fast and ugly like this, I guess or hope they will look into this soon.

Good luck with that idea. These people don't have the slightest grasp on the game they are presenting...none. Everything they are doing is clearly by the seat of their pants.

I bet there is not one employee who has made it past level 50...I would bet money on it.

Then let us pray that the financial report will wake those board members of Zenimax Media up.

I hear that.

Rylana

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

The silence from the company is deafening. Not to bring out the "I was in the business" line again, but I was in game development for an online company for 8 years and we had an "issue" with an expansion. Zenimax not coming to the forums and posting ANYTHING about the latest patch is clearly "We are in emergency / meltdown mode in the offices and WAY over their heads".

Hello Smedly, you horses ass

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO

fiachsidhe wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

fiachsidhe wrote: »

It isn't just the nightblades either. Its the entirety of their ignorance, lack of foresight, the constant avoidable mistakes, the never learning from their mistakes, the lack of communication, ignoring their players and testers, their messed up priorities, the incompetence of their fixes, lack of effort in dealing with bots, bugs that last for months, endless bad ideas/designs.

Considering all the numerous issues at present, I think there is a bigger problem than incompetency. I don't know if anyone has noticed that but when I saw the credits I couldn't help but thought "that is a really long list". And I just don't believe that there is short of talented people. With the issues coming from ALL aspects of the game, I can't think of any explanation better than "there is something wrong on the management level". Provided that Zenimax Media probably wouldn't let this franchise die and their investment gone fast and ugly like this, I guess or hope they will look into this soon.

I have no doubts that this is a management problem. Usually the actual programmers aren't at fault. Many game companies are run on nepotism and cronyism. I'm pretty sure Zenimax is no different. No matter how good your programmers, they can't do a thing with inept leads/managers.

Reading their glassdoor page doesn't do a thing to curb this theory.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ZeniMax-Media-Reviews-E134492.htm

"Horrible IT systems. Management paralyzed by bad data, fear of keeping their jobs and general incompetence. Some of the employees in HR are unethical, senior management cannot be trusted, and micro managers are really annoying. Employee benefits are not competitive, time off is extremely limited (10 days), no sick days, and work hours are greater than nine hours a day. Personalities and egos keep others from doing their job in a healthy and productive matter."

- No room for growth and development. Employees have been in the same role for over 3 years. Each person has their own process and territorial about their work.
- Several office personnel lack office etiquette (rude and confrontational). Be prepared to defend yourself or get thrown under the bus for doing your job or being you. The bad apples make it bad for the good ones.
- No structure. Clear disconnect between senior level management and regular staff. Senior management in old boys and gals club. "Do your time mentality"
- No work life / balance . Benefits do not consummate for extra time worked
- Stringent vacation policy. Employees are given 10 days off. No rollovers allowed. You only get 10 days.
- No sick days so you have to use from your 10 day balance. Most of the staff come to work sick so they don't have to use their 10 day personal time off. They spread their illness to other employees.
- Rapidly growing company with MANY growing pains.
- Cliquey groups. Take a look in the lunch room.
- Outdated office space.
- Company spends money in questionable places.
- Senior management lacks interpersonal skills and not approachable
- No development plan for employees. You are on your own.

– Managers with over inflated egos
Brown nose system for moving up
High level management live in a bubble-no knowledge of manager ego and oppression of staff
Those with weight issues need not apply.
Company offers no sick leave. You must use your vacation leave when you are sick.

Thank you for the link. the reviews were insightful.

DragonMother

If there was some way to contact the parent company of the game-series that owns the copyright, I would recommend doing so. It feels like ZOS is fumbling with the ball, and are having trouble putting their helmets on properly at this point. ._.