The End of an Era!

azerothheroes_ESO

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

@azerothheroes_ESO ok... maybe not.... unselfish!

shhhhh...i'm a lil drunk...but yah...shhh

LexonLightbringer

@azerothheroes_ESO I know what economics suggest is successful, that's the point I am trying to make... throw it out the door and create something unique and worthy of a Gamer's attention and money. Not some sugar coated Dog Poop (which I am not saying ESO is entirely, just the Whole MMO genre the last ten years)

azerothheroes_ESO

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

azerothheroes_ESO wrote: »

Are you serious? OKAY OP let me break it down for ya...
1) Sales...c'mon fool
2) Money...see "1"
3) C'mon fool
4) okay seriously though...say that happened...you'd be on here complaining about not having a pc that could run it...if not you'd be on here complaining that you found a glitch...truth is.....see number 5...
5) growth...(DERP)...it's a human condition...which is better "everything "NOW"...or hey i was a part of that and built a legacy upon it...yeah things had a rough star (life much?) but now things are nice and polished and DANG I know things so well i can kill stuffz...truth be told...if you just have everthing right then (btw if they actually did what you suggest you would be looking at a 30 dollar a month sub fee b/c NOBODY else has done it) you (as a human that needs growth to keep entertained) would be bored within 8 months to a year if not sooner...fact is ..as much as we hate...we love it...change is good...all that...truth is if they delivered a "perfect mmo" then you would be playing a "crappy" mmo the next month...so that you could complain...I for one support zenimax online studios...not because they deliver..but because they can deliver a genre that I LOVE...and that I can see the potential for growth in it...

Drunken rant is now over...

30 Dollars because nobody has done it = greed. Can't run the game with all the content? really? That would mean WOW crashed right? In two years you will have installed 50 gigabytes or more of this game, I bet you can still play it then. Your logic is the worst, but still appreciate your comment , so Thanks!

I was making a general comment about "reasons you may whine in the future"...but yes given that everything is provided...i'm sure ppl would find a reason to whine...thanks for addressing the REST of my post though

azerothheroes_ESO

azerothheroes_ESO wrote: »

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

azerothheroes_ESO wrote: »

Are you serious? OKAY OP let me break it down for ya...
1) Sales...c'mon fool
2) Money...see "1"
3) C'mon fool
4) okay seriously though...say that happened...you'd be on here complaining about not having a pc that could run it...if not you'd be on here complaining that you found a glitch...truth is.....see number 5...
5) growth...(DERP)...it's a human condition...which is better "everything "NOW"...or hey i was a part of that and built a legacy upon it...yeah things had a rough star (life much?) but now things are nice and polished and DANG I know things so well i can kill stuffz...truth be told...if you just have everthing right then (btw if they actually did what you suggest you would be looking at a 30 dollar a month sub fee b/c NOBODY else has done it) you (as a human that needs growth to keep entertained) would be bored within 8 months to a year if not sooner...fact is ..as much as we hate...we love it...change is good...all that...truth is if they delivered a "perfect mmo" then you would be playing a "crappy" mmo the next month...so that you could complain...I for one support zenimax online studios...not because they deliver..but because they can deliver a genre that I LOVE...and that I can see the potential for growth in it...

Drunken rant is now over...

30 Dollars because nobody has done it = greed. Can't run the game with all the content? really? That would mean WOW crashed right? In two years you will have installed 50 gigabytes or more of this game, I bet you can still play it then. Your logic is the worst, but still appreciate your comment , so Thanks!

I was making a general comment about "reasons you may whine in the future"...but yes given that everything is provided...i'm sure ppl would find a reason to whine...thanks for addressing the REST of my post though

ALSO...30 because nobody has done it is the same reason hybrid cars cost more...it's because nobody has done it and they realize their product is WORTH more...seriously have you ever even sold anything?

Vlaxitov

I think its funny that people think there is some specific mmorpg problem.

Good games in general are getting scarce per game that gets released imo.

Also imo, that is because the talent is either getting scarce or stretched very thin around the current gaming market.

Yes it looks better, has more potential than it used to, but the delivery just isn't there like it was and I think that part lies on the shoulders of the actual people making or directing the production of games, all games, not just mmos.

Just like with music or any other form of art, not every era is equal. I don't think video games are an exception to that. My theory that might enrage a fanboy is that most current developers are tantamount to 80's hair band members. They are trying to make something that sells over something that they really personally like. The marketing is more important than the integrity of their craft.

It would take lower commercial expectations to turn that around and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

LexonLightbringer

@azerothheroes_ESO My Cuddly Wubbly. I understand what you are saying and its all true in a capitalist Economy. But just because its true, doesn't make it right. We are talking about the difference between fast cash and earned cash. Nobody that lives by our current standard is earning cash, its thievery at best. I want them to earn my money, is that wrong?

azerothheroes_ESO

Vlaxitov wrote: »

I think its funny that people think there is some specific mmorpg problem.

Good games in general are getting scarce per game that gets release imo.

Also imo, that is because the talent is either getting scarce or stretched very thin around the current gaming market.

Yes it looks better, has more potential than it used to, but the delivery just isn't there like it was and I think that part lies on the shoulders of the actual people making or directing the production of games, all games, not just mmos.

Just like with music or any other form of art, not ever era is equal. I don't think video games are an exception to that. My theory that might enrage a fanboy is that most current developers are tantamount to 80's hair band members. They are trying to make something that sells over something that they really personally like. The marketing is more important than the integrity of their craft.

It would take lower commercial expectations to turn that around and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

See now at least this is something I can agree with...to an extent...it's honest and to the point...but...i can't blame them personally for wanting to make something that sells...I have a newborn daughter..and i would sell you ocean front property in Arkansas if that meant paying the bills ...or providing for her future...the fact is I have fun with this game...that's all that matters to "me" ...if people don't have fun playing it...they should stop ranting and begging for more/"cater to me now" crap...and simply go somewhere else...Skyrim was AWESOME and i'm sure many ppl that have posted are SP (single player) elder scrolls fans...go enjoy them and look forward to the next...but don't Damn Zenimax for providing a product that consumers are willing to ...consume.

Vlaxitov

azerothheroes_ESO wrote: »

Vlaxitov wrote: »

I think its funny that people think there is some specific mmorpg problem.

Good games in general are getting scarce per game that gets release imo.

Also imo, that is because the talent is either getting scarce or stretched very thin around the current gaming market.

Yes it looks better, has more potential than it used to, but the delivery just isn't there like it was and I think that part lies on the shoulders of the actual people making or directing the production of games, all games, not just mmos.

Just like with music or any other form of art, not ever era is equal. I don't think video games are an exception to that. My theory that might enrage a fanboy is that most current developers are tantamount to 80's hair band members. They are trying to make something that sells over something that they really personally like. The marketing is more important than the integrity of their craft.

It would take lower commercial expectations to turn that around and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

See now at least this is something I can agree with...to an extent...it's honest and to the point...but...i can't blame them personally for wanting to make something that sells...I have a newborn daughter..and i would sell you ocean front property in Arkansas if that meant paying the bills ...or providing for her future...the fact is I have fun with this game...that's all that matters to "me" ...if people don't have fun playing it...they should stop ranting and begging for more/"cater to me now" crap...and simply go somewhere else...Skyrim was AWESOME and i'm sure many ppl that have posted are SP (single player) elder scrolls fans...go enjoy them and look forward to the next...but don't Damn Zenimax for providing a product that consumers are willing to ...consume.

I really wasn't applying what I said to Zenimax specifically rather than the current state of affairs for the entire video game industry. I can't blame a commercial glam band for trying to make money but I can't like it either.

azerothheroes_ESO

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

@azerothheroes_ESO My Cuddly Wubbly. I understand what you are saying and its all true in a capitalist Economy. But just because its true, doesn't make it right. We are talking about the difference between fast cash and earned cash. Nobody that lives by our current standard is earning cash, its thievery at best. I want them to earn my money, is that wrong?

let's be honest here...did you give them your money? lol...Because..i hate to tell you ...but if you earned that money..then GIVE it to someone else...well that's either a gift or they earned it...now if they earned it on your stupidity that's just you being stupid...if they earned it by robbing you at gunpoint then maybe you have a case

azerothheroes_ESO

azerothheroes_ESO wrote: »

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

@azerothheroes_ESO My Cuddly Wubbly. I understand what you are saying and its all true in a capitalist Economy. But just because its true, doesn't make it right. We are talking about the difference between fast cash and earned cash. Nobody that lives by our current standard is earning cash, its thievery at best. I want them to earn my money, is that wrong?

let's be honest here...did you give them your money? lol...Because..i hate to tell you ...but if you earned that money..then GIVE it to someone else...well that's either a gift or they earned it...now if they earned it on your stupidity that's just you being stupid...if they earned it by robbing you at gunpoint then maybe you have a case

More...more words follow...

Let's say this...you walk into a casino ( or even better you decide to buy stock) you invest your hard earned moneys in that stock/casino game...you're only hope is that the house will provide you with want you want...(or the stock will raise which is also what you want) fact is at the end of the day no matter what happens..you gambled...you hoped that something would be X...and if it's not "X" you're sad/mad...but blaming anyone other than yourself...knowing full well what you're getting into ...is silly. "right" and "wrong" don't have anything to do with you CHOOSING how to spend your cash.

LexonLightbringer

@azerothheroes_ESO I wouldn't be having this conversation if I didn't purchase this game. I knew what I was buying, but I like being a voice for others who may not have known.

azerothheroes_ESO

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

@azerothheroes_ESO I wouldn't be having this conversation if I didn't purchase this game. I knew what I was buying, but I like being a voice for others who may not have known.

you like having a voice that doesn't answer questions that pose arguments to your original(not so original) ideas?...you have failed to respond (directly) to any of the questions i've posed you...if you were a video game i would be posting in a forum about how ppl should avoid you cuz you don't do "x" right...you bore me...I'm going to sleep...if you choose to respond (in another way other than boring) i'll be back on tomorrow sometime...if i deign to read your response that is...

curlyqloub14_ESO

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

Thanks for including my other noteworthy discussion. Your suggestion that these two discussions are one in the same is misguided. This discussion is very broad in its scope encompassing a variety of interests. The other discussion is centralized and very specific.

Yes, this discussion is wider in scope, but it is still clearly inspired by your personal disappointment that you won't get player housing for a long time. You mentioned the housing thing in this new post at least 3 times - maybe more, I'm not sure b/c I couldn't bear to go back and read the whole OP again. But I'm pretty positive if you had heard player housing was coming out in a week, your post and this entire thread would never have been made.

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

This game has been in development for four years or more, imagine if they had triple the people and double the budget.

/facepalm.

I'd love to know how you think any company could triple it's staff with only double the budget. Basic ratios would disagree with you.

LexonLightbringer wrote: »

Let me be clear what I suggest is not good business in a capitalist economy. That's the whole point i am trying to make, in order to make a game that fulfills its promise, it needs to place its customers needs before the needs of that companies profit. Anything else is a hollow marketed promise of greed and corruption, who wants to pay for that?

A company that places is customers before it's profit? Those companies don't exist b/c they can't- they fail. The "bottom line" exists because it's what keeps any company going. You must generate funding > to hire/pay employees > to make products > that please your customer. It does not work the other way around. Money will always come first, b/c it is the catalyst for everything else. The world of business is BASED on money. In addition, a company can't put its customers needs before profit, b/c it is impossible to please everyone. Considering the fact that humans are not drones, and we all have varied preferences and opinions, if a company tried to please everyone, they would never get a single product finished. What you're suggesting is not good business, period...in any economy, not just the capitalist societies.

But seriously, I'd like to know when you find this utopian world where altruistic businesses abound, and they are in it for the customer (not the money).
....And where we all walk around peacefully in white silk robes, and everyone is thin and beautiful, and we all agree all the time, and our s*it all smells like roses.
...And everyone puts everyone else's needs first, and no one is selfish or cares about money at all, b/c obviously in this world, money doesn't even exist - smiles and hugs will be the world currency.
...And in that world, you can develop this utopian game of yours, and it will take 10 years to make, and no one will mind, you won't charge anything for it b/c you and your entire staff will be paid in full just with the satisfaction of knowing that you have addressed the needs of every customer in the world, and pleased them all.

...And then someone will make a complaint that your game won't let them design a character made entirely of cheese...

...

SFBryan18

The idea that everyone should get what they want is unrealistic. I want to have rpg sex with random players because I also play gta. Should I also get what I want? Every game has the same complaints... Gimme, gimme, gimme. The reality is, you get what you get, take it or leave it.

LexonLightbringer

Weird robotic responses

LexonLightbringer

We are the economy, eat me, eat me now because I say so, you don't like the taste? to bad.... eat me, eat me till nothings left, then regurgitate me, just so you can eat me again.

jpp

Who completes ESO PvE (to VR10) in one month? The one who can play 11hrs per day or the one who knows some tricks to level up quickly. These people will never be satisfied and they will also play other MMOs with same intensivity no matter what ESO makes.
This is obvoius that ESO can not target on these players because game would need plans for VR50 right now with very small quality of content (what actually I'm dissapointed of - but it is not short to describe).

RazzPitazz

PVP specific games are called MOBA's.....

Requiemslove

@LexonLightbringer‌ The entirety of your argument is flawed because humanity is varied and complex and believe it or not any human can be one and all four of those "groups" and that is where you fall down. The way you say it, would suggest every player is inherently a specific thing, these games don't work like that. Yes sure, people may lean towards one thing more than others, but sometimes get the itch to go do something else.

frwinters_ESO

MMO's destroy souls. I don't remember playing an MMO where you go on there forums and its full of people happy and giving constructive criticism. Its mostly crying, whining, anger, hate, trolling etc etc.

Vendersleigh

hilelorangutan wrote: »

PvE Solo - Skyrim
RP - Secondlife
PVP - League of Legends

This is a thing. I think one could make the argument that MMOs truly are the only games that are even made for PvE Group content, and so this should always be the priority when creating new content. The other niches are just add-ons that really can find their bliss elsewhere if they needed to.

Second Life does not appeal to a lot of roleplayers.

Salsadoom

There are too many issues to count and I don't want to write an essay so I will just stab at the core of your point.

If you want a game that lasts or can appeal to multiple crowds then you have to slow the progress down.

It really is that simple. If it takes 6 months from launch to get to lvl 50, then guess what, by the time people start hitting 50 then new content is coming out, because people are hitting the ceiling slower you have more time to add content before people need more. More importantly you have more time to test.

Maybe 6 months is too long, but I am pretty sure we had level 50's in about a week. That seems way to quick, how can you possibly keep up with that sort of speed and demand? I don't think you can, so you end up with issues as things don't work as well as planned.

If you make it take longer to level you may lose some people, but I think you may lose more people by rushing content and having issues. It may be too late now, but I would think slowing progression down would of given more time to fix issues as they come up, slowed down the rush of issues as people hit different content slower, and allowed more time to make sure content was solid and allow more freedom to address more types of players.

Dekkameron

Veteran rank content should be something entirely optional and doesn't effect the normal game instead of what ZOS is doing and making it mandatory.

Balls am i going to level 7 chars to VR10. I would do it in WoW to get to 90. but not in this.

Iceman_mat

OP: I see what you are saying but I don't see separating the genre's of MMO (RP, PVE, PVP) into their own thing working because then you just have RPG's, RTS, Fighting games.

A true / good MMO actually allows a player to do these things (PvP, PvE, RP) at anytime, effortlessly. Even though to make it happen effortlessly takes a lot of effort.

In ESO's defense, with it's complaints you see on the forums (quite amusing if you think about it) they did get the one thing (out of many) that is important (which funny enough I said in the beta stress tests should take a top priority) is the connection. Out of all these posts not many (if even one?) has been along the lines of "WTF connection issues again!!!$!#$!$!!". I mean if you can't connect then nothing else matters right?

As for the other stuff, I think ESO suffers from the times we live in as gamers really. When games are getting pushed so fast that the norm is becoming "pre-orders" and "dlcs" and reviews are usually paid by the very distributors if the games they review on top of gamers who "power level / world first" through content, then a game like ESO (which throws back to the days of non-dlcs and power levelers) is gonna take a lot of slack.

As for the content issue, again I think the main problem was handled on release (connection) the next thing I would like to see (2 - 4 / 6 months) is balancing skills, fixing know bugs (major) and possibly class balances as the last one can always change depending on player builds. Hence flavour of the month saying.

6 months if not a player home system / npc system then an announcement of something on that scale that is being release (not to be) on the 6 month period which would be followed by 2 - 3 months of fixes / balances which then leads into a minor release on month 4 (npcs?) that leads into a big 2 year thing.

Having a subscription player base I feel should follow something like this because your players are paying you to improve / expand the game they play. It gives the developer incentive / creative freedom which I find F2P's don't.

Personally I see people yelling for a F2P game in 6 months as a want for this game to fail but that's just me.


-Cheers

JessieColt

Moonchilde wrote: »

Try SecondLife. More content than you can experience in 6 months, definitely.

The reason why Second Life has so much content is because it is 99.99999% user created.

Linden Lab made and maintains the code base, but nearly everything in the game since since initial release over 10 years ago has been created by the users themselves.

That content also never disappears. Once you obtain the content, you have it forever, even if the creator leaves and never comes back.

It also means that anyone, and everyone, can create their own content, within 5 minutes of downloading the software.

If the user base in Second Life had to rely on the developer to release new content, the platform would most likely have folded and shut down years ago.

Second Life is also completely and utterly free to play. You do not have to pay for the software, downloading it is free. You do not have to pay a monthly subscription. As a user you never have to pay a single real dime for access to anything that Second Life or the users offer.

Second Life is an entirely different kettle of fish compared to typical MMO's that exist.

This is neither good, nor bad, just how it is.

But in an environment like Second Life, where content is generated by the users, it will always be easier to have more content than the user base can consume.

yodased

The game you want will never exist because there will always be new content to make. When is "enough is enough".

No matter how much content is put out there at launch there will people that blow through it faster than the devs ever thought possible.

steveb16_ESO46

Iceman_mat wrote: »

Personally I see people yelling for a F2P game in 6 months as a want for this game to fail but that's just me.


-Cheers

Nobody is yelling for that. People are saying that if they keep on screwing things up and driving customers away an FTP relaunch is the last throw of the dice.

You cannot get away with releasing an unfixed beta 6 months before it's actually fit for release and then charge people subs on the grounds you'll get around to fixing things at some unspecified time in the future nowadays.

You certainly cannot then keep breaking stuff with patches.

Not when there are plenty of quality competitors launching or about to launch.

I've been looking forward to this game for years. I took out a 6 month sub as soon as I could. I want this to be a great game. But each week my enthusiasm drains a little away.

The bugs, the catalog of new bugs each patch brings, the bizarre self-inflicted wounds decisions that are made. The dreadful Customer service and communications.

I really get the impression that either Zenimax don't know what they are doing or they just don't care and are going to plough ahead regardless of anything.

And yes - I believe the end result will be a big internal shake up with heads rolling and a FTP Relaunch within 9 months.

wrlifeboil

Even the forum mods are laying low. This thread contains very little in relation to eso. Forum mods would have been all over it like white on rice before the patch.

psufan5

Hey OP, most DLCs are for high end. Thus, a goal to reach. Most people race through the lower end crap, to get to higher end content. Why would anyone want to go back to newbville to do new stuff?

Spryt

Problem is people want lots of content that they can do really fast.