Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
The End of an Era!
Maybe the MMO Genre should be discontinued. Replacing it with a genre called Co-Specific. Every post I have seen the last four years has someone saying that all MMO's take time to develop.
I recently created a Discussion detailing an interview conducted by IGN. In this interview Creative Director Paul Sage mentions Housing and the Justice System, the expected timelines for them to be incorporated into the game, and some other information about the Thief's Guild.
I received various amounts of opinions in regards to that interview. But one such opinion was found throughout, that MMO's take time and that we shouldn't expect all content to be delivered at launch. That if we got such content at launch we would consume it within 2 months and be bored.
Trust me I understand that logic, not because I agree with it, because that has become the norm in MMO genre Business.
What I don't understand is if we are able to consume all the content that an MMO has created at launch, good or bad, how do companies ever expect to retain players with any consistency. I am hopeful someday a company will develop and MMO that has so much content at launch that even if you tried to consume it all it would take 6 months or more. This imaginary company would benefit from this because it would provide them time too develop new content within that six months.
Obviously the original content would have to cater to every core (RP, PVP, PVE, ETC...).
But that reality is not upon us. What we have today is products that at launch can be consumed within a month or two. Sure we get updates to this content every month or two if you play a subscription game, but does that new content cater to everyone? Should it?
When I hear opinions that player housing should not even be included into this game, or opinions that its okay if it takes a year or two; I get frustrated. You have to understand that an MMO, a successful one, has to satisfy all of its customers with every Major Update. If an MMO chooses not too they leave some customers behind.
For example, Craglorn is for the PVE Grouping crowd that has consumed all of the PVE content. But what about the RP crowd, the pvp crowd, the pve solo crowd? Where's there content? Is it six months down the road? is it a year. Surely they have consumed all of the content that was designed for them, just like the PVE Grouping has.
A company can choose to do whatever it wants, But those choices have consequences. Some of those consequences are people leaving the game because they don't have anything to eat, they are starving.
This is why I think Co-Specific would work. Its not an MMO built around keeping people in the game even though that content doesn't exist for them. Its a game where its catered to a specific group of individuals. So for example a game that's created for just PVP. Maybe a game created just for RP. This genre would not have a little bit of everything, it would be very specific to the crowd.
I know I sound loopy, and in reality I don't want that kind of game. I mention it though to show how lopsided and MMO can be at delivering content for everyone that makes up an MMO.
If a company decides to make an MMO, then it should also decide that every Major Update should include something for every crowd. To suggest every crowd is happy in ESO after this Update is selfish and arrogant. Some people are starving right now, they will be starving tomorrow, and if ESO has anything to say about it some of them will have to starve for at least a year.
If you can't provide regular updates for everyone, don't expect a certain population to stick around. The people that leave this game because housing is a year out in development are justified, not entitled little whiner's!
Edited by LexonLightbringer on 23 May 2014 03:59 I recently created a Discussion detailing an interview conducted by IGN. In this interview Creative Director Paul Sage mentions Housing and the Justice System, the expected timelines for them to be incorporated into the game, and some other information about the Thief's Guild.
I received various amounts of opinions in regards to that interview. But one such opinion was found throughout, that MMO's take time and that we shouldn't expect all content to be delivered at launch. That if we got such content at launch we would consume it within 2 months and be bored.
Trust me I understand that logic, not because I agree with it, because that has become the norm in MMO genre Business.
What I don't understand is if we are able to consume all the content that an MMO has created at launch, good or bad, how do companies ever expect to retain players with any consistency. I am hopeful someday a company will develop and MMO that has so much content at launch that even if you tried to consume it all it would take 6 months or more. This imaginary company would benefit from this because it would provide them time too develop new content within that six months.
Obviously the original content would have to cater to every core (RP, PVP, PVE, ETC...).
But that reality is not upon us. What we have today is products that at launch can be consumed within a month or two. Sure we get updates to this content every month or two if you play a subscription game, but does that new content cater to everyone? Should it?
When I hear opinions that player housing should not even be included into this game, or opinions that its okay if it takes a year or two; I get frustrated. You have to understand that an MMO, a successful one, has to satisfy all of its customers with every Major Update. If an MMO chooses not too they leave some customers behind.
For example, Craglorn is for the PVE Grouping crowd that has consumed all of the PVE content. But what about the RP crowd, the pvp crowd, the pve solo crowd? Where's there content? Is it six months down the road? is it a year. Surely they have consumed all of the content that was designed for them, just like the PVE Grouping has.
A company can choose to do whatever it wants, But those choices have consequences. Some of those consequences are people leaving the game because they don't have anything to eat, they are starving.
This is why I think Co-Specific would work. Its not an MMO built around keeping people in the game even though that content doesn't exist for them. Its a game where its catered to a specific group of individuals. So for example a game that's created for just PVP. Maybe a game created just for RP. This genre would not have a little bit of everything, it would be very specific to the crowd.
I know I sound loopy, and in reality I don't want that kind of game. I mention it though to show how lopsided and MMO can be at delivering content for everyone that makes up an MMO.
If a company decides to make an MMO, then it should also decide that every Major Update should include something for every crowd. To suggest every crowd is happy in ESO after this Update is selfish and arrogant. Some people are starving right now, they will be starving tomorrow, and if ESO has anything to say about it some of them will have to starve for at least a year.
If you can't provide regular updates for everyone, don't expect a certain population to stick around. The people that leave this game because housing is a year out in development are justified, not entitled little whiner's!
17
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ciannait✭✭✭The reality is those types of games will never be made because when you limit your audience like that, you limit sales. You'll never get company executives to sign off on an idea that makes them less money and not more.
I see what you're saying, though. I'm barely level 20, probably spend more time on the forums than in-game, and have more alts than I know what to do with, all of whom I seem to have gimped. (Go, me.) Craglorn offers me nothing right now.6 -
harnessedyeti9✭✭✭Very well put. Housing not being a priority right now disappoints me. But frankly so many other things about this game need to be fleshed out I'm not going to cancel my sub over that.
Rather, I'm going to cancel my sub because of the stupid design decisions that have robbed this game of a lot of fun and uniqueness.6 -
Moonchilde✭✭✭Try SecondLife. More content than you can experience in 6 months, definitely.
Seriously, do you know how long it takes to generate content for a 3d world? To make enough original content to satisfy your appetite, the venture capital required to get that all designed and built and tested to your satisfaction would just not be available.
Who has 200 million to spend on a game who's player base isn't reliable - its such a fickle market that players threaten to unsub at the drop of a hat. Your demands and behavior are part of this risk assessment. Unless the market culture changes, the level of risk on investing in that market will not change.Edited by Moonchilde on 23 May 2014 04:1210 -
harnessedyeti9✭✭✭Moonchilde wrote: »Who has 200 million to spend on a game who's player base isn't reliable - its such a fickle market that players threaten to unsub at the drop of a hat. Your demands and behavior are part of this risk assessment. Unless the market culture changes, the level of risk on investing in that market will not change.
Zenimax Online Studios.
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HerbZula✭✭Its ok to pump out content or delay content drops cant make everyone happy. Just make sure the *** works so it can be played. Im guessing almost 1/2 of the player base cant log on or play unhindered, ie lag, non visible mobs, broken quests, bots killing dungeon bosses fast,,,.... I know i cant. Same problem that was in BETA. The fix for it in BETA does not work now..0 -
Phaedryn✭✭✭The reality is those types of games will never be made because when you limit your audience like that, you limit sales. You'll never get company executives to sign off on an idea that makes them less money and not more.
Are you sure about that?Foundational Principle #1 – Be willing to take risks, even if fortune doesn’t always favor the bold
Being safe is for tourists and for most casual games. This is the wrong game, wrong genre, wrong developer and wrong time to be safe. We will take chances with lots of aspects of this game. We are not afraid to take a stance on what we believe will make a great game even if it means angering (and losing) some potential customers. To quote one of my favorite movies, “This is a revolution dammit! We are going to have to offend somebody.”
To say this game’s design will be fraught with risks is an understatement. I know it would be very easy just to go out and use buzzwords like “sandbox” lots and lots in describing this game to attract players and investors. I could also go out and talk about how this game “Will revolutionize PvE!” and attract another group of players and investors (that whole mass market thing) but yet I choose to make an RvR-focused game that even if successful has no chance of threatening Dark Age of Camelot’s peak subs (250k), let alone something much larger like EQ1. What I want to do is take chances with this game that most, if not all, publishers wouldn’t want to take with it and that’s exactly what we are going to do.
From Camelot Unchained.0 -
PvE Solo - Skyrim
RP - Secondlife
PVP - League of Legends
This is a thing. I think one could make the argument that MMOs truly are the only games that are even made for PvE Group content, and so this should always be the priority when creating new content. The other niches are just add-ons that really can find their bliss elsewhere if they needed to.0 -
Axewaffle✭✭✭harnessedyeti9 wrote: »Moonchilde wrote: »Who has 200 million to spend on a game who's player base isn't reliable - its such a fickle market that players threaten to unsub at the drop of a hat. Your demands and behavior are part of this risk assessment. Unless the market culture changes, the level of risk on investing in that market will not change.
Zenimax Online Studios.
Apparently a fickle market is one that expects classes to have most of their skills working (something that should have been fixed BEFORE launch, yet still plagues us 2+ months after) repetitive endgame (potentially addressed for SOME players this patch, yet most remain unaffected, again 2 months later, some endgame content should have been in place at launch....), some semblance of ballance, humanity requires equality... if you plan on humans playing this game you need to not create 2 blatantly overpowered classes and ignore them while they run rampant for 2+ months...
Asking for the bare minimum from an MMo is apparently too much.4 -
TheGrandAlliance✭✭✭✭There is nothing wrong with MMORPGs: ONly game companies who fail to test their games before launch and release a beta.
ESO at launch is a beta. With 1.1.2 it is a beta: You cannot expect a beta to sell. End of Story. Greatest (most profitable) MMORPG of all time WOW is indeed<<<<<.Edited by TheGrandAlliance on 23 May 2014 04:28Indeed it is so...3 -
KingRebz✭✭✭Your sir kept it 100. I agree with what you are saying. Thats why mmos like RUNESCAPE have lasted til this day. They provide content for all types of mmo players. From the level grinders to the questers to the pvpers to the money makers..V14 Sorceror [Ebonheart]0 -
jdoe✭✭✭I think part of the problem, is that there has been an entire paradigm shift from what's considered the game. I come from the old MUD days, where if there was a level cap, it was never realistically reachable. So the climb itself was the game. Now, it's as if the majority of the content of the game to most people is just something you have to get through to hit VR10 (it's just an observation and I'm not suggesting that's wrong, if it's what you enjoy, that's all that matters). But, if that is how you play, how could there ever be enough content?
On the flipside, I'm off for vacation, so I've played pretty religiously these last few weeks (over 300 hours), and I'm not even half way through the second factions quest line, and I have yet to spend any real time doing anything other than PVE content (no role playing, no pvp, etc). Realistically, if they held on to their 6-week release schedule, they probably could keep adding content at such a rate that I rarely if ever run dry...
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WhimsyDragon✭✭✭Thank you Lexon, for bringing light to the subject of what everyone wants in a MMO and how easy it is to accomplish such.Edited by WhimsyDragon on 22 March 2018 03:582 -
Noobie✭✭MY only argument is ZoS actually needs to force their employees to play this game after work, and maybe they understand why their game is sucking atm. Especially after this horrendous patch.Edited by Noobie on 23 May 2014 04:322
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curlyqloub14_ESO✭✭✭✭Lol, again with the housing thing. Here's the OP's first thread on this topic http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100361/justice-system-and-housing-update#latest, where he was obviously hoping for a rally of support in regards to player housing, and instead the majority came back and basically said "meh, it's useless".
Now dear Lexon is taking another swing at it. Guess since he didn't get the response he wanted in the other thread, he thought he'd try again - maybe the later night crowd is different? Doesn't look that way, sorry man.Thank you Lexon, for bringing light to the subject of what everyone wants in a MMO and how easy it is to accomplish such. Please let us know when you've launched your own and we'll revisit this topic.
^^Edited by curlyqloub14_ESO on 23 May 2014 04:450 -
Moonchilde wrote: »Try SecondLife. More content than you can experience in 6 months, definitely.
Seriously, do you know how long it takes to generate content for a 3d world? To make enough original content to satisfy your appetite, the venture capital required to get that all designed and built and tested to your satisfaction would just not be available.
Who has 200 million to spend on a game who's player base isn't reliable - its such a fickle market that players threaten to unsub at the drop of a hat. Your demands and behavior are part of this risk assessment. Unless the market culture changes, the level of risk on investing in that market will not change.
My friend, WOW has made Billions of dollars. The profit is there, just not the investment. Trust me they can spend unlimited money, but they won't because they know they can still make money on the "Carrot on a Stick" Tactic.
This game has been in development for four years or more, imagine if they had triple the people and double the budget. Imagine the content they could have created. What your suggesting is that we the MMO community are not worth that investment, I disagree whole heartedly. If WOW can make billion using Carrot on a stick tactics, just imagine what I company could earn if they created a game people wanted to play constantly! It takes time and money. One thing these companies are a little short on. They are the ones that have an entitled complex, not the consumer.1 -
ciannait✭✭✭LexonLightbringer wrote: »Moonchilde wrote: »Try SecondLife. More content than you can experience in 6 months, definitely.
Seriously, do you know how long it takes to generate content for a 3d world? To make enough original content to satisfy your appetite, the venture capital required to get that all designed and built and tested to your satisfaction would just not be available.
Who has 200 million to spend on a game who's player base isn't reliable - its such a fickle market that players threaten to unsub at the drop of a hat. Your demands and behavior are part of this risk assessment. Unless the market culture changes, the level of risk on investing in that market will not change.
My friend, WOW has made Billions of dollars. The profit is there, just not the investment. Trust me they can spend unlimited money, but they won't because they know they can still make money on the "Carrot on a Stick" Tactic.
This game has been in development for four years or more, imagine if they had triple the people and double the budget. Imagine the content they could have created. What your suggesting is that we the MMO community are not worth that investment, I disagree whole heartedly. If WOW can make billion using Carrot on a stick tactics, just imagine what I company could earn if they created a game people wanted to play constantly! It takes time and money. One thing these companies are a little short on. They are the ones that have an entitled complex, not the consumer.
The thing about "triple the people and double the budget" is that it's still more than possible to mis-manage your way into a piece of crap game. Throwing more resources at a problem doesn't guarantee quality.3 -
The reality is those types of games will never be made because when you limit your audience like that, you limit sales. You'll never get company executives to sign off on an idea that makes them less money and not more.
Are you sure about that?Foundational Principle #1 – Be willing to take risks, even if fortune doesn’t always favor the bold
Being safe is for tourists and for most casual games. This is the wrong game, wrong genre, wrong developer and wrong time to be safe. We will take chances with lots of aspects of this game. We are not afraid to take a stance on what we believe will make a great game even if it means angering (and losing) some potential customers. To quote one of my favorite movies, “This is a revolution dammit! We are going to have to offend somebody.”
To say this game’s design will be fraught with risks is an understatement. I know it would be very easy just to go out and use buzzwords like “sandbox” lots and lots in describing this game to attract players and investors. I could also go out and talk about how this game “Will revolutionize PvE!” and attract another group of players and investors (that whole mass market thing) but yet I choose to make an RvR-focused game that even if successful has no chance of threatening Dark Age of Camelot’s peak subs (250k), let alone something much larger like EQ1. What I want to do is take chances with this game that most, if not all, publishers wouldn’t want to take with it and that’s exactly what we are going to do.
From Camelot Unchained.
Now that's a game that deserves an audience, if of course, that's not just some corporate lingo for attention. Even If it is, its the best I have seen in a long time, good for them!2 -
LexonLightbringer wrote: »Moonchilde wrote: »Try SecondLife. More content than you can experience in 6 months, definitely.
Seriously, do you know how long it takes to generate content for a 3d world? To make enough original content to satisfy your appetite, the venture capital required to get that all designed and built and tested to your satisfaction would just not be available.
Who has 200 million to spend on a game who's player base isn't reliable - its such a fickle market that players threaten to unsub at the drop of a hat. Your demands and behavior are part of this risk assessment. Unless the market culture changes, the level of risk on investing in that market will not change.
My friend, WOW has made Billions of dollars. The profit is there, just not the investment. Trust me they can spend unlimited money, but they won't because they know they can still make money on the "Carrot on a Stick" Tactic.
This game has been in development for four years or more, imagine if they had triple the people and double the budget. Imagine the content they could have created. What your suggesting is that we the MMO community are not worth that investment, I disagree whole heartedly. If WOW can make billion using Carrot on a stick tactics, just imagine what I company could earn if they created a game people wanted to play constantly! It takes time and money. One thing these companies are a little short on. They are the ones that have an entitled complex, not the consumer.
The thing about "triple the people and double the budget" is that it's still more than possible to mis-manage your way into a piece of crap game. Throwing more resources at a problem doesn't guarantee quality.
I agree with that, a lot of companies are wasteful!
1 -
curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »Lol, again with the housing thing. Here's the OP's first thread on this topic http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100361/justice-system-and-housing-update#latest, where he was obviously hoping for a rally of support in regards to player housing, and instead the majority came back and basically said "meh, it's useless".
Now dear Lexon is taking another swing at it. Guess since he didn't get the response he wanted in the other thread, he thought he'd try again - maybe the later night crowd is different? Doesn't look that way, sorry man.Thank you Lexon, for bringing light to the subject of what everyone wants in a MMO and how easy it is to accomplish such. Please let us know when you've launched your own and we'll revisit this topic.
^^
Thanks for including my other noteworthy discussion. Your suggestion that these two discussions are one in the same is misguided. This discussion is very broad in its scope encompassing a variety of interests. The other discussion is centralized and very specific. What is true is that this discussion could not have been written without the help of the previous discussions comment section.
I welcomed all feedback (agree or disagree / like or dislike.) in my previous discussion. As I welcome all feedback in this new discussion. Either way thanks for attaching my previous one, because that only reinforces this particular topic.
Edited by LexonLightbringer on 23 May 2014 04:590 -
Aeradon✭✭✭✭✭Moonchilde wrote: »Try SecondLife. More content than you can experience in 6 months, definitely.
Seriously, do you know how long it takes to generate content for a 3d world? To make enough original content to satisfy your appetite, the venture capital required to get that all designed and built and tested to your satisfaction would just not be available.
Who has 200 million to spend on a game who's player base isn't reliable - its such a fickle market that players threaten to unsub at the drop of a hat. Your demands and behavior are part of this risk assessment. Unless the market culture changes, the level of risk on investing in that market will not change.
@Moonchilde Hence statement was made by Forbes the moment they announced the $200 million investment excluding future budgets.People keep telling me they're gonna buy me an ale. They never do.
There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's culture. And the Elves.
Help make this compilation complete!
Compilation of Ideas and Suggestions0 -
Illydth✭OP: First, I appreciate a well written post. Your post is well written and (at least for your position) well thought out.
You have my appreciation, at least, for that.
That said, I think your point / position is entirely unreasonable...incredibly so. You want a company, with less than 3 months of player sub time, to dedicate the money for tens of hours of content a month for all four of the Online Game Genera player types?
Do you HONESTLY believe that there is enough money filtering into Zenemax's budget to develop even a SMALL PORTION of what you're talking about? Or are you seriously asking for content updates yearly instead of every couple months?
Are you REALLY suggesting that for this game to be viable 4 completely different sets of content need to be released for this game every time they patch content?
I don't run a multi-million dollar corporation (or even a multi-hundred thousand dollar game studio) but even *I* can see your request is utterly unreasonable in even the BEST of situations. NO MMO on the market at ANY point in it's life cycle has EVER released content in a PATCH like you're talking about. How the hell do you even GET 10s of hours of content for RP players anyway? What does that content even look like?
You want THAT kind of content update? Be prepared to pay $50 every time Zenemax wants to release an update.Edited by Illydth on 23 May 2014 05:310 -
Raeder✭✭✭OP... in my opinion, the problem is theme park MMOs. Not the genre itself, but the type of MMO you're making.
Developers need to stop thinking that they need to guide players from point a to point b. This is why people consume content.
The sandbox game is the future.
EVE Online has got to have the worst combat system of any MMO I've ever played. But boy does it have a ton of emergent play. CCP created a world and some general systems that allow it to work, but for the most part... they let players come up with their own stories, which is why the game has lasted so long, and remained profitable.
This is why, I never would have picked up this game if Star Citizen were out... and once EverQuest Next comes out I'll probably be playing that.2 -
ciannait✭✭✭OP: First, I appreciate a well written post. Your post is well written and (at least for your position) well thought out.
You have my appreciation, at least, for that.
That said, I think your point / position is entirely unreasonable...incredibly so. You want a company, with less than 3 months of player sub time, to dedicate the money for tens of hours of content a month for all four of the Online Game Genera player types?
Do you HONESTLY believe that there is enough money filtering into Zenemax's budget to develop even a SMALL PORTION of what you're talking about? Or are you seriously asking for content updates yearly instead of every couple months?
Are you REALLY suggesting that for this game to be viable 4 completely different sets of content need to be released for this game every time they patch content?
I don't run a multi-million dollar corporation (or even a multi-hundred thousand dollar game studio) but even *I* can see your request is utterly unreasonable in even the BEST of situations. NO MMO on the market at ANY point in it's life cycle has EVER released content in a PATCH like you're talking about.
You want THAT kind of content update? Be prepared to pay $50 every time Zenemax wants to release an update.
If it were a high-quality update that didn't set half the server on fire, I'd be willing to pay for it.0 -
OP: First, I appreciate a well written post. Your post is well written and (at least for your position) well thought out.
You have my appreciation, at least, for that.
That said, I think your point / position is entirely unreasonable...incredibly so. You want a company, with less than 3 months of player sub time, to dedicate the money for tens of hours of content a month for all four of the Online Game Genera player types?
Do you HONESTLY believe that there is enough money filtering into Zenemax's budget to develop even a SMALL PORTION of what you're talking about? Or are you seriously asking for content updates yearly instead of every couple months?
Are you REALLY suggesting that for this game to be viable 4 completely different sets of content need to be released for this game every time they patch content?
I don't run a multi-million dollar corporation (or even a multi-hundred thousand dollar game studio) but even *I* can see your request is utterly unreasonable in even the BEST of situations. NO MMO on the market at ANY point in it's life cycle has EVER released content in a PATCH like you're talking about. How the hell do you even GET 10s of hours of content for RP players anyway? What does that content even look like?
You want THAT kind of content update? Be prepared to pay $50 every time Zenemax wants to release an update.
Yes I am saying that, here's why, four genre groups make up this MMO. They promise everyone will be happy and that they are deserving of a subscription fee, prove it! Prove it by caring about the others, not isolating them. Prove it by doing the right thing for a customer base who pays to play.
I am sick of hearing that player's who get what they want won't reward developers. Gamer's are some of the most addictive, loyal, unselfish people I know. All they want is a game that caters to there imagination, the money or profit will follow!0 -
Let me be clear what I suggest is not good business in a capitalist economy. That's the whole point i am trying to make, in order to make a game that fulfills its promise, it needs to place its customers needs before the needs of that companies profit. Anything else is a hollow marketed promise of greed and corruption, who wants to pay for that?
The tried and true method does not work, we need a change, a new era!Edited by LexonLightbringer on 23 May 2014 05:472 -
Are you serious? OKAY OP let me break it down for ya...
1) Sales...c'mon fool
2) Money...see "1"
3) C'mon fool
4) okay seriously though...say that happened...you'd be on here complaining about not having a pc that could run it...if not you'd be on here complaining that you found a glitch...truth is.....see number 5...
5) growth...(DERP)...it's a human condition...which is better "everything "NOW"...or hey i was a part of that and built a legacy upon it...yeah things had a rough start (life much?) but now things are nice and polished and DANG I know things so well i can kill stuffz...truth be told...if you just have everthing right then (btw if they actually did what you suggest you would be looking at a 30 dollar a month sub fee b/c NOBODY else has done it) you (as a human that needs growth to keep entertained) would be bored within 8 months to a year if not sooner...fact is ..as much as we hate...we love it...change is good...all that...truth is if they delivered a "perfect mmo" then you would be playing a "crappy" mmo the next month...so that you could complain...I for one support zenimax online studios...not because they deliver..but because they can deliver a genre that I LOVE...and that I can see the potential for growth in it...
Drunken rant is now over...Edited by azerothheroes_ESO on 23 May 2014 06:102 -
azerothheroes_ESO wrote: »Are you serious? OKAY OP let me break it down for ya...
1) Sales...c'mon fool
2) Money...see "1"
3) C'mon fool
4) okay seriously though...say that happened...you'd be on here complaining about not having a pc that could run it...if not you'd be on here complaining that you found a glitch...truth is.....see number 5...
5) growth...(DERP)...it's a human condition...which is better "everything "NOW"...or hey i was a part of that and built a legacy upon it...yeah things had a rough star (life much?) but now things are nice and polished and DANG I know things so well i can kill stuffz...truth be told...if you just have everthing right then (btw if they actually did what you suggest you would be looking at a 30 dollar a month sub fee b/c NOBODY else has done it) you (as a human that needs growth to keep entertained) would be bored within 8 months to a year if not sooner...fact is ..as much as we hate...we love it...change is good...all that...truth is if they delivered a "perfect mmo" then you would be playing a "crappy" mmo the next month...so that you could complain...I for one support zenimax online studios...not because they deliver..but because they can deliver a genre that I LOVE...and that I can see the potential for growth in it...
Drunken rant is now over...
30 Dollars because nobody has done it = greed. Can't run the game with all the content? really? That would mean WOW crashed right? In two years you will have installed 50 gigabytes or more of this game, I bet you can still play it then. Your logic is the worst, but still appreciate your comment , so Thanks!Edited by LexonLightbringer on 23 May 2014 05:540 -
LexonLightbringer wrote: »OP: First, I appreciate a well written post. Your post is well written and (at least for your position) well thought out.
You have my appreciation, at least, for that.
That said, I think your point / position is entirely unreasonable...incredibly so. You want a company, with less than 3 months of player sub time, to dedicate the money for tens of hours of content a month for all four of the Online Game Genera player types?
Do you HONESTLY believe that there is enough money filtering into Zenemax's budget to develop even a SMALL PORTION of what you're talking about? Or are you seriously asking for content updates yearly instead of every couple months?
Are you REALLY suggesting that for this game to be viable 4 completely different sets of content need to be released for this game every time they patch content?
I don't run a multi-million dollar corporation (or even a multi-hundred thousand dollar game studio) but even *I* can see your request is utterly unreasonable in even the BEST of situations. NO MMO on the market at ANY point in it's life cycle has EVER released content in a PATCH like you're talking about. How the hell do you even GET 10s of hours of content for RP players anyway? What does that content even look like?
You want THAT kind of content update? Be prepared to pay $50 every time Zenemax wants to release an update.
Yes I am saying that, here's why, four genre groups make up this MMO. They promise everyone will be happy and that they are deserving of a subscription fee, prove it! Prove it by caring about the others, not isolating them. Prove it by doing the right thing for a customer base who pays to play.
I am sick of hearing that player's who get what they want won't reward developers. Gamer's are some of the most addictive, loyal, unselfish people I know. All they want is a game that caters to there imagination, the money or profit will follow!
LMAO what!? unselfish? ...dayum...what grade are you in? Yeah the forums are here for the unselfish...rofl...
okay though seriously...do you understand the value of a dollar? this is a company same as the one you go to get gas at...and at that they're newish to the genre...do you really expect a brand new fast food chain to get your order right every single time? if so..well ...go buy a helmet and marry a rich person...b/c otherwise life's gonna hurt...ppl often find themselves confused with real life/ fantasy when discussing video games b/c one gets used to the "in game" world versus the real world...OKAY listen...NOBODY is perfect...despite what your parents told you...NOBODY can give you a game where you just win...NOT even on the RL side of things...fact is...if you want to play this game.. A) pay to play it..B.) Don't whine when you've payed to play it about how it is...truth is that's your own dang money and you should've been prepared for the pro's and con's when you went into it...get over yourself...you're opinion isn't crap when compared to the multitudes..no matter what mommy and daddy told you when you were "growing up"...Okay though...if anyone ever does provide what you're asking ...i'll totally sign up and call myself a fool...but ...let's be real...the word polish does exist for a reason...because certain things...including multi-million dollar projects...need it.Edited by azerothheroes_ESO on 23 May 2014 06:010 -
LexonLightbringer wrote: »Maybe the MMO Genre should be discontinued. Replacing it with a genre called Co-Specific. Every post I have seen the last four years has someone saying that all MMO's take time to develop.
I recently created a Discussion detailing an interview conducted by IGN. In this interview Creative Director Paul Sage mentions Housing and the Justice System, the expected timelines for them to be incorporated into the game, and some other information about the Thief's Guild.
I received various amounts of opinions in regards to that interview. But one such opinion was found throughout, that MMO's take time and that we shouldn't expect all content to be delivered at launch. That if we got such content at launch we would consume it within 2 months and be bored.
Trust me I understand that logic, not because I agree with it, because that has become the norm in MMO genre Business.
What I don't understand is if we are able to consume all the content that an MMO has created at launch, good or bad, how do companies ever expect to retain players with any consistency. I am hopeful someday a company will develop and MMO that has so much content at launch that even if you tried to consume it all it would take 6 months or more. This imaginary company would benefit from this because it would provide them time too develop new content within that six months.
Obviously the original content would have to cater to every core (RP, PVP, PVE, ETC...).
But that reality is not upon us. What we have today is products that at launch can be consumed within a month or two. Sure we get updates to this content every month or two if you play a subscription game, but does that new content cater to everyone? Should it?
When I hear opinions that player housing should not even be included into this game, or opinions that its okay if it takes a year or two; I get frustrated. You have to understand that an MMO, a successful one, has to satisfy all of its customers with every Major Update. If an MMO chooses not too they leave some customers behind.
For example, Craglorn is for the PVE Grouping crowd that has consumed all of the PVE content. But what about the RP crowd, the pvp crowd, the pve solo crowd? Where's there content? Is it six months down the road? is it a year. Surely they have consumed all of the content that was designed for them, just like the PVE Grouping has.
A company can choose to do whatever it wants, But those choices have consequences. Some of those consequences are people leaving the game because they don't have anything to eat, they are starving.
This is why I think Co-Specific would work. Its not an MMO built around keeping people in the game even though that content doesn't exist for them. Its a game where its catered to a specific group of individuals. So for example a game that's created for just PVP. Maybe a game created just for RP. This genre would not have a little bit of everything, it would be very specific to the crowd.
I know I sound loopy, and in reality I don't want that kind of game. I mention it though to show how lopsided and MMO can be at delivering content for everyone that makes up an MMO.
If a company decides to make an MMO, then it should also decide that every Major Update should include something for every crowd. To suggest every crowd is happy in ESO after this Update is selfish and arrogant. Some people are starving right now, they will be starving tomorrow, and if ESO has anything to say about it some of them will have to starve for at least a year.
If you can't provide regular updates for everyone, don't expect a certain population to stick around. The people that leave this game because housing is a year out in development are justified, not entitled little whiner's!
I just can't stop...i'm sorry...it's the beer...but did you even read you own post even once? I mean it's obvious you're voting on the whole "you should cater to everyone cuz' like that's totally not fair" ...but c'mon...did you ever step back and actually think? have you ever actually made anything in your life? or sold anything? Let me ask you this...
you're selling your house which you paid 100K for...you really need to sell and you don't give 2 flying farts if it's a little less than asking price...one couple with a puppy offers you 95k for it...then one guy offers you the asking price...which do you go with? HERE's the dilemma...IF you take the 95k offer you're stupid...if you take the 100k offer..then you can no longer post to this thread b/c it rules against anything else to say..
3rd option...is you can't decide b/c you need someone else to tell you ...stop playing...go get a job and have to provide 100% for yourself...
...ps..yes i know i get resentful when i get drunk...but unless you can provide a valid argument against what i've said plz shut the heck up...0