ZOS Stance on Exploiting Game Bugs

dimensional · April 2016

My point is your emphasis isn't going to achieve anything for you, yet you seem to think it will
/facepalm

Pomaikai · April 2016

And you know this, how?

dimensional · April 2016

Come back to me when your demands get met and tell me how it worked out for you.

Lord_Wrath · April 2016

Demands wont be met, because they DONT CARE. You can bring up a million points that need addressed, but the minute you say a bad word on here they will be right on it like a fat kid on cake, on top of that they will still ignore the point.

I get dimensionals point, but its rather a waste of time to bash someone for wanting a difference to be made. Fight on Pomaikai.

dimensional · April 2016

Not bashing them, I saw his post as really brash and rude so I was admonishing him for it. Addressing the community mods here with that kind of tone serves no one and just makes you look like a petulant brat.

rfennell_ESO · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

Come back to me when your demands get met and tell me how it worked out for you.

It worked in Wow.

Eventually Blizzard caved in put in their warden system and started ban waves.

Basically they would accumulate exploit data and then every 3 months a ban wave and a lot of the "I'm a pro pvper, btw git gud you loser" types started disappearing.

dimensional · April 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Come back to me when your demands get met and tell me how it worked out for you.

It worked in Wow.

Eventually Blizzard caved in put in their warden system and started ban waves.

Basically they would accumulate exploit data and then every 3 months a ban wave and a lot of the "I'm a pro pvper, btw git gud you loser" types started disappearing.

I sure wish ZOS has Blizzard's resources.

rfennell_ESO · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Come back to me when your demands get met and tell me how it worked out for you.

It worked in Wow.

Eventually Blizzard caved in put in their warden system and started ban waves.

Basically they would accumulate exploit data and then every 3 months a ban wave and a lot of the "I'm a pro pvper, btw git gud you loser" types started disappearing.

I sure wish ZOS has Blizzard's resources.

They have at least equal or greater resources and don't have to answer to stock holders... Zenimax is a big company, it might be the top game company now.

If people complain enough and bring up the constant issue with exploits enough... they will have to take action.

dimensional · April 2016

I said ZOS not Zenimax, even though they are owned by a big company that doesn't mean said company allocates huge resources to this specific dev team.

rfennell_ESO · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

I said ZOS not Zenimax, even though they are owned by a big company that doesn't mean said company allocates huge resources to this specific dev team.

You have no idea (and neither do I) as to the actual resources they have.

But Zenimax has resources and likely will have another cash cow coming in may with Doom.

Regardless of all that, the elder scrolls is a big thing in gaming and if things get to a point in this game where it's become synonymous with cheating and little to no dev reaction to it.. it hurts the brand.

Back in the day with WOW if was believed that Blizzard was too successful and too big to ever get them to make the changes, eventually they did and they still run ban waves. Players complained though and eventually Blizz got wise and put in their warden system.

dimensional · April 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

I said ZOS not Zenimax, even though they are owned by a big company that doesn't mean said company allocates huge resources to this specific dev team.

You have no idea (and neither do I) as to the actual resources they have.

Actually we do have a good idea at least on what they allocate their resources towards. There's a reason we have way less community engagement and community posts on the main website today, compared to a year ago. The reason is resource management (less employees to do the job).

Inarre · April 2016

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hi guys, it's OK to discuss rules enforcement in general, but please do not bring up specific examples. This includes discussing your own warnings, suspensions, bans, et cetera. As covered in the forum rules, discussing disciplinary actions like this on the forums is not acceptable. Some posts have been removed. We have a commitment to keeping disciplinary acts private, and will not discuss actions taken on any account. This creates issues if others are discussing them. We are unable to clarify anything, or confirm or deny. These topics also tend to attract other problems, which is a further reason we do not allow them.

We'll also note that we do not allow the specifics of exploits to be discussed on the forums, and we want to thank everyone in this thread for not doing so.

Well.... Acknowledged and agreed, but Zos has in the recent past discussed disciplinary actions taken on accounts publicly on the forums. So it is understandable, in my honest opinion, why the general public may be confused about how much is allowed to be discussed.

Krist · April 2016

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Hi @ZOS_AlanG .
Can a member of your team release a general statement on the outcome of this investigation please?

I'd like to know if I can use future exploits without worry of a ban, you see.

Thanks

They have an official statement, you aren't suppose to do it. If you feel as others feel that they are not doing their job, then why are you worrying if you will be banned or not?
To be honest, I KNOW people have been banned, so if you actually believe exploiters are just getting away freely with everything, go for it....then you will be wondering why YOU are the only one banned.

Yes, people get away with things at times. It happens on many different MMOs. I know of two that use cheats or something because they make you lag when they are near you in PvP. I have not seen them in some time though, I am assuming they may have been banned or just moved on. It is not my business once I/we reported them.

Turelus · April 2016

Take the personal arguments and debates to PM if they're not going to help the topic please.

Thanks for the stop in @ZOS_AlanG I didn't want this thread to become too much about what was revealed today or other ongoing exploits however I wanted to try and show ZOS (and maybe some in the community) just how bad this issue is becoming.

I really can't stress enough how I have seen players go from "I shouldn't exploit I might lose my account" to "LoL ZOS ban someone..." over the last two years. I understand there are exploits which are not as easy to enforce like skill bugs etc.

However issues like the ones revealed today are VERY clear who is and isn't making excessive use of them, and those who did know full well they're breaking the rules and fairness of the game.

Lightninvash · April 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

@ZOS_AlanG

Except you MUST finally make a stand on what your policy towards cheating actually is, and then you MUST stick to it!

The ambiguity MUST stop, and it must stop NOW!

The phrase "Can result in disciplinary action." is no longer acceptable from management.

see some things I can understand them not punishing people about. knowing there is an exploit and doing x to reproduce the exploit to your gain is and should be a banable offense. On the other hand something happens say when we could spam skils like mutagen without the global cooldown. Now I had no idea why or what was going on. TBH I thought it was a lag spike while I was mid healing since for me the beams never got sent out. so when I hit it again it insta casted over and over when I ran out of magicka I was like wtf happened. situations like this are understandable

rfennell_ESO · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

I said ZOS not Zenimax, even though they are owned by a big company that doesn't mean said company allocates huge resources to this specific dev team.

You have no idea (and neither do I) as to the actual resources they have.

Actually we do have a good idea at least on what they allocate their resources towards. There's a reason we have way less community engagement and community posts on the main website today, compared to a year ago. The reason is resource management (less employees to do the job).

A good idea is a guess.

Anyways, the funny thing about Eso is that it's problems are actually less at this point than wow had for a long time.

Wow had a serious botting problem (look up WOW glider) and a lot of gold selling and pvp exploits galore.

I don't think complaining about these things fall entirely on deaf ears. I know for a fact that the devs do listen to the players, and do make changes based on feedback. This is more than Blizzard ever did...

Turelus · April 2016

Krist wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Hi @ZOS_AlanG .
Can a member of your team release a general statement on the outcome of this investigation please?

I'd like to know if I can use future exploits without worry of a ban, you see.

Thanks

They have an official statement, you aren't suppose to do it. If you feel as others feel that they are not doing their job, then why are you worrying if you will be banned or not?
To be honest, I KNOW people have been banned, so if you actually believe exploiters are just getting away freely with everything, go for it....then you will be wondering why YOU are the only one banned.

Yes, people get away with things at times. It happens on many different MMOs. I know of two that use cheats or something because they make you lag when they are near you in PvP. I have not seen them in some time though, I am assuming they may have been banned or just moved on. It is not my business once I/we reported them.

This is the problem though. When large public cases such as this come up with other games they make a point to say that actions were taken. Or warn people that if they use an exploit before it's fixed they will have action taken against them.

ZOS however does the pretend there is nothing wrong and no one ever commits a crime way of doing things. They don't have to release the names of accounts sanctioned or what the exact details of the exploit are but there have been so many like todays now where they have said nothing and everyone just assume you abuse and get away fine.

Also to counter your comments people are banned. During a farming/glitch exploit in the past I knew a player teaching other how to do it, even reporting others for doing it, I knew several players who abused it to the extreme (we're talking hundreds of wax) and none of them even heard a peep from ZOS.

babylon · April 2016

The exploit must've been going on for quite some time...bet some people made some serious gold with it. How about at least going into their banks and removing all their gold...and when player housing comes in, you can confiscate their house too, prepare those kiddies for the real world and actual consequences

imenace · April 2016

welp looks like they wont do *** all about it, regret not doing it.

Buffler · April 2016

imenace wrote: »

welp looks like they wont do *** all about it, regret not doing it.

How do you know....servers are coming down on a friday night to fix it...id say they are taking it very serious

Turelus · April 2016

Buffler wrote: »

imenace wrote: »

welp looks like they wont do *** all about it, regret not doing it.

How do you know....servers are coming down on a friday night to fix it...id say they are taking it very serious

Agreed. This is a pretty big step for ZOS and I am proud we went from public post to hotfix in under 24 hours (no sarcasm here, honestly happy).

I myself will be keeping an eye on what they say going forwards though. As others have stated this has been going on longer than it making a public forums. There must be those who abused it a lot, I really do hope ZOS strip them of rewards and hand out some form of temp ban if this is their first offence.

Glamdring · April 2016

Well ZOS, i was about to buy my banker assistant when i saw the server comming down. You guys lost alot of Money by fixing this exploit.

Buffler · April 2016

Glamdring wrote: »

Well ZOS, i was about to buy my banker assistant when i saw the server comming down. You guys lost alot of Money by fixing this exploit.

Lol

Abra · April 2016

server is down because of few people who have exploited this bug. They collected hundred of gold materials and made a lot of money from it , but it is the casual player who is suffering for it at prime time on a Friday night and is prevented to play the game. I hope they got permanently banned and all money and mats removed from their account.

Eleusian · April 2016

I was curios and went by one of my crafting surveys in Wrothgar. There was a crowd of people there running from a Crown store banker to the survey site. I heard mention of using the banker somehow with the writ to respawning the nodes. I'm really tired of these happening and no one ever gets banned , hopefully it will crash the legendary material market for awhile making doing this less profitable.

kevlarto_ESO · April 2016

Glad to see an exploit fixed, I am always amazed at the lengths players will go to when it comes to cheating, now if we could get ZOS to put as much attention on cheaters in other parts of the game.

Sunburnt_Penguin · April 2016

Krist wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Hi @ZOS_AlanG .
Can a member of your team release a general statement on the outcome of this investigation please?

I'd like to know if I can use future exploits without worry of a ban, you see.

Thanks

They have an official statement, you aren't suppose to do it. If you feel as others feel that they are not doing their job, then why are you worrying if you will be banned or not?
To be honest, I KNOW people have been banned, so if you actually believe exploiters are just getting away freely with everything, go for it....then you will be wondering why YOU are the only one banned.

Yes, people get away with things at times. It happens on many different MMOs. I know of two that use cheats or something because they make you lag when they are near you in PvP. I have not seen them in some time though, I am assuming they may have been banned or just moved on. It is not my business once I/we reported them.

There's two types of exploits here with separate levels of severity:
1) finding loopholes in coding/processes
2) manipulating gameplay through 3rd party soft/hardware

What you described is the latter and is obviously completely different to the former, to which this discussion is about.

What's the point in telling people not to do the former because "it's against TOS" and then when you find out they've done it, you either:
A. Don't reprimand them or
B. Reprimand then behind closed doors

All either option does is fuel the philosophy of "it being okay to exploit" and promotes further exploitation. Obviously they don't need to come out and say the names of who got banned, simply "yes, we are aware of the exploit and as per our TOS we have dealt with the offenders".

That's sufficient and should act as a deterrent going forward.

ZOS_AlanG · April 2016

Several additional posts were removed from this thread. If one feels this thread is problematic, please report it. While it's generally fine to constructively question the purpose of a discussion, calling for moderation action tends to cause more problems than it solves. Additionally, if your goal is moderator action, a report is the more effective way to do this.

As a rule of thumb, if a thread devolves into a debate about the thread itself, it's gone off track. Hopefully this recent pruning will get it back on topic.

Docmandu · April 2016

FWIW: Gina's response: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2930358/#Comment_2930358

Sunburnt_Penguin · April 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

FWIW: Gina's response: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2930358/#Comment_2930358

firefire