kylewwefan wrote: »@mikemacon I put the daedric tomb back on. You probably mentioned it, but it wasn’t clicking in my head you get like an extra %6 Crit from casting that. It brought me from %57 to %63 Crit. And it like stuns and immobilized stuff. Pretty good skill. I think Xynode May have done some research before putting it out. Lol
WrathOfInnos wrote: »That build worked reasonably well in 2017, and died with the release of dragon bones.
starkerealm wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »That build worked reasonably well in 2017, and died with the release of dragon bones.
I don't know if you remember, but Dragon Bones predated the release of Summerset. No one was using UI before Jewelry crafting was added because the jewely was robust, and there was no point.
So, you're literally saying, "the build was viable before it could be used, and then died three months before it became an option."
I'll grant you, getting a UI lightning staff is a pain in the ***. And the irony is, a lot of people, myself included, deconned them before Summerset came along, because it was a trash drop for a trash set. Hell, I think Xy's said he deconned the UI lightning staff before we tested Summerset.
As it is now, it does what it's supposed to do. If I remember correctly, the previous version of the build called for Spider Cultist and Netch, which, I mean, hey if you want to run that, it's still an option that's open to you. I'm happy to see people finding ways to improve player options in this game. Saying, "no, there's only one thing, and it's BiS," is a very good way to get players to tune out. Now, having said that, yes, I want to see people running viable builds, and Xy's do deliver that. I've run with a lot of people running his builds in the last year, and on the whole, yes, his builds work very well.
kylewwefan wrote: »Don’t remember exactly. Too much time has passed.
Masel used it on a DK heavy attack build at one time I think. It would probably still work really well for them.
That was way before jewelry crafting was a thing. Proc sets may have still been able to Crit then as well.
T3hasiangod wrote: »I may just be a sheepie toxic elitist meta lover but I guarantee almost any combination of Acuity/MS + BSW/Julianos/Crafty Alfiq/Spell Strat will beat that build with the same rotation.
I can (mathematically) confirm that running something like Juli + MS + Slimecraw will be better than UI.
Personally, if someone were to say to me "Hey, I wanted to play a magsorc with a simple rotation that will let me do vet trial ready DPS and let me farm Maelstrom Arena. What sets do you recommend running?", I'd point them towards something like Necro + MS/Acuity/Juli with 2-piece Ilambris. It's easier to get, cheaper to buy (in fact, you can buy all the pieces except for your monster helm), and better for DPS than the UI and IA combo. Quick, simple, and no need for expensive and needless waste of transmute crystals.
kylewwefan wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I may just be a sheepie toxic elitist meta lover but I guarantee almost any combination of Acuity/MS + BSW/Julianos/Crafty Alfiq/Spell Strat will beat that build with the same rotation.
I can (mathematically) confirm that running something like Juli + MS + Slimecraw will be better than UI.
Personally, if someone were to say to me "Hey, I wanted to play a magsorc with a simple rotation that will let me do vet trial ready DPS and let me farm Maelstrom Arena. What sets do you recommend running?", I'd point them towards something like Necro + MS/Acuity/Juli with 2-piece Ilambris. It's easier to get, cheaper to buy (in fact, you can buy all the pieces except for your monster helm), and better for DPS than the UI and IA combo. Quick, simple, and no need for expensive and needless waste of transmute crystals.
A little update. I accepted the challenge and put it to the test. But I screwed up a little. Will work some more on this later.
So ya know, I really detest beating on a dummy, but curiosity has me.
Mother Sorrow/Julianos vs Undaunted Infaltrator/ Infallible Aether
I did 3 x 3 mil test each and six mil. I forgot about using slimecraw and kept Grothdar on for both. That could have changed things. Also, the Mother Sorrow jewelry I bought is all arcane. Changing it to Infused or bloodthirsty or something might be better? I dont know?
I used Destro Ult. Should I use the atronach Ult? I’m also not sure? It does last a long time.
I’ve got no easy way to present this. Console thing and not the greatest with YouTube things.
My results
Easy Sorc (that’s Modified) : 36k DPS
The Asian God Suggestion (that I screwed up) 32k DPS.
The Conclusion
They are quite close. Mother Sorrow/ Julianos will probably scale better in group content, where as I know from other testing Easy Sorc stayed much the same. Could be even better using fire staves rather than lightning staves.
The rotation would have to change a bit because heavy attack fire staves rotation is really not a thing.
In Retrospect
Wow. Has the game really changed that much? Am I a better player now then when I started? I clearly remember struggling to hit 25k with a pet Sorc so I could join in vet trials and stuff awhile back. 30k is much easier to achieve...I must be a little better than I was. Have to be.
But not that much better.
Xynode shows hitting 42k and here I am at 36k. 6k DPS behind still. Probably because I’m bad. Maybe it’s lag? Maybe it’s....who freaking cares at this point, that’s enough to get into a vet team and not be carried.
No. Let’s not stop here just because. I’m gonna go back later and dig out a slimecraw and try again. Also, I made up a Julianos Lightning Staff for this comparison. Should I be using a Mother Sorrow Lightning Staff? Would you go infused or precise? Would it make a difference even?
Maybe I should just give it a rest. My damage is surprisingly really close. It’s probably the little things making the big difference now.
T3hasiangod wrote: »kylewwefan wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I may just be a sheepie toxic elitist meta lover but I guarantee almost any combination of Acuity/MS + BSW/Julianos/Crafty Alfiq/Spell Strat will beat that build with the same rotation.
I can (mathematically) confirm that running something like Juli + MS + Slimecraw will be better than UI.
Personally, if someone were to say to me "Hey, I wanted to play a magsorc with a simple rotation that will let me do vet trial ready DPS and let me farm Maelstrom Arena. What sets do you recommend running?", I'd point them towards something like Necro + MS/Acuity/Juli with 2-piece Ilambris. It's easier to get, cheaper to buy (in fact, you can buy all the pieces except for your monster helm), and better for DPS than the UI and IA combo. Quick, simple, and no need for expensive and needless waste of transmute crystals.
A little update. I accepted the challenge and put it to the test. But I screwed up a little. Will work some more on this later.
So ya know, I really detest beating on a dummy, but curiosity has me.
Mother Sorrow/Julianos vs Undaunted Infaltrator/ Infallible Aether
I did 3 x 3 mil test each and six mil. I forgot about using slimecraw and kept Grothdar on for both. That could have changed things. Also, the Mother Sorrow jewelry I bought is all arcane. Changing it to Infused or bloodthirsty or something might be better? I dont know?
I used Destro Ult. Should I use the atronach Ult? I’m also not sure? It does last a long time.
I’ve got no easy way to present this. Console thing and not the greatest with YouTube things.
My results
Easy Sorc (that’s Modified) : 36k DPS
The Asian God Suggestion (that I screwed up) 32k DPS.
The Conclusion
They are quite close. Mother Sorrow/ Julianos will probably scale better in group content, where as I know from other testing Easy Sorc stayed much the same. Could be even better using fire staves rather than lightning staves.
The rotation would have to change a bit because heavy attack fire staves rotation is really not a thing.
In Retrospect
Wow. Has the game really changed that much? Am I a better player now then when I started? I clearly remember struggling to hit 25k with a pet Sorc so I could join in vet trials and stuff awhile back. 30k is much easier to achieve...I must be a little better than I was. Have to be.
But not that much better.
Xynode shows hitting 42k and here I am at 36k. 6k DPS behind still. Probably because I’m bad. Maybe it’s lag? Maybe it’s....who freaking cares at this point, that’s enough to get into a vet team and not be carried.
No. Let’s not stop here just because. I’m gonna go back later and dig out a slimecraw and try again. Also, I made up a Julianos Lightning Staff for this comparison. Should I be using a Mother Sorrow Lightning Staff? Would you go infused or precise? Would it make a difference even?
Maybe I should just give it a rest. My damage is surprisingly really close. It’s probably the little things making the big difference now.
You can't compare those two directly on 3m or 6m dummies, due to the fact that IA gives out Minor Vulnerability. This means you need to adjust the Easy Sorc parse down to account for Minor Vulnerability uptime.
A better comparison would be to take builds on the new 21m raid dummy on the PTS, since this normalizes all buffs and debuffs.
Xynode's Easy Sorc (directly pulled rotation, gear, and CP from his website)
My WIP HA Sorc Build
As you can see, the WIP HA Sorc Build (it's a WIP because I'm still playing around with CP and set combos) pulls better DPS and the gear is easier to obtain. You can easily add a shield to your back bar by replacing Bound Aegis with Hardened Ward, and if you want to run something like Surge and Ward, you can just drop the Familiar and slot your Ward and Surge.
The Easy Sorc build is awesome. It's fun to play and it taught me about rotation and how things work in a simple, relaxed way. I still use it now and I was able to beat every vet dungeon and I'm into vet raids now. Great sustain and survivability and really fun to play.
T3hasiangod wrote: »kylewwefan wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I may just be a sheepie toxic elitist meta lover but I guarantee almost any combination of Acuity/MS + BSW/Julianos/Crafty Alfiq/Spell Strat will beat that build with the same rotation.
I can (mathematically) confirm that running something like Juli + MS + Slimecraw will be better than UI.
Personally, if someone were to say to me "Hey, I wanted to play a magsorc with a simple rotation that will let me do vet trial ready DPS and let me farm Maelstrom Arena. What sets do you recommend running?", I'd point them towards something like Necro + MS/Acuity/Juli with 2-piece Ilambris. It's easier to get, cheaper to buy (in fact, you can buy all the pieces except for your monster helm), and better for DPS than the UI and IA combo. Quick, simple, and no need for expensive and needless waste of transmute crystals.
A little update. I accepted the challenge and put it to the test. But I screwed up a little. Will work some more on this later.
So ya know, I really detest beating on a dummy, but curiosity has me.
Mother Sorrow/Julianos vs Undaunted Infaltrator/ Infallible Aether
I did 3 x 3 mil test each and six mil. I forgot about using slimecraw and kept Grothdar on for both. That could have changed things. Also, the Mother Sorrow jewelry I bought is all arcane. Changing it to Infused or bloodthirsty or something might be better? I dont know?
I used Destro Ult. Should I use the atronach Ult? I’m also not sure? It does last a long time.
I’ve got no easy way to present this. Console thing and not the greatest with YouTube things.
My results
Easy Sorc (that’s Modified) : 36k DPS
The Asian God Suggestion (that I screwed up) 32k DPS.
The Conclusion
They are quite close. Mother Sorrow/ Julianos will probably scale better in group content, where as I know from other testing Easy Sorc stayed much the same. Could be even better using fire staves rather than lightning staves.
The rotation would have to change a bit because heavy attack fire staves rotation is really not a thing.
In Retrospect
Wow. Has the game really changed that much? Am I a better player now then when I started? I clearly remember struggling to hit 25k with a pet Sorc so I could join in vet trials and stuff awhile back. 30k is much easier to achieve...I must be a little better than I was. Have to be.
But not that much better.
Xynode shows hitting 42k and here I am at 36k. 6k DPS behind still. Probably because I’m bad. Maybe it’s lag? Maybe it’s....who freaking cares at this point, that’s enough to get into a vet team and not be carried.
No. Let’s not stop here just because. I’m gonna go back later and dig out a slimecraw and try again. Also, I made up a Julianos Lightning Staff for this comparison. Should I be using a Mother Sorrow Lightning Staff? Would you go infused or precise? Would it make a difference even?
Maybe I should just give it a rest. My damage is surprisingly really close. It’s probably the little things making the big difference now.
You can't compare those two directly on 3m or 6m dummies, due to the fact that IA gives out Minor Vulnerability. This means you need to adjust the Easy Sorc parse down to account for Minor Vulnerability uptime.
A better comparison would be to take builds on the new 21m raid dummy on the PTS, since this normalizes all buffs and debuffs.
Xynode's Easy Sorc (directly pulled rotation, gear, and CP from his website)
My WIP HA Sorc Build
As you can see, the WIP HA Sorc Build (it's a WIP because I'm still playing around with CP and set combos) pulls better DPS and the gear is easier to obtain. You can easily add a shield to your back bar by replacing Bound Aegis with Hardened Ward, and if you want to run something like Surge and Ward, you can just drop the Familiar and slot your Ward and Surge.
Really? 2k dps difference? Let it go mate, just let it go. you do you and let others do what they do, simples. Masel sort of hits it on the head and yea...../sigh
kylewwefan wrote: »@T3hasiangod
Thanks for taking the time to compare. Uhm, part of what I liked about it is it’s not a pet build. But you know, sure some people like their pets and I have pulled them out from time to time.
It looked like you skipped the Maelstrom staff on your WIP btw. So you could maybe be a little more better.
I take it wip is (Work in Progress?)
I did try and go back and try Julianos and BSW, and scathing Mage and Netch and elegant and IA and Moondancer and Mother Sorrow, in a few various combinations.
You might not believe this, but I pretty much suck with all of them. I couldn’t get back over 25k DPS. I probably messed something up or maybe it’s the jewelry traits no bloodthirsty or infused on the others?
I consider myself as part of the higher end of the slightly below average when it comes to DPS.
I’m just sticking with Easy Sorc til something better comes out. Btw, I had a chance to do a big group test last night and got up to 42k.
Also why charged on staves in instead of Infused just out of curiostity.
Also why charged on staves in instead of Infused just out of curiostity.
kylewwefan wrote: »I consider myself as part of the higher end of the slightly below average when it comes to DPS.
T3hasiangod wrote: »I purposely do not use a vMA staff for my HA sorc builds.
starkerealm wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I purposely do not use a vMA staff for my HA sorc builds.
Then you're not in a position to test the Easy Sorc or make an evaluation on it.
Get in there, get a vMA staff, and then come back and tell us what you found.
I had a few off-meta builds that used outside the box thinking at some point too. It is such a hassle dealing with all the people saying things like: "you should use this" or "look at this guy, not even optimised", that I simply stopped doing it.
I've been in build creation for around 3 1/2 years now I think, and I noticed a trend that i see as very negative within the community, and that is that they have become very narrow-minded in terms of optimisation and damage output, which is actually hindering theorycrafting itself by ditching options simply because "this option is definitely better, I know that without trying". Also, some of the content creators out there seem to have a very competitive mindset, while collaborative thinking would be much better for the community.
Funny thing is though, that exactly this outside the box thinking that is criticised widely generates new meta options in many ways. Look at bow/bow vAS for example, it was created by trying something that wouldve been laughed about before simply. Same goes for the DoT spammable thing, I started it a while ago and up to elsweyr, it was some sort of meta for classes that lacked an actual spammable.
The community and other content creators should be happy that there is a noticable number of creators out there that try to help community members and get rid of this "he doesnt do meta, let's make fun of him" mentality. Have you even thought about the fact that there might be players out there that are actually physically impaired and unable to perform a light attack rotation reliably or just in pain? With builds like this, they can dish out enough dps to finish all veteran content.
T3hasiangod wrote: »
You aren't getting the point. The higher DPS is just one aspect of the story here. In fact, for both builds, you would not get onto any progression team in the guilds I'm a part of. These are teams that are doing vHoF, vMaw HM, vCR + 1 and above, vSS, etc.
That is the issue many people have with Easy Sorc. The fact that it's basically a dead end build, with no upward mobility. The sets are not useful in endgame content, and you're devoting more time and energy than is necessary for arguably inferior results.
T3hasiangod wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »I purposely do not use a vMA staff for my HA sorc builds.
Then you're not in a position to test the Easy Sorc or make an evaluation on it.
Get in there, get a vMA staff, and then come back and tell us what you found.
...
Putting a vMA staff on my HA sorc build would end up making my build stronger. There'd be no point in adding in a vMA staff and retesting because the results will still be the same.
I had a few off-meta builds that used outside the box thinking at some point too. It is such a hassle dealing with all the people saying things like: "you should use this" or "look at this guy, not even optimised", that I simply stopped doing it.
I've been in build creation for around 3 1/2 years now I think, and I noticed a trend that i see as very negative within the community, and that is that they have become very narrow-minded in terms of optimisation and damage output, which is actually hindering theorycrafting itself by ditching options simply because "this option is definitely better, I know that without trying". Also, some of the content creators out there seem to have a very competitive mindset, while collaborative thinking would be much better for the community.
Funny thing is though, that exactly this outside the box thinking that is criticised widely generates new meta options in many ways. Look at bow/bow vAS for example, it was created by trying something that wouldve been laughed about before simply. Same goes for the DoT spammable thing, I started it a while ago and up to elsweyr, it was some sort of meta for classes that lacked an actual spammable.
The community and other content creators should be happy that there is a noticable number of creators out there that try to help community members and get rid of this "he doesnt do meta, let's make fun of him" mentality. Have you even thought about the fact that there might be players out there that are actually physically impaired and unable to perform a light attack rotation reliably or just in pain? With builds like this, they can dish out enough dps to finish all veteran content.
You should check out his youtube channel, it would have spared you a wall of text - except you are trolling?starkerealm wrote: »Okay, so this may be remedial information for you, but as someone who primarily off-tanks, this may be new information for you:
The whole point of his build is to utilize easy to get gear. You can make his build with 160 CP, vma is usually recommended 300 CP +. Which gear do you recommend until you get a vma staff btw, bare-handed on the back bar?starkerealm wrote: »Adding vMA weapons significantly improves their effectiveness.
There is no conflict. Yes, the DPS numbers would be different. But the RESULT, the CONCLUSION, of his test his, that his build is stronger. This conclusion wouldn't change with a vma staff, his build would still be stronger, because it would do even more DPS. So why waste time and pots on such a test, especially when the whole point of the build is to utilize only overland/craft gear?? The build is already doing more dps without a vma staff, so the result of his build doing more dps than the other build would only emphasize his point. If you still think this is a conflicting statement, you should read the whole argument again.starkerealm wrote: »At this point, we're left with conflicting statements, "there's no point because the results would be the same," and "it would make my build stronger."