Official Feedback Thread for Crafting Node Scaling

Dagonthir · February 2016

helediron wrote: »

It is still easier to learn the crafts to vr16 and assign the points than leveling a maxed crafter from low levels to vr15. Of the two choices: bind nodes to character level or the current, bind to points assigned, i prefer the current one. This option allows access to all mats at all professions at about vr1 level.

Fair enough, I see your point. So in that case, how would you feel if ZOS added additional logic to scaling nodes so that it scaled to either your current level or your you skill passive, whichever is higher? That seems like it would suit both our needs.

This whole scaling thing is just unprecedented - prior to Orsinium, all of your characters could harvest any level nodes (since node levels were area based) at any level. Now, they're changing the rules and screwing over people who did crafting on multiple alts (I really don't believe that was the actual intent - I think it was just an inadvertent side effect of figuring out how to scale players to zone levels). If they had scaled from the beginning, it would have been fine, and I would certainly have made different choices.

Casdha wrote: »

I'll just say go to my post on this thread for my perspective on the arguments in this thread. See the shoe on the other foot, if you will.

I've been reading your posts in this thread and another crafting thread, and I just simply don't agree that harvesting resource nodes is the same as skills. Asking to be able to harvest reasonable level nodes is not the same as asking for skills earned on one character to be available on another character. I'm not asking to be able to craft as if my crafting skill was up on all characters - I'm just asking to be able to harvest, which is different. And it's different because we've always been able to harvest all nodes on all characters up until Orsinium, and they've changed the rules on that. It's just not cool.

helediron · February 2016

Dagonthir wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

It is still easier to learn the crafts to vr16 and assign the points than leveling a maxed crafter from low levels to vr15. Of the two choices: bind nodes to character level or the current, bind to points assigned, i prefer the current one. This option allows access to all mats at all professions at about vr1 level.

Fair enough, I see your point. So in that case, how would you feel if ZOS added additional logic to scaling nodes so that it scaled to either your current level or your you skill passive, whichever is higher? That seems like it would suit both our needs.
...skip...

I think you have found a perfect solution.

Casdha · February 2016

All I can say is that learning a craft is a one time cost. Being able to use the craft learned should come at a cost. It is no different than lets say Heavy Weapons. I can get that skill line maxed out at 50 and never have to do it again on that character but If I want to use Wrecking Blow I have to level that up and take the morph. Once I learn it that skill never goes away either but if I want to continue to use it I have to spend two skill points to be able to do so. The more skill paths I choose the less I'll be able to choose from each path.

Craft node scaling just offers a higher cost on the path someone chooses to take. The only reason folks have a problem with this is the skill point cost. If you want to be able to have enough skill point to make a fighter that you can swap out 4 different weapon lines or 3 different armor types for different situations without doing a respec, then your character chose a fighting path more than a crafting path.

IMHO there should be a benefit for choosing to dump a 100 skill points into one path and that is what node scaling does for crafting. A person doesn't even have to do that, 40 points on one character will let you gather any node you want, it just means you won't be able to take every single Class, Weapon, Armor, World, Undaunted, Alliance, Werewolf/Vampire and Race skill available.

I paid for mine by not taking Werewolf, Alliance or Undaunted on my crafting/gathering/solo character, If I want to do those things I have to play with a different one. I have a VR4 NB that can only pick up Iron and Maple and that doesn't bother me, it allows me to not be tempted to swipe the nodes from friends when I play with them. When I'm playing with friends, the last thing I want to do is run around gathering nodes.

helediron · February 2016

The change that all nodes in Wrothgar and Hews Bane drop vr15 mats is very good. Farming feels fun again. We also got rid of the area degeneration effect that plagued Wrothgar and made actual droprates much smaller than intended. We still have the 10* mats for vr16 but by stopping to force feed lower tier mats, it overall does not feel so oppressive as earlier Wrothgar system.

I think the gear writs at highest 10/10 tier should now use all vr15 mats, and not vr9. That would reflect the increased yield. I still would keep the amount low because of vr16 mats requirement. We have two significant material sinks compared to one in Craglorn.

You HAVE to fix the bug in crafting tables, where the table changes from vr15 to vr16 all by itself. My granddaughter happened to watch my playing when the table ninjacrafted me a vr16 writ item. She said i was using Not Appropriate Language. Save our elder generations, please fix the crafting tables. Also, when i select a level on blacksmith anvil, the clothing table follows it, but woodworking table doesn't.

I farmed several hours the new area, passing it maybe twice and awhile in Wrothgar. The rune nodes drop now a mixture of vr15 AND vr16 potency runes, and finally with reasonable droprates. From total of about 70 potencies there was 3 Repora and 1 Itade, hinting to 5% vr16 droprate. We can get one vr16 potency in about hour's farming, instead of few months. For future advise, think twice before putting any RNG below 1%. Ratio between Repora and Itade is correct.

A question: is Hakeijo available in PvE? That would be the last item locked into IC PvP DLC. If not, maybe they should drop rarely from world bosses and heavy sacks. I know a teammate looted them from heavy sack in vWGT, but never heard anyone looting them outside IC. BTW i found very few heavy sacks in Hewsbane, only two while i found about twenty of those new stashes.

Please add few nodes to eastern side of the second town (forgot the name), between the wall and sea. It is a recluse and completely empty area now and a bit hard to reach. It would be a nice secret path for crafters. It is plain cliffs so i think blacksmith and rune nodes would fit in.

LaucianNailor · February 2016

Alternatively as a middle ground why don't the nodes in scaling zones ALL scale to the level of a characters highest crafting passive? So if 8 on blacksmith and 4 on all others, all node mats are level 8 in the zones when playing that character?

Casdha · February 2016

LaucianNailor wrote: »

Alternatively as a middle ground why don't the nodes in scaling zones ALL scale to the level of a characters highest crafting passive? So if 8 on blacksmith and 4 on all others, all node mats are level 8 in the zones when playing that character?

I wouldn't be totally opposed to this if you are talking about 8 point taken in the Metal working passive under Blacksmithing But I think it would cause problems with folks being able to do their writs because they would get mats higher than they could use for the other crafting lines.

Edit: You wouldn't be able to use the mats to craft because you cant craft 8 skill point material with only 4 skill points taken.

dsalter · February 2016

i find this to be extreamly pleasing, gives more people motivation to not skip crafting in my opinion

EQBallzz · February 2016

helediron wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Just my opinion, but I think the node scaling is pretty good as it is in Live currently for Wrothgar and Cyrodiil.

Why do you think it's pretty good? Do you only have one character who does all your crafting? I have 3, and it's painful since I can't harvest useful nodes in all professions at the same time like I could before the Orsinium DLC. If you only play one character, then you just can't understand the pain here. Would it be ok if it scaled to your character level instead? Are you vet 16? If so, then scaling to character level would still get you the top level mats, so I don't see why that would be a problem.
...snip...

It is still easier to learn the crafts to vr16 and assign the points than leveling a maxed crafter from low levels to vr15. Of the two choices: bind nodes to character level or the current, bind to points assigned, i prefer the current one. This option allows access to all mats at all professions at about vr1 level.

At least now crafters have the choice after some effort. The other option denies completely the highest tier mats until vr15. Only change i prefer over current system is to remove the whole leveling and let Wrothgar and Hews Bane be fixed to vr15 mats.

You're still just talking about a single character. If you have one character only that you play I can see why you would like this but for those of us who split up crafting into more than one or have multiple characters and want to harvest on all of them this option is terrible.

You say it's easier to craft top tier mats at a lower level but why should you be able to? It hasn't worked that way since the game launched (with the exception of provisioning and alchemy). Why should it suddenly be the case that low level characters should gain access to top tier crafting mats over those who have already leveled to that tier? At least in the old system you could have a single high level character that can efficiently harvest mats and provide those mats to multiple crafting characters and your crafting options increase as you level up more characters. Now, you can have multiple high level characters that can't even adequately or efficiently provide mats to your crafters. How does this make sense? It doesn't.

Dagonthir · February 2016

LaucianNailor wrote: »

Alternatively as a middle ground why don't the nodes in scaling zones ALL scale to the level of a characters highest crafting passive? So if 8 on blacksmith and 4 on all others, all node mats are level 8 in the zones when playing that character?

I'd be fine with this, but @Casdha makes a good point with the writs.

dsalter wrote: »

i find this to be extreamly pleasing, gives more people motivation to not skip crafting in my opinion

My problem with the current system is that I didn't skip crafting, I just did it across multiple characters. I did my time just like you, but none of my character can efficiently harvest because none have them all of the crafting skills maxed. But between the three of them, they have all 6 crafting lines maxed.

helediron wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

how would you feel if ZOS added additional logic to scaling nodes so that it scaled to either your current level or your skill passive, whichever is higher? That seems like it would suit both our needs.

I think you have found a perfect solution.

Thanks! ZOS make is so!

@Casdha You keep making the same argument and it just doesn't hold water for me, and I don't want to argue about it. I think your points would make a worthwhile discussion to have if we were talking about this before the game released, but we're having it now nearly two years later. As of prior to Orisinium, ESO had already established the rules that any character could harvest any node, and it was a wonderful choice IMO that took out a huge pain in MMOs. And people (like me) built their characters around those rules. Now they throw this new node scaling rule into the mix and I just feel like I've been screwed. I would have leveled all my characters all along if this had always been the rule, and not wasted so much time deconstructing gear on characters that were already maxed out. I don't even want to farm nodes, I just want to be able to harvest reasonable level nodes as I do quests, which is the way I've always gotten materials. Running around farming is not my thing.

What I would like to accomplish on this thread is to find a solution that works for everyone - ie. keeps the old rules somewhat in place so that people with alts can still harvest reasonable level nodes like they always could before, but also allows people with a dedicated crafter to farm high level nodes no matter what level they are and allows new-comers to the game that go to the new areas to also get reasonable level nodes (which is what I think the whole node scaling was put in place for anyways). Could we work toward that? Then I'd like to create a new thread proposing the solution since ZOS doesn't seem to pay attention to these older threads anyways. The conversation isn't worthwhile if no one at ZOS is paying attention.

spoqster · February 2016

Dagonthir wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

It is still easier to learn the crafts to vr16 and assign the points than leveling a maxed crafter from low levels to vr15. Of the two choices: bind nodes to character level or the current, bind to points assigned, i prefer the current one. This option allows access to all mats at all professions at about vr1 level.

Fair enough, I see your point. So in that case, how would you feel if ZOS added additional logic to scaling nodes so that it scaled to either your current level or your you skill passive, whichever is higher? That seems like it would suit both our needs.
...skip...

Good idea!

EQBallzz · February 2016

Casdha wrote: »

All I can say is that learning a craft is a one time cost. Being able to use the craft learned should come at a cost. It is no different than lets say Heavy Weapons. I can get that skill line maxed out at 50 and never have to do it again on that character but If I want to use Wrecking Blow I have to level that up and take the morph. Once I learn it that skill never goes away either but if I want to continue to use it I have to spend two skill points to be able to do so. The more skill paths I choose the less I'll be able to choose from each path.

Craft node scaling just offers a higher cost on the path someone chooses to take. The only reason folks have a problem with this is the skill point cost. If you want to be able to have enough skill point to make a fighter that you can swap out 4 different weapon lines or 3 different armor types for different situations without doing a respec, then your character chose a fighting path more than a crafting path.

IMHO there should be a benefit for choosing to dump a 100 skill points into one path and that is what node scaling does for crafting. A person doesn't even have to do that, 40 points on one character will let you gather any node you want, it just means you won't be able to take every single Class, Weapon, Armor, World, Undaunted, Alliance, Werewolf/Vampire and Race skill available.

I paid for mine by not taking Werewolf, Alliance or Undaunted on my crafting/gathering/solo character, If I want to do those things I have to play with a different one. I have a VR4 NB that can only pick up Iron and Maple and that doesn't bother me, it allows me to not be tempted to swipe the nodes from friends when I play with them. When I'm playing with friends, the last thing I want to do is run around gathering nodes.

I'm sorry but you are just wrong. The skill point expense is annoying at best but not the main problem or concern. I had the skill points to spend. The problem is that I planned out my characters based on a different system. The problem is that leveling up crafting is infinitely easier to do while leveling (deconstructing all items as you level) compared to doing it at max level where it will cost you 100k+ in gold and a lot of time to accomplish. The problem is that for those of us leveling multiple characters through the zone we can't harvest like we always have without spending huge sums of gold and time to duplicate crafting skills on multiple characters. Why should people have to level up the same crafting skills on multiple characters just to harvest? It defies logic.

I just have to also ask you..if this node scaling is such a good idea why didn't they do it in all zones? I'll tell you why..because it wouldn't work. It would mean nobody could harvest anything but the tier of mats they are currently leveled up to regardless of the zone they were in. That would be idiotic. If it can't work everywhere..that's a pretty good indication that it's a stupid idea to begin with. If all they care about is the scarcity of these mats (what they claim to be the reason for this change) they could address that in a different way without screwing over players with multiple characters and who set up their characters based on the way the game was prior to this change.

barrrt · February 2016

From my perspective of a casual player (I’ve played probably every day since day 1 and my highest only just turned VR12 yesterday), the node scaling is by far the worst thing about ESO right now (and yes, that included PVP lag).

As a casual, I do not have abundance of skill points on any of my toons, but one, to max out all professions, especially since they are not going to be crafting. As a result it is extremely frustrating to take them into Wrothgar. They cannot gather mats for themselves, ending up with stacks of Jute and Iron instead. And mats are, in my mind, a reward for exploration.

Reading this thread, there are clearly people who feel strongly about this one way or another, so a straightforward solution I’d love to see is a per character (or maybe even per-character and per-profession) toggle in Gameplay Settings between scaling to the profession passive vs character level. This way those who are leveling crafting and doing writs can gather what they need, and those of us who are done with crafting leveling can gather mats we actually need to give to our crafters.

Dagonthir · February 2016

EQBallzz wrote: »

If it can't work everywhere..that's a pretty good indication that it's a stupid idea to begin with.

Yes, this.

barrrt wrote: »

... so a straightforward solution I’d love to see is a per character (or maybe even per-character and per-profession) toggle in Gameplay Settings between scaling to the profession passive vs character level. This way those who are leveling crafting and doing writs can gather what they need, and those of us who are done with crafting leveling can gather mats we actually need to give to our crafters.

This would be excellent, especially if you could set a different toggle on each crafting skill.

Anyone who thinks the crafting node scaling mechanic should be changed, please in-game feedback via /feedback.

helediron · February 2016

EQBallzz wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Just my opinion, but I think the node scaling is pretty good as it is in Live currently for Wrothgar and Cyrodiil.

Why do you think it's pretty good? Do you only have one character who does all your crafting? I have 3, and it's painful since I can't harvest useful nodes in all professions at the same time like I could before the Orsinium DLC. If you only play one character, then you just can't understand the pain here. Would it be ok if it scaled to your character level instead? Are you vet 16? If so, then scaling to character level would still get you the top level mats, so I don't see why that would be a problem.
...snip...

It is still easier to learn the crafts to vr16 and assign the points than leveling a maxed crafter from low levels to vr15. Of the two choices: bind nodes to character level or the current, bind to points assigned, i prefer the current one. This option allows access to all mats at all professions at about vr1 level.

At least now crafters have the choice after some effort. The other option denies completely the highest tier mats until vr15. Only change i prefer over current system is to remove the whole leveling and let Wrothgar and Hews Bane be fixed to vr15 mats.

You're still just talking about a single character. If you have one character only that you play I can see why you would like this but for those of us who split up crafting into more than one or have multiple characters and want to harvest on all of them this option is terrible.

You say it's easier to craft top tier mats at a lower level but why should you be able to? It hasn't worked that way since the game launched (with the exception of provisioning and alchemy). Why should it suddenly be the case that low level characters should gain access to top tier crafting mats over those who have already leveled to that tier? At least in the old system you could have a single high level character that can efficiently harvest mats and provide those mats to multiple crafting characters and your crafting options increase as you level up more characters. Now, you can have multiple high level characters that can't even adequately or efficiently provide mats to your crafters. How does this make sense? It doesn't.

Hehe, no, i am not talking about single character, but about how different options compare to each other. I play with multiple accounts and with an army of crafters. I have the experience from every combination you can think of. Personally this issue is not bothering me at all, but i can write from much wider experience than an average player can.

Elsonso · February 2016

helediron wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

It is still easier to learn the crafts to vr16 and assign the points than leveling a maxed crafter from low levels to vr15. Of the two choices: bind nodes to character level or the current, bind to points assigned, i prefer the current one. This option allows access to all mats at all professions at about vr1 level.

Fair enough, I see your point. So in that case, how would you feel if ZOS added additional logic to scaling nodes so that it scaled to either your current level or your you skill passive, whichever is higher? That seems like it would suit both our needs.
...skip...

I think you have found a perfect solution.

Not really.

I think that something closer to a perfect solution would be to simply not scale the resource nodes in DLC areas at all. There is no reason why a Level 3 character right out of prison cannot be farming Ancestor Silk since they are perfectly welcome in Wrothgar and Hew's Bane. Any VR character can farm Craglorn, no matter what the crafting level and skill allocation is. Just because it is a DLC does not mean that they have to spoon feed you only what you need, to the exclusion of everything else.

As it stands today, Wrothgar and Hew's Bane are not terribly bad for resources, unless you are looking for a specific type of resource. As long as you can get that resource from somewhere, it is not a concern. It becomes a concern once you can no longer find that resource in the wild because your level/skill allocations prevent you from even seeing it.

Food for thought: Allow DLC nodes to randomly spawn resources of all levels. You might be looking for Ancestor Silk, but you will also find Jute, Cotton, and other cloth nodes.

Faulgor · February 2016

Can we have confirmation that the 100% scaling with the Thieves Guild update is intentional and not a bug?
Because I can't find it in the patch notes.

Dagonthir · February 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

I think that something closer to a perfect solution would be to simply not scale the resource nodes in DLC areas at all.

I completely agree with this, and would be totally fine with this. But they were trying to address something by doing the scaling. The best I've been able to find for what that something is, is in the 2.2.4 Patch Notes (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/227778/pc-mac-live-patch-notes-v2-2-4#latest) where it says "This is to ensure everyone gets materials they can use, at any level." I think the point of scaling was to facilitate lower level characters and new players to be able to go into the new zones and get good crafting nodes. I don't think they intended to screw over people who did crafting on multiple characters, but that's what they did nonetheless. Anyhow, I would absolutely prefer no scaling over what they have now. If that were the case, I still wouldn't get materials that I can use now (my highest level character is vet 5), but at least I could look forward to using them later.

lordrichter wrote: »

Food for thought: Allow DLC nodes to randomly spawn resources of all levels. You might be looking for Ancestor Silk, but you will also find Jute, Cotton, and other cloth nodes.

Interesting idea, but I'm not really digging it since I don't want to get lower tier nodes occasionally. And there's no doubt it would annoy a lot of people... you know it to be true.

Casdha · February 2016

The only reason they introduced node scaling is because of the way the new DLC zones work. It is so low level players can play the new content and that low level players wouldn't automatically be able to get the highest tier mats.

Put the shoe on the other foot, how would folks feel if you could go and do an Undaunted dungeon at lvl 5 (not VR5) and get auto scaled up to VR15 and be able to get monster gear drops that are VR15 or VR16 not level 5?

If VR15/16 nodes go to a permanent state for these zones then these zones would have to be VR 15/16 zones without auto scaling.

I think the real solution will be coming one day whether folks want it or not and that is shared leveling. If you have max on one character, then you have max on all characters. They have already started this with the CP and it will continue even more once Vet levels are dropped. I suspect learning skills (any kind of skill) will follow suit eventually. This will make it a moot point weather someone learned it on one character or three because if you have it maxed on one you will have it maxed on all.

NBrookus · February 2016

LaucianNailor wrote: »

Alternatively as a middle ground why don't the nodes in scaling zones ALL scale to the level of a characters highest crafting passive? So if 8 on blacksmith and 4 on all others, all node mats are level 8 in the zones when playing that character?

No thank you, we need to be able to harvest mats at a specific level sometimes, for gearing up alts or lower level guildies, for example. Heading to the zone where those mats drop is easy and painless, and doesn't require an expensive respec.

Elsonso · February 2016

Casdha wrote: »

I think the real solution will be coming one day whether folks want it or not and that is shared leveling. If you have max on one character, then you have max on all characters. They have already started this with the CP and it will continue even more once Vet levels are dropped. I suspect learning skills (any kind of skill) will follow suit eventually. This will make it a moot point weather someone learned it on one character or three because if you have it maxed on one you will have it maxed on all.

Well, hmm.

Hopefully some other MMORPG comes along before this does.

spoqster · February 2016

I just noticed finding iron ore and jute in Cyrodiil on the PTS with my template character. That means ZOS now are using node scaling (to the crafting passive) in Cyrodiil as well. Please ZOS, for the love of god change it.

My personal order of preference is the following:

Scale it to the character level
Scale it to what is larger, character level or crafting passive
Don't scale it at all, and put max level nodes

Any of these solutions would be better than to scale it to the crafting passive. That's just a terrible, terrible idea and I would like to buy the person who had that idea a couple of beers, just to explain why this idea is terrible.

Casdha · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

I just noticed finding iron ore and jute in Cyrodiil on the PTS with my template character. That means ZOS now are using node scaling (to the crafting passive) in Cyrodiil as well. Please ZOS, for the love of god change it.

My personal order of preference is the following:
Scale it to the character level

Scale it to what is larger, character level or crafting passive

Don't scale it at all, and put max level nodes

Any of these solutions would be better than to scale it to the crafting passive. That's just a terrible, terrible idea and I would like to buy the person who had that idea a couple of beers, just to explain why this idea is terrible.

This has been this way since Wrothgar DLC came out. At least on PTS all scale node zones are 100% VR15/16 mats now rather than the occasional one with mostly VR10/14 as it is on live. (that is if you have the skill points taken)

LaucianNailor · February 2016

@NBrookus

That's not the point being made. Yes it's easy to go to a lower level zone to harvest lower level mats and that simply won't change and I wouldn't want it to. The issue is purely for scaled zones where battle levelling is applied (Wrothgar and to be Hew's Bane) and the inability to harvest higher level mats because a character has not levelled EVERY crafting line. The suggested approach allows the harvesting of the highest level mats for all nodes to allow you to continue to progress either a dedicated crafter or other Alts where they have specialised in a specific crafting skill.

Dagonthir · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

Any of these solutions would be better than to scale it to the crafting passive. That's just a terrible, terrible idea and I would like to buy the person who had that idea a couple of beers, just to explain why this idea is terrible.

LOL, yes, I would like to do that too! Scaling to crafting passive IS a terrible idea.

Casdha wrote: »

The only reason they introduced node scaling is because of the way the new DLC zones work. It is so low level players can play the new content and that low level players wouldn't automatically be able to get the highest tier mats.

Maybe, maybe not, but that's not the reason given in the patch notes. Anyhow, that is a good reason to have scaling whether that was the real reason or not. If you can provide a link to the real reason other than the the one I already provided up above to the 2.2.4 patch notes, then I'd love to see it because I'd like to know their reasoning.

Casdha wrote: »

Put the shoe on the other foot, how would folks feel if you could go and do an Undaunted dungeon at lvl 5 (not VR5) and get auto scaled up to VR15 and be able to get monster gear drops that are VR15 or VR16 not level 5?

Gear already scales to player level, and no one is complaining about that. Asking to harvest high level crafting nodes is not like having shared skills because ESO already set the rules before Orsinium.

Casdha wrote: »

I suspect learning skills (any kind of skill) will follow suit eventually. This will make it a moot point weather someone learned it on one character or three because if you have it maxed on one you will have it maxed on all.

I don't believe this will ever happen, nor is anyone asking for it. Doing this would most certainly annoy a lot of people.

NBrookus · February 2016

LaucianNailor wrote: »

@NBrookus

That's not the point being made. Yes it's easy to go to a lower level zone to harvest lower level mats and that simply won't change and I wouldn't want it to. The issue is purely for scaled zones where battle levelling is applied (Wrothgar and to be Hew's Bane) and the inability to harvest higher level mats because a character has not levelled EVERY crafting line. The suggested approach allows the harvesting of the highest level mats for all nodes to allow you to continue to progress either a dedicated crafter or other Alts where they have specialised in a specific crafting skill.

@LaucianNailor Sorry, I mis-read.

However, I like the node scaling.

Dagonthir · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

My personal order of preference is the following:
Scale it to the character level

Scale it to what is larger, character level or crafting passive

Don't scale it at all, and put max level nodes

This would be my preference too. However, @helediron made a good point about why scaling to character level doesn't work well for everyone:

helediron wrote: »

It is still easier to learn the crafts to vr16 and assign the points than leveling a maxed crafter from low levels to vr15. Of the two choices: bind nodes to character level or the current, bind to points assigned, i prefer the current one. This option allows access to all mats at all professions at about vr1 level.

^Good point. Also, @barrrt made an interesting suggestion about letting players choose the level of nodes through the game Settings:

barrrt wrote: »

Reading this thread, there are clearly people who feel strongly about this one way or another, so a straightforward solution I’d love to see is a per character (or maybe even per-character and per-profession) toggle in Gameplay Settings between scaling to the profession passive vs character level.

I'm not sure if ZOS would be willing to entertain that option, but that would probably be the best option if they did. So I'd suggest an order of preference of:

Let player choose via Settings whether to scale to character level or to passive on a per profession basis
Scale it to what is larger, character level or crafting passive
Scale it to the character level
Don't scale it at all, and put max level nodes

Casdha · February 2016

If folks do come up with good enough arguments and get ZOS to change how they do things, I think making the zones just have Permanent High tier mats would be a very bad decision.

If a player could come straight out of the Wailing prison and start gathering the highest level mats by going to a DLC zone first,,,, well I don't think ZOS has the resources anymore to combat the amount of bots that would show up because soon as one got squashed they would be able to start another one instantly without having to level it to a zone, so they would just keep popping up. But then again that could just be my paranoia and pessimism kickin in.

Tying nodes to crafting skill wouldn't be any quicker to learn as you still have to be level 50 to take the 10th tier, it would just remove the cost in skill points.

Tying it to Character level would also remove the cost in skill points but make it much harder to get to a point to where you could gather the mats.

Here is an oddball idea, how about a perk in one of the constellations along the lines of Master Gatherer where it reduces harvesting times by 50%. You have another one that kicks in when enough CP is spent that allows you to gather nodes based on your highest level crafting skill line (still based off of skill points spent). This way folks that have broken duties up between characters could still take advantage of it for each if they wanted by taking the CP perk. Have it kick in at lets say the 30 CP level if folks choose to do it this way. This would allow folks to break up the skill point cost between characters at the cost of taking a perk with CP.

Before CP perk is taken you have 3 characters each maxed out in a different skill one can gather wood, one can gather metal, and one can gather cloth. Each character that takes the CP perk could take advantage of basing their gathering off of the highest skilled crafter even the other 5 that didn't level any crafting. It is still a cost but offers options. If you have a character you don't want to gather with, you don't take the CP perk or you can choose not to take the CP perk at all and leave things the way they are now.

Just an idea, I hope it is not to jumbled up to follow what I'm trying to say.

Edit: It would also discourage the bots because CP don't kick in until you have at least one character to level 50
Edit 2: you could just tie it to Master Gatherer if you didn't want to give up one of the other perks, Then have it say " Reduce Gathering time by 50% and base gathering off of highest skilled crafter" but that perk takes 75 CP to get.

Dagonthir · February 2016

barrrt wrote: »

... a straightforward solution I’d love to see is a per character (or maybe even per-character and per-profession) toggle in Gameplay Settings between scaling to the profession passive vs character level. This way those who are leveling crafting and doing writs can gather what they need, and those of us who are done with crafting leveling can gather mats we actually need to give to our crafters.

Another idea along the lines of having "Gameplay Settings" would be to allow players to choose what level they want to gather at in each profession, with the available range being from level 1 to whichever is greater between character level and crafting skill passive. That would be the most most most flexible option (though also the most complex, and potentially confusing depending on how the UI was implemented) as it would allow everyone to gather lower tier mats if they needed to gear up a lower level alt or a guildie. If they did scaling this way, then they could put scaling in everywhere, including the level 1 to 50 content. That would also make farming easier (for those that do, I don't) since you could just go anywhere where's not a lot of people.

Casdha wrote: »

If folks do come up with good enough arguments and get ZOS to change how they do things, I think making the zones just have Permanent High tier mats would be a very bad decision.

If a player could come straight out of the Wailing prison and start gathering the highest level mats by going to a DLC zone first,,,, well I don't think ZOS has the resources anymore to combat the amount of bots that would show up because soon as one got squashed they would be able to start another one instantly without having to level it to a zone, so they would just keep popping up. But then again that could just be my paranoia and pessimism kickin in.

Good point, there should definitely should be some kind of scaling put in. I think most of the suggestions put forth recently would address this concern, so we can just take the last option "Don't scale it at all, and put max level nodes" off the list.

Casdha wrote: »

Here is an oddball idea, how about a perk in one of the constellations along the lines of Master Gatherer where it reduces harvesting times by 50%. You have another one that kicks in when enough CP is spent that allows you to gather nodes based on your highest level crafting skill line (still based off of skill points spent). This way folks that have broken duties up between characters could still take advantage of it for each if they wanted by taking the CP perk. Have it kick in at lets say the 30 CP level if folks choose to do it this way. This would allow folks to break up the skill point cost between characters at the cost of taking a perk with CP.

I assume you mean "highest level crafting skill line of all of your characters on the account". I think this is an interesting idea, and would be absolutely cool with it. I wouldn't mind spending CP to be able to harvest good mats on all my characters.

Elsonso · February 2016

Casdha wrote: »

If folks do come up with good enough arguments and get ZOS to change how they do things, I think making the zones just have Permanent High tier mats would be a very bad decision.

If a player could come straight out of the Wailing prison and start gathering the highest level mats by going to a DLC zone first,,,, well I don't think ZOS has the resources anymore to combat the amount of bots that would show up because soon as one got squashed they would be able to start another one instantly without having to level it to a zone, so they would just keep popping up. But then again that could just be my paranoia and pessimism kickin in.

I would not weigh bots so highly here. First, the DLC will require ESO Plus or an investment in Crowns, which complicates things. More work is required to create a disposable account. Second, mat sales prices are not as tiered in this game. I sell iron ore for about the same as the higher level mats. Given that iron ore is easy to come by due to Wrothgar scaling, the bots would just sell the entry level mats. Bots don't even need the DLC at all.

Casdha · February 2016

Dagonthir wrote: »

I assume you mean "highest level crafting skill line of all of your characters on the account". I think this is an interesting idea, and would be absolutely cool with it. I wouldn't mind spending CP to be able to harvest good mats on all my characters.

Yes that is what I meant.