Bugged enlightenment system! People with 250+ CP's already! Not a good start for 1.6!

SC0TY999 · March 2015

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

How and where does one grind this CP?

It was nerfed.

A hotfix that was released last night stopped it!

Kupoking · March 2015

Foresaw that all along and even suggested some stuff. Here is my original post :

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153960/proposition-about-champion-points-gaining#latest

But hey can't take away the 24hrs a day grinding in work those 250 cp guys did. But yeah being enlighted for 3 straight days...

Skjoldur · March 2015

Turelus wrote: »

A roll-back would certainly be beneficial to everyone, though it would have to be literally everyone (including those innocent of using the bugs) to keep it fair.

Pretty sure that's going to cause people to rage quit though, if the EXP nerfs to farming locations hasn't already. Sad that Champion System has become a power scale rather than a fun exra, although maybe we should have seen this coming after what the PTS showed us when you had all CP invested.

Combat stats might be the wrong way to have gone it seems.

No rollback would be necessary. It's quiet easy to calculate how much points they could have gotten with enlightenment if the system had worked. Any points they accumulated above that that can be divided by 4. Something similar could be done for players that did not get the bonus correctly.

danno8 · March 2015

Hmm. Math.

Start with 70 CP. OP says 250. So these people have acquired 180 CP.

180/3 days= 60 CP per day
60/24 = 2.5 CP per hour

So OP you are saying that some people had permanent enlightenment and have grinded for 72 hours straight, at a rate of 2.5 CP per hour?

Screenshot plz, seems implausible.

Animal_Mother · March 2015

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Hmm. Math.

Start with 70 CP. OP says 250. So these people have acquired 180 CP.

180/3 days= 60 CP per day
60/24 = 2.5 CP per hour

So OP you are saying that some people had permanent enlightenment and have grinded for 72 hours straight, at a rate of 2.5 CP per hour?

Screenshot plz, seems implausible.

Some people were saying they were earning 1CP every 10 minutes. Skyreach Catacombs was reportedly rewarding large amounts of CP. If this wasn't true, why did ZOS issue a hotfix last night limiting XP for the areas and limiting Enlightenment to 1 CP/day?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155801/3-7-15-hotfixes-and-cyrodiil-bonuses#latest

Alcast · March 2015

skyreach= 80k exp in 7 minutes witrhout enlightenment. but now nerfed.

Shadesofkin · March 2015

SC0TY999 wrote: »

The title states everything!

You should just roll everything back so everyone is back on 70 CP and disable enlightenment until it's fixed!

It's going to get out of hand!

Utter and complete Balderdash.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

roechacca wrote: »

Stop punishing players for playing . I could less if anyone got more then me . If they put in the time and are stronger for it , good for them . There's always gonna be a gap . That's mmos . There's already a 70 pt for new players vs vr14 . Just the way it goes .

This. It's how mmorpg titles work. Besides, I'm not sure why everyone in the current forum groupthink is riled up about champion points yet didn't care about level 50, vr1l0, vr12 added in, then vr14, undaunted sets, trials gear, rare pvp blue bag sets, etc before

. Champion levels are actually significantly less important than those, and by design for at least a main build you can get half or more of the power with a couple of hundred points against someone with thoussnd(s). This basically is an overblown fad to complain about, in my honest opinion.

Roechacca · March 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Stop punishing players for playing . I could less if anyone got more then me . If they put in the time and are stronger for it , good for them . There's always gonna be a gap . That's mmos . There's already a 70 pt for new players vs vr14 . Just the way it goes .

This. It's how mmorpg titles work. Besides, I'm not sure why everyone in the current forum groupthink is riled up about champion points yet didn't care about level 50, vr1l0, vr12 added in, then vr14, undaunted sets, trials gear, rare pvp blue bag sets, etc before . Champion levels are actually significantly less important than those, and by design for at least a main build you can get half or more of the power with a couple of hundred points against someone with thoussnd(s). This basically is an overblown fad to complain about, in my honest opinion.

I know right . I think they just flip out because their called "Champion" points . They get all "Oh no ! He's more of a champion then me ! Nerf him ! Roll back roll back !"

When in truth were talking 5-10% minuscule bonuses on top of a system now increased to the 10th power . Mathematically it's minute changes with bigger diminishing returns at the end of each number stream . I think this whole panic roll back crowd is a direct product of the pre No Child Left Behind act .

ferzalrwb17_ESO · March 2015

Not sure if it was deliberately exploitable or not but with the bugged enlightenment some people have had an opportunity to stream ahead of everyone else by doing the same amount of grinding. This is, of course, gamebreaking. Find some number that's not as dumb as 70 and set all VR14s to this new number of Champion Points and start over again once the enlightenment bugs are gone.

Then un-nerf XP again because the after-the-horse-has-bolted solution just DOES NOT WORK.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

roechacca wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Stop punishing players for playing . I could less if anyone got more then me . If they put in the time and are stronger for it , good for them . There's always gonna be a gap . That's mmos . There's already a 70 pt for new players vs vr14 . Just the way it goes .

This. It's how mmorpg titles work. Besides, I'm not sure why everyone in the current forum groupthink is riled up about champion points yet didn't care about level 50, vr1l0, vr12 added in, then vr14, undaunted sets, trials gear, rare pvp blue bag sets, etc before . Champion levels are actually significantly less important than those, and by design for at least a main build you can get half or more of the power with a couple of hundred points against someone with thoussnd(s). This basically is an overblown fad to complain about, in my honest opinion.

I know right . I think they just flip out because their called "Champion" points . They get all "Oh no ! He's more of a champion then me ! Nerf him ! Roll back roll back !"

When in truth were talking 5-10% minuscule bonuses on top of a system now increased to the 10th power . Mathematically it's minute changes with bigger diminishing returns at the end of each number stream . I think this whole panic roll back crowd is a direct product of the pre No Child Left Behind act .

Yep, it's a bit of a trend both in gaming and society honestly. It's never you that messed up, made you fail or lose. It's everyone and everything else, just not your fault. Obviously was a bad map, or someone cheated, or overpowered classes, or lag. Absolutely couldn't have been your poor build, bad ability load out, you missing a crucial dodge roll or block. Nope it definitely was the 3 percent lower stamina cost the other guys had, even though neither of you were low on resources. Yep, that's it.

Khaldar · March 2015

SC0TY999 wrote: »

The title states everything!

What's the official word on this from ZOS?

The people with 250+ CP's are going to be far OP'd compared to everyone else!

You should just roll everything back so everyone is back on 70 CP and disable enlightenment until it's fixed!

It's going to get out of hand!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

NOOO! Rolling everyone back is like putting 1 suture in a wound that needs 8. They should correct anyone with an extremely high number of CP. Anything over 100 CP should be investigated and corrected.

If you take away my 14 CP that I grinded normally, then you go shove this game right up your...

ferzalrwb17_ESO · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Audigy · March 2015

At D3 there were some bugs in Beta that made it to release. They allowed players to gain a massive amount of gold and items. Blizzard never made a roll back and D3 was broken for two full years.

Therefore you can only hope that ZO does a full Rollback, it cant be of any concern that innocent people might get hit as well. Those that abused the system need to be taken down in a matter of speech. If they don't fix it now, it will drag ESO down forever.

If the rumors are true then some players have more than 300 CP already, once the patch comes it would be close to 400, just think about this. It kills the whole progression in trials and AVA, as some will be able to dominate there just because they abused game mechanics.

In the end, I just don't understand why ZO allowed this to happen. To me it has no impact as I don't compete for ladder rankings or AvA, but those that do - how must this look for them? Its such a debacle and you can only wish the ZO team a thick skin over the next few weeks.

They want people to sub in 10 days, this was the wrong way.

Shadesofkin · March 2015

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2015

Animal_Mother wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Hmm. Math.

Start with 70 CP. OP says 250. So these people have acquired 180 CP.

180/3 days= 60 CP per day
60/24 = 2.5 CP per hour

So OP you are saying that some people had permanent enlightenment and have grinded for 72 hours straight, at a rate of 2.5 CP per hour?

Screenshot plz, seems implausible.

Some people were saying they were earning 1CP every 10 minutes. Skyreach Catacombs was reportedly rewarding large amounts of CP. If this wasn't true, why did ZOS issue a hotfix last night limiting XP for the areas and limiting Enlightenment to 1 CP/day?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155801/3-7-15-hotfixes-and-cyrodiil-bonuses#latest

It was 4 per day enlightenment instead of 1. They were lying to you about those gains.

Soulshine · March 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Stop punishing players for playing . I could less if anyone got more then me . If they put in the time and are stronger for it , good for them . There's always gonna be a gap . That's mmos . There's already a 70 pt for new players vs vr14 . Just the way it goes .

This. It's how mmorpg titles work. Besides, I'm not sure why everyone in the current forum groupthink is riled up about champion points yet didn't care about level 50, vr1l0, vr12 added in, then vr14, undaunted sets, trials gear, rare pvp blue bag sets, etc before . Champion levels are actually significantly less important than those, and by design for at least a main build you can get half or more of the power with a couple of hundred points against someone with thoussnd(s). This basically is an overblown fad to complain about, in my honest opinion.

I know right . I think they just flip out because their called "Champion" points . They get all "Oh no ! He's more of a champion then me ! Nerf him ! Roll back roll back !"

When in truth were talking 5-10% minuscule bonuses on top of a system now increased to the 10th power . Mathematically it's minute changes with bigger diminishing returns at the end of each number stream . I think this whole panic roll back crowd is a direct product of the pre No Child Left Behind act .

Yep, it's a bit of a trend both in gaming and society honestly. It's never you that messed up, made you fail or lose. It's everyone and everything else, just not your fault. Obviously was a bad map, or someone cheated, or overpowered classes, or lag. Absolutely couldn't have been your poor build, bad ability load out, you missing a crucial dodge roll or block. Nope it definitely was the 3 percent lower stamina cost the other guys had, even though neither of you were low on resources. Yep, that's it.

Equating what is obviously a bug completely acknowledged by ZOS themselves as needing to be fixed is not even in the same ballpark of what you are going on about. Condescending to people unhappy with this issue does not give you the higher ground -- on anything.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes. Not that gigantic an advantage anyway, mathematically. And as far as the number of people who might have been able to do it, it's probably under a hundredth of a percent of the total playerbase anyway. Ideal? Nope. But rolling back everyone would be many orders of magnitude worse.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · March 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes. Not that gigantic an advantage anyway, mathematically. And as far as the number of people who might have been able to do it, it's probably under a hundredth of a percent of the total playerbase anyway. Ideal? Nope. But rolling back everyone would be many orders of magnitude worse.

Not that much of an advantage in PvP? Clearly you haven't looked at all the numbers and the passives. Let me introduce you to Cyro one day...

edit: By the way, for the uninitiated, there is a leaderboard in PvP that gives legendary item rewards and there's a "race" for Emperor (in theory) so a small percentage of people having an unfair advantage is a big deal.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes.

1) I'd rather have the HOPE of reaching hundreds or even thousands of CP myself rather than no hope at all. Face it: the only way ANYONE is going to reach the "end game" of the CP system is if they luck into some kind of rapid XP gain technique.

2) I have ZERO sympathy for PvPers because of all the nerfs they've caused for my Sorcerer! The fact that they keep jacking up the buff server for DC doesn't warm my heart, either.

DDuke · March 2015

Who are these people talking about "miniscule differences" and "how it's not a big deal"?

Let's zoom in 3 months from now, we'll assume the grinders gain 50% more CPs than non-grinders (that's being generous).

This is the difference between 750 & 500 CPs for a stamina build:

-5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
+4.5% Stamina Regeneration
+5.1% more Healing Reduction
+5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
+9% Physical Critical Strike damage
+5.9% Armour Penetration
+1.2% Spell Resistance
-6.9% DoT damage taken
-5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
-5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
50% reduced Gathering times
Better items from Treasure Chests
15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

That's equal to a a dozen 5-set bonuses, and this is without even counting in the Health/Magicka/Stamina difference the CPs also grant.

Not miniscule bonuses, especially when the gap is likely going to be much bigger than 50% (there are already people with 100-300% more CPs than most people).

What happened to games being rewarding to those who were good at them, instead of the ones who grinded the most?

Audigy · March 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes. Not that gigantic an advantage anyway, mathematically. And as far as the number of people who might have been able to do it, it's probably under a hundredth of a percent of the total playerbase anyway. Ideal? Nope. But rolling back everyone would be many orders of magnitude worse.

Sadly this isn't how a good game designer can think

If your game is online and some people abused bugs then you can not let them keep doing it. First you must eliminate their possibilities and afterwards reset them or completely ban their accounts.

Unfortunately is this way harder than it looks, as they would need to code a program that checks everyones CP and those with 150+ would be punished. Again, this wouldn't prove that they really abused the bugs.

You see where I am going to right?

Its not possible to filter the bad apples out, its just not.

But the economy is still ruined so you must do what is easy to do and repairs the damage. Roll back the CP´s or lift everyone up to a maximum of 150.

In an online game you simply put cant protect those who are legit by never hurting those who are not legit. As a legit person myself I wish to see a roll back, I wish to see those who use exploits to be banned because this will help the game and if I would lose some XP by this, then so be it.

Don't look at today, look at the future and how those currently exploiting will hurt your experience forever.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes.

1) I'd rather have the HOPE of reaching hundreds or even thousands of CP myself rather than no hope at all. Face it: the only way ANYONE is going to reach the "end game" of the CP system is if they luck into some kind of rapid XP gain technique.

2) I have ZERO sympathy for PvPers because of all the nerfs they've caused for my Sorcerer! The fact that they keep jacking up the buff server for DC doesn't warm my heart, either.

2) L2P Sorc. They're fine. And we've been trying to defend your precious buff server against the hordes of AD and EP who are far more likely to have exploited this bug than the types of DC you find on Chill. gg

Aeratus · March 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Stop punishing players for playing . I could less if anyone got more then me . If they put in the time and are stronger for it , good for them . There's always gonna be a gap . That's mmos . There's already a 70 pt for new players vs vr14 . Just the way it goes .

This. It's how mmorpg titles work. Besides, I'm not sure why everyone in the current forum groupthink is riled up about champion points yet didn't care about level 50, vr1l0, vr12 added in, then vr14, undaunted sets, trials gear, rare pvp blue bag sets, etc before .

Not even a close comparison. Most trial gear is crap. PVP bags can be purchased, v14 can be obtained in a few days of grinding (in the past). On the other hand, 250 CP is expected to take months for most active players. Moreover, for all of those things you mentioned, you can eventually "catch up" in that at the endgame, everyone can have equal gear strength. But with CPs, you can never catch up to the hardcore grinders, so you are more and more left behind.

Smiteye · March 2015

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes. Not that gigantic an advantage anyway, mathematically. And as far as the number of people who might have been able to do it, it's probably under a hundredth of a percent of the total playerbase anyway. Ideal? Nope. But rolling back everyone would be many orders of magnitude worse.

Not that much of an advantage in PvP? Clearly you haven't looked at all the numbers and the passives. Let me introduce you to Cyro one day...

edit: By the way, for the uninitiated, there is a leaderboard in PvP that gives legendary item rewards and there's a "race" for Emperor (in theory) so a small percentage of people having an unfair advantage is a big deal.

He's spent plenty of time in Cyrodiil

. Look at the numbers and how diminishing returns hit in the champion system quickly and @Attorneyatlawl is completely one hundred percent spot on.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · March 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes. Not that gigantic an advantage anyway, mathematically. And as far as the number of people who might have been able to do it, it's probably under a hundredth of a percent of the total playerbase anyway. Ideal? Nope. But rolling back everyone would be many orders of magnitude worse.

Not that much of an advantage in PvP? Clearly you haven't looked at all the numbers and the passives. Let me introduce you to Cyro one day...

edit: By the way, for the uninitiated, there is a leaderboard in PvP that gives legendary item rewards and there's a "race" for Emperor (in theory) so a small percentage of people having an unfair advantage is a big deal.

He's spent plenty of time in Cyrodiil . Look at the numbers and how diminishing returns hit in the champion system quickly and @Attorneyatlawl is completely one hundred percent spot on.

Nope.

M001 · March 2015

as we all know, as many hoped, as after each update. but this time the damage is the biggest ever. Simply go to Skyreach pinnacle or catacomb, farming and hard. there will be no roll-back as there was at the time of the vampire. there is no other way to defend ourselves, because of these incompetent.

Smiteye · March 2015

Aeratus wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Stop punishing players for playing . I could less if anyone got more then me . If they put in the time and are stronger for it , good for them . There's always gonna be a gap . That's mmos . There's already a 70 pt for new players vs vr14 . Just the way it goes .

This. It's how mmorpg titles work. Besides, I'm not sure why everyone in the current forum groupthink is riled up about champion points yet didn't care about level 50, vr1l0, vr12 added in, then vr14, undaunted sets, trials gear, rare pvp blue bag sets, etc before .

Not even a close comparison. Most trial gear is crap. PVP bags can be purchased, v14 can be obtained in a few days of grinding (in the past). On the other hand, 250 CP is expected to take months for most active players. Moreover, for all of those things you mentioned, you can eventually "catch up" in that at the endgame, everyone can have equal gear strength. But with CPs, you can never catch up to the hardcore grinders, so you are more and more left behind.

Yet some of the trial gear is great and that's what matters. PVP bags can be purchased but you have to do something to get them in the first place so that's irrelevant. VR14 is the same idea as the champion system is, takes a bit of time then you cap. Except vr14 is a huge huge amount stronger than vr1. Champion 2500 is not a huge huge amount stronger than champion 500.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's been hell just grinding my way to 80 CP... I swear if I get rolled back because of a bunch of whiners I'm going to go apes--t.

So we should leave those with hundreds of CP free to roam around in PvP against those that have 80ish?

Yes. Not that gigantic an advantage anyway, mathematically. And as far as the number of people who might have been able to do it, it's probably under a hundredth of a percent of the total playerbase anyway. Ideal? Nope. But rolling back everyone would be many orders of magnitude worse.

Not that much of an advantage in PvP? Clearly you haven't looked at all the numbers and the passives. Let me introduce you to Cyro one day...

edit: By the way, for the uninitiated, there is a leaderboard in PvP that gives legendary item rewards and there's a "race" for Emperor (in theory) so a small percentage of people having an unfair advantage is a big deal.

He's spent plenty of time in Cyrodiil . Look at the numbers and how diminishing returns hit in the champion system quickly and @Attorneyatlawl is completely one hundred percent spot on.

Nope.

Actually, yes.

Given that most builds will reach what they need to have in effectiveness pretty quickly since a lot of bonuses aren't applicable to more than one or two build niches each (I don't need to do 10% more damage with my destruction staff heavy attacks if I'm a stamina 2h user for example) and the chart above.... I rest my case.