For Devs about Blood spawn.

Urzigurumash

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Nonsense different from nonsensical. Although my English is bad.

It means the same to say "the facts are nonsense" as "the facts are nonsensical". It is slightly more precise to say nonsensical rather than nonsense, from a certain point of view facts cannot be nonsense, but may share characteristics with nonsense, such as defying reason or logic. My point was you described what he had posted as facts, I think you meant to say they are opinions.

So you don't like Bloodspawn, but you do like the nerfs to DOTs? You want defense and offense both nerfed?

Urzigurumash

Like others have pointed out OP, nobody is going to look favorably on argument to nerf one of the oldest and most appreciated monster sets. Nerfing Bloodspawn won't push people to an uncommonly used Monster Set, they'd all switch to Troll King or Balorgh, so what, you nerf those? Then we're at a 5+5+Weapon Set meta. What then, nerf the Weapon Sets? You know about Asylum 2h right?

Urzigurumash

Buffs, not nerfs. Here's an easy one - buff the diamater of Spawn of Mephala's web so it can serve the role it's trying to serve. Here's another easy one - buff the damage of Tremorscale since Ransack lost so damage recently. Those are both alternatives that many people in Bloodspawn might consider if they were remotely effective.

OrderoftheDarkness

Urzigurumash wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Nonsense different from nonsensical. Although my English is bad.

It means the same to say "the facts are nonsense" as "the facts are nonsensical". It is slightly more precise to say nonsensical rather than nonsense, from a certain point of view facts cannot be nonsense, but may share characteristics with nonsense, such as defying reason or logic. My point was you described what he had posted as facts, I think you meant to say they are opinions.

So you don't like Bloodspawn, but you do like the nerfs to DOTs? You want defense and offense both nerfed?

I understood you, I corrected.
I use Blood spawn myself. I think the quick accumulation of Ult is what prevents people from using the other kits they want to try. Better to use 2 times the ult than once correctly? I do not want a complete nerf to this good set, my idea was to reduce the recovery points of Ult gen.

Urzigurumash

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I do not want a complete nerf to this good set, my idea was to reduce the recovery points of Ult gen.

Run around a public dungeon in just 1 of the following at a time: Bloodspawn, Champion of the Hist, Werewolf Hide, Dead Water's Guile, Asylum 2h. I promise you will not be so convinced that Bloodspawn is uniquely OP.

To me it sounds like your issue is more that Ultimates are OP, which is absolutely true, but a fundamental aspect of the game design.

OrderoftheDarkness

Urzigurumash wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I do not want a complete nerf to this good set, my idea was to reduce the recovery points of Ult gen.

To me it sounds like your issue is more that Ultimates are OP, which is absolutely true, but a fundamental aspect of the game design.

Here you are exaggerating. I myself use a very strong Ult I have no problem with this.
You know what you're talking about, it's nice to talk. I have no desire to destroy the monster set, I just shared my observations.

Urzigurumash

There are counters to Ult Gen. Just a few but they exist.

OrderoftheDarkness

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Buffs, not nerfs. Here's an easy one - buff the diamater of Spawn of Mephala's web so it can serve the role it's trying to serve. Here's another easy one - buff the damage of Tremorscale since Ransack lost so damage recently. Those are both alternatives that many people in Bloodspawn might consider if they were remotely effective.

It will be excellent, I will only be glad. You have real suggestions.

Urzigurumash

Everybody wants Monster Set diversity, but nerfing Bloodspawn one iota is not the answer OP, it would have the opposite effect. It doesn't outperform the other 2 piece Ult Gen set or any of the 5 piece ones. The Resistance buff is strong but you have to divide its amount by the actual uptime to get the effective Resistance it gives.

Urzigurumash

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

You know what you're talking about, it's nice to talk. I have no desire to destroy the monster set, I just shared my observations.

I understand, all thoughts are to be shared here. Come up with some improvements to unused Monster Sets and maybe the devs will listen.

If they're reading please buff the size of Spawn of Mephala's web, it could actually serve some sort of CC purpose in PvP this way

OrderoftheDarkness

Urzigurumash wrote: »

There are counters to Ult Gen. Just a few but they exist.

Yes, I know, but it's very rare

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Everybody wants Monster Set diversity, but nerfing Bloodspawn one iota is not the answer OP, it would have the opposite effect. It doesn't outperform the other 2 piece Ult Gen set or any of the 5 piece ones. The Resistance buff is strong but you have to divide its amount by the actual uptime to get the effective Resistance it gives.

You're right. But as times Blood spawn surpasses other sets for ult gen precisely a large number of points. This is my opinion I do not pretend to be true. The Resistance buff works great.

OrderoftheDarkness

Urzigurumash wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

You know what you're talking about, it's nice to talk. I have no desire to destroy the monster set, I just shared my observations.

I understand, all thoughts are to be shared here. Come up with some improvements to unused Monster Sets and maybe the devs will listen.

If they're reading please buff the size of Spawn of Mephala's web, it could actually serve some sort of CC purpose in PvP this way

You're right. Spawn of Mephala's web can be made like Thurvokun on extension.

jcm2606

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

How many people so much and opinion. In my experience, sometimes OP limits the potential of other things. Therefore, a nerf is a kind of buff. You see what the difference is, I proposed a concrete proposal and you just have a lyrical digression.
I repeat, fourteen is a very large number. Reducing this number will not hit the BS as a whole.
P. S.I think you first need to make an offer as possible to buff other sets and at what scale even if your offer is ignored, but I agree with you I'd like to see buff other sets.

Word salad.

Your whole topic about measuring dot is word salad. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/496837/youve-still-completely-missed-the-mark-on-dot-damage/p1. It's just a veiled salad where are you trying to show yourself smart and knowledgeable. It can even be called trolling through screenshots. The opinion that you write there, I have not heard such nonsense for a long time. You trying to compare a passive playing style with an active.

When you resort to combing through another commenter's posts, picking out examples that are easily 100x better than anything in this thread, and then throwing cheap insults at them, you know you've lost.

OrderoftheDarkness

jcm2606 wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

How many people so much and opinion. In my experience, sometimes OP limits the potential of other things. Therefore, a nerf is a kind of buff. You see what the difference is, I proposed a concrete proposal and you just have a lyrical digression.
I repeat, fourteen is a very large number. Reducing this number will not hit the BS as a whole.
P. S.I think you first need to make an offer as possible to buff other sets and at what scale even if your offer is ignored, but I agree with you I'd like to see buff other sets.

Word salad.

Your whole topic about measuring dot is word salad. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/496837/youve-still-completely-missed-the-mark-on-dot-damage/p1. It's just a veiled salad where are you trying to show yourself smart and knowledgeable. It can even be called trolling through screenshots. The opinion that you write there, I have not heard such nonsense for a long time. You trying to compare a passive playing style with an active.

When you resort to combing through another commenter's posts, picking out examples that are easily 100x better than anything in this thread, and then throwing cheap insults at them, you know you've lost.

If you like this topic I do not mind. I can't agree with your assessment of the topics according to your interests.I repeat to compare passive game style which is an addition to the active, you need more than personal interest. No matter how clever the reasoning may seem.
I am not trying to play games on the forum. I'm not interested in winning or losing

Sarousse

The problem with Bloodspawn is that nearly no other monster helm can really compete with it in PvP.

I love this set so much but sometimes I'd like to have other options of the same level.

Zer0_CooL

Vapirko wrote: »

Ahh the day they come for Bloodspawn. I knew it would arrive I just didn’t know when. I always figure that this day would herald the true beginning of the end for ESO. I think PvP in this game is almost entirely devoid of anyone who cares to learn the game anymore. It’s inundated with people who just want to be carried.

Thats the generation minecraft. Everything that is harder than pickaxing some pixel blocks is overstaining.

jcm2606

Sarousse wrote: »

The problem with Bloodspawn is that nearly no other monster helm can really compete with it in PvP.

I love this set so much but sometimes I'd like to have other options of the same level.

Buff the other monster sets, then. Most offensive monster sets (besides Skoria and Balorgh) are either too telegraphed, too inconsistent, or too underpowered. Most defensive monster sets (besides Bloodspawn obviously, Troll King, and maybe Chudan on magsorc) are either too situational, too inconsistent, or too underpowered.

When all other alternatives are barely scraping the bottom of the barrel, the solution to improving build diversity is not to nerf the remaining good alternatives. Nerfing a good alternative to a garbage set/skill/mechanic doesn't make that garbage set/skill/mechanic any less garbage. When is the community and Zenimax gonna get this through their thick skulls?

EDIT: To raise a question, would you rather be playing a game where every option is good, and it's hard to pick one because they're all so good, or would you rather be playing a game where every option is garbage, and picking an option is as easy as picking the least garbage one?

If you want the former, nerfing everything that's good just to open up options to everything else that's bad is not the solution. Buffing everything that's bad to the power level of the one good option, then maybe slightly bringing everything down in line if the good option was indeed overperforming, is the solution to that.

OrderoftheDarkness

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ahh the day they come for Bloodspawn. I knew it would arrive I just didn’t know when. I always figure that this day would herald the true beginning of the end for ESO. I think PvP in this game is almost entirely devoid of anyone who cares to learn the game anymore. It’s inundated with people who just want to be carried.

Thats the generation minecraft. Everything that is harder than pickaxing some pixel blocks is overstaining.

I was introduced to games as a kid with warcraft 2. I know that there is such word maincraft but not never his not saw. You draw wrong conclusions if you are also against certain corrections made by developers, I understand why they do not listen to a certain part of the community.
If you're interested in my gaming experience and my understanding of a causal buff / nerf. In the old days of the Lich King, I had a high PvP rating. Before returning to ESO, I played GW2, and there I was a Rev player with plat 3 / leg 1.
I tried ESO before the advent of Warden.I stopped playing because of what was here before, and now people write that the nerf is bad. I returned before the release of Elsweyr in my eyes the game has grown today compared to what I saw before.
I can refuse my words about Bloodspawn, I was just trying to say not biased who uses this set too.

Vapirko

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ahh the day they come for Bloodspawn. I knew it would arrive I just didn’t know when. I always figure that this day would herald the true beginning of the end for ESO. I think PvP in this game is almost entirely devoid of anyone who cares to learn the game anymore. It’s inundated with people who just want to be carried.

Thats the generation minecraft. Everything that is harder than pickaxing some pixel blocks is overstaining.

I was introduced to games as a kid with warcraft 2. I know that there is such word maincraft but not never his not saw. You draw wrong conclusions if you are also against certain corrections made by developers, I understand why they do not listen to a certain part of the community.
If you're interested in my gaming experience and my understanding of a causal buff / nerf. In the old days of the Lich King, I had a high PvP rating. Before returning to ESO, I played GW2, and there was a Rev player with plat 3 / leg 1.
I tried ESO before the advent of Warden. I stopped playing because of what was here before, and now people write that nerf is bad. I returned before the release of Elsweyr in my eyes the game has grown today compared to what I saw before.
I can refuse my words about Bloodspawn, I was just trying to say the open mind of the person who uses this set too.

This set is one of the most well designed and balanced in the game. It is one of the last good sets for solo and small scale players that does nothing for zerglings. If you’ve missed that much of this game you don’t really have a good perception of what needs adjusting.

Skoomah

I’m tired of having to come onto the forums to mitigate the cries for nerfs, just for ZOS to nerf stuff anyways...

OrderoftheDarkness

Vapirko wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ahh the day they come for Bloodspawn. I knew it would arrive I just didn’t know when. I always figure that this day would herald the true beginning of the end for ESO. I think PvP in this game is almost entirely devoid of anyone who cares to learn the game anymore. It’s inundated with people who just want to be carried.

Thats the generation minecraft. Everything that is harder than pickaxing some pixel blocks is overstaining.

I was introduced to games as a kid with warcraft 2. I know that there is such word maincraft but not never his not saw. You draw wrong conclusions if you are also against certain corrections made by developers, I understand why they do not listen to a certain part of the community.
If you're interested in my gaming experience and my understanding of a causal buff / nerf. In the old days of the Lich King, I had a high PvP rating. Before returning to ESO, I played GW2, and there was a Rev player with plat 3 / leg 1.
I tried ESO before the advent of Warden. I stopped playing because of what was here before, and now people write that nerf is bad. I returned before the release of Elsweyr in my eyes the game has grown today compared to what I saw before.
I can refuse my words about Bloodspawn, I was just trying to say the open mind of the person who uses this set too.

This set is one of the most well designed and balanced in the game. It is one of the last good sets for solo and small scale players that does nothing for zerglings. If you’ve missed that much of this game you don’t really have a good perception of what needs adjusting.

I had enough understanding of what I saw before and what I see now. Now I like the game a lot more.
This post does not apply to Blood spawn.

OrderoftheDarkness

jcm2606 wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

The problem with Bloodspawn is that nearly no other monster helm can really compete with it in PvP.

I love this set so much but sometimes I'd like to have other options of the same level.

Buff the other monster sets, then. Most offensive monster sets (besides Skoria and Balorgh) are either too telegraphed, too inconsistent, or too underpowered. Most defensive monster sets (besides Bloodspawn obviously, Troll King, and maybe Chudan on magsorc) are either too situational, too inconsistent, or too underpowered.

When all other alternatives are barely scraping the bottom of the barrel, the solution to improving build diversity is not to nerf the remaining good alternatives. Nerfing a good alternative to a garbage set/skill/mechanic doesn't make that garbage set/skill/mechanic any less garbage. When is the community and Zenimax gonna get this through their thick skulls?

EDIT: To raise a question, would you rather be playing a game where every option is good, and it's hard to pick one because they're all so good, or would you rather be playing a game where every option is garbage, and picking an option is as easy as picking the least garbage one?

If you want the former, nerfing everything that's good just to open up options to everything else that's bad is not the solution. Buffing everything that's bad to the power level of the one good option, then maybe slightly bringing everything down in line if the good option was indeed overperforming, is the solution to that.

I agree with you here. Suppose there is a set of which fully suited Necro thematically and mechanically. I would like to see similar sets for other classes which will guide and reinforce class identity.

Moonsorrow

Skoomah wrote: »

I’m tired of having to come onto the forums to mitigate the cries for nerfs, just for ZOS to nerf stuff anyways...

This.

Been saying it a lot the last year.. it gets tiresome.

And always now in the game when talking with friends we talk about earlier times when the pvp felt more fun and balanced (ignore the trolls and people who say their class is always the worst even when everyone is playing it as the fotm around them), to this.. classes have lost a lot of their flavor, things starting to feel boring, because nerfing everything does not give more options and choices on how to play and build, but fewer and fewer viable/competitive/fun setups.

Because of the endless nerfing. Even for things that been here and used for YEARS are suddenly a problem to some.

Fun facts about nerflings:

1. They often do the "I am a Magsorc main, but i think we need to nerf sorc they are op" type of act.

2. The more there been nerfs lately (to small scalers, guild groups, 1vXers) the more they say they like the pvp now better than ever before, but.. "just needs to still nerf X, x and X..".

3. They say pvp has more population than ever, even the campaigns are mostly dead outside primetime, bg queues going really bad and most often you meet the same few people (yes yes mmr, but you know what i mean bois and girls).

4. They like high hp, like 40k+ and using sieges. I observed from sneak 4 EP players with such HP using several sieges to take a resource. Not joking. There were no human players. Just npc enemies and they sieged lumbermill to get it because only damage they have is from siege weapons. One of them was a known nerf poster.

5. They carry the power of the siege and the endless nerf posts, sort of as a spell that destroys the game slowly but empowers them as long as it lasts since they are the only people who like to play game like that. They often use Jesus Beam and other executes and spam them from 100% hp.

6. They cannot understand that nerfing set X does not make other options stronger, what can bring a new stronger option is new DLC from ZOS that brings in new strong monster sets (until they get nerfed), but the nerflings cannot get the helmets because they cannot get through those dungeons in Vet difficulty to get them, leaving them demanding the helmet nerfed instantly for others because it might take 2 years to come to Golden for them to buy with PVDoor AP.

7. _____________________ <--fill the lucky 7 with your own true story.



Think that is enough for this time. Have a good weekend everyone!

Kadoozy

I remember back when nobody thought bloodspawn was OP, because we had actual OP sets that got nerfed. Now people think bloodspawn is OP because we have such ***, nerfed sets. How times change.

Hopefully people can see why everything above is a bad thing and realize they need to stop calling for nerfs.

OrderoftheDarkness

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

I’m tired of having to come onto the forums to mitigate the cries for nerfs, just for ZOS to nerf stuff anyways...

This.

Been saying it a lot the last year.. it gets tiresome.

And always now in the game when talking with friends we talk about earlier times when the pvp felt more fun and balanced (ignore the trolls and people who say their class is always the worst even when everyone is playing it as the fotm around them), to this.. classes have lost a lot of their flavor, things starting to feel boring, because nerfing everything does not give more options and choices on how to play and build, but fewer and fewer viable/competitive/fun setups.

Because of the endless nerfing. Even for things that been here and used for YEARS are suddenly a problem to some.

Fun facts about nerflings:

1. They often do the "I am a Magsorc main, but i think we need to nerf sorc they are op" type of act.

2. The more there been nerfs lately (to small scalers, guild groups, 1vXers) the more they say they like the pvp now better than ever before, but.. "just needs to still nerf X, x and X..".

3. They say pvp has more population than ever, even the campaigns are mostly dead outside primetime, bg queues going really bad and most often you meet the same few people (yes yes mmr, but you know what i mean bois and girls).

4. They like high hp, like 40k+ and using sieges. I observed from sneak 4 EP players with such HP using several sieges to take a resource. Not joking. There were no human players. Just npc enemies and they sieged lumbermill to get it because only damage they have is from siege weapons. One of them was a known nerf poster.

5. They carry the power of the siege and the endless nerf posts, sort of as a spell that destroys the game slowly but empowers them as long as it lasts since they are the only people who like to play game like that. They often use Jesus Beam and other executes and spam them from 100% hp.

6. They cannot understand that nerfing set X does not make other options stronger, what can bring a new stronger option is new DLC from ZOS that brings in new strong monster sets (until they get nerfed), but the nerflings cannot get the helmets because they cannot get through those dungeons in Vet difficulty to get them, leaving them demanding the helmet nerfed instantly for others because it might take 2 years to come to Golden for them to buy with PVDoor AP.

7. _____________________ <--fill the lucky 7 with your own true story.



Think that is enough for this time. Have a good weekend everyone!

This effect is as old as the world. People always don’t like something. For example, WoW Lich players will not like the cataclysm. Legion players will not like the BFA. I was not impressed with the old ESO. One reason was the small number of classes.
4 classes are fighting among themselves one kind of balance. 5 classes are fighting among themselves another kind of balance. 6 classes is a new kind of balance. Apparently you want to fight between 4 classes.

jcm2606

Kadoozy wrote: »

I remember back when nobody thought bloodspawn was OP, because we had actual OP sets that got nerfed. Now people think bloodspawn is OP because we have such ***, nerfed sets. How times change.

Hopefully people can see why everything above is a bad thing and realize they need to stop calling for nerfs.

They just need perspective. It's understandable to think that Bloodspawn is OP, if all you've used is Bloodspawn, or any of the underperforming sets, but haven't used the other at any point in your ESO career, as you don't have any experience to compare them with. By playing a good amount on both, you get a feel for how both work, and can make a much more complete comparison.

Donny_Vito

This is what people started saying about Earthgore and then PvE healers lost one of their best monster sets. Don't ruin this for PvPers.

LiquidPony

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

How many people so much and opinion. In my experience, sometimes OP limits the potential of other things. Therefore, a nerf is a kind of buff. You see what the difference is, I proposed a concrete proposal and you just have a lyrical digression.
I repeat, fourteen is a very large number. Reducing this number will not hit the BS as a whole.
P. S.I think you first need to make an offer as possible to buff other sets and at what scale even if your offer is ignored, but I agree with you I'd like to see buff other sets.

Word salad.

Your whole topic about measuring dot is word salad. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/496837/youve-still-completely-missed-the-mark-on-dot-damage/p1. It's just a veiled salad where are you trying to show yourself smart and knowledgeable. It can even be called trolling through screenshots. The opinion that you write there, I have not heard such nonsense for a long time. You trying to compare a passive playing style with an active.

You don't even know what "word salad" means and you respond with more word salad.

Why don't you go over to that thread and demonstrate what's wrong with it, then?

Maybe you can grab some parses from v5.2.5 and show me how useful DoTs really are.

I'll just leave this here:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389813886993563660/637024343091707924/unknown.png

OrderoftheDarkness

LiquidPony wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

How many people so much and opinion. In my experience, sometimes OP limits the potential of other things. Therefore, a nerf is a kind of buff. You see what the difference is, I proposed a concrete proposal and you just have a lyrical digression.
I repeat, fourteen is a very large number. Reducing this number will not hit the BS as a whole.
P. S.I think you first need to make an offer as possible to buff other sets and at what scale even if your offer is ignored, but I agree with you I'd like to see buff other sets.

Word salad.

Your whole topic about measuring dot is word salad. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/496837/youve-still-completely-missed-the-mark-on-dot-damage/p1. It's just a veiled salad where are you trying to show yourself smart and knowledgeable. It can even be called trolling through screenshots. The opinion that you write there, I have not heard such nonsense for a long time. You trying to compare a passive playing style with an active.

You don't even know what "word salad" means and you respond with more word salad.

Why don't you go over to that thread and demonstrate what's wrong with it, then?

Maybe you can grab some parses from v5.2.5 and show me how useful DoTs really are.

I'll just leave this here:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389813886993563660/637024343091707924/unknown.png

Your first message in your topic for me is all a word salad (your style of wordplay is also a kind of salad). Sorry, this is not interesting if you prefer answers of this format.
P. S. I will tell you in simple language. You suggested making the passive part of the game (for some it’s class identity) stronger than the active part.

Girl_Number8

This should be mandatory for all Nerflings....