Incap Strike

Lyar09

Seriously this ability is extremely overpowered. It is making stamina nightblade over the top again. Does way too much damage.Oh and worst of all it is the lowest costing ulti in the game. I'm fine with the knock down change but come on with this damage change. What were you thinking zos?

Y'all have fun with this argument. Instead of it being about a single ability it has turned into a class balance war. I'm sure nothing will get changed and people will complain about it (to include those defending it). Enjoy your arguing folks I appreciate some of the feedback.

HoloYoitsu

Lyar09 wrote: »

Seriously this ability is extremely overpowered. It is making stamina nightblade over the top again. Does way too much damage.Oh and worst of all it is the lowest costing ulti in the game. I'm fine with the knock down change but come on with this damage change. What were you thinking zos?

They weren't.

Spliffo

What numbers are people hitting for with it now?

oibam

It is a single target ulti, so dmg has to be high.

HoloYoitsu

oibam wrote: »

It is a single target ulti, so dmg has to be high.

Spliffo

16k seems reasonable. Magicka ults hit harder than that on live but they cost more not mentioning the guy that killed you would have had 10% more weapon damage for being in stealth and 20% empower from ambush. Again it seems on par with magicka builds now

Lyar09

16k seems reasonable? Are you out of your mind? for an ability that costs 50 ultimate???? come on dude....and its a heal defile. Just leave lmao that is far from reasonable

bowmanz607

Lyar09 wrote: »

16k seems reasonable? Are you out of your mind? for an ability that costs 50 ultimate???? come on dude....and its a heal defile. Just leave lmao that is far from reasonable

can hit this with mag build now but noone yells about that. not to mention this player likely is a gank build that had empower buff up. Wont be hit with that every time. Especially with everyone having access to shields now.

Spliffo

The guy got gank so he got a fully buffed ult and I'm guessing he had no defences up and probably no impen on his gear. It's reasonable. If you guys don't want to be squishy and get hit for high damage skills then don't run a squishy build

bowmanz607

Spliffo wrote: »

The guy got gank so he got a fully buffed ult and I'm guessing he had no defences up and probably no impen on his gear. It's reasonable. If you guys don't want to be squishy and get hit for high damage skills then don't run a squishy build

this too

Vangy

1. Was it from stealth? Seems to me like an invis (buff up)>ambush + incap
2. Were you wearing impen? if yes, how many? Or what was your impen stat at?
3. Were you in 7 light? If no, what was your armour set up or what was your phy resist at?
4. Do you have at least 50 pts in phy resist and some in crit resist?

If you failed at too many of the above, getting hit by 16 is perfectly legit..... Considering non-ults like WB/frags hits for upwards of 12-14k on builds that are glass cannons.

Another comparison would be my leap tooltip vs actual damage. I have a tooltip of 22k leap... But I rarely ever get that kind of damage in PvP. Considering 50% damage reduction, combine with PvP imepn trait + phy resist it more often hits for under 10... I do occasionally see 14-17k hits. Most likely from low CP/badly geared players.

Lyar09

Okay explain this then. I have 15% mitigation from cp...8% damage mitigation with restoring focus...18k physical resist....and 2.3k crit resist and I get hit for 10k plus incap strikes. Most people dont mitigate damage anywhere near what I do and I still get ridiculously hard. This is not balance. The ability is fine as is with damage on live. I like the knock down mechanic now

DKsUnite

its really strong. Its too cheap for how much dmg it does imo and all the bonuses it gives.

kadar

What did they change? They allowed an Ult to scale off of of Mighty. You mean like.... Every other Ult has scaled off of Ele (Magicka CP) this whole time? The damage may be higher than it was but isn't this balance as far as Stamina vs. Magicka? Why shouldn't it scale off Mighty?

Spliffo

Ok well my vr2 stamblade hits 10k soul harvest currently on live so pretty much your mitigating their CP, tho if you have 2.3k crit resist i would expect to see it lower than that unless the stamblade is running the shadow but thats doubtful.

Brrrofski

I love how zos gave the already strongest stam class the best buffs this patch. DKs only got buffs if you use dots, stamplars got decent buffs I suppose and stam sorcs... Nothing. Absolutely nothing. ZOS are the ultimate trolls.

Lyar09

If you're going to scale Incap off of Mighty then allow my Cresant Sweep to scale as well. Incap is already hitting hard enough on live. Adding even more burst to stamina nightblade, on top of having stealth damage and stun isnt balance.

kadar

Killers Blade got the same "buff" as Incap Strike, which again was really just being brought up to par. Is that skill OP now too?

Vangy

Lyar09 wrote: »

Okay explain this then. I have 15% mitigation from cp...8% damage mitigation with restoring focus...18k physical resist....and 2.3k crit resist and I get hit for 10k plus incap strikes. Most people dont mitigate damage anywhere near what I do and I still get ridiculously hard. This is not balance. The ability is fine as is with damage on live. I like the knock down mechanic now

With that kind of mitigation you are just slightly less tanky compared to my stamDK. I run;

5/5 heavy mork with all impen + 2 engin. (1/1 for medium and light), total of around 2500-ish impen
I sit at about 20k physical resist.
I have ard 50 points in phy resist.

I get hit by WBs/Frags etc for 5-6k. I get hit by incap strike for ard 8-10k.... So you getting hit for 10 is normal no? We also have to consider stealth bonus because most Nbs always use ambush>incap in which case incap gets the empower and stealth buff. It is an ultimate so it needs to do more damage than frags and WB. Its hard to believe you are getting hit for more than 10k+ regularly with those kind of stats because im not experiencing the numbers you are... In some rare cases against maxed out CP players built as pure glass cannon gankblades but those are pretty rare. Most Nbs incap wont hit for those numbers against someone with pretty solid mitigation such as yourself.

silky_soft

Lyar09 wrote: »

16k seems reasonable? Are you out of your mind? for an ability that costs 50 ultimate???? come on dude....and its a heal defile. Just leave lmao that is far from reasonable

DKsUnite wrote: »

its really strong. Its too cheap for how much dmg it does imo and all the bonuses it gives.

So what do you rate overload light attack?

Overload can be cast multiple times, is not melee and it gives you a whole separate bar of skills you can use.

Lyar09

Killer's Blade is an execute and doesnt do anymore damage then executioner. So no, I dont have a problem with it. But you want to talk about balance when this isnt actually balance. Not every class has a scaleable class ultimate with Mighty. Now only DK and Nightblade do. Your argument of balance is null in my opinion.

Lyar09

Vangy wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

Okay explain this then. I have 15% mitigation from cp...8% damage mitigation with restoring focus...18k physical resist....and 2.3k crit resist and I get hit for 10k plus incap strikes. Most people dont mitigate damage anywhere near what I do and I still get ridiculously hard. This is not balance. The ability is fine as is with damage on live. I like the knock down mechanic now

With that kind of mitigation you are just slightly less tanky compared to my stamDK. I run;

5/5 heavy mork with all impen + 2 engin. (1/1 for medium and light), total of around 2500-ish impen
I sit at about 20k physical resist.
I have ard 50 points in phy resist.

I get hit by WBs/Frags etc for 5-6k. I get hit by incap strike for ard 8-10k.... So you getting hit for 10 is normal no? We also have to consider stealth bonus because most Nbs always use ambush>incap in which case incap gets the empower and stealth buff. It is an ultimate so it needs to do more damage than frags and WB. Its hard to believe you are getting hit for more than 10k+ regularly with those kind of stats because im not experiencing the numbers you are... In some rare cases against maxed out CP players built as pure glass cannon gankblades but those are pretty rare. Most Nbs incap wont hit for those numbers against someone with pretty solid mitigation such as yourself.

I wear 7/7 medium. So yeah, that ultimate shouldnt be hitting as high as it does with how much it costs.

silky_soft wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

16k seems reasonable? Are you out of your mind? for an ability that costs 50 ultimate???? come on dude....and its a heal defile. Just leave lmao that is far from reasonable

DKsUnite wrote: »

its really strong. Its too cheap for how much dmg it does imo and all the bonuses it gives.

So what do you rate overload light attack?

Overload can be cast multiple times, is not melee and it gives you a whole separate bar of skills you can use.

I think that should be adjusted as well but I'm more focused on new changes made. This is the PTS, not PVP section. Nothing has changed with overload.

Vangy

Lyar09 wrote: »

Killer's Blade is an execute and doesnt do anymore damage then executioner. So no, I dont have a problem with it. But you want to talk about balance when this isnt actually balance. Not every class has a scaleable class ultimate with Mighty. Now only DK and Nightblade do. Your argument of balance is null in my opinion.

Leap is pretty much a joke now. Ive lost around 30% damage with leap even though no change was accounted for it with TG. Ive been told by a few that now it scales more off max resource more than weapon damage..... Most stam DKs run drinks.. SO leap is pretty gimpy. Ive been favouring DB of smiting and corrosive armour over leap recently... Hopefully with DB I can use the DB effectively since its physical damage.

Ill admit Incap is pretty strong but I dont feel its overpowered. Just a little stronger than expected is all. I dont think the blame lies on incap. Its the combination of stealth hit buff comboed with the empower buff from ambush that is buffing incap to such high levels.

Lyar09

Vangy wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

Killer's Blade is an execute and doesnt do anymore damage then executioner. So no, I dont have a problem with it. But you want to talk about balance when this isnt actually balance. Not every class has a scaleable class ultimate with Mighty. Now only DK and Nightblade do. Your argument of balance is null in my opinion.

Leap is pretty much a joke now. Ive lost around 30% damage with leap even though no change was accounted for it with TG. Ive been told by a few that now it scales more off max resource more than weapon damage..... Most stam DKs run drinks.. SO leap is pretty gimpy. Ive been favouring DB of smiting and corrosive armour over leap recently... Hopefully with DB I can use the DB effectively since its physical damage.

Ill admit Incap is pretty strong but I dont feel its overpowered. Just a little stronger than expected is all.

Leap was hitting extremely hard. I think the general consenes of people would agree with that. I personally think stamina abilities we not performing 25% more than magicka when the new cp changes came to Hardy. I think it should be around 15% as most magicka abilities have a way higher tooltip damage compared to stamina. Im simply saying that Incap shouldnt hit as hard as it does for how little it cost. The same could go for overload but there hasnt been changes to that ability in a long time. The discussion of balance is flawed as not every class has this scaling with mighty option within the class. Nightblades will be able to use Incap as a main dps ability if it goes to live with the way it is now on dps. Nightblades generate ultimate really fast compared to other classes. I doubt change will come and I'm fairly confident people will complain way more about it that I am right now. I'm trying to prevent that.

WillhelmBlack

I know we all like arguing but it does actually hit a bit too hard for an attack you can occasionally weave in. It's insta-cast, too cheap and a heal de-buff. You don't even need to time one correctly as you just put it in to your burst combo or rotation.

Vangy

I can't decide on this yet... Need more time on PTS and need more NBs to gank me lol. Maybe by the end of the week I can see how hard this thing hits. Work been keeping me busy for the most part on weekdays.

silky_soft

Lyar09 wrote: »

*snip*
I think that should be adjusted as well but I'm more focused on new changes made. This is the PTS, not PVP section. Nothing has changed with overload.

Yeop you are right, overload is still op af, will continue and won't be changed just like incap.

HoloYoitsu

Brrrofski wrote: »

I love how zos gave the already strongest stam class the best buffs this patch. DKs only got buffs if you use dots, stamplars got decent buffs I suppose and stam sorcs... Nothing. Absolutely nothing. ZOS are the ultimate trolls.

They didn't appreciate Fengrush's reviews.

Vangy

silky_soft wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

*snip*
I think that should be adjusted as well but I'm more focused on new changes made. This is the PTS, not PVP section. Nothing has changed with overload.

Yeop you are right, overload is still op af, will continue and won't be changed just like incap.

TT.TT I just want leap to be good again... Damn sorcs hitting for 15k light attacks and Nbs now hitting for 10k+ while my leap barely breaks the 10k mark zzzzzz. And my DPS build runs like 4.4k weapon damage..

Joy_Division

silky_soft wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

*snip*
I think that should be adjusted as well but I'm more focused on new changes made. This is the PTS, not PVP section. Nothing has changed with overload.

Yeop you are right, overload is still op af, will continue and won't be changed just like incap.

Overload is much easier to defend against than Incapacitating strike and it neither stuns me nor heal debuffs me.

Just because it is single target doesn't mean a 50 cost ultimate should do that much damage plus those debuffs.

Ariades_swe

Gotta love all nbs defending this. Better they adjust it now than overnerf it to uselesness next dlc in typical @Wrobel fashion.