Add More Music + Put In Cutscenes --> More Fun/Immersion + Epic Boss Fights

tinythinker

Copied and pasted from another thread on a different topic to give the issue it's own thread...

tinythinker: In fact, it also occurred to me last night (but I didn't bother with a write-up) just how depressing a lot of the settings are, even for a world facing a Planemeld and living in a fractured Empire in the midst of a civil war. Even the celebrations in Auridon and Eastmarch are lacking, largely because there is no festive/light/merry music when you go to the few places having a good time. And somehow if there were I'm betting it would be the same song over and over throughout Tamriel. Which then got me to thinking they need more types of music and more variety of music, like that sad wistful tune they recently added to Dwemer ruins. Music that is wistful but not necessarily sad, wistful and sad, inspirational that soars, inspirational that rocks, myserious inviting, mysterious unsettling, etc, etc. After all music has a big impact on player experiences in video games. And there are so few trials, still no raids, no "part two" of many dungeons, which could each have unique pieces (if not whole songs, but each big boss in the game should have its own song), and... oh, sorry. That line of though got away from me there. But there are many cultures in the game, so they can afford to branch out from the musical style they started with and... sorry, still on that line of thought.

dodgehopper_ESO: You've certainly added a lot of interesting suggestions in the past, and I definitely agree with you on the music. I wish they could just steal some music right out of the old TES games. I'd love to hear the old Morrowind tunes when I'm in Dunmer lands. It would be great to hear some kind of argonian tribal esthetic in those lands.

tinythinker: Argonian music? Definitely. Some music from Morrowind would be welcome as well. I kind of feel like they borrowed a good deal from Skryrim in terms of musical aesthetic, which is fine, but they have 10 provinces and many cultures/subcultures in Tamriel and could use that as justification for going nuts with new musical styles, instruments, thematic elements, etc.

Music is often underrated when players think of video games, movies, etc, but the background music, incidental music, major scores, etc can really make a fictional world come alive and give it depth it would otherwise lack. Oh, oh, I forgot, cutscenes. Not used gratuitously every minute, but for boss battles, major Main Quest turning points, etc, they can be very effective. Epic cutscene-->unique boss music queues up-->IT'S ON!!!

Discuss

tinythinker

Oh, I forgot to add this last night as clarification and food for thought:

Unique music requested:

-various mood pieces for each Province/race and particular cultural settings or local events like the party in Windhelm (have a little of this kind of thing, but not much, the new Dwemer ruins tune was a nice touch)
-various mood pieces for all of Tamriel (already exists and this is currently the largest musical category but need more with greater variety)
-various types of incidental music (already have some basic "fight is coming" music and a few other similar examples, need a lot more)
-unique song/theme for each group dungeon
-unique theme/additional element for each group dungeon final boss (can simple be a special riff that is an extension of/fits into the unique piece for that dungeon)
-unique song/theme for each trial
-unique theme/additional element for each trial final boss (can simple be a special riff that is an extension of/fits into the unique piece for that dungeon)
-unique song/theme for each arena
-unique theme/additional element for each arena final boss (can simple be a special riff that is an extension of/fits into the unique piece for that dungeon)
-unique song/theme for each raid (when they are added)
-unique theme/additional element for each raid final boss (can simple be a special riff that is an extension of/fits into the unique piece for that dungeon)

Cutscenes requested, higher priority:

-handful of pivotal/emotional moments in the Main Story with the Prophet and his companions
-for each final boss of a trial, arena, or raid

Custscenes requested, lower priority:

-for each final boss of the vet version of a group dungeon
-when you first enter the major city of zone
-when you first visit Cyrodiil
-after defeating an enemy team in instanced PvP (when it is added)

Note: Yes, many events have a time element, so, as long as a party member is in the cutscene the counter is stopped. Cutscenes could be canceled with the escape key (or game pad equivalent) and even toggled off in the game play options, so there is no worry about these interfering with hardcore players wanting to get achievements or earn a spot on the leaderboards.

dodgehopper_ESO

Before I talk about music I just wanted to say something about Cut Scenes. I think the reason this game doesn't use many cut scenes apart from the introduction, is that previous TES games really don't use cut scenes apart from their introduction. I think it is part of their style that they want the game to be about the immersion of the world, and the notion that you don't lose control of your character. It might be a very intentional style choice of theirs. I do think the right cut scenes delivered at the right moment could be great though. Introductions to new areas, new individuals (like King Kurog) might have been alright.

On the matter of music I'd really love a lot of things.
1. All Dunmer lands could use anything from Morrowind. It goes without saying.
2. I'd love some middle eastern or african music in Hammerfell.
3. Craglorn for whatever reason I feel could use big drums and horns. Cyrodiil might be a good pick for this. I'm picturing something like you might hear in a movie involving Romans and war.
4. Argonian lands - I'd love to hear the sound of clinking wooden wind chimes, wooden flutes, pan pipes, possibly some wooden drums or even sounds involving the water. I think a hint of something alien needs to be there, but I don't know what that would be. I'm not a musician but I think they could come up with something awesome.
5. Khajiit lands - asiatic influences make sense here. Northeast Africa, the Middle East, India, Southeast Asia all have musical influences that I think seem very fitting for the Khajiit.
6. Imperials - Roman themes, perhaps even Italian styled folk music for the villages.
7. Nords - I think Wagner styled themes are great. Something forceful like we heard in Skyrim. In fact nicking some of the music out of skyrim for this purpose would be great. I'd love to hear the signature TES song with different musical styles in different maps.
8. Bretons - Celtic styles? French Styles? English styles?
9. Orcs - I feel like a mixture of Japanese and native american music would work great for these guys. Taiko drums, Tribal chanting (The Orc dance even looks like a native american dance) seem appropriate.
10. Altmer - If any race deserves a harpsichord it is these guys. I'm not really sure that would be fitting and likely would not fit the era. Whatever musical style they use, it should definitely have an air of pomp with a dash of snootiness.
11. Bosmer - Jolly folk music.

These are just some of my thoughts. If I hear something I think might sound particularly great here, I'll try to come back and edit this. I realize its just a brainstorm, but its a fun one anyway. I agree with you @tinythinker that music can really add to a game.

itaybrodskyb16_ESO

Completely agree! Ive made a post on this topic as well. I think music is really important to make every area feel unique. It's quite dull and even frustrating to have the same pieces playing over and over again in every zone. Great ideas in this post. One thing that I just can't understand is why doesn't ZoS adress this. They have someone working one the music in the game anyways. It would be amazing to just have a whole dlc that is specifically for new music (No actual content).

tinythinker

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Before I talk about music I just wanted to say something about Cut Scenes. I think the reason this game doesn't use many cut scenes apart from the introduction, is that previous TES games really don't use cut scenes apart from their introduction. I think it is part of their style that they want the game to be about the immersion of the world, and the notion that you don't lose control of your character. It might be a very intentional style choice of theirs. I do think the right cut scenes delivered at the right moment could be great though. Introductions to new areas, new individuals (like King Kurog) might have been alright.

Yeah, but they do lots of things that weren't in other Elder Scrolls games because it is an MMO. That's why I specifically listed a very limited number of occasions for them and mentioned being able to <escape> them or toggle them off. Can't hurt to suggest it.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

On the matter of music I'd really love a lot of things.
1. All Dunmer lands could use anything from Morrowind. It goes without saying.
2. I'd love some middle eastern or african music in Hammerfell.
3. Craglorn for whatever reason I feel could use big drums and horns. Cyrodiil might be a good pick for this. I'm picturing something like you might hear in a movie involving Romans and war.
4. Argonian lands - I'd love to hear the sound of clinking wooden wind chimes, wooden flutes, pan pipes, possibly some wooden drums or even sounds involving the water. I think a hint of something alien needs to be there, but I don't know what that would be. I'm not a musician but I think they could come up with something awesome.
5. Khajiit lands - asiatic influences make sense here. Northeast Africa, the Middle East, India, Southeast Asia all have musical influences that I think seem very fitting for the Khajiit.
6. Imperials - Roman themes, perhaps even Italian styled folk music for the villages.
7. Nords - I think Wagner styled themes are great. Something forceful like we heard in Skyrim. In fact nicking some of the music out of skyrim for this purpose would be great. I'd love to hear the signature TES song with different musical styles in different maps.
8. Bretons - Celtic styles? French Styles? English styles?
9. Orcs - I feel like a mixture of Japanese and native american music would work great for these guys. Taiko drums, Tribal chanting (The Orc dance even looks like a native american dance) seem appropriate.
10. Altmer - If any race deserves a harpsichord it is these guys. I'm not really sure that would be fitting and likely would not fit the era. Whatever musical style they use, it should definitely have an air of pomp with a dash of snootiness.
11. Bosmer - Jolly folk music.

These are just some of my thoughts. If I hear something I think might sound particularly great here, I'll try to come back and edit this. I realize its just a brainstorm, but its a fun one anyway. I agree with you @tinythinker that music can really add to a game.

Great suggestions. Maybe someone can pass them along to Brad Derrick and Rik Schaffer, and even Jeremy Soule if he's available, by way of Rich Lambert.

I had the same thoughts for Argonians, but not sure what the alien thing would be. Maybe something with a clever use of a synthesizer tuned to something haunting.

As for particular instruments, more string instruments (harp, cello, viola, violin, etc) would be nice among popular Western instruments, and while some piano work would be nice, it would have to be done just right to fit the feel of the Elder Scrolls universe. Adding in a harpsichord or dulcimer would be easier, and also big drums. Oh, and that thing that sounds like a more serious cousin of the xylophone you hear in some jazz pieces. On the rarer/more multi-cultural side, well, the sky's the limit. And for any type of music hums/yells/held notes/non-word singing (name?)/etc would be great. So many interesting options.

tinythinker

itaybrodskyb16_ESO wrote: »

Completely agree! Ive made a post on this topic as well. I think music is really important to make every area feel unique. It's quite dull and even frustrating to have the same pieces playing over and over again in every zone. Great ideas in this post.

If I had seen your post I would have tried to support it, but yeah, music is a big thing and one of the many, many things in ESO were what exists now is OK, but it needs to be broader and deeper, to be more expansive and diverse than the content currently available.

Lysette

I am not fond of cut scenes, they take me more out of immersion than they would help with it. suddenly it feels like watching a movie, where I am the observer - but immersion is about being there, not to be the observer who is watching the protagonist doing things, but about doing that stuff yourself. I want to feel as I would be there. A cut scene pulls me out of this immersion.

Edit: I can see that this is less of a problem for people who play mainly in 3rd person, but I am using mainly 1st person, there it makes a difference.

tinythinker

Lysette wrote: »

I am not fond of cut scenes, they take me more out of immersion than they would help with it. suddenly it feels like watching a movie, where I am the observer - but immersion is about being there, not to be the observer who is watching the protagonist doing things, but about doing that stuff yourself. I want to feel as I would be there. A cut scene pulls me out of this immersion.

Edit: I can see that this is less of a problem for people who play mainly in 3rd person, but I am using mainly 1st person, there it makes a difference.

That's why I want to also have it be a toggled feature in the game options and only have cutscenes in a very, very limited number of circumstances, with a good number of those only running when you first trigger it (i.e. visiting certain cities for the first time). This way, those who would find such brief, artistically beautiful scenes inspiring could, well, get pumped by them, and those, such as yourself, who would find them to be tiresome or intrusive or distracting, would never have to see a single one.

And like the intro trailer, once you've unlocked them you could go back and rewatch them again later. The city ones would be very short fly-over or sweeping panorma or both, whereas the Main Story and Final Boss(es) scenes would be a little more involved and serve to give a sense of just how big/amazing/terrible what comes next is going to be.