New Soundscapes: Argonian Edition

tinythinker

If you are interested in something other than threads on Update 1.6, how the Sorcerer class is being ruined, the endless F2P rumors, or whatever the current crisis is perceived to be, might I interest you in discussing possible future game content?

In July of 2014 I posted to these forums the following sentiment regarding music in ESO:

Don't get me wrong. The music they have now is great, but it gets recycled very frequently. I realize this might not be high on the priorities list for new content, but imagine the release over time via different updates of new rousing battle music for Cyrodiil. Of mood setting and culturally-based music for places such as Morrowind (hey, we've got some of that already, why not put it in?), or zones in Black Marsh such as Shadowfen, or the deserts of Alik'r?

A couple of months later, I again expressed a hope for:

engaging stories and art/music that flesh out a somewhat different (perhaps a more traditional or parochial) view of Argonian culture distinct from that which has been more heavily influenced by contact with Morrowind and Cyrodiil (i.e. what we see in Shadowfen)

Rather than talking vaguely about new music, then, I prefer to start with a particular example, in this case a particular cultural group, the Argonians, who are still slated to (someday) get a second zone, Murkmire.

But what kind of music should it be based on or influenced by? Since Argonians are based loosely on many indigenous, traditional cultures around the world, those cultures as well as approximations of the music of faded or long lost civilizations might be a good place to start.

Aboriginal culture in Australia and New Zealand for small-scale societies with a major nature/dream focus in their culture:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFGvNxBqYFI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr5Znx4cxKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qRRtuZZB-M

Indigenous cultures of the Americas, especially the Meso-American peoples, whose pyramids and reversion from mighty jungle empires to simpler village life was clearly a model for much of the Argonian presentation in ESO (but I threw in the Inca as well for good measure):

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7wsVDixW1k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQpA7E35wSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNS2kyMbtFs

Further afield, recreations or imaginings of the music of past Near Eastern cultures:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H8_13x3JaI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPEeY2aMa4c

And for a little more variety, some music from or inspire by cultures of East Asia:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKHXZr5RUas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCIaViwLa4Q

In another direction, some new age music that also evokes the past, dreams, and forgotten things:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN96n62DVJg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ-P2rjthGU

Argonian-themed music could borrow elements or draw inspiration for some, all, or none of these styles, but which ones (or possible combinations) seem to feel more "Argonian" to you than the others? Or do you have additional musical examples you think would be a better fit?

Thanks for reading, and especially for replying.

Roechacca

Argonians don't have elastic lips so they can't play didgeridoo . /Discuss

Ahdora

roechacca wrote: »

Argonians don't have elastic lips so they can't play didgeridoo . /Discuss

LMFAO.

Ah, man. I'm sorry, OP, I don't have much input on your idea, because I turn the music off. Except to say it's very well thought out and I hope, for the sake of those who care about this sort of thing, that it's considered.

tinythinker

roechacca wrote: »

Argonians don't have elastic lips so they can't play didgeridoo . /Discuss

Perhaps, but we can look at melodies, arrangements, and such as well as specific sounds or the instruments that make particular sounds. And if I'm not mistaken the /flute emote still works for Argonians, so I'm not sure that anatomy is the biggest concern for realism when it comes to the lizard-people.

Gyudan

Argonian slaves can do drums with their manacles and chains.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

I just want to put my two cents into this topic.

If it's one thing Wildstar blows ESO out of the water with it's the soundtrack. No, I'm not saying ESO's soundtrack is bad. It's really good, but if you're a slow-ass like me that takes FOREVER to finish zones it doesn't take long to get bored of the music. Imagine my surprise to find out the other alliances have the exact same music in their zone backgrounds, too.

In Wildstar each zone had its own theme. Something like Farside had incredible atmosphere thanks to the calming theme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_F1wwyMuE0

I've since turned all sounds in ESO off and have been running the Dragon Age: Inquisition soundtrack in the background. I'm not asking for this to be a priority by any means, but I certainly would like more music, more themes. I've been playing for so long that the ESO music is kind of boring now.

Roechacca

tinythinker wrote: »

show previous quotes

roechacca wrote: »

Argonians don't have elastic lips so they can't play didgeridoo . /Discuss

Perhaps, but we can look at melodies, arrangements, and such as well as specific sounds or the instruments that make particular sounds. And if I'm not mistaken the /flute emote still works for Argonians, so I'm not sure that anatomy is the biggest concern for realism when it comes to the lizard-people.

You've brought logic and irrefutable evidence to this debate . However I imagine lizard tongues are small and inefficient at wetting ones lips properly to make the hooting an buzzing sounds the didgeridoo requires .

WillhelmBlack

I've been thinking this since rumors of ES VI Argonia. What would Jeremy Soule do with the soundtrack? I think woodwind would suit Argonian culture but I think they're not the best instruments for them to play. Claws over fingerholes, Rigid mouths.

Maybe they have their own instruments that we just haven't seen yet.

Roechacca

All joking aside I like the OP's thread and musical choices . Great topic . I was just trying to be funny .

tinythinker

roechacca wrote: »

show previous quotes

tinythinker wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Argonians don't have elastic lips so they can't play didgeridoo . /Discuss

Perhaps, but we can look at melodies, arrangements, and such as well as specific sounds or the instruments that make particular sounds. And if I'm not mistaken the /flute emote still works for Argonians, so I'm not sure that anatomy is the biggest concern for realism when it comes to the lizard-people.

You've brought logic and irrefutable evidence to this debate . However I imagine lizard tongues are small and inefficient at wetting ones lips properly to make the hooting an buzzing sounds the didgeridoo requires .

Maybe that is why Neer (found near Murkater) talks about a fellow saxhleel she finds attractive by saying, "Now that's a lizard I could wrap my fingers around." Perhaps we can ask her what a scale-skin can or can't do with her tongue. Or we could simply find the lost edition of "The Lusty Argonian Maid", which is rumored to still exist somewhere in "The Scuttling Void". Apparently one of Namira's servants has a thing for that kind of "literature".

Ahdora

Ooooops. Ignore me.

tinythinker

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I've been thinking this since rumors of ES VI Argonia. What would Jeremy Soule do with the soundtrack? I think woodwind would suit Argonian culture but I think they're not the best instruments for them to play. Claws over fingerholes, Rigid mouths.

Maybe they have their own instruments that we just haven't seen yet.

Yeah, that's why I listed lots of stuff. Not to rip it off, but, joking aside, maybe some Argonians can actually make sounds like a didgeridoo. Or if not, maybe the rhythm or tempo or that general type of sound might be useful if not that same style of instrument or exact sound.

I definitely think that whatever the instrumentation, important themes would include:

*dreaming and other-worldliness, either in a spacy or even in a wistful, sad, winsome way, or haunting way (I'm thinking of some wordless vocals from Appalachian music but I can't find a video of the soft cries and wailing or the wistful cries and sighs for what is past; closest I could get was some violin music which could be merged with some of the other styles/instruments, maybe the stuff from the Near East above, to make it more lore appropriate sounding)

*a war theme that recalls and evokes a very ancient time when Argonians were feared and wielded dread weapons such as The Fangs of Sithis and the power of the Xanmeer at Hissmir

*simple tune that speaks of a sleepy village life, swimming and then sunning on a rock, the simple joys of nature and life.

But, I have no idea what that ought to or could sound like.

tinythinker

As a follow-up to my last comment, rather than editing it and making it even longer, I guess we are talking about three things:

1. "What would Argonian music actually sound like as performed by Argonians?"

This is where we get into whether Argonians could sing certain notes, make certain tones with their voices, play certain instruments, etc. Given how exotic or alien Argonian thoughts, language, and perspective are two men and mer, this is a particular challenge.

For example, the native Argonian language, Jel, is composed of hisses, clicks, croaks, and grunts that other races have an extraordinarily hard time understanding. Vocals for Argonian music would make for an interesting sound tack. "Hissss hissss click click croooooak hisss..." But maybe they do something akin to humming with their unique throat anatomy, making certain tonal sounds that can harmonize in mesmerizing ways.

Or maybe it is all instrumental (hey, I went out to scrape ice off a car and got the idea that you could get a sound vaguely similar to a didgeridoo by rubbing a stick across a corrugated surface). In which case, what kinds of instruments would we be discussing?

In any case, would the overall "sound" or "style" of Argonian music be like?

2. How close to the Argonian "sound" would a musical track need to be?

For example, what would the Argonian sound be like if it were covered in Cyrodiil, Skyrim, or Valenwood? Not all tracks would need to sound just like something you would hear if you were standing in Holstrom or Blackrose. Maybe they just kind of sound Argonian-like but not like Argonians would actually perform them. Hence a track might be about a theme, such as dreamscapes, the dangers of the jungle, etc, but still use conventional instruments and music making devices.

3. What should the musical themes be?

I listed a few in a comment above, but rather than a war theme, you could have a "danger/beware/fear" theme for encounters with villains and monstrous beasts.

OK, that's all I wanted to add/clarify at the moment.

Saddiq

Very late to the party, but I think water-based percussion would be a nice touch.

The first 20 or so seconds of this song just to give an audio sampling of what 'water-based percussion' even sounds like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeI32GjVrZs

And to play off the didjeridoo (sp apologies) running gag, I can see someone making an instrument with some mechanical manipulations of running water played percussively sounding interesting too.

Lots to play with there for a composer. If someone wrote me a check and didn't care about micromanaging me for Argonian-centralized music, I'd certainly try and beat other musicians to the punch on creating some new instruments/sounds.

dodgehopper_ESO

They might not be able to manipulate their mouth as well as a humanoid, but couldn't they plug a flute up against their nose? There are already a couple instruments like that in existence in the real world that I know of. When I see the artistry behind the Argonians, I can't say its 'correct' for them, but Incan flutes with some drums seem right to me. The didgeridoo seems like a really cool option though. The only thing is, Argonians supposedly live 2/3 of their lives underwater right? I seem to recall that deep in Black Marsh, most of the cities are actually Under the surface. If this is the case, perhaps their music is more whale-like?